Official BBR Tier List v5

[The Truth!]

he belongs higher!

KTAR 3 results

74 Entrants

1: Ally ($350.40)
2: Anti ($175.20)
3: ADHD ($87.60)
4: Will ($58.40)
5: Atomsk ($29.20)
5: Inui ($29.20)
7: Nakat
7: dabuz

WoodBridge VI

1: June ($108)
2: Chu ($55)
3: Omni ($18)
4: Mero /// ($10)
5: Boss
5: Meep
7: Candy
7: Speed

And yeah...my double eevee might be a bit of overload.

 

[King Funk]

Too many Eevees on this page.

 

[-Mars-]

I'm not trying to undermine his achievements. X is an exceptional player. But you can't compare him to TKD yet.

Lemme know when TKD takes M2K to a game 5.

 

[TKD]

I don't want to discuss through posts, or else I'll end up with 13,000 of them...that'd be strange.

 

[.AC.]

Lemme know when TKD takes M2K to a game 5.

it wouldn't even get past game 3

unless

 

[Dark.Pch]

Fair enough. I understand and why and respect it.

 

[TKD]

Why would M2K take me to game 5? Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise would have to be allowed...which would be stupid, right?

 

[DMG]

He'd say "Oh a Space Animal, lemme just keep going to Battlefield"

 

[King Funk]

Why would M2K take me to game 5? Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise would have to be allowed...which would be stupid, right?

I don't really know how to interpret this. =P

 

[TKD]

You can interpret it by staying on topic:

I like that this thread turned so much into the topic of how awesome I am.

...Duh.

 

[The Truth!]

What about this

Why don't we talk about how I know the game well, but won't tell you stuff because you won't believe it?

Care to elaborate?

 

[Kuraudo]

Only because you have Gary in your avi are you pulling off self gloating. lol (well-deserved self gloating nonetheless, hahah)

Less tournament results (though they play a factor), more research of characters and how they better clash with others in the cast. To better determine a tier list that's fair and right.

This one is pretty decent though, from my perspective. (lmao, T-Block slapping Sonic at the dead bottom of mid tier. won't be thinking that when I send your apparently better characters packing)

 

[Calzorz]

You can interpret it by staying on topic:

...Duh.

sort ur attitude out u think ur amazing , vsing mk's who didnt even know how to not get grab released up smashed is not a great achivment showing they dont know the matchup at all

go play ally and others and get *****

or come to europe and we will gladly own u

 

[.AC.]

he would beat ally, lol even i could beat ally xD

Spoiler

1/3 serious

 

[DMG]

I dunno about you being awesome, but that Motha ****in Gary Oak be straight up OFF THE HOOK with them hoochie mamas all up on his junk, Grandad Professor Oak all scientific and s*** letting him counter pick whatever Ashe chooses, tellin his sister "**** OFF ASHE CAN'T HAVE A TOWN MAP", always Beatin up Gym Leaders like UFC Fighters against Toddlers before Ashe can even walk, that boi be downright BALLIN in Money and Fame. You can't describe in words how FIERCE he be strollin with that swagga, GREASY GRIMY GOPHER GUTS ALL IN YO FACE SON!

 

[TKD]

@Calzors: I don't think you need me as an example to do that...

Oh, DMG; you get it.
I'm going to check the RAIN tier list thread, where the cool kids are.

 

[etecoon]

I certainly don't consider the BBR ruleset "joke rules" and see no problem with Distant Planet which is definitely a real stage that does matter

real stage that does matter? NO TOURNAMENTS ARE USING IT, how is it a relevant stage? the BBR recommended it and the community outright rejected it, that should tell you something

I also think you are overlooking the fact that Snake can, between his explosives and super powerful aerials, kill you if you make a single planking mistake

planking isn't difficult and him killing you requires him to use things that are extremely telegraphed in this situation, you have to make a pretty massive mistake for him to kill you. additionally, his aerials are going to give you a ridiculous advantage on him in terms of risk/reward being taken. snake is not good against planking at all

and when you consider that maybe we might be planking with a character other than Meta Knight

most of my experience with plankers is with samus and pit players, I've never actually played a planking MK. in both cases I do better with falco than snake because it's easier to simply use falco and never lose the lead, snake's design as a character makes him prone to falling behind early and then he uses his weight and power to catch up, neither character can "really" beat planking and honestly I don't know as if anyone not named MK can, but admittedly I only really play these 3 + diddy and marth

 

[TheOriginalSmasher]

Poor Gary...


http://redvsblue.com/members/journal/entry.php?id=2574063

 

[Kewkky]

That's a dated list. I don't play PT anymore, and I've never seen Esca use PT--he's a Pit and MK player. Also, Chuck Nasty plays MK and GW over PT.

But yes, Reflex is eons beyond any PT out there.

That makes it even worse!

But, I chose those guys because the Player Rankings list has PT as one of the characters they use for tourneys (curiously, in the 2nd character slot next to their names, which means they use them lesst than mains but more than tertiaries in the ranked tourneys). I'll just go ahead and edit them out I guess.

Kewkky there's a lot wrong with that post... where's Magik on that list? And saying 78th is three times more successful than 255th is silly. Is 1st 15 times more successful than 15th?

You can't say my post was wrong. AL used the Player Rankings list as a basis for his arguments, so I used it to counter his observations. The replies weren't meant to be 100% correct no doubt no questions asked, I'm using a list that counts the tourneys in the Tourney Results forums. The replies were simply made to show AL why he was wrong.

I didn't mention Magik because he's not in the rankings, and AL was basing his opinions off in the ranking. Here's the thread if you want to look for Magik.

Still, is Magik so good that he invalidates my premise, which is that Reflex is over 3 times more successful than the follow-up PT mainer?



Still... Look at Reflex's tourney wins:tourneys ranked, then look at the next ranked PT user and main.


PT users:

#1 => Ranked 78 => Reflex => 3 gold/1 silver/3 bronze, 10 tourneys ranked
#2 => Ranked 255 => Esca => 0 gold/0 silver/0 bronze, 11 tourneys ranked

Now, PT mains:

#1 => Ranked 78 => Reflex => 3 gold/1 silver/3 bronze, 10 tourneys ranked
#2 => Ranked 718 => Steeler => 0 gold/0 silver/0 gold, 4 ranked ranked


THAT'S what I mean by over 3 times more successful.

 

[Enzo]

@ Etecoon
It is true that the BBR rule set has a couple flaws, especialyl on their counterpicking stage list. But it doesn't mean that the entire ruleset is garbage though.
actually Most rulesets have some flaws in them.
Including the MLG ruleset

 

[tibs7]

Lol mlg is such a joke.

 

[vVv Rapture]

Lol mlg is such a joke.

Lol contributing post is contributing.

 

[Browny]

I tried. There no way I can come up with another drawing like i did for 4.0 rofl that took FOREVER lol

 

[tibs7]

@rapture: Thanks for pointing that out.......

 

[Mota]

LOl Browny too good

 

[CheeseBurger]

this is the most atrocious piece of crap i have ever seen

 

[patoons]

why is ike 1 spot above sheik? most matchup charts i've seen gives sheik the advantage... so wouldn't that place her 1 above ike?

 

[Kewkky]

this is the most atrocious piece of crap i have ever seen

*looks at his join date*

Because it IS the only piece of crap you've ever seen!

 

[Dark 3nergy]

i tried. There no way i can come up with another drawing like i did for 4.0 rofl that took forever lol

roffffffffffffffffffffffffffl irl

 

[Red Arremer]

why is ike 1 spot above sheik? most matchup charts i've seen gives sheik the advantage... so wouldn't that place her 1 above ike?

No.
The tier list does not directly compare the matchups of characters standing next to each other. It doesn't matter if Ike beats Sheik or is beaten by her. I mean. It does matter. But it doesn't matter in their direct tier placing relationship. Even if Sheik beats Ike it doesn't necessarily mean Sheik is better than Ike. There's much more to a character than the matchup against a character next to them.

this is the most atrocious piece of crap i have ever seen

Maybe you should lay off the drugs.

 

[Renki]

No.
The tier list does not directly compare the matchups of characters standing next to each other. It doesn't matter if Ike beats Sheik or is beaten by her. I mean. It does matter. But it doesn't matter in their direct tier placing relationship. Even if Sheik beats Ike it doesn't necessarily mean Sheik is better than Ike.

But...she is, lol. :D

 

[Red Arremer]

But...she is, lol. :D

While I do agree with that, the statement was more meant generally rather than to express my opinion.

 

[Renki]

Understandable, no harm done. I honestly believe you all did an excellent job.

My only quirk would be the insignificant difference between Zelda/Sheik and Sheik's placements(as Zelda more or less cover's Sheik's 'biggest' problem, and helps with certain difficult matchups), but alas, results speak louder than words. We'll just have to step it up. =)

 

[Deleted member]

On top of that, Peach has not moved yet again? Each tier list season Peach has done better in tournies. Yet once again, still does not move. What lame excuse you have this time?

Us Wolf mains feel your pain.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Like I said before, the points are a result of factirong in both tourney placings, and tourneys attended.

Also, think about it this way... If Dojo has 5 #1 spots in small tourneys, and Nick has 5 #2 spots in large tourneys, which ones should count the most? Who's the most successful one? Who's the most skilled, and who best proves his skill? That's a very likely scenario that happens every day a tourney happens, and it's not a stretch thinking that maybe Nick's ranked higher than other people because of that same reason.

I don't think tourney size should be a factor. Since it is we need to understand a determine small. The VC series in NJ gets at least 80 people and has had 100+ people on multiple occasions. Is that small large or right in the middle ?Would a place that has 60 players be small or large? Would only nationals with at least 200 attendees be considered large? IF you need at least 200 attendees to make the tourney a large event what does that say about regionals that get 100+ and regionals that get a round 30?

The size of a tourney is a given, it obviously goes unsaid. If I mention it or not it's still obvious that they matter, it's like me saying "Pikachu beats Fox" after an extensive covering of the MU, then you saying "But what if I camp all the time?". I'm sure we all know that in any Fox vs Pika MU, the possibility of Fox camping Pika is such an obvious given, that no one has to mention it... Just like how big tourneys mean more than small tourneys.

Big tourneys = more hype and more exposure. Small tourneys don't have that. And generally don't have top players. THe players who tend to place there aren't respected because of the lack of exposure.

Regions shouldn't be factored in, only tournaments. Simply because you live in X region doesn't make you better than the player who lives in Y region. HOWEVER, if you place better than another player in different large-scale tourneys and your player ranking says so, then chances are that you're better than the other player. Region doesn't factor in at all, it's only how you do in tourneys, and how consistent with your results you are.

I said regions are a factor because you said if the #1 and #2 player are at the same tourney the #1 player should win and thus factors into the #2 player getting more 2nds. If we look at the regions and see how many times those players have attended the same tourney then we could make a claim like that. However, since that hasn't happened we can't.

I explained this, AL. I said that "near the top of the list, point gaps are very common". It's because they factor in how many matches you went through in a tourney to end up at your placing, and how many tourneys you've entered. The more tourneys you go to, and the larger the tourneys you go to are, the more matches you'll find yourself playing. The more you win matches in every tourney, the more it's reflected on your player rankings, in the form of the points I used... Near the bottom of the lst we have people who barely ever win matches, and near the top of the list we have people who win the majority of their matches. At the bottom, people tend to have an equal amount of matches won and tourneys attended, while near the top, players tend to have a different amount of matches won and tourneys attended due to traveling to OoS tourneys and doing well on those same tourneys. If you have the best character mainer visit the 2nd best character mainer's regions' tourneys, the 2nd best mainer will most probably have a harder time winning due to there being yet another more skilled player in the tourney, and one who knows his character better than he does. It's only logical.

TKD is ranked like 200 on that list has one win and is ranked lower than Zetton. Yet he's consider the best fox and is the person responsible for moving fox up the list. So being at the bottom of the list doesn't mean you don't win. It means you don't go to a lot of events or the tourneys you have achieved success in have been small.

It's responsible to assume that if the #1 ranked player for a character goes to another character regions then they'll out place that character. So it's a safe assumption to make I don't think we can make that leap with out the data to back it up.

By the way AL, a good way to persuade me is to use data too. You're talking about it, but I don't always have it with me. If you can show me how exactly are you forming your opinions (like I did in the other replies I did before), maybe I can understand your point of view. But right now, when all you do to try and persuade me is write text about numbers and leave out the numbers, it looks like you're wrong.

I'm using the same data you are. When you did the math I just used the same numbers except I just rounded up and rounded down. If TKD can show what fox is doing then Reflex should be able to do the same. Especially if we consider reflex is in the top 80 and TKD isn't even in the top 200. No offense to TKD or anything. His ranking may go I'm not sure since it hasn't been update in a while however, this is just where it stands now.

 

[NAKAT]

TKD is ranked like 200 on that list has one win and is ranked lower than Zetton. Yet he's consider the best fox and is the person responsible for moving fox up the list. So being at the bottom of the list doesn't mean you don't win. It means you don't go to a lot of events or the tourneys you have achieved success in have been small.

He definitely is not the only one who contributed to him rising.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

He definitely is not the only one who contributed to him rising.

.

BBR:
Fox is a reasonably viable, though difficult to use, tournament character who can hold his own against several top tiers. Watching TKD's performances against other top players, many BBR members are of the opinion Fox was underrated and might still be, despite bad matchups against Sheik and Pikachu, which goes to show a few bad matchups don't completely invalidate a character. It can even be argued that most characters in the game, including top tiers, have matchups they rather wouldn't stay in against. That said, Fox' bad matchups are on the extreme side and time will tell if he can live up to his potential.

I'd love to agree with you however, according to what the BBR says. TKD is the reason why fox moved up. Sorry mangz. Good job though at katar 3 7th right ?

 

[Zigsta]

I didn't mention Magik because he's not in the rankings, and AL was basing his opinions off in the ranking. Here's the thread if you want to look for Magik.

Still, is Magik so good that he invalidates my premise, which is that Reflex is over 3 times more successful than the follow-up PT mainer?

Magik's 319 on the list. He's apparently been using more MK than PT in tournaments as of that list.

But no, your premise is still vaild. Magik's the third best PT after Reflex and typh.

 

[RATED]

I was about to say Nakat but the person over me is Nakat LOL ( I think)

 

[NAKAT]

.

BBR:
Fox is a reasonably viable, though difficult to use, tournament character who can hold his own against several top tiers. Watching TKD's performances against other top players, many BBR members are of the opinion Fox was underrated and might still be, despite bad matchups against Sheik and Pikachu, which goes to show a few bad matchups don't completely invalidate a character. It can even be argued that most characters in the game, including top tiers, have matchups they rather wouldn't stay in against. That said, Fox' bad matchups are on the extreme side and time will tell if he can live up to his potential.

I'd love to agree with you however, according to what the BBR says. TKD is the reason why fox moved up. Sorry mangz. Good job though at katar 3 7th right ?

Oh yea the bbr haha yep I forgot it was them who discussed this. Yep well if they feel giving one persona all the credit is the best solution then go on ahead.

I was about to say Nakat but the person over me is Nakat LOL ( I think)

At leat you have the right idea .