Official BBR Tier List v5

[Z'zgashi]

Dammit people, what they're saying is STOP THINKING RATIO NUMBERS

1 = slight advantage
2 = moderate advantage
3 = strong advantage
4 = imma **** you up advantage

 

[Flayl]

winning 6/10 times is a pretty big deal.
that's a relatively significant gap in character performance imo.

Pick any matchup that's called "55:45" on these boards and I guarantee you results will be a lot closer to "6 sets out of ten" than "11 sets out of 20".

edit: Might be the first time ever I agree with Zz'gashi.

 

[Spelt]

Dammit people, what they're saying is STOP THINKING RATIO NUMBERS

1 = slight advantage
2 = moderate advantage
3 = strong advantage
4 = imma **** you up advantage

Kind of.
It was also related to the old scale and it's meaning a few times.
This is a very ambiguous conversation.

Pick any matchup that's called "55:45" on these boards and I guarantee you results will be a lot closer to "6 sets out of ten" than "11 sets out of 20".

BUT 11/20 is obviously more accurate.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Numbers are arbitrary.

Meta Knight is all that matters.

 

[DMG]

Dammit people, what they're saying is STOP THINKING RATIO NUMBERS

1 = slight advantage
2 = moderate advantage
3 = strong advantage
4 = imma **** you up advantage

Basically

6:4
7:3
8:2
9:1

or

55:45
6:4
7:3
+++

 

[Flayl]

Kind of.
It was also related to the old scale and it's meaning a few times.
This is a very ambiguous conversation.



BUT 11/20 is obviously more accurate.

It's not more accurate if it's FICTIONAL. Brawl ain't that balanced yo.

 

[Spelt]

It's not more accurate if it's FICTIONAL. Brawl ain't that balanced yo.

What.
According to the current day metagame, brawl is fairly balanced.
Some people would argue there's only a few truly bad characters.
And bad does not automatically mean unviable, they're just sometimes used in the same context.

 

[DMG]

BOB THE BUILDER

CAN HE FIX IT

BOB THE BUILDER

YES HE CAN!









But then MK comes and Shuttle Loops it all...

 

[Meru.]

6_9

Is this a smilie?

Tbh it makes me think of... well, 69.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Whatever makes you feel better. A "slight advantage" is somewhere between the vicinity of 55-45 and 60-40 to me, more like 52.5-47.5 and 57.5/42.5 in the way you're used to. Take the numbers with a grain of salt and use your best judgment.

 

[Flayl]

Well if I said Bowser is -1 with Game & Watch, I would be accused of lowballing it to a "near even" rather than a small disadvantage (which is what I think it is).

Spelt: I looked up results for matchups like MK VS IC and MK VS Falco for the last MK ban thread. That stuff wasn't 55:45, but feel free to continue thinking they are.

 

[Espy Rose]

Dammit people, what they're saying is STOP THINKING RATIO NUMBERS

1 = slight advantage
2 = moderate advantage
3 = strong advantage
4 = imma **** you up advantage

This, this, for the love of all that is holy, THIS.

 

[Meru.]

Heh 57.5. I'm already preparing myself for seeing 58.75. I'll pass it on to the Pika Boards :D.

 

[stingers]

what are you guys' opinions on the jigglypuff/mario MU? i'm thinking somewhere 54.375/45.625 marios favor

 

[da K.I.D.]

no way dude. its definitely 51.9367 to 48.0633 jigglypuffs favor.



clearly.

 

[Spelt]

Spelt: I looked up results for matchups like MK VS IC and MK VS Falco for the last MK ban thread. That stuff wasn't 55:45, but feel free to continue thinking they are.

I don't even know where this came from.
If you think you're gonna be proved right by making no sense, two can play at this game.

 

[Life]

Falco-Pika is clearly 20pi-15e Pika's favor (that probably doesn't add exactly, the excess is to deal with the Falco going MK in game 2). And don't get me started on how Dorf goes e^(pi*i) to 11^2-20 with Olimar.

For something useful, +1 Zz's post.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Spelt: I looked up results for matchups like MK VS IC and MK VS Falco for the last MK ban thread. That stuff wasn't 55:45, but feel free to continue thinking they are.

That's not the rest of the game's fault, though.

Outside of that jerk, I would say the game is rather balanced overall.

 

[Flayl]

I don't even know where this came from.
If you think you're gonna be proved right by making no sense, two can play at this game.

Dude, keep up. You said that 55:45 matchups are the result of more accurate analysis. I said Brawl wasn't really balanced enough to have plenty of those kinds of matchups. Then you went on a tangent and said the game is pretty balanced and there are few characters that are truly bad. Then I went back to the original point which was matchups that are deemed 55:45 by the boards don't reflect on actual tournament outcomes, which I did a bit of research for back when MK was still a legal topic.

 

[Spelt]

okay, so you're using out of date information for an obvious outlier?
I can play this game as well.

 

[MBlaze]

no way dude. its definitely 51.9367 to 48.0633 jigglypuffs favor.



clearly.

Hahahahaha

 

[Flayl]

okay, so you're using out of date information for an obvious outlier?
I can play this game as well.

OK, you are clearly missing the point. The information was relevant AT THE TIME. Character boards were using 55-45 AT THE TIME.

But go ahead and do research for a common enough matchup yourself, I'm not making this **** up. I don't have a reason to do so.

 

[Nike.]

Flayl go eat poop

 

[Sinister Slush]

Am I the only one that wants to kick a puppy?

 

[stingers]

no way dude. its definitely 51.9367 to 48.0633 jigglypuffs favor.



clearly.

you are such a ****ing ******* there is no way the ratio is anywhere near that you inbred *****. I ****ing hate you and I hope your kids are born with AIDs and that they *** **** you when your sleeping and you get AIDs and die a miserable ****ing death all alone with your entire family celebrating the fact that your miserable ***** *** excuse for an existence is finally over

 

[Xebenkeck]

you are such a ****ing ******* there is no way the ratio is anywhere near that you inbred *****. I ****ing hate you and I hope your kids are born with AIDs and that they *** **** you when your sleeping and you get AIDs and die a miserable ****ing death all alone with your entire family celebrating the fact that your miserable ***** *** excuse for an existence is finally over

Your both idiots, those numbers don't even equal 100..... That last .00001 is important

 

[Spelt]

you are such a ****ing ******* there is no way the ratio is anywhere near that you inbred *****. I ****ing hate you and I hope your kids are born with AIDs and that they *** **** you when your sleeping and you get AIDs and die a miserable ****ing death all alone with your entire family celebrating the fact that your miserable ***** *** excuse for an existence is finally over

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_L-wKdCY7UXI/TUl5uuCQLiI/AAAAAAAAA1Y/TapAPxmpHPE/s1600/******-1.jpg

 

[Z'zgashi]

@Spelt: Thaaaaaaats pretty racist, eskimos are people too.

 

[Juushichi]

Your both idiots, those numbers don't even equal 100..... That last .00001 is important

I think you missed the point...

On topic: Why isn't Diddy Kong banned yet?

 

[Espy Rose]

@Spelt: Thaaaaaaats pretty racist, eskimos are people too.

You know Eskimos is a derogatory term, right?

Inuit, Z. Inuit.
Or Yupik.

 

[Seagull Joe]

not everyone conceptualizes the MUs in that way

according to the actual project:

+1 was defined as small advantage (55:45 according to previous notions, though no ratio was given)
+2 was defined as soft counter (6:4 " " ")
+3 was defined as hard counter (7:3 " " ")
+4 was defined as unloseable. (9:1 " " ")

i agree with what's laid out above above. however, there have been a few discrepancies, like i said before. the MKs thought they only soft countered ddd, simply because they destroyed other characters harder, while all the ddds (well, all two of us) simply wouldn't lower from our -3, hard counter. we never came to a resolution.

though i think the project was a great idea and executed very well, these kind of issues are ALWAYS going to be there. just try to take it with a grain of salt.

oh yeah, and i really don't mean to be rude but, why are so many people so confident in ALL of their characters matchups? a few regulars in this thread live in isolated regions with little relative talent, how can you be so cocksure?

Interesting.

trust me, i know. he says my character soundly destroys snake and goes even with olimar. i know, man.

the old system kinda sucked but at least it provided some kind of framework with understanding how different characters interact. it's difficult to kinda nail these ideas down but it's still really important, and until another form comes about, we gotta deal with it.

Define what an isolated region is pertaining to smash.

I do not say that. I say D3 vs Snake is what you would consider +2 D3's favor and Olimar is -2. This guy beats them odds:

 

[Laem]

Actually, new mu's are gonna be like 0.577

get @ the new level.

 

[Z'zgashi]

On topic: Why isn't Diddy Kong banned yet?

Because there isn't any reason for him to be? He's not even the best character. He has a few weaknesses and can be abused offstage.

If you want to ***** and moan about a character, at least make it Meta Knight as its obvious he has no problems.

 

[Xebenkeck]

I think you missed the point...

On topic: Why isn't Diddy Kong banned yet?

Don't you know, 63.44453 : 47.66657 is a hard-counter, and 63.44452 : 47.66658 is only a soft counter

 

[stingers]

we shouldn't ban diddy kong. we should just ban bananas. and if the diddy hits down b during the match they auto-lose. seems fair to me

 

[DMG]

z: trolling has started to get to you. I suggest a counter troll maneuver.

 

[Juushichi]

Because there isn't any reason for him to be? He's not even the best character. He has a few weaknesses and can be abused offstage.

If you want to ***** and moan about a character, at least make it Meta Knight as its obvious he has no problems.

... You're so gullible, Z.

 

[Steam]

40-60 is advantage not significant advantage
and not being able to kill is basically everything

either way I believe it's only a 55-45 or +1 >.>

 

[Z'zgashi]

... You're so gullible, Z.

Im just in a 'I want to respond and get pissed off at everything' mood right now. Keep bringing on your troll comments and imma beat you down with my opinions.

 

[Sinister Slush]

If you want to ***** and moan about a character, at least make it Meta Knight as its obvious he has no problems.

Wahhh wahhh... All of MK's moves are framesafe, Every B move makes him recover, 3 Tournament Rules brought up from the ground to keep MK from being banned...

Yeah yeah, we've gone over the *****ing thousands of times with MK. Lets just drop it and argue more about the supposed "Ratios"