Official BBR Tier List v6

[-LzR-]

Yeah yeah Ivysaur cannot recover, but it's not like she (yes, she, just shut up) is going to just stand there and take a fire attack in their face. They can wall you with bairs and stuff for some time. Her awful mobility is the worst thing imo.
But yeah, here grabs are legit, throw opponent off the stage, Charizard mode on.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I never said that it would take a fire attack to the face. Ivy's still pretty light, the extra 10% from fire attacks are negligible anyway.

Just... literally grab it and chuck it off and... either edgeguard or grab the ledge depending on what the situation calls for.

Ivy's pivot grab *****.

Edit:

I think Sakurai forgot the super effective system existed when he gave fire attacks to pretty much everyone in the game and only water type attacks to Squirtle (FLUDD counts as a WEAPON iirc. WTF?), and grass type attacks to Ivysaur.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Ivy isnt light... She's above average in weight, 15th or so heaviest if I recall, im too lazy too look up exactly where she ranks in. But 15th out of almost 40 imo isnt light.

 

[Ghostbone]

The only reason I think she's actually decent is cuz she has pretty nice range on her aerials and tilts, and actually has decent kill power.

Like her back-air, which does like 4%? lol
She has good kill power...but her moves with good kill power don't exactly come out fast.

She's worse than Ganon and Popo.

 

[-LzR-]

Lol no. Her fsmash is strong and reaches farther than most fsmash in the game. A pretty good OoS option to me.

 

[Ghostbone]

What's the frame data for it? My impression is that it's like as slow as Ganon's, though I might be remembering incorrectly.

 

[-LzR-]

Doesn't matter if it's slow when it hits far like a truck.

And also, just compare Sopo and Ganon to Ivy.
They all have similarly crappy recoveries, only Ivy has safe spacing moves and a way to actually land a grab or attack a shield without getting owned.

 

[Ghostbone]

Doesn't matter if it's slow when it hits far like a truck.

Sounds like it's like Ganon's but worse.

And also, just compare Sopo and Ganon to Ivy.
They all have similarly crappy recoveries, only Ivy has safe spacing moves and a way to actually land a grab or attack a shield without getting owned.

So do Sopo and Ganon.

And lol at Ivy being able to land a grab without getting owned.
Yep, he/she's definitely the one without a massively laggy tether grab.

 

[-LzR-]

Laggy? That's like the least laggy tether there is. Try pivotgrab.
Also her fsmash is much better than Ganons, much farther reach and speed.
Also, you forgot the part where Sopo and Ganon sooo crappy grabs.

 

[Ghostbone]

Pivot grab isn't that amazing.

Also Ganon's f-smash actually has massive range, more than you would think.

Ganon's grab is crappy sure (not his command grab though), Popo's is bad as well I suppose, but at least they can grab stuff OoS depending on what it is.

 

[-LzR-]

No, they can't grab anything that matters OoS.

 

[Ghostbone]

Fine so none of them can, I guess they're even.

 

[-LzR-]

I can't really understand how you can even compare Ivy to Sopo and Ganondorf.
The recovery doesn't matter in this case, none of those should ever recover successfully.
Ganondorf can't land like anything without a real hard read or some crazy tricks. Sopo is sad, can't kill, can't do anything. His aerials suck, his groundgame sucks, his recovery sucks, his specials suck.
Ivy has bulletseed. It's like better than any special Sopo or Ganon can use.
Ivysaur actually has a legit upB which actually is a killmove.
Pretty much everything about Ivy is better than Ganon or Sopo. I don't get your point.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Nevermind, wrong thread, sorry. Igonre this.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Ivy isnt light... She's above average in weight, 15th or so heaviest if I recall, im too lazy too look up exactly where she ranks in. But 15th out of almost 40 imo isnt light.

Oh wao.

Oh well, still doesn't take much to get it offstage. *shrugs*

She's worse than Ganon and Popo.

wtf am i redding?

What's the frame data for it? My impression is that it's like as slow as Ganon's, though I might be remembering incorrectly.

Hits on frame 17.

And lol at Ivy being able to land a grab without getting owned.
Yep, he/she's definitely the one without a massively laggy tether grab.

wtf am i reading?

Pivot grab isn't that amazing.

WTF AM I REDDING?!

I can't really understand how you can even compare Ivy to Sopo and Ganondorf.
The recovery doesn't matter in this case, none of those should ever recover successfully.
Ganondorf can't land like anything without a real hard read or some crazy tricks. Sopo is sad, can't kill, can't do anything. His aerials suck, his groundgame sucks, his recovery sucks, his specials suck.
Ivy has bulletseed. It's like better than any special Sopo or Ganon can use.
Ivysaur actually has a legit upB which actually is a killmove.
Pretty much everything about Ivy is better than Ganon or Sopo. I don't get your point.

Only a couple of minor nitpicks with this, namely that Sopo can in very rare circumstances kill quicker by being solo, and that Ivy's up b is horrible.


Basically Ivy isn't as bad as Ganon unless it's fatigued, in which it's probably equally as bad.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Ivy's Up B is a decent kill move, especially cuz utilt puts them in a good position for it and nair > utilt works well.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

utilt will never put them into a position to be up b'd.

Never, ever, ever, ever, EVER, EVER.

Edit: And people would just air dodge the up b.

Or simply DI away.

 

[Dre89]

You guys didn't mention Ivy's nair, which is probably her best move. It's quick, leads into things like bullet seed, fsmash, aerials and grab, and can spike if reversed. It has poor range but good priority.

She can also ko with fair and uair. Fair has the vertical range of a uair, and uair can be ffd if you want land it from a more horizontal angle.

Fsmash isn't that good on paper but it lands in practice. Usmash is hard to set up, but it can punish dodges. Leaf to dash grab conditions spotdodge, and grounded vine whip can condition airdodges, which can be set up by down throw.

But really, Squirtle shouldn't be that good a character, because you can just stall him out until he fatigues.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Aero, I dont mean an EXACT position, I mean in a position in which they need to watch for it. Once they hit 80% or so, it sends them high enough to Up B's range, I never said it was a combo or anything lol.

@Dre: I mentioned nair :3c

 

[infiniteV115]

I think Sakurai forgot the super effective system existed when he gave fire attacks to pretty much everyone in the game and only water type attacks to Squirtle (FLUDD counts as a WEAPON iirc. WTF?), and grass type attacks to Ivysaur.

Don't electric attacks also count? Or am I mistaken?

 

[SFA Smiley]

Not saying it's guaranteed that Ivy isn't Ganon terrible but you should definitely use it a bit before making that assumption. Especially when it's fatigued, I could seriously be wrong but when you actually try to use some of it's moves you just realize how bad it is. Terrible projectile, no mobility, everything minus Nair and Bair are so laggy it's just stupid how sluggish Ivy is. I find that all I do is spam Bair, use nair sometimes and try to and bullet seed, which isn't to bad but it's so punishable when you miss and Ivy just can't let itself be thrown offstage, it's sorta like wolf after Up-b in that it's not going anywhere. Not because Ivy can't move back and forth, but because it's aerial mobility is so bad =/

 

[SFA Smiley]

Don't electric attacks also count? Or am I mistaken?

Naw. Everyone's fire attacks **** up Ivysaur but only Squirtle's Water attacks have that effect and Ivysaur is the only character with spore/grass type attacks so it barely affects charizard.

Falcon Punch on Ivy

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Funnily enough, Bullet Seed works amazingly on Charizard thanks to the super effective system.

>Charizard is 4x resistant to bullet seed in the games
>Brawl makes him take >50% damage due to knockback being reduced by 10% and because he's such a huge target

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f3F8sKP2Yg&NR=1&feature=endscreen

 

[da K.I.D.]

popos f smash is better than ivysaurs.

popos ground game is better than ivysaurs as long as the opponent is at low percents.

ivysaur is way too light for her recovery to be as bad as it is. ganon and links poor recoveries are mitigated by the fact that they are in the heaviest weight class in the game. ivysaur doesnt have that. shes just slightly above average which isnt good enough.

ivysaur is definitely on the same level of suck as those 2. Her overall mobility might be the absolute worst in the game. which makes all of her other solid attributes much worse.

 

[Orion*]

Honestly? I don't pay much attention to the top 10.

/doesnt pay attention to **** that matters

Yes, I asked because I honestly don't know. I don't have every result memorized. If they have then obviously one of my points is wrong and I will admit as much.

fair nuff

If I'm salty, you're a salt mine dude.

i know, i try to stay away from it when i cook

There is thing little thing called "debating" you may want to look into. It's when two or more people present their arguments, and then go back and forth attacking the other side's argument (but not the person actually debating), more times then not neither side change their stance. It happens to be something I enjoy doing every now and then.

Sounds like pointless dribble

Facts I'm not ignoring. Anther is still active, I did not know that before because like I said: I don't have every result memorized. Nor am I going to look up every single tournament for the last few months before I take a stab at something.

In other words your opinions arent researched LOOOL
anyways ill look into where you randomly change topic

However, how you should look at characters when it comes to tier lists are largely opinion based. For example: do you look at the whole world, or just your continent? Both sides of that have their arguments, but you can't objectively say one side is "factually" more correct than the other. What I'm arguing over right now is simply another opinion based thing: what is the cut-off for a) outlier results and b) mains that were influential but no longer play. There is no "factual" way to draw a line in the sand and go "Here is the cut-off point exactly".

Yes but from a practical point of view since you realize this... wouldn't it make sense to look at all the points of view than just your own... then when you want to talk about something specific you have more of a basis of what you're actually talking about. in other words... the big picture

it's like trying to talk about foreign policy and then basing everything off of nevadas state fire laws. cool it's your opinion to do that, and you can argue based off of something specific but you look ********.

So no, generally speaking I don't "argue about things I have no knowledge about"

but you just posted an argument tier wise about a character with results you dont understand or know about >_>

4 others

sweet you posted it for me

Imo Luigi should be the second to last mid tier char right above Mario (yes, I said Mario. Imo, he has potential to be in mid with MK gone).

i do think mario has a lot of potential but i dont think mk being gone is somehow going to vastly open up those options. he still has *** matchups with a lot of high tier, i don't think he has any unreasonably bad matchups even with MK legal but for him to legit place in any tournament setting is a stretch at best.

----
as for ivy/sopo

Me and mr.r trolled some scrubs in bracket with my ivy and his falcon in a 2v1. bullet seed -> falcon dair -> follow DI / tech chase on bf platform -> bullet seed -> dair loop LMAO. Got like 200% in like 5 seconds the guys mind was blown XDDD

as for sopo. sopo -> most low tiers bro. Just with his ground options / uair and low % cg he's better than a lot LOL

 

[Doc King]

Laggy? That's like the least laggy tether there is. Try pivotgrab.
Also her fsmash is much better than Ganons, much farther reach and speed.
Also, you forgot the part where Sopo and Ganon sooo crappy grabs.

You can't be serious about sopo. sopo can fast fallers with his d throw chaingrab.

Sopo>Ganon>Ivysaur

 

[infiniteV115]

I agree with Doc King.

Sopo>Ganon>Ivysaur>DDD

 

[-LzR-]

You can't deny Sopos grab sucks. His Dthrow is pretty good though. Totally better than D3s. D3 sucks.

 

[Doc King]

I agree with Doc King.

Sopo>Ganon>Ivysaur>DDD>Zero Suit Samus

Fixed for ya!

You can't deny Sopos grab sucks. His Dthrow is pretty good though. Totally better than D3s. D3 sucks.

D3's D throw>Other d throws. He can infinite Mario, Luigi, Bowser, DK, Yoshi, and Samus with this.

 

[infiniteV115]

Sopo>Ganon>Ivysaur>DDD>ZSS>Sopo = Meta Knight/0

wut nao biatch

 

[-LzR-]

Sopo>Ganon>Ivysaur>DDD>ZSS>Sopo = Doc Kings arguments*1

 

[Chuee]

every fighting game character in history > D3 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doc King

 

[Gardex]

Bullet seed > usmash is the best zero-death in the game.

THE BEST

 

[-LzR-]

Only if it's RCOlagcanceledintoslopeBulletseed > Usmash

 

[Doc King]

D3>Brawl>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chuee and LzR

 

[-LzR-]

Who is this LzR guy?

 

[Z'zgashi]

ivysaur is definitely on the same level of suck as those 2. Her overall mobility might be the absolute worst in the game. which makes all of her other solid attributes much worse.

D3, Luigi, then Ganon have worse overall mobility, but she's 4th.

Ivy actually isnt THAT slow when it comes to running speed, she's pretty average, it's just her air speed it downright terrible.

 

[Ghostbone]

Luigi has down-b, Ganon has side-b and down-b, but D3 probably has worse mobility horizontally (not that it matters with the amount of space he controls).

 

[Z'zgashi]

Well Ivy has running speed equal to Mario, so it's not like she's slow on the ground or anything, she's just not fast. The main problem is that most of her attacks worth doing are her aerials and her air speed is complete butt.

 

[Chuee]

D3, Luigi, then Ganon have worse overall mobility, but she's 4th.

Ivy actually isnt THAT slow when it comes to running speed, she's pretty average, it's just her air speed it downright terrible.

No Zelda??