Official BBR Tier List v5

[Deleted member]

It comes out frame one and he's invincible from frames 1-6, Hitbox comes out frame 7

6 frames of invincibility? I've always heard that it was 8.

 

[NAKAT]

ITT: MK invalidates TKD and Nakat

Not even

10nopes

 

[_Kadaj_]

Auspher if 8 then they need to update their frame data

and nah TKD and Nakat def. get the Fox credit

 

[Poltergust]

I was mainly talking about the ones where he did go to (minus Dallas, as like you said, he wasn't there). Didn't know about the DC difference. So I was right...3/4 of the tournaments?

If you want to count the top mains, then it'd actually be only 1/2, because I didn't go to Columbus or Raleigh, and San didn't go to Dallas. If you want to count everyone who attended that played either Ike or Yoshi, then it'd be 3/5 for Ike.

Just saying.

 

[Yikarur]

Auspher if 8 then they need to update their frame data

and nah TKD and Nakat def. get the Fox credit

both is wrong, it's 9.

 

[Z'zgashi]

How many frames of invincibility does MK's dimensional cape have when it isn't IDC'd?

 

[infiniteV115]

SmashWiki says, in it's article about Dimensional Cape:
"However, Meta Knight, while using this move, is invisible, but not invincible, and can be hit by any attack during the teleport, a fact CPUs often exploit."

It doesn't say specifically that MK is not invincible during the whole thing, but I would imagine that's what it is implying.

And FTR that information has been there for a very long time.

 

[Luigi player]

how many frames of invincibility does mk's dimensional cape have when it isn't idc'd?

He's invincible on frames 18-26..... so it's 9 frames.

 

[Thebest1pj]

I only use MK when I have to play a death MU or a mu that I am incapable of doing with Fox at the moment which are a few. Other then that you see my Fox out there about 80-85% of the time. Try living in the EC where death mu's float around everywhere. I mean I could've just went MK on Will and spammed all day, but instead I chose my main. I could've went MK on Zac but instead I did it with Fox without knowing the MU and pulled through :D

Neither did zac, namesearch ****.

Spoiler

but not really i was just reading through L

 

[Orion*]

ZSS is ok. Objectively she's just barely good enough to scrape by the bottom of high tier. I don't think she works as a mid tier character because there's pretty much always one or two people getting high tier-ish results. NR's results are more indicative of a top tier character, not a high tier one.

My biggest problem is not her ground game, it's her short hop. If her short hop was lower she would be able to approach with aerials but with her SH being so high she has to fast fall them and it's stupid predictable meaning when ZSS jumps you can shield and you're pretty safe. She can't just FF to nothing and grab you either, her grab isn't useful in that situation. For some reason all the command grabs were given to characters with perfectly functional normal grabs.

There are ways around this weakness as shown by NR, ZSS isn't a hopeless character. She's just not great.

That's my opinion of ZSS, it's been a while since I dropped in and said OMG ZSS IS AWESOMESAUCE she's about exactly where I'd have her. I don't think Lucario and GaW are much better if at all.

i think gaw is ctier also -.-

lucario idk

i honestly feel like he sucks *** and the only thing he has going for him is aura

except aura is broken. (sometimes)

 

[-LzR-]

SmashWiki says, in it's article about Dimensional Cape:
"However, Meta Knight, while using this move, is invisible, but not invincible, and can be hit by any attack during the teleport, a fact CPUs often exploit."

It doesn't say specifically that MK is not invincible during the whole thing, but I would imagine that's what it is implying.

And FTR that information has been there for a very long time.

Protip: Smashwiki says you can Lcancel Puff's jab to combo into a grab.
Don't take Wiki seriously please.

 

[da K.I.D.]

lucario is one of those character like dk that fights people physically and mentally.

both of those characters, are super annoying and depressing because you spend the first 2 minutes of the game/stock ****** them for free and than all of a sudden you get f smashed/AS'd/sakurai combo'd and your like, wtf, how did I die at 60? and than after that, youre too broken mentally to win anymore.

 

[Browny]

i honestly feel like he sucks *** and the only thing he has going for him is aura

except aura is broken. (sometimes)

wow what a ridiculous generalising statement

I think snake sucks *** and the only thing he has going for him is his damage output
I think marth sucks *** and the only thing he has going for him is his sword

etc.

People acting as if aura is some separate ability is just stupid. Aura IS Lucario and it encompasses every aspect of him as a character, not some thing he can just pull outa nowhere to tip things in his favour (like bananas, starting a CG).

Inbe4 'umad coz ur character is garbs', someone fix the record already. But claims like that about aura are just as ridiculous as mine about marths sword etc.

 

[MJG]

lucario is one of those character like dk that fights people physically and mentally.

both of those characters, are super annoying and depressing because you spend the first 2 minutes of the game/stock ****** them for free and than all of a sudden you get f smashed/AS'd/sakurai combo'd and your like, wtf, how did I die at 60? and than after that, youre too broken mentally to win anymore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIFdNjeISvc&t=0m25s

Oh the memories...

EDIT: GnW is SOOOO telegraphed.

 

[NickRiddle]

lucario is one of those character like dk that fights people physically and mentally.

both of those characters, are super annoying and depressing because you spend the first 2 minutes of the game/stock ****** them for free and than all of a sudden you get f smashed/AS'd/sakurai combo'd and your like, wtf, how did I die at 60? and than after that, youre too broken mentally to win anymore.

You forgot the part where DK is trash.

 

[_Kadaj_]

You forgot the part where DK is trash.

lmao

 

[NAKAT]

Neither did zac, namesearch ****.

Spoiler

but not really i was just reading through L

Which is why I never said that. I often read over this thread but hardly post do to some of the silly **** I see. I just like watching Orion and a few others come in hear and shut people down lol. There goes your name search bud.

 

[phi1ny3]

lucario is one of those character like dk that fights people physically and mentally.

both of those characters, are super annoying and depressing because you spend the first 2 minutes of the game/stock ****** them for free and than all of a sudden you get f smashed/AS'd/sakurai combo'd and your like, wtf, how did I die at 60? and than after that, youre too broken mentally to win anymore.

Yup, feels awesome, probably not so much on the other player's part.

Oh and I feel this is the same with snake, at least how I play him. I get better the more I know about who I'm playing more than reviewing my options on a character-by-character basis.

 

[Steam]

i think gaw is ctier also -.-

lucario idk

i honestly feel like he sucks *** and the only thing he has going for him is aura

except aura is broken. (sometimes)

in some matchups aura makes him lose >.>

against heavies it makes it like impossible for him to come back ironically.

I'd prefer him to be at base power all the time personally :V

 

[phi1ny3]

So what's with Vinnie pulling out all the stops in his character and getting too good?

 

[Coney]

eh, but there will always be at least one person hard repping any character up to B tier, guaranteed

some of C tier gets this luxury, but not all

 

[Z'zgashi]

Down to B tier you men. Up to it would mean C and below

 

[Coney]

words schmords

 

[Tagxy]

I think Orion's correct. G&W, Lucario, and ZSS are ok characters, but they really dont fit with the rest of B tier. Theyre in their own 'gimmmick' tier thats just barely better then those below them, but not as good as those above them. It probably looked to weird to have a massive C tier though and a small B tier, lol.

 

[Pikabunz]

After watching GIMR's vid, I tried to think of easier ways to power shield.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_MSM-v96tU

This practical or not?

 

[Poltergust]

K Prime, I believe most people know about that.

 

[C.J.]

Welcome to old Snake metagame, lol
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=257913

 

[Z'zgashi]

@KP: I actually did know about that.

 

[Pikabunz]

Ah okay, I've never seen it though.

 

[Z'zgashi]

You can PS Final Smashes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWXCWO1Cri8&feature=related

 

[Tesh]

Yea its just because it wasn't going to hit him crouching. You have to stand when shielding so its automatically the "first possible frame". Awesome for Snake and ZSS. Useless for Bowser and DDD.

 

[da K.I.D.]

After watching GIMR's vid, I tried to think of easier ways to power shield.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_MSM-v96tU

This practical or not?

its practical, but for all of the examples besides the tornado one, youre better off just ducking under the attack entirely and than counter attacking. shielding just puts a middle man in an otherwise nicely flowing operation, ya know?

 

[Pikabunz]

Well, is port priority for grab-breaks/throws known? I never seen anyone care about ports when playing against or as IC's, but it does matter. Just a little though. If a throw and grab break happen on the same frame, then lower port gets the throw/grab break. It's a very small advantage, but it's still an advantage.

 

[Z'zgashi]

OH SHI-!!!

inb4fightsoverplayer4

 

[Pikabunz]

Lower port as in player 1 gets priority.

 

[Z'zgashi]

oh lol, player one then.

I always use 3, so it seems 2/3rds of the time im at the disadvantage D:

 

[da K.I.D.]

well i used to make a deal about it, then i realised the chances of me and my opponent grabbing at each other on the same frame was rather low.

port priority for fighting snake and in teams is infinitely more important.

 

[Poltergust]

well i used to make a deal about it, then i realised the chances of me and my opponent grabbing at each other on the same frame was rather low.

port priority for fighting snake and in teams is infinitely more important.

He's not talking about that. He saying that if a grab-break and a throw were registered at the same frame then the player with the lowest port will get priority.

Although, if two people grab each other at the same time, does that also use port-priority? Based on what I've seen before, it is apparently totally random.

 

[Pikabunz]

It is random. Port doesn't matter with grabs.

 

[da K.I.D.]

You sure? I thought port priority determined whose grab went through when 2 people grabed at the same frame.

also how does a grab break happen at the same time as a grab? isnt that like 11 grab break inputs on the frame you get grabbed?