Official BBR Tier List v6

[ZeldaFanUltima]

First off, I would love to say that Nintendo discussed about Meta Knight, and said that in SSB4 he will be cut back.

Secondhand, I think this is an exceptional tier list, but I have a few placements that may make it sound better:

Meta Knight: Down 4
Purin: Down to Bottom
Luigi: Up 3
Mario: Right above Luigi
Link: Up 7
Peach: Up 1, Replace Rosalina's Face
Marth: 2nd to Top
Toon Link: 3rd to Top
Snake: Top
Diddy Kong: Down 4
Bowser: Up 2
Kirby: Down 2

I have thought of my own tier list, and I want your opinions about this:
As follows:

Diddy Kong
Snake
Marth
Meta Knight
Toon Link
Wario
King Dedede
Falco
Fox
Pikachu
Olimar
Link
ZSS
Lucario
G&W
Kirby
Peach
DK
ROB
Wolf
Kirby
Sonic
Ike
Pit
Sheik
Zelda/Sheik
Ness
Luigi
Charizard
Mario
Lucas
Squirtle
Yoshi
Bowser
Captain Falcon
Zelda
Samus
Ganondorf
Jigglypuff

No, this is not the tier list I am thinking you all should make, this is my opinion.

 

[Conviction]

Have a source about the mk thing?

 

[ZeldaFanUltima]

I am making Super Smash Status Cards, cards that reflect what the characters are.
I am starting with SSBB, then SSBM, SSB, and then SSB3D, and SSBWiiU.

And xIblisx, are you talking to me?

 

[Conviction]

Yeah, do you have a link where it shows they were talking about mk?

 

[ZeldaFanUltima]

No, but I will post the Wikipedia thing about it though!

"The balance of the character's power was previously only measured by Sakurai, but he will involve his staff more in this game to make sure they are balanced, citing Meta Knight as an example of a previously overpowered character." -Wikipedia

 

[John12346]

For the 12346th time, John - I do not ask for the removal of the timer. I'm not even making an argument [yet]. If you say that % is the most viable solution [which is still a blanket statement because you don't show how it's viable in the first place] then all you say is that the rule used in case of a timeout is inadequate at solving that issue - unless you can objectively and logically explain it as the "best" or even a "good" solution. Even if you could do that it doesn't necessarily call for the removal of the timer.

Well, you said timeouts are illegitimate in your previous argument, so I just kind of assumed you were against the timer's existence altogether, but since we're on the same page...

I'm just saying we should stick with percentage for now, since we don't really have any better means of determining the victor in the case of a timeout. I mean, you've seen some of the silly rules people have proposed already. Do I have to go and quote Jebus a few hundred thousand times?

If an alternate timeout rule is put forth, I'd be more than glad to discuss it, but until such a rule is put forth and determined to be better than our percentage rule, which I'm fully aware is flawed in some regard(because it's not a reliable factor of how close you are to dying relative to your opponent), I just say we stick with it for now, y'know? Perhaps increasing the timer would be a good place to start.

 

[ZeldaFanUltima]

Due to measurements made by Sakurai, Meta Knight should be taken off the tier lists, because MK is an overpowered character.

Where is respect for the four veterans, including Main characters Link (Primary) and Mario (2nd Primary)?

Snake is also a little overpowered too, don't ya people agree?

 

[Life]

No, but I will post the Wikipedia thing about it though!

"The balance of the character's power was previously only measured by Sakurai, but he will involve his staff more in this game to make sure they are balanced, citing Meta Knight as an example of a previously overpowered character." -Wikipedia

Does it have a citation? That'd probably be more helpful.

And MK on top is not going to change. Snake is fine, though, he gets juggled easily among other things. Just gotta play carefully around him.

 

[John12346]

In order to take a character off a tier list, we need to ban the character from tournament play altogether...

This isn't some pro-ban rally starter, I'm just saying that's how it's gotta work.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Increasing the timer is certainly a good way to start. But why end it here if we already understand that we're not capable of using a satisfactory time-out clause? If the secondary win-condition comes into effect after a time-out and we also know that all the solutions we have for this situation are sub-optimal then they clearly don't carry the same value. As a result time-outs should generally be discouraged - if a 9 or 10 minute timer is enough to achieve that then that's fine as well. But if not I don't see how saying "oh we have no better solution herpaderp" is going to lead to a constructive solution - perhaps something a pro-ban person could be in favor of? Not to accuse you personally here but I'm pretty sure that a lot of pro-ban people categorically refuse to accept the necessity of a fundamental change of their familiar rules just to have it their way.

 

[Thebest1pj]

BAN MK

BAN MK

BAN MK

BAN MK

BAN MK

BAN MK

BAN MK

BAN MK

BAN MK

mk is broken cf>ganon

the world tho

 

[John12346]

Well, I'm saying "there's no better alternative" right now because I legitimately can't think of anything that's just less arbitrary or stupid than our current percentage rule. If someone were to put forth such a solution and it turned out to be better than the percentage rule, I'd advocate for its legality.

Also yes, it would be in a pro-banner's best interest to keep the ruleset the way it is, because it would benefit MK the most and help fuel our arguments, but I'm all for changing the rules if it helps make the game better. I try to stay as unbiased as possible when I'm discussing different things, so don't worry about my pro-ban viewpoints getting in the way of this discussion.

With that said, shadow1pj might be on to something

 

[Conviction]

Ban MK

Chain combo

 

[ZeldaFanUltima]

I took the quote from Wikipedia page Untitled Super Smash Bros. sequel.

If measuring correctly, Meta Knight would be:

110% Atk. Speed
75% Air Speed
68% Clumsiness
80% Speed
50% Flexibility
26% RAKB
12% Final Smash<->Character Collision (One Dodge kills FS)
75% Knockback
85% Special Atk. Speed
15% Strength
20% Special Strength
10% Moon Walk (Yeah, Moon Walk's in Brawl too)

I judge characters by these stats, which gives Meta Knight the real ranking of:

C (20)
Sorry guys, but the tier list misled you all these years.

 

[Conviction]

Ultimate theorycrafter 22 is back in already...

Those stats are good and all but look at wins almost every tournament, look at who wins about 50% of the money, who has the best match up spread?

That's real.

We out.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

Well damn.

Tesh if you're still in here, GGs yesterday.

It's been a while since I've played but I still have some strength.

 

[Thebest1pj]

Well damn he gotcha good

 

[BSP]

Let's just go with another minute or two

 

[Judo777]

I took the quote from Wikipedia page Untitled Super Smash Bros. sequel.

If measuring correctly, Meta Knight would be:

110% Atk. Speed
75% Air Speed
68% Clumsiness
80% Speed
50% Flexibility
26% RAKB
12% Final Smash<->Character Collision (One Dodge kills FS)
75% Knockback
85% Special Atk. Speed
15% Strength
20% Special Strength
10% Moon Walk (Yeah, Moon Walk's in Brawl too)

I judge characters by these stats, which gives Meta Knight the real ranking of:

C (20)
Sorry guys, but the tier list misled you all these years.

MK has bad airspeed.

 

[Tesh]

wtf is clumsiness?

 

[Chuee]

First off, I would love to say that Nintendo discussed about Meta Knight, and said that in SSB4 he will be cut back.

Secondhand, I think this is an exceptional tier list, but I have a few placements that may make it sound better:

Meta Knight: Down 4
Purin: Down to Bottom
Luigi: Up 3
Mario: Right above Luigi
Link: Up 7
Peach: Up 1, Replace Rosalina's Face
Marth: 2nd to Top
Toon Link: 3rd to Top
Snake: Top
Diddy Kong: Down 4
Bowser: Up 2
Kirby: Down 2

I have thought of my own tier list, and I want your opinions about this:
As follows:

Diddy Kong
Snake
Marth
Meta Knight
Toon Link
Wario
King Dedede
Falco
Fox
Pikachu
Olimar
Link
ZSS
Lucario
G&W
Kirby
Peach
DK
ROB
Wolf
Kirby
Sonic
Ike
Pit
Sheik
Zelda/Sheik
Ness
Luigi
Charizard
Mario
Lucas
Squirtle
Yoshi
Bowser
Captain Falcon
Zelda
Samus
Ganondorf
Jigglypuff

No, this is not the tier list I am thinking you all should make, this is my opinion.

MK not first?
Bad tier list.

 

[Conviction]

Lol I never read his post. Wow it looks funnier than I thought

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

Well damn.

Ultima is a better troll than I am.

 

[Conviction]

You are a troll?

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

What's a troll?

 

[Conviction]

A bridge dweller

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

I dwell under bridges of clouds.

 

[Chuee]

I dwell under bridges of decomposed dead animals.

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

3 months ban on metaknight...?

 

[Shaya]

Enough.

This isn't a "ban MK" thread. I don't want to go HARD on people even discussing him as much as you guys are now.

The people who posted in the last page with spam (you should know who you are) should take that as a warning.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I second it.

 

[Tesh]

you anti spams are no better than the anti bans

 

[Tien2500]

Tesh, quick question. Is your text invisible to everyone, or does my CPU just have strange settings?

 

[vVv Rapture]

His text matches the default background on the website. Anyone with that skin (like me and most others) can't see the text without dragging the mouse over it.

It's ****ing annoying.

 

[Tesh]

no1 force u 2 use vibrant

 

[BSP]

Again, classic blue takes care of that

 

[Life]

I had actual invisible text for a while on all backgrounds because I'm cooler than Tesh.

Ontopic, so what do we think about midtier?

 

[Odinyte]

So sad no one can play Zelda properly in these tournaments.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

Everyone character in mid-tier would be better with one global change.

More on that later.

EDIT: @Odinyte, a lot of people used Zelda well. Last year or so she was mid-tier, but she just sucks.

Falco was countered by Zelda, but now the shoe is on the other foot since the Falcos understand the game.

 

[BSP]

We should talk about Kirby.

Nealy no rep, but decent (?) tools?