Official BBR Tier List v5

[Steam]

You know, while its debatable exactly where Pit falls on the tier list, it seems silly to put him in D tier when he goes even/beats everyone else in C... Do you guys honestly feel that there is a gap large enough between him and other C tier characters to warrant that drop?

just because you beat C tier doesn't mean you're better than them if you get **** on by A tier.

@Spelt- they still belong in ****** tier

@Pj- Trela cheats and uses an X speed at the start of the match obv.

 

[Lenus Altair]

just because you beat C tier doesn't mean you're better than them if you get **** on by A tier.

That might be valid if it weren't true for everyone else in C tier. Besides, that's an exaggeration.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Jerm also beat Choice in tourney at Mlg Dallas lmao. Jerm has beaten me, Choice, and lost to Holms.

 

[Steam]

That might be valid if it weren't true for everyone else in C tier. Besides, that's an exaggeration.

I'm just saying pit's matchups in C tier are a bit irrelvant, even though he belongs there lol.

 

[san.]

Loooool. I think he's top ten weight? Where is M2k's weight data thingy?

At high levels, Sheik's normal ability to make Wolf's die from Ftil to Usmash is significantly harder because they know how to space and camp. Sheik can't do the same as good as Wolf. If she deals damage to him without Ftilt then she should be scared because a 60-70 she can't even lock him anymore. At this point, she has to find a way to kill a character in top ten weight without guaranteed kill ways and shine can hinder her Usmash baiting.

That's where.

About MK vs Wolf, where are the top level matches we could see that represent the MU?

 

[Thebest1pj]

Jerm also beat Choice in tourney at Mlg Dallas lmao. Jerm has beaten me, Choice, and lost to Holms.

He went falco 2 out of the 3 games.

 

[Conviction]

Lol steam just got real . Also im sure fox,wolf,tl, and dont dk get ***** by all of a and b tier.

Valid point there steam

 

[Steam]

Lol steam just got real . Also im sure fox,wolf,tl, and dk get ***** by all of a and b tier.

Valid point there steam

not this **** again.

all I was doing was pointing out why saying that he beats C tier is not a very valid point. because S A and B are more important. I've already said pit belongs in C tier... lol

 

[MJG]

Jerm beat me in a MM 2-1 at P5. It could be that Holms knows the matchup better then I do, which is why he won. I don't play too many toon links, but I have a general idea of how to play the matchup. I lost to Psp in a set on Wi-Fi though =/.

Maybe. That could be. Idk how he learned the MU though since he is 3 hours away from me.

Jerm also beat Choice in tourney at Mlg Dallas lmao. Jerm has beaten me, Choice, and lost to Holms.

Ok? Whats your point? Choice used falco vs jerm as well and I don't even think there are any TLs in CA.

I could use the same example. I beat MVD and Fatal @ MLG Dallas. That MU is definitely in snakes favor, and it IS winnable, but it doesn't matter since I don't think MVD really plays with a TL (He did beat Jerm @ Pound in pools but im not sure how hard he was trying) and TL is Fatal's kryptonite but then I MM'd Razer at the same tournament and lost to him.

Regardless, I don't really care about MU ratios. I just try to limit my opponents options and exploit their weaknesses with my strengths

 

[Conviction]

Fffffffffuuuu typo. I was Agreeing with you steam. I meant to say they dont get ***** in comparison to pit. Stupid phone

 

[Thebest1pj]

steam said

"not this ****** again"

exposed

 

[Conviction]

***** chill he said **** looool

 

[Thebest1pj]

 

[Conviction]

 

[Thebest1pj]

Minnesota y

 

[Steam]

o lol you guys.

but pit does do better against high tiers than some of the people you might call C tier. not like wolf or fox tho.

 

[napZzz]

Minnesota y

yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

 

[Eddie G]

Wow all of the talk that I've seen so far on Peach and her matchups really emphasize some of the ignorance in the bulk of the community. At least PJ posted sensibly (and through his own experience, not just number crunching). Peach is even with toon link, and LOL she does not lose to GnW. She has the tools to box against GnW's linear arsenal rather well, and I think Praxis would be better able to explain the matchup in detail than I could on this phone at the moment.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Any tier list that doesn't have Fox and Wolf side by side is wrong.

I agree, and I feel the same about sonic, and ike.

About MK vs Wolf, where are the top level matches we could see that represent the MU?

lol
anti vs m2k.

also, rofl at what sans person experience matchup chart for ike would look like.

+2 with falco.
even with mk.
+1 with olimar
even with DDD
+3 with pikachu
+1-2 with sonic
+1 with snake
+ fsmash with diddy. gnes namesearch
+3 with dk
+2 with Ics
+1 with wario.
even with pit.
+2 with fox

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Wow all of the talk that I've seen so far on Peach and her matchups really emphasize some of the ignorance in the bulk of the community. At least PJ posted sensibly (and through his own experience, not just number crunching). Peach is even with toon link, and LOL she does not lose to GnW. She has the tools to box against GnW's linear arsenal rather well, and I think Praxis would be better able to explain the matchup in detail than I could on this phone at the moment.

Even with all of Praxis knowledge, Peach still loses to G&W. I'm pretty sure he agrees. She's too floaty and get uair'd all day into some nair/fair string...it's so annoying >_<. It's a 45:55 or 40/60 matchup. G&W can also just chill by the ledge, and dair when she's recovering w/ umbrealla...so annoying!

Peach is mid tierish, but Wolf is still better :0 --high tier(IMO)

@ San : high level Wolf vs MK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEGM4kcLCIA

& Pit doesn't get wrecked by A tier. He's definitely disadvantaged vs MK, but the rest or doable(Snake, Falco, Diddy, Marth, Wario). He only has a slight disadvantage to even matchups with them.

 

[Ussi]

@Kid

Ike MU +4

Don't forget that one

 

[san.]

Wow all of the talk that I've seen so far on Peach and her matchups really emphasize some of the ignorance in the bulk of the community.

That is why I find it more useful to look past the numbers and have more enjoyment in the actual discussion.

Found like at least 3-5 new useful things for Ike today.

lol you guys are funny.

 

[stingers]

how do u find that many useful things in 1 day.
o.O

 

[Conviction]

It must be in the equation

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

That is why I find it more useful to look past the numbers and have more enjoyment in the actual discussion.

Found like at least 3-5 new useful things for Ike today.

lol you guys are funny.

Your Wolf vid is on the previous page.

how do u find that many useful things in 1 day.
o.O

I was wondering the same thing @_@...how do you do it? lol

 

[Conviction]

The Reverse Sympathy Equation.

 

[Lenus Altair]

Lol steam just got real . Also im sure fox,wolf,tl, and dont dk get ***** by all of a and b tier.

Valid point there steam

You don't know much about how Pit compares matchup wize do you?

not this **** again.

all I was doing was pointing out why saying that he beats C tier is not a very valid point. because S A and B are more important. I've already said pit belongs in C tier... lol

I understand your point and I agree SAB tiers are more important, however when pit goes even or better with everyone C tier down that in itself pretty much validates C tier. I am glad we agree that Pit is at least a C tier character and has matchups with SAB tier comparable to others in C tiers.

Also out of curiosity are there any characters on the tier list that have all even/positive matchups with the characters directly on the tier above yet are still considered worse to the point of having that tier difference?

 

[Steam]

You don't know much about how Pit compares matchup wize do you?



I understand your point and I agree SAB tiers are more important, however when pit goes even or better with everyone C tier down that in itself pretty much validates C tier. I am glad we agree that Pit is at least a C tier character and has matchups with SAB tier comparable to others in C tiers.

Also out of curiosity are there any characters on the tier list that have all even/positive matchups with the characters directly on the tier above yet are still considered worse to the point of having that tier difference?

no but D3 could be in a position like that soon. He's not going up anytime soon.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

The Reverse Sympathy Equation.

Bingo. And it's all really interesting stuff as well, such as Ike's Jab 2 having more range than Snake Ftilt (I'm assuming just Ftilt1, not Ftilt1+2 combo). Even an outside possibility of QD having borderline usable moments!

Too bad the equation only works with Ike eh?

 

[Conviction]

No I don't lol and didn't challenge pits mus so what are you talking about, but it doesn't matter when you start spouting stuff you don't know because you must not know characters in the c tier mus. As I said before the characters I listed get don't get completely ***** by a tier and b tier. Also you conceded the fact that pit has that problem. So I'm going off what you said, you are the pit main. Lol

Edit: Niddo, the foxes are about to start talking on skype weekly, our goal is to find the square root of Fox. Once we figure that out we will have our own equation

 

[Lenus Altair]

Fffffffffuuuu typo. I was Agreeing with you steam. I meant to say they dont get ***** in comparison to pit. Stupid phone

No I don't lol and didn't challenge pits mus so what are you talking about, but it doesn't matter when you start spouting stuff you don't know because you must not know characters in the c tier mus. As I said before the characters I listed get don't get completely ***** by a tier and b tier. Also you conceded the fact that pit has that problem. So I'm going off what you said, you are the pit main. Lol

Kinda looks like you did challenge Pits match ups by comparing them to other characters when you just admitted you don't know about him. Also where did I conceded that Pit has a problem with A and B tier...

...cause I didn't.

 

[da K.I.D.]

is that why MK is the best in the game?

cus I think he has one of those equations. It has something to do with victory, and his destiny.

 

[Conviction]

its the troll equation. The ultimate one.



Edit: I can't quote and do all that magical stuff off my phone, but go back to your post, when you say "that would be a valid point if it apply to c tier as well" or something like that lol

 

[Thebest1pj]

If it isn't wolf or peach mains its always the pit mains.

 

[Conviction]

Lol, Biglou had this really funny thing he told me. He said all the mid tiers are up tight saying their character is better but the luigi boards are like whatever, we know our character sucks.

 

[Lenus Altair]

Except afterward I said it was an exaggeration, especially since unlike the characters you argued Iblis, Pit has No -3s or greater. In fact, at a glance Pit, Peach, and TL would appear to have better matchups then everyone else in C. What makes Pit hard to play as isn't his matchups in A or B tiers, its MK really. When your worse matchup is the best/most popular character in the game, well... yeah. That's the reason why Fox and Wolf are more viable despite having worse matchups, because the do well enough against MK.

 

[Steam]

the lucario equation goes like this

1 x stock multiplier x damage multiplier

 

[stingers]

well iblis thats why everyone has luigi at thebottom of mid tiers in their lists now, theres no pride

 

[Conviction]

Isn't that the point really? If you have a death mu mk takes care of it and then if you do well against mk you're good lol.



Edit: what are pits mus vs. B tier and up?

 

[Steam]

also, I dunno about everyone else, but I think peach's matchups are inflated... especially that MK matchup lol.

and pit's matchups are probably considering Japan too much... if his matchups were really that decent pit wouldn't place like a low tier in the US.