Coney
Smash Master
between DK and kirby imo
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Official BBR Tier List v6
- Thread starter Shaya
- Start date
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Jimmyfosho
Smash Hero
yea DDDs throws still do a lot of damage and he has a good grab range. Just because he wouldn't be able to dthrow CG doesn't mean that he still won't do damage with his throws lol
Back-Throw is SO GOOD.
MysteryRevengerson
IT'S A MYSTERY TO ALL
Dedede with the Smash64 status throw
Coney
Smash Master
ddd would probably play a lot less "stand still and punish bad spacing with grab" and more "constant pressure into check-mate situation for grab"
i.e. more like me!
i.e. more like me!
Dedede players should get used to the timing for "fastfall F-Air into the ground" and put that into their game. It's so unexpected and has nice range.
Coney
Smash Master
it's a really fun thing to do but you get serious landing lag after and is generally even less safe than his other unsafe offensive landing options (inhale or bair)
it looks like you're hitting a croquet ball or something though, great fun
it looks like you're hitting a croquet ball or something though, great fun
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
so i've recently seconded DDD and i just gotta say everyone here who thinks he is good soley because of his CG is ********. damn even i can tell how bull **** camping them with ftilt, dtilt and utilt is. seriously just using ftilt and dtilt and pivot utilt (to get that backward horizantal range) over and over based on what spacing you want really messes people up, and even if you cant cg them across the stage because you are near the edge, that bthrow though you know. seriously im so glad i seconded this character it's ridiculous.
edit:
also planking with DDD's retreating fair>approaching fair and mixing it up with uair and stuff is pretty good. it ain't anywhere on the same level planking with pit, but i seconded DDD so that i could have a character where i don't have to play AGAP in a lot of MUs because even i will admit that pit is best when played as gay as possible and that playing that gay takes it's toll on the player
edit:
also planking with DDD's retreating fair>approaching fair and mixing it up with uair and stuff is pretty good. it ain't anywhere on the same level planking with pit, but i seconded DDD so that i could have a character where i don't have to play AGAP in a lot of MUs because even i will admit that pit is best when played as gay as possible and that playing that gay takes it's toll on the player
Hippieslayer
Smash Ace
Maybe it's because I main Kirby who approaches from both air and ground, but those attacks really aren't menacing at all. They're staple moves, but come on, nothing special. Maybe it's because I co-main ZSS too (lol!), but I don't find DDD as menacing as many other characters in the game.
Maybe DDD just isn't a natural enemy for me so I don't see him as good, I dunno.
Who have you been playing against? Cuz I'm quite sure that if DDD tried planking with fair against me, I'd dair>footstool him all day with Kirby. Try mixing it up with uair, and I'll just wait it out until it's about to finish since you'll be aiming to regrab the ledge. Thanks for the free stock, man.
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
why in god's name would i use DDD against kirby when i main pit? i only use DDD for MUs i have trouble with. kirby aint no threat to pit, that MU is even except pit has better CP stages. sorry my DDD is for wario's mainly, then marth (based on the player), and then ill use DDD against other characters based on the stage (like if someone who knows pit doesn't like PS1 and cps me there, then ill just go DDD and not have to worry about being able to go under the stage because ill be controlling it).
sorry bro, he's just a secondary, don't expect me to have to much character specific input with him yet.
edit:
good luck trying to footstool dair my planking pit though bro
sorry bro, he's just a secondary, don't expect me to have to much character specific input with him yet.
edit:
good luck trying to footstool dair my planking pit though bro
Yeah, but apparently you have enough experience to say "everyone who thinks he's bad is ********". :|
He's bad in relation to the higher-tiered characters. So, nope, they're not ******** at all.
Is that a challenge? I'd gladly take it, I'm sure I can do it.edit:
good luck trying to footstool dair my planking pit though bro
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
he's good against wario, marth, snake, lucario. that MU spread alone makes him a good character. my point is everyone saying he is bad is dumb because any character that is POSITIVE against that many higher tier characters is a good character, the fact that he bodies s bunch of people below him also make him a good character. im not saying DDD is the be all end all super great awesome character, im saying he is a good character with a fairly solid MU spread and does good against some of the more commonly played high tier characters in todays metagame thus making him a perfectly good and solid character. the fact i main pit second DDD rocks because that leaves me with literally 1 bad MU (anyone wanna guess who it is?
I'll tear through that D-Air via SDI and give you a stern talking to.Is that a challenge? I'd gladly take it, I'm sure I can do it.
Squirtle, obviously.
Coney
Smash Master
oh it's cool, i can definitely understand where you're coming from! heck, before i played nick riddle i thought the MU was even
i'm the same as you, i don't really believe anything until i've experienced it
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
I think it's ludicrous for D3 to ever go as low as the mid tier threshold, he bodies way too many characters at those levels to be considered worst than that, so while he isn't exactly in the right "definition" for a high/mid-high tier character, he nonetheless fits there because of the quantitative amount of positive MUs (although balanced by the fact that they aren't as popular/important characters).
The problem is as the game has progressed, people have learned how to make their character's tools safer against one of the biggest tools he has, shieldgrab. Lots of low tiers still don't have the things to deal with this, but plenty of better characters do.
Bair is a great edgeguarder, but unfortunately because of improvements on how everyone's learned to DI more effectively, it rarely actually gimps unless they are mediocre characters to begin with.
His pokes and walls are important to mention aside from his CG, and I think it's worthwhile to mention that his MUs v. Falco and Pika have progressed to make it better for him (no longer clear-cut counters, but still hurt him hard), but over time his MUs with higher ups that he used to body now are more evenish nowadays, some even becoming favorable for them.
The problem is as the game has progressed, people have learned how to make their character's tools safer against one of the biggest tools he has, shieldgrab. Lots of low tiers still don't have the things to deal with this, but plenty of better characters do.
Bair is a great edgeguarder, but unfortunately because of improvements on how everyone's learned to DI more effectively, it rarely actually gimps unless they are mediocre characters to begin with.
His pokes and walls are important to mention aside from his CG, and I think it's worthwhile to mention that his MUs v. Falco and Pika have progressed to make it better for him (no longer clear-cut counters, but still hurt him hard), but over time his MUs with higher ups that he used to body now are more evenish nowadays, some even becoming favorable for them.
Doc King
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2010
- Messages
- 1,790
lol, you guys were just saying that Snake vs. D3 is even because Razor beat Atomsk.
Also, I never said that this matchup was good for D3. It is pretty poor for D3.
The middle tier somewhere.
How's a character who has the best chain grab, very high survivability, good edge guarding game, great pressure on Marth when he's off stage, and a slope infinite and **** cps (Which slope infinite is a big reason for **** cps) on Wario?
Also, that was a good statement about King Dedede right there. Also, if King Dedede becomes a good pocket character for certain mains like Pit's and Lucas's, then he could rise up on the tier list.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
I think him being only really viable w/ a secondary for his MUs is the main reason why he can't go any higher, he's strong still, but the fact that ICs and MK wreck pretty hard on him make him "unviable", which it's actually a good thing he does so well v. lower parts of the cast, b/c most chars that have those kinds of bad MUs tend to be a bit lower (like C/D lol). He's stuck in that B tier pretty much.
No, they were saying it was even and cited examples of the match-up when requested.
I think you forgot the end of that sentence, lol
Being a good secondary has, literally, no influence on where you are on the tier list... Tier list is how good a character is/how likely they are to win/etc in the metagame. Not how likely it is that someone will use him for one MU once and then not touch him again because he's a hard counter for a random character.
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
the real question is....
how in god's name did you figure out that is the bad MU?
how in god's name did you figure out that
is the bad MU?
Good luck with that, you can't talk in Brawl.
Either way, I'll just recover and harass you from under or behind while you're on the ledge.
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
mod plz. he said he was gonna harass reflex from behind
Hippieslayer
Smash Ace
Hey guys, don't you think DDD's reversed buffered pivot grab infinite on snake could possibly influence the matchup? ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cseHesGaSWQ ) I mean if that **** works and is doable then DDD should really undoubtedly have a pretty solid advantage over Snake : O
Hippieslayer
Smash Ace
Hehe, dat Nick Riddle, but you almost had him!oh it's cool, i can definitely understand where you're coming from! heck, before i played nick riddle i thought the MU was even
i'm the same as you, i don't really believe anything until i've experienced it
Since youre here, can I please ask you a question about DDD? :O Edit: wait maybe this is what PM is for, oh well.
Coney
Smash Master
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Last I heard about the buffered pivot grab CG, it was humanly impossible to do in normal speed. Has this changed?
Doc King
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2010
- Messages
- 1,790
There's an easier version of this that I found out in like early 2011. http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=176686
This has some pretty good usage on Wario because on most slopes, this technique works well.
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
it's not humanly impossible. 9b can do it. even though his reaction time is inhuman, he is still a human last time i heard.
Doc King
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2010
- Messages
- 1,790
Which one, the Dash Dance Pivot Chain Grab or the Buffered Pivot Chain Grab?
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
the one that doesnt require a slope
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
I agree, It actually is pretty good on some stages.
The problem with slope infinites is just that, it needs a slope. Last I heard, almost no stagelist has YI:M as legal, which is like the most consistent slope for that. It may work on Lylat, but at the same time that's not a consistent slope.
If it's true that the non-sloped one is humanly possible, that might change a few things, unless the characters in question are almost impossible to grab to begin w/.
also, I'm pretty sure ICs get best CG award
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
9B's DDD + ICs too good. It's funny that he's playing around w/ Lucario now, I wonder why
Maharba the Mystic
Smash Master
it's just what i heard from some guy when we were talkin japanese metagame so don't quote me on it. but honestly it doesn't look like it's impossible, buffer a dash towards them and then cancel it into a pivot grab. next time i have access to a wii ima try and master this. if it's doable, hello texas PR
Linkshot
Smash Hero
Throwing this out here right now:
Anything that requires running is not an infinite.
Why? Tripping.
Anything that requires running is not an infinite.
Why? Tripping.
Doc King
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2010
- Messages
- 1,790
No, it is an infinite that can be combo breaked. If you get lucky and not trip, you can infinite.
Hippieslayer
Smash Ace
Awesome thx man!well, i would say i DID have him, but he got himself
yeah sure, anytime
You play a pretty different DDD compared to say 9B (Yours being more offensive making active reads rather doing the passive aggressive pressure calm reading style that 9B), what's your reasoning behind choosing to play DDD the way you do and do you feel that it is the best way to play him? How much do you think offensiveness/defensiveness should wary according to matchup?
: O
Hippieslayer
Smash Ace
You can't not trip for an infinite amount of time man. If you disagree youre understanding of infinity in a mathematical context is wrong. Sadly I guess it's not an infinite then. Goddamn it would suck getting the timing down after like 500hours of practice only to trip after like 4 grabs when youre actually doing it. I imagine the suprise and the realization that you never tripped before because you were doing it in training mode would be enough to make you lose your **** and burn all the synapses in your related to performing the grab so that you consequently lose the game, and then fail at life. : /
Edit: sorry man all the weeds made my short term memory ****, but I will better myself, no more double posts
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