Official BBR Tier List v6

[John12346]

Well, whoever did that, it might not have been the best move... -. -;

In either case, I'm referring to an official, site-sponsored poll, not some unofficial poll that can only be advertised in sigs...

 

[Seagull Joe]

The petition people are using for pro and anti ban are ridiculous. The petition itself allows you to vote as many times as one wants. I could easily make anti or pro ban have more votes in an hour. I'd fill them in with random names like malcolmM, pane, akira, souther, gunblade, captain L...etc...

A legit poll would be a better idea then an online petition that allows voters as many votes as possible.

 

[Steam]

Yes, let's base policies on those who interests it the most, then ignore the other party. Like I said, I want my bans to be legit.

@John: if that's the case, I apologise.

it's not our fault they don't vote...

if they don't care enough to vote then they risk dealing with the changes

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

@Seagull Why was it publicized to begin with?

Edit: Lol 6 members viewing thread but no one posting.

 

[BSP]

What if we made a group for the Vote? Like the 10th anniversary visitor thing.

It would take a while to get everyone who deserves to vote in, but at least we'd know the result would be accurate and free from trolls, alt accounts, etc.

 

[John12346]

Seagull the e-mails of all the voters are going to be checked. Duplicate or fishy looking e-mail addresses will be removed.

 

[Tesh]

I just realized that I signed the wrong petition.
Extreme sadness.

wuts this? pro ban finds the ballot confusing?

Pit did alright for once, BUT I get the feeling the Earth was the only one that beat any good players with Pit. Show me one vid of an American Pit beating someone good at Genesis and I might be impressed.

 

[kackamee]

The petition people are using for pro and anti ban are ridiculous. The petition itself allows you to vote as many times as one wants. I could easily make anti or pro ban have more votes in an hour. I'd fill them in with random names like malcolmM, pane, akira, souther, gunblade, captain L...etc...

A legit poll would be a better idea then an online petition that allows voters as many votes as possible.

I agree with Seagull as I feel the numbers could be a bit inaccurate; however I doubt it'd be enough to not see who the majority would actually be.

 

[M@v]

Seagull the e-mails of all the voters are going to be checked. Duplicate or fishy looking e-mail addresses will be removed.

Some people have multiple legit email addresses, like me.

I only made(and will only make) one petition, but I'm just pointing it out.

 

[AlanHaTe]

vote for what??

sorry but I missed it....

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

"you're =/= you are biggest idol"

Actually You're does = You are.

 

[Conviction]

Are you guys really arguing politics? Damn shut up LOL

Now and in history there has never been a "True Democracy", the closest has been the ones the Romans did and their **** was ****ed up too.

Look at this **** realistically, your form of "government" works in your country/region is because that's what the majority of people agree to. There are exceptions.

In conclusion no cares what the process is, it's the results. I don't care if you argue "I want the process" you just want the damn results that support your argument/opinion. In life people don't care how creative the process is, long as the job gets done that the majority wants, it works.

Move on from this dumb as hell discussion.

TL;DR - Shut up.

 

[-Jumpman-]

Are you guys really arguing politics? Damn shut up LOL

Now and in history there has never been a "True Democracy", the closest has been the ones the Romans did and their **** was ****ed up too.

Look at this **** realistically, your form of "government" works in your country/region is because that's what the majority of people agree to. There are exceptions.

In conclusion no cares what the process is, it's the results. I don't care if you argue "I want the process" you just want the damn results that support your argument/opinion. In life people don't care how creative the process is, long as the job gets done that the majority wants, it works.

Move on from this dumb as hell discussion.

TL;DR - Shut up.

Lol, the Greek had democracy, not the romans. Also, the Greek might have taken it from the persians etc.

The form of government doesn't work because people agree to it, as then every form could be considered democratic.

 

[Conviction]

LOL, opps mixed up my ancient civilizations.

If the majority isn't complaining then something is being done right. I said there are exceptions.

I summed the whole thing up saying, no cares about the process if the results come out the way they want it

 

[John12346]

Actually, I just want results. I would LIKE if they turned out in my favor, but as I've been saying for a while now, my ultimate goal has been to find out what the general consensus on the whole topic of MK's legality is, not to have the results that say that most of the community hates MK(although it is true...). If most people were against it, I'd be fine with that too.

But yeah, everything else you said is pretty much true

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

Well damn.

I'll stop trolling now.

IMO Falco will stay 4th best for the rest of the metagame.

 

[Conviction]

Well damn, can I go back to being black again? Or do people want to keep wanting to talk about politics?

 

[Deleted member]

Not gonna lie...white Iblis is intriguing.

 

[B.A.M.]

lol black people talk about real politics son. Get that ish outta here. and LOL at 'if the majority doesnt say anything then something must be done right. '

Seriously though i say in person poll managed by prominent TOs is the way to go. Online is no bueno.

 

[Conviction]

The majority should always speak up when something is being done wrong. They have the power due to numbers.

Yo stop being silly of stupid ****.

 

[OverLade]

If MK was banned, more people would use Diddy, meaning more people would actually know how to fight against Diddy. There aren't enough top Diddys for many people to understand what's gimmicky and what's not. Diddy barely beats any of the characters he beats. Mikehaze beating ADHD in crews wasn't just Wyatt being stupid, supposedly a few people really helped him work on the matchup the weekend before. Diddy doesn't **** Marth. Imo if Marth has good enough banana game, he wins the matchup (you outrange him, you just have to catch bananas when he throws them at you with fairs etc).

 

[Kuro~]

If MK was banned, more people would use Diddy, meaning more people would actually know how to fight against Diddy. There aren't enough top Diddys for many people to understand what's gimmicky and what's not. Diddy barely beats any of the characters he beats. Mikehaze beating ADHD in crews wasn't just Wyatt being stupid, supposedly a few people really helped him work on the matchup the weekend before. Diddy doesn't **** Marth. Imo if Marth has good enough banana game, he wins the matchup (you outrange him, you just have to catch bananas when he throws them at you with fairs etc).

QFTx1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

 

[Exdeath]

If MK was banned, more people would use Diddy, meaning more people would actually know how to fight against Diddy. There aren't enough top Diddys for many people to understand what's gimmicky and what's not. Diddy barely beats any of the characters he beats. Mikehaze beating ADHD in crews wasn't just Wyatt being stupid, supposedly a few people really helped him work on the matchup the weekend before. Diddy doesn't **** Marth. Imo if Marth has good enough banana game, he wins the matchup (you outrange him, you just have to catch bananas when he throws them at you with fairs etc).

There are several reasons for why Diddy does not lose to Marth off of the top of my head:

A) Diddy starts with the bananas

B) Diddy has multiple ways to out-range Marth

C) Aside from inherent disjoint, Marth doesn't have any particularly strong advantage over Diddy

D) Marth has ways to be initially safe (e.g. Fair on shield), but his actions after that tend to be very committal and require a much smaller window of error than Diddy. This is especially important because Diddy has options at neutral that allow him to react to Marth, whereas Marth is relatively limited to reads at neutral (unless Diddy makes a mistake).

E) Marth might have a slight nod to Diddy on ledge guarding, but Diddy's ledge trapping is clearly superior to Marth's in the MU.

I personally think that Diddy's lower tier MUs are largely skewed toward the lower tiers favor because of the difference in MU knowledge (apart from bananas). Diddy's Side-B/Fair/etc. alone are very powerful tools that most of the cast has great difficulty with. Even MK vs. Ike can even if MK wants to consistently try to challenge Ike's Fsmash with Neutral B.

 

[C.J.]

There are several reasons for why Diddy does not lose to Marth off of the top of my head:

Agreed, it is even.

A) Diddy starts with the bananas

K

B) Diddy has multiple ways to out-range Marth

Diddy has one way to outrange Marth, which is fair. Which we massively outdisjoint. Move is still hella gay

C) Aside from inherent disjoint, Marth doesn't have any particularly strong advantage over Diddy

We **** him on the ledge harder than every other character in the game... The only character who has ledge traps even in the same tier as Marth is MK and arguably sheik. But Marth definitely outdoes Sheik, and I believe has better ledge traps than MK. Although, nado is really good at covering a lot of options at once. Additionally, Marth has 2 glide toss lengths. The one everyone knows which is very long. The other one, is much shorter, and very similar to Diddy's GT length. Marth can use many of the same banana tricks as Diddy, and has better moves to use out of them. Additionally, just as Diddy has his sideB mix-ups w/ a banana in hand, Marth's ability to use DB while holding a banana is highly useful. Especially considering DB routinely beats (or at worst trades) w/ diddy's flip. Overall, I agree with this, except the addition of ledge ****. I will admit though, outside of tipper fsmash, Diddy does have a better punish game on stage. (Oh yeah, Diddy gets 0-deathed off a grab @ 0 )

D) Marth has ways to be initially safe (e.g. Fair on shield), but his actions after that tend to be very committal and require a much smaller window of error than Diddy. This is especially important because Diddy has options at neutral that allow him to react to Marth, whereas Marth is relatively limited to reads at neutral (unless Diddy makes a mistake).

Ehh, mostly agree.

E) Marth might have a slight nod to Diddy on ledge guarding, but Diddy's ledge trapping is clearly superior to Marth's in the MU.

Uhhh, no. Definitely not the case. Diddy's ledge traps are alright, but, nothing close to what Marth can do on the ledge.

I personally think that Diddy's lower tier MUs are largely skewed toward the lower tiers favor because of the difference in MU knowledge (apart from bananas). Diddy's Side-B/Fair/etc. alone are very powerful tools that most of the cast has great difficulty with. Even MK vs. Ike can even if MK wants to consistently try to challenge Ike's Fsmash with Neutral B.

I agree w/ the skewing. Although, your last sentence is ********, rofl. Ganon can fairly easily stutterstep fsmash MK's nado and diddy's side B (will trade iirc) if they both want to just spam them stupidly. Every character has an option to beat everything in the game if they just do it in a manner as ******** as MK just nadoing @ Ike when Ike can fsmash.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

The petition people are using for pro and anti ban are ridiculous. The petition itself allows you to vote as many times as one wants. I could easily make anti or pro ban have more votes in an hour. I'd fill them in with random names like malcolmM, pane, akira, souther, gunblade, captain L...etc...

A legit poll would be a better idea then an online petition that allows voters as many votes as possible.

An online poll where would reveal people making alt accounts, changing their IP address won't hide them either.

 

[OverLade]

Imo both characters have trouble getting back from the ledge against each other. Marth has bad options in general here, and Diddy gets completely outzoned by Marth.

Also, inherent disjoint is Marths greatest strength over Diddy. When you start playing Marth players that catch your bananas as they attack you shiz becomes really difficult to avoid being juggled. Also, once Marth gets Diddy in the air killing him is only a matter of percent, landing the attack isn't the hard part.

 

[OverLade]

Imo both characters have trouble getting back from the ledge against each other. Marth has bad options in general here, and Diddy gets completely outzoned by Marth.

Also, inherent disjoint is Marths greatest strength over Diddy. When you start playing Marth players that catch your bananas as they attack you shiz becomes really difficult to avoid being juggled. Also, once Marth gets Diddy in the air killing him is only a matter of percent, landing the attack isn't the hard part.

 

[Chuee]

If MK was banned, more people would use Diddy, meaning more people would actually know how to fight against Diddy. There aren't enough top Diddys for many people to understand what's gimmicky and what's not. Diddy barely beats any of the characters he beats. Mikehaze beating ADHD in crews wasn't just Wyatt being stupid, supposedly a few people really helped him work on the matchup the weekend before. Diddy doesn't **** Marth. Imo if Marth has good enough banana game, he wins the matchup (you outrange him, you just have to catch bananas when he throws them at you with fairs etc).

Didn't ADHD SD in that match after going for a stupidly risky spike?

 

[OverLade]

Yup, I'm not saying that Mike vs ADHD is even, I'm saying that Diddy vs Marth is even.

 

[Ussi]

Marth is lighter and his kill moves are unsafe and/or hard to precisely execute.

Diddy has glide toss > dsmash

Marth has his juggle game, but does it compare to Diddy's banana game? Probably not too far off but i'd rather be diddy than Marth.

But whateves, not like either side has a noticable advantage over each other.

 

[san.]

What characters have a viable standing grab of Diddy's banana? I know Ike's is useful because it has long range to catch and doubles for jab.

 

[BlueXenon]

I think Shiek/Zelda should be higher. With that combination, a player can start off as Shiek, who is much better, and later can switch to Zelda for an easier KO.

 

[Shaya]

Marth may be even or beat diddy.

But not at the moment.

It's not only just fair btw.
Ftilt (4 frames) and dtilt both outrange us.

His throws and good ground movement options combine towards something that statistically marth doesn't outspace consistently enough.

Also Zex came 5th at genesis. The guy did use Marth (not sure how much yet though)

 

[Tien2500]

I think Shiek/Zelda should be higher. With that combination, a player can start off as Shiek, who is much better, and later can switch to Zelda for an easier KO.

Except that Zelda isn't very good at getting in on other characters. Zelda has good KO moves, but that doesn't matter if you have no reliable setups/approaches.

 

[Chuee]

Zex used Marth to beat SK, not sure who else.

 

[Ussi]

I know Zex used Marth vs sk92's falco, dunno any other times he used Marth and won..

 

[Steam]

unless Zex used marth to beat tons of big names... marth underachieved for his tier position again. woo.

 

[Ussi]

I'd wait on the full results with character usage before ripping on characters

The bracket was stacked :| getting past 2 rounds is an achievement.

Just look at who were 33rd

 

[Steam]

I'd wait on the full results with character usage before ripping on characters

The bracket was stacked :| getting past 2 rounds is an achievement.

Just look at who were 33rd

some guy from Colorado got 33rd and colorado suuuuuucks

But still... characters who are supposedly much worse than marth placed better... so long as zex didn't go like all marth.

 

[Ishiey]

People said wait for Genesis.
We waited until Genesis.


Results were typical.
What now?

Wait for APEX, of course.

...

I'm a bit late here, but +1 for a more balanced metagame without MK. I don't know about how many losing MUs Diddy has, but his 0s and +1s are sure a lot more hopeful for his opponent than MK's 0s and +1s from what I can see >______> And then there's the part about how most people really suck at using items. With no MK comes more character representation from top tier. More Diddy means there's more emphasis on knowing how to use items if you want to succeed in tournament. Having better item control means one of Diddy's strongest tools will be easier for opposing players to deal with, etc... yeah. I don't think it'd make sense for people to push for a Diddy ban in a MK-banned metagame.