Official BBR Tier List v5

[Conviction]

How much money has pit made anyways?
I remember looking at the chart and pit wasn't so hot.

 

[Steam]

122 dollars. 1/400th of all money won

 

[stingers]

thats like, 3x better than ganon. thats not bad 8]

 

[Conviction]

I just looked at johns chart, pit's success resembles sheik's LOL

 

[Lenus Altair]

Yup, result wise Pit has been doing crap.

Also there isn't a MAgic Fix to the MK matchup that every character has.

Pits Matchup Chart has:

-2: MK, Wario
-1: Snake, Marth, ICs, G&W

I pretty much agree with that, minus snake being even, and maybe TL/Oli being -1s. Pit has a couple matchups that are the 0/-1 verge that could totter either way, but the match ups has only been played so much by the "best of the best"

 

[Steam]

if his matchups are that good then who is pit losing to all the time? with those matchups he should be going pretty deep in regionals/nationals

 

[TheJerm]

Fuu, ok, to clear up all that stuff with my name in it.

Im aight at the wolf match up. I dont really know great strategies on how to beat him, but I feel as if I can win by just playing and doing what I do know. Its hard for me to fully get down the match up because of the gaps between when I do play good wolf players.

DIP

 

[Conviction]

Well you can do what all the other character boards' with improving mk mus have been doing. Learning studying every option at every situation, and if that doesn't help then that's just a character flaw.

Actually better question what are pits disaadv mus? If his results are crap that just might be a rep problem (I don't think so I believe his numbers are like the rest of mid tier). Then why aren't those mus that even, or adved beeing won?

Going on home more later.

 

[Lenus Altair]

if his matchups are that good then who is pit losing to all the time? with those matchups he should be going pretty deep in regionals/nationals

Personally I blame a lack of representation from equally high level players that other characters boast, but you know something else has me wondering...

John Numbers' Slightly Less ******** but Still WIP Tier List

Top Tier
S:

High Tier
A:
B:
C:
D: (//)

Mid Tier
E: (/)
F:
G:

Low Tier
H:
I: (/)

Bottom Tier
J: (/)

I took a much more statistical approach to this regrouping. It's still a work in progress, but I feel this is a lot closer to what the actual tier list should look like.

There are still a few slots I'm undecided on, as you can see, but I'll fix that in my Final Draft.

John, you know quite well having managed the success/popularity thread that Pit has done crap money/tourney wise... what makes you rank him so high?

 

[BSP]

John Numbers' Slightly Less ******** but Still WIP Tier List

Top Tier
S:

High Tier
A:
B:
C:
D: (//)

Mid Tier
E: (/)
F:
G:

Low Tier
H:
I: (/)

Bottom Tier
J: (/)

I took a much more statistical approach to this regrouping. It's still a work in progress, but I feel this is a lot closer to what the actual tier list should look like.

There are still a few slots I'm undecided on, as you can see, but I'll fix that in my Final Draft.

Sonic is at least C tier. There is no way he's worse than Luigi.

 

[stingers]

sonic is not C tier in that list, lol

 

[Eddie G]

also, I dunno about everyone else, but I think peach's matchups are inflated... especially that MK matchup lol.

and pit's matchups are probably considering Japan too much... if his matchups were really that decent pit wouldn't place like a low tier in the US.

They're absolutely not inflated, trust me.

MK is certainly not a -3 matchup. I'd give it a -2 at the most. Most other mid-tier characters perform around the same against many of the MK mains that actually matter, as in...fail (or get most respectable MKs down to one stock or something, maybe). Sure there are some beams of light here and there, Will beating a MK with his DK here and there, a Wolf beating a MK here and there, Nicole/LLOD/Illmatic beating Seibrik/Seibrik/Dojo respectively, etc.

Unless you play her yourself, kindly debate things with one or more people who main her first.

 

[Steam]

Sonic is at least C tier. There is no way he's worse than Luigi.

you better mean current C tier and not the Marth/Wario/Pika Ctier

edit: what MKs have good peaches beaten? what evidence is there that shows MK doesn't just kinda **** the character into mid tier? Though honestly a lot of those -2s should be -3s. Mario at -2 really? same with a few -1s...

 

[Conviction]

Never addressed my agruments...

 

[Eddie G]

you better mean current C tier and not the Marth/Wario/Pika Ctier

edit: what MKs have good peaches beaten? what evidence is there that shows MK doesn't just kinda **** the character into mid tier? Though honestly a lot of those -2s should be -3s. Mario at -2 really? same with a few -1s...

Evidence? Didn't I just name two top MKs off the top of my head that three notable Peaches have beaten? Dojo in Bracket, Seibrik twice in money matches to two different Peaches. Yes, she is mid tier, but that is not the argument I'm addressing here.

What matchups are you referring to that should not be considered as what they are though?

 

[BSP]

sonic is not C tier in that list, lol

you better mean current C tier and not the Marth/Wario/Pika Ctier

edit: what MKs have good peaches beaten? what evidence is there that shows MK doesn't just kinda **** the character into mid tier? Though honestly a lot of those -2s should be -3s. Mario at -2 really? same with a few -1s...

OOps lol I meant E in that list

 

[Lenus Altair]

Well you can do what all the other character boards' with improving mk mus have been doing. Learning studying every option at every situation, and if that doesn't help then that's just a character flaw.

Actually better question what are pits disaadv mus? If his results are crap that just might be a rep problem (I don't think so I believe his numbers are like the rest of mid tier). Then why aren't those mus that even, or adved beeing won?

Going on home more later.

Never addressed my agruments...

If you mean me, I kinda already did between saying that there isn't a magic fix (the reason why we know consider it a -2 instead of a -3 is because of a lot of the exploration of MKs fundamentals Pit mains have done) and I did list his disadvantage matchups before you even made that post....

Also its more a lack of quality representation... again. There are a number of solid Pit mains, but next to no outstanding ones.

 

[Steam]

Evidence? Didn't I just name two top MKs off the top of my head that three notable Peaches have beaten? Dojo in Bracket, Seibrik twice in money matches to two different Peaches. Yes, she is mid tier, but that is not the argument I'm addressing here.

What matchups are you referring to that should not be considered as what they are though?

oh I didn't see the MKs at the end of it, I saw a bunch of slashes and thought you were just list off peaches.

but we'd still have to compare it to how often peach gets eliminated by MK in tourney. because unlike pit, peach does not have a rep issue, she just doesn't do that well.

edit: you can't say that pit mains aren't good enough... that's really just dumb. Because I can say that Trela is *** and lucario is Atier after theorycrafting his matchup ratios in his favor. you can't assume pits/lucarios/whatever at a level that does not yet exist... if you want to bring up japan, we'd have to see how they do in our metagame if they ever come again. the one time a japanese pit did come he took 17th so yeah.

 

[Conviction]

Yeah that line isn't going to cut it. Pretty much what Steam said. Maybe your MUs aren't as good as you think. I haven't name this syndrome yet but it goes along the lines of "I know my character is this good but I can't do what I say and no one else can but sooner or later we'll do it" type of thing.

 

[Flayl]

In John's project Peach is currently doing better than Fox, G&W, Kirby, DK and Pit.

 

[Conviction]

Okay, I know they've been putting in work.

Illimatic/KB/Nicole what are Peach's MUs like?

 

[Steam]

In John's project Peach is currently doing better than Fox, G&W, Kirby, DK and Pit.

still, as good as her matchups are she should be doing much better... she doesn't have a rep issue either as she's used as much as most high tiers.

 

[Eddie G]

@ Steam- Why would that matter so much? Don't most of the other mid tier characters lose to MKs in tourney often enough, and to ultimately place similarly to Peach, for their performances against MK to be irrelevant as a comparison?

 

[Conviction]

John if you were to be so kind to average out the money being made by the number of character usage? This might solve this Peach thing.

LOL you editted like 5 times homie. I kept getting distracted by your post.

 

[_Kain_]

John if you were to be so kind to average out the money being made by the number of character usage? This might solve this Peach thing.

LOL you editted like 5 times homie. I kept getting distracted by your post.

I make more than all the Foxes. Get at my moneymaker status. Wolf>Fox

 

[stingers]

well WC tourneys are hardly recorded in that list cuz they use AiB so TKD could be making tons more and we just wouldn't know it

 

[Eddie G]

I make more than all the Foxes. Get at my moneymaker status. Wolf>Fox

Makin' that money. God Kais!

 

[Conviction]

Johns alert: If WC reported more TKD would make more money than you

On a more serious note, then you are just carrying Wolf. We have more than one Fox doing work.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU Stingers live topic.

 

[_Kain_]

well WC tourneys are hardly recorded in that list cuz they use AiB so TKD could be making tons more and we just wouldn't know it

You think he's made more than 600 in that timespan? Last I checked he didn't win any lately, and they weren't huge

I win

 

[Steam]

@ Steam- Why would that matter so much? Don't most of the other mid tier characters lose to MKs in tourney often enough, and to ultimately place similarly to Peach, for their performances against MK to be irrelevant as a comparison?

I'm one of those people who thinks MK's official ratios are extremely sugarcoated lol. peach isn't the only one who should probably have a worse MK matchup... D3 definitely should... the D3s even fought to get a -3 and they wouldn't get it.... The Lucarios had to debate to keep his matchup from MK from being a -1... 3 even matchups... Mario is somehow only a -2 >_>

and I'm just trying to say that winning 3 times doesn't make it only a moderate disadvantage if you lose countless other times.

 

[stingers]

in what timespan? since january when john started recording the money? lol

 

[_Kain_]

in what timespan? since january when john started recording the money? lol

Basically yes

 

[Lenus Altair]

edit: you can't say that pit mains aren't good enough... that's really just dumb. Because I can say that Trela is *** and lucario is Atier after theorycrafting his matchup ratios in his favor. you can't assume pits/lucarios/whatever at a level that does not yet exist... if you want to bring up japan, we'd have to see how they do in our metagame if they ever come again. the one time a japanese pit did come he took 17th so yeah.

I wasn't thinking of Japan, I was thinking how well... honestly at this point there isn't really any single player that you can point at for Pit in the states that shows an outstanding player compared to... well... a lot of characters. I mean a lot of Pits still idolize koolaid but I dunno, he does well in his region but the few trips he's made outside haven't been convincing. Other Pit players have seemingly done better.

Also how is it "really Dumb" honestly?

Perhaps Pits matchs up are inflated somewhat, but is really to the point that he is a character that is worse in tournaments then mario and pokemon trainer (According to Johns chart.) No, I don't think so. Character results can be inflated (like reflex has done for PT) and vice versa. I think Pit suffers from a lack of top tier representation. That's really all I can say, and all it is is an opinion.

 

[Conviction]

Are you counting TJ tournies and WC tournies?

Oh wait you are talking about in the recording session. I hate you WC.

 

[_Kain_]

Are you counting TJ tournies and WC tournies?

Oh wait you are talking about in the recording session. I hate you WC.

Even if it went past that. I'd prolly still have made more, so...Wolf>Fox

I still win

 

[Seagull Joe]

Since January, I've made about 150ish I think.

And Kain keeps winnningggggggggggggg.

Wolf>Fox

 

[Steam]

Wolf mains have tiger's blood

 

[Conviction]

Even if it went past that. I'd prolly still have made more, so...Wolf>Fox

I still win

Actually I think it would be pretty close in money.

EDIT: Hmm actually that would be something I'd like to see but I don't think my next-to-kin keeps track of his money.

Oh yeah I'm done about the Pit thing. No he isn't worse than PT but he is still suffering from that syndrome I mentioned.

 

[Steam]

I wasn't thinking of Japan, I was thinking how well... honestly at this point there isn't really any single player that you can point at for Pit in the states that shows an outstanding player compared to... well... a lot of characters. I mean a lot of Pits still idolize koolaid but I dunno, he does well in his region but the few trips he's made outside haven't been convincing. Other Pit players have seemingly done better.

Also how is it "really Dumb" honestly?

Perhaps Pits matchs up are inflated somewhat, but is really to the point that he is a character that is worse in tournaments then mario and pokemon trainer (According to Johns chart.) No, I don't think so. Character results can be inflated (like reflex has done for PT) and vice versa. I think Pit suffers from a lack of top tier representation. That's really all I can say, and all it is is an opinion.

maybe no pit players are outstanding because pit isn't that good of character.

it's really dumb because it can apply to ANY character that isn't placing as well as their matchups (and the same justification is always being used)

it really comes down to if you want a tier list based on how good the characters's mains think they are, or how good the characters are actually performing.

 

[Deleted member]

Wolf mains have tiger's blood

Hahahaha!!! <3