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Official BBR Tier List v5

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-LzR-

Smash Hero
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MK gliding back to the stage is asking to get ***** by Marth. Using it onstage is different.
 

Judo777

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MK gliding back to the stage is asking to get ***** by Marth. Using it onstage is different.
The biggest issue with glide attack is that the hitbox also covers MK's whole body just about and it clanks with everything. it does like 12% or something silly so you have to dish out like 21% to beat it. And if he does it low to the ground it will auto cancel on the ground and then well crap MK's faster than you isn't he......
 

Mr-R

Smash Champion
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Rule Number 1: Yika is always right, if you see someone disagreeing with Yika then the other one is with a success rate of 99% wrong.
This coming from the guy that said marths GR spike on mk isn't guarenteed....





:awesome:
 

C.J.

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If you grab him SUPER close to the ledge it's not possible either...

The point was frame wise it is possible. Stfu and move on.
 

DMG

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Slippi.gg
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It's also not possible if you're playing Melee
 

Spelt

BRoomer
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It's not possible if you're not playing marth, or if you run the opposite way they get GR'd, or the opponent isn't meta knight, or if someone comes up and steals the controller out of your hands.



Actually i lied it is possible in the last situation but the person who stole the controller would now have to do it.
cooperative GR dairing.
 

Spelt

BRoomer
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That's just an act to ward off suspicion.

He doesn't want to reveal his true strength.
 

TheReflexWonder

Wonderful!
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If anything, their F-Tilts are both really good, and both have U-Air juggles work for long periods of time. :)
 

Spelt

BRoomer
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And they both have excellent aerial mobility during their neutral b's.
 

Maharba the Mystic

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oh. i was told he didn't have any aerial lag so i've been under the impression he doesn't. tbh i've not played a squirtle ever nor taken the time to look it up personally. ill research pk trainer when i hear reflex is coming to texas
 

TheReflexWonder

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But...he doesn't play PT anymore.
I do, but only for certain matchups. I've become more excited about the character lately, though, so, he could very well see more use than he currently does.

B-Air and F-Air have only a slight amount of landing lag. N-Air autocancels after a certain point, I believe. U-Air is fast enough where you shouldn't get landing lag if you aren't using it while falling and right next to the ground, and a full-hop D-Air actually gives you enough time to throw out a second aerial before you land, but, if you don't use them as I described, U-Air and D-Air have a lot of landing lag, yeah.

Squirtle's aerials are rather great overall. U-Air is certainly one of the best in the game--It comboes into itself until high percents, and the entire animation only takes 24 frames, making it excellent for momentum canceling and frame traps on falling characters. F-Air and B-Air are fast, have little lag, and deal decent damage. D-Air pokes shields, has nice knockback, and it sends people outward, making it a nice option for gimps, and, like I said earlier, full-hop immediate D-Air is quite safe due to a potential F-Air/B-Air at the end. Autocancel N-Air allows for a jab to keep yourself safe afterward, and since Squirtle shakes back and forth during the animation, it's hard to tell whether or not he's moving toward you.
 

OverLade

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In the case of RedHalberd's example, you can instantly jump out of shield without suffering shield drop frames and buffer a down air during the jump, so it is possible (and quite easy) to perform that action out of shield with frame perfection. If it was an up air, you would have to perform the up air instantly after jump cancel frames to buffer it, which is harder but possible.

Feel free to correct any misinformation but I'm like 99% sure this is how it works.
Red Halberd is well-acquainted with buffering and understands its common uses. I think that there is a misunderstanding of some sort. Also, I believe that it is possible to buffer OoS.
This isn't a matter of what's frame possible, it's a matter of how you're actually going to react in a match.

It's far more efficient to tell your brain to react in the order of (short hop -> dair -> left/right on control stick) than to aim to just buffer everything because the reality is people make technical errors from trying to input things too quickly.

Thing about it, there's a limit to how fast you press buttons. Like when you're gliding with MK, you don't just alternate between mashing Up and Down as fast as possible right? You do this because you have to visually confirm on screen that MK actually accepted your first order. This is a slightly extreme comparison, but it explains why you arent actually gonna be buffering these kind of things mid match unless your natural reaction time is godlike. It's far more safe to confirm at least the short hop for punishing with a short hop, meaning you won't be dairing immediately.

Anyway the main reason for needing to confirm the short hop is that your fingers wont' necessarily be at a neutral position when you realize you should short hop dair in situation x or w/e. So if you're already tilting the control stick, you have to slightly reset yourself to neutral before you input the jump (especially if you're doing it out of shield).

Anyway I dont wanna turn this into something major, but it's just these things why inputting MKs Dsmash framewise will in an actual match be a lot faster than foxes short hop dair. Unless you're dropping your shield there's literally no reactionary impediment to doing just that, Dsmashing.
 

rPSIvysaur

[ɑɹsaɪ]
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I've seen Smash Lab members disagree a couple times on the invincibility frames of Wolf's shine, so yeah...not always the case.
IIRC all the labbers had the same answer and it was some other people who were wrong at that time
 
D

Deleted member

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I'm pretty sure it was two light blue names disagreeing. Maybe Ish was also a part of that discussion amongst the disagreement.

I do remember Yika corrected everyone, though, so I'll just believe what he says. xD
 
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