Official BBR Tier List v5

[Dark.Pch]

couldn't the same thing be said about a peach main such as yourself ?

Peach main. Yes. Me? No. Cause the difference between me and these boys than think Sonic/Fox ix better is I can actually explain myself. As I have for the past 2 years with the tier list. I don't go saying things cause I simply think so and not explain reasons for it. Nor do I give weak reasons nether. For all I know, these boys could be saying this to TRY and sound funny. Which makes this community a big joke. To a point you can't even take the rules/tier list seriously.

Anyone who isnt a **** and actually knows me knows I can bring up facts and get down to detail with it. I don't bring in stupid comments that mean nothing to show off and try to sound funny online. me personally, it just makes you seem stupid. And a way to cover up that people really don't know anything in the smash community.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Atm Fox is better than Peach and Peach is better than Sonic

Sonic is better than Zelda/Shiek though, maybe even at a stretch better than Luigi

 

[Renki]

There's nothing wrong with being biased as long as you acknowledge that you are being biased. I actually think Fox is a good character myself. Better than Peach? Nah. Peach is mad good, but she gets little to no credit.

I still think Fox is really good though.


Edit: I don't really think Sonic's better than Zelda/Sheik when Sonic is the one who's forced to approach in the matchup.

 

[Renki]

Edit: Excuse the double post

 

[gallax]

The biggest difference is that fox has a reliable kill move whereas peach doenst. Fox is better than peach cuz of his mobility, ability to laser camp(which refreshes moves) and great mixups in the air.

 

[Renki]

I dunno, Peach has quite a few freebies on Fox. It's not like it's hard for her to kill him...especially...him.

 

[Ayoub]

Foxmains place better than Peachmains, so he is.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

The biggest difference is that fox has a reliable kill move whereas peach doenst. Fox is better than peach cuz of his mobility, ability to laser camp(which refreshes moves) and great mixups in the air.

This is unfortunetly true
Although her mobility has improved thanks to stuff like Bone Walking. I don't really know about mix ups but shine stalling + fast fall certainly can keep you guessing

Killing isn't one of those 'well you're screwed' flaws though, it just means Peach has to camp harder/be willing to take her time and time out if needed

Edit: I don't really think Sonic's better than Zelda/Sheik when Sonic is the one who's forced to approach in the matchup.

Match up? Maybe, thats only a problem vs Shiek iirc. No one really has to approach vs Zelda and if they do, its cause they don't have the lead lol
Overall though...well I couldn't comment since I'd have to remind myself of Shieks match ups
I just don't think Zelda contributes enough to bump Shiek up

 

[Dark.Pch]

Atm Fox is better than Peach and Peach is better than Sonic

Sonic is better than Zelda/Shiek though, maybe even at a stretch better than Luigi

Are you basing this on results alone? Cause if you are, then Fox is better. Bit if it is just about character ability and traits, no, he isnt. Same thing with DK.

But as usual, with the BBR, I call BS. Cause last one Peach had better results then Pit. Yet she not move and he got a +4 boost. But now apply this rule to fox. And look at where he is. People decide to follow what they want. when they want. Cause really, Peach should have actually moved a few spots. And DK as well. These people don't make any sense at all.

if you wanna aplay this game, lets Get DM for Zelda. Zelda sould be a few spots up cause of DM. I mean you played this lil "Top player showing how good fox is" Game. So whats up with DM with Zelda. And excel with Peach. You guys expose yourselfs too hard with your flaws. Really, if the BBR is gonna make mistakes, would it not be wise to hide them?

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Fox is better than Peach, but it's close. I personally ranked Fox one place above Peach. Fox is way more dangerous than Peach in general, but Peach doesn't have to worry about silly things like Pikachu cgs nearly as much. It about balances out I think.

Anyway, the real reason Fox moved up is that a lot of BBR members thought he was better than he was placed on the last list. Maybe TKD influenced them, maybe not. If you don't like them thinking this, well, sorry. I wasn't really one of them; my vote for Fox was 20th. We definitely didn't vote on the "explanations" in the first post; they're more vague summaries of some thoughts we had while voting that we put together at the last minute after the leak happened so we could release the list officially to the public ASAP. The contradiction between the Fox and PT text shouldn't really bother anyone because it doesn't matter. The simple fact is that everyone is placed where they are as a product of the average opinions of BBR members, and you can really only find out "why" by asking every single one of them.

Of course, you could start by asking people who were willing to put their necks on the line and make their votes public. Namely these guys (yes, the whole point of this post was to be an updated list):

Amazing Ampharos: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost....&postcount=381

DMG: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost....&postcount=390

ESAM: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost....&postcount=401

Dazwa: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost....&postcount=537

The Real Inferno: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost....&postcount=542

Kewkky: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost....&postcount=612

Espy Kasrani: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost....&postcount=620

T-block: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost....&postcount=695

gallax: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost....&postcount=779

Also, don't get emotional over the list. Dark.Pch, I know you really care a lot about Peach, but put it in perspective. For one, it's just a game. For two, Peach is just a tool you can use to play the game, and she's in no way a part of you. For three, the tier list does nothing to change what you can do with that tool within that game. There is no reason this should be bothering you that much. At worst we're wrong, and we look silly. So what?

 

[Ayoub]

Are you basing this on results alone? Cause if you are, then Fox is better. Bit if it is just about character ability and traits, no, he isnt. Same thing with DK.

But as usual, with the BBR, I call BS. Cause last one Peach had better results then Pit. Yet she not move and he got a +4 boost. But now apply this rule to fox. And look at where he is. People decide to follow what they want. when they want. Cause really, Peach should have actually moved a few spots. And DK as well. These people don't make any sense at all.

if you wanna aplay this game, lets Get DM for Zelda. Zelda sould be a few spots up cause of DM. I mean you played this lil "Top player showing how good fox is" Game. So whats up with DM with Zelda. And excel with Peach. You guys expose yourselfs too hard with your flaws. Really, if the BBR is gonna make mistakes, would it not be wise to hide them?

Pit should trade places with Peach, to begin with, x)

 

[GTZ]

fox's Usmash is godly, his laser move refresh camp is also helpful, his air moves are awesome. Peach does have good moves too though, I mained her in melee though and liked her better in that game than brawl.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Dark, MK is still a problem for Peach
Peach's are getting there - they're taking games off them and getting close but Fox is doing better in that regard because he's winning sets with TKD as the obvious example

And I agree with Ayoub, Pit has no business being above Peach

 

[Renki]

Match up? Maybe, thats only a problem vs Shiek iirc. No one really has to approach vs Zelda and if they do, its cause they don't have the lead lol
Overall though...well I couldn't comment since I'd have to remind myself of Shieks match ups
I just don't think Zelda contributes enough to bump Shiek up

Both Sonic and Sheik suck at killing. Sheik and Sonic go even with each other really. Sonic has an immense amount of mixups with his approaches, and Sheik has projectiles that don't blow like Zelda's. xD

Zelda somewhat fixes Sheik's killing issue, that's all. It's hitting the kill move that's kind of the issue.

I would say Sonic's better than Sheik due to the fact that no character hard counters him. That's all, really.

 

[Dark.Pch]

The biggest difference is that fox has a reliable kill move whereas peach doenst. Fox is better than peach cuz of his mobility, ability to laser camp(which refreshes moves) and great mixups in the air.

Is that it? Is that all you have to say as to why Fox is better before I say anything?

Fox is better than Peach, but it's close. I personally ranked Fox one place above Peach. Fox is way more dangerous than Peach in general, but Peach doesn't have to worry about silly things like Pikachu cgs nearly as much. It about balances out I think.

Sorry, but I don't agree with this. Reason i heard for fox being better are weak. And I'm about to tell you why.

 

[z00ted]

Dark Pch entering the tier list disucssion.

It has begun.

 

[Renki]

I personally think he's right though. :\

 

[GTZ]

fox is a fighter pilot, working to avenge his fallen father and restore peace.. he's a hero..

peach is a vulnerable pompous gait of royalty who has somehow managed to get caught by a genetically mutated turtle for the past 2 decades... apparently though, a fat Italian plumber can come rescue her with ease

if anything, shouldn't mario be higher up?

and another thing, why is the most bad@** character still the lowest.. RIP ganon

 

[Deleted member]

DM doesnt main zelda anymore, and hasnt beaten any top players with zelda in tournament.
Excell has not beaten top players with peach.
I dont see your point, both are very good with their characters, but live in less than stellar regions, and havent beaten top players with their characters in tournament.

People like TKD, X/Espy, and reflex just kinda let people know that these characters do have the traits to succeed when played by a smart player.
I cant beleive u compared DM and excel to TKD XD

Fox racks up damage slightly worse in CC, camps infinately better, kills sooooooo much better, and can actually catch someone running away

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I can tell you my experiences here; I've played Zeton's Fox (great KS Fox main) and a few random Peaches (the name is escaping me, but there's a fairly decent IA one I've run into a few times). Fox is just terrifying when played at max speed. He has great mobility, and once he gets in, you had better guess right when he's firing off that utilt at which point he can just be super ambiguous with his offense, and it's pretty hard to avoid taking damage in general. Once you are at kill percentage, he doesn't really struggle to finish the job. Peach, on the other hand, has tons of tricks, but her mobility is kinda crummy so she's easier to keep away. She can pressure amazingly up close, but then again, so can Fox! Turnips are the key for her no doubt, but I'd really rather deal with turnip approaches than Fox's running speed. Then, when you get at high damage, just play safe and Peach struggles ridiculously to kill you. As G&W I easily survive to at least 160% every stock against Peach. It's just not hard; she just can't kill as long as you pay attention. Even if she pulls a bomb, just calm down and realize she can't use any of her normal attacks as long as she has it so you really only have to watch out for her throwing it or random Peach Bomber (which isn't very scary). Just play careful until she wastes it and then get back to normal play. To be completely honest and serious, the only characters I find have a harder time killing than Peach are Sonic and Samus. It's something she can deal with I guess, but it's still kinda crummy.

Her one big advantage over Fox as things stand is that Fox basically loses for free to Pikachu and has a really hard time with several other really dumb things. In general, I also don't think either of them have virtue in their movesets worthy of being that high on the tier list. It's not that they're bad, but they're just not good either. I definitely think much more highly of DK than both, though the abuse DK loses to is the most absolute of all and holds him back the most (I would probably rank DK #10 if DDD simply weren't in the game).

There is still seriously no reason this should be bothering you.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Peach's mobility is underrated. Not as good as Fox's but still vastly underrated. Bone Walking helps her camp game a lot, much more than Free Pulling which atm only B Stickers can do

I hope that as the game becomes more campy and as Peach mains get better/people start to abuse time outs more often Peach will start to shine more often. I'm starting to care less and less about getting kills and simply playing an endurance match - why bother trying to kill when she sucks at killing but has a great defensive game?

Peach just needs a player of the same calibur as 'Player A' for all these other characters and I know many Peach mains will tell you the same thing

 

[Deleted member]

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

That makes me lol everytime but it isn't showing burntsocks :/

Moving on, I'm interested to hear as to why Wario went up 2 spots. I think he's good but what made people change their minds about his position?

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Peach's mobility is underrated. Not as good as Fox's but still vastly underrated. Bone Walking helps her camp game a lot, much more than Free Pulling which atm only B Stickers can do

The thing is about Peaches mobility isnt that its underrated, it's simply that fox can do alot more with his moveset relatively quickly where as peachs air mobility w/o float is pretty slow on average. Fox can shine stall, FF into whatever he wants, has relatively high and fast jumps, very quick ground speed. Compared to peachs float which has a really dynamic horizontal movement but its not very quick. Its much easier for a player to learn how to punish peach in the air than it is fox imo. Especially since peaches air dodge is so bad...Peach on the ground though, mixed in with float canceling shenanigans and turnip mix up games to follow up with aerials are much more scary to me imo. Even more so scary when she has platforms to hide under.

I hope that as the game becomes more campy and as Peach mains get better/people start to abuse time outs more often Peach will start to shine more often. I'm starting to care less and less about getting kills and simply playing an endurance match - why bother trying to kill when she sucks at killing but has a great defensive game?

Which is why i believe a peach who camps alittle bit more and stay relatively close to the ground to abuse her turnip game is one that'll get far.

Peach just needs a player of the same calibur as 'Player A' for all these other characters and I know many Peach mains will tell you the same thing

Peaches have been saying this forever, why havent you guys done this yet...? whats your problems? [pls dont say MK]

 

[DMG]

Wario went up because he's more dynamic that people previously thought.

Dynamic characters been rising up in general.

 

[Spelt]

Fox's tournament placings have been steadily going up for several months, while peach's places have become pretty stagnant for awhile now.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

its no surprise that characters with extreme traits will do well or better as meta game progresses. In foxes case it was simply people figuring out what he can do with his extremities such as shine stall, and his movement speed. Wario too also has seemingly good universal tools vs the cast as a whole

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Fox's tournament placings have been steadily going up for several months, while peach's places have become pretty stagnant for awhile now.

Have they? I don't regularly check Fox's results but Peach's are still getting results in, I wouldn't have said they're stagnant. You're probably better off checking with someone else but Peach's still get results in. Probably not as good as Fox's (infact I'd be willing to bet on it) but I wouldn't have called it stagnant

 

[Espy Rose]

I would say Sonic's better than Sheik due to the fact that no character hard counters him. That's all, really.

Falco says hi.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

@espy

I wouldn't exactly call 60-40 hard countering.

 

[Deleted member]

Fox's tournament placings have been steadily going up for several months, while peach's places have become pretty stagnant for awhile now.

Tournament results don't matter in this tier list.

 

[Renki]

Falco says hi.

I would imagine lasers make your approaches rather irritating, but I dunno, I don't think he really 'hard' counters Sonic.

So, where do you ultimately think Sonic belongs now, Espy? o: Top of Mid? Right in the middle?

 

[Dark 3nergy]

I would imagine lasers make your approaches rather irritating, but I dunno, I don't think he really 'hard' counters Sonic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSU_gQY2rEI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSdeCc6Mtrw

 

[Renki]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSU_gQY2rEI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSdeCc6Mtrw

Haha, touch`e. Thanks D3. xD

 

[MarioMariox2]

If Mario rose in Melee, Mario can rise in Brawl. C'mon Mario mains! A 2 character gap holds us back from being Mid Tier!

 

[The Real Inferno]

You know, -somebody- has to be low tier. Not everyone can rise out XD

 

[C.J.]

why do people want to be NOT low tier anyways? Make Marth low tier plz

 

[Dark.Pch]

The biggest difference is that fox has a reliable kill move whereas peach doenst. Fox is better than peach cuz of his mobility, ability to laser camp(which refreshes moves) and great mixups in the air.

Fox has one kill move that is good. And that is an upsmash. Which is only good for light characters. I would not even call that reliable. Since it is his only good kill option and it would be expected at high % His other moves don't kill as well. This also applies to shiek. Only good move she has to kill is her Upsmash. These 2 don't have alot of options to kill.

Peach does not kill early but does have more kill options. But Peach makes up for it in one thing. And that is her ability to fact up damage. With and with camping. Peach has to ultilize this trait of hers to get the enemy at that certain %. Then go in for the kill. Peach players don't do that. And use fair alot. Which is why I stay hearing the typical "Her fair is always stale" Thats not Peach's fault. It's the players fault. No one said you have to abuse that move 24/7. And also go for the kill so early. Once I get my enemy to that death % I can then dish out kill moves. And I have more then just one good attack to do so. I'm not lilited.

Fox does not have better air mix up then Peach does. I for one thing can fight/space in the air with a tunip in my hand. She has a better air game than Fox. What mix ups are we talking here. Stale with D-B to bait a reaction then Drill to grab/upsmash? Peach can tunip juggle, fight with one in her hand, dish an air attack, then toss the turnip, Z grab the one she trough in the air, and toss it. or I can just attack you , then toss it or.................yea, I can keep going, and THIS is what you call mix ups. I have pletny of options.

Dark, MK is still a problem for Peach
Peach's are getting there - they're taking games off them and getting close but Fox is doing better in that regard because he's winning sets with TKD as the obvious example

And I agree with Ayoub, Pit has no business being above Peach

At this point I don't wanna hear " Meta is still a problem" Cause Meta is not the only character Peach players are losing to all the time. If that was the case, then that staement would be strong, But it isnt. Really, this statement does not mean anything.

DM doesnt main zelda anymore, and hasnt beaten any top players with zelda in tournament.
Excell has not beaten top players with peach.
I dont see your point, both are very good with their characters, but live in less than stellar regions, and havent beaten top players with their characters in tournament.

People like TKD, X/Espy, and reflex just kinda let people know that these characters do have the traits to succeed when played by a smart player.
I cant beleive u compared DM and excel to TKD XD

Fox racks up damage slightly worse in CC, camps infinately better, kills sooooooo much better, and can actually catch someone running away

See what is in red? Thats what DM and excel did. Never said anything about them beating top players. Don't assume so much and actually look at what one is telling you.


Amazing Ampharos -

I can tell you my experiences here; I've played Zeton's Fox (great KS Fox main) and a few random Peaches (the name is escaping me, but there's a fairly decent IA one I've run into a few times).

You screwed up your post already by saying this. You comparing a good fox to a few random Peach players that you can't even name. Nor have done anything big in tourny. Yet alone on pro level. this means nothing and does not state what Peach can actually do. As to how People bring up TDK and what fox can actually do. Fairly decent does not cut it. This is not to be mean but straight real here.

Once you are at kill percentage, he doesn't really struggle to finish the job.

Really? With ONE good option to kill? His other moves don't kill that well. But I already went through this.

Then, when you get at high damage, just play safe and Peach struggles ridiculously to kill you

Not true. Again, this is not a character problem. But a PLAYER problem behind the character. People wanna rush in to get the kills. You are not suppose too. Peach is not hard to stop when she is being aggressive or hugny for the kill. When I played rains Falco at apex I was doing fine. We was going even. I got him to that kill % And I made one big mistake. I rushed in to kill him. I should have played the same way from the start. But no. I got hughy. Rushing in with Fairs while he lasers and F-B? That was a stupid thing to do. And for that I end up getting 2 stocked. I rushed that whole time.

Peach is like chess. You plan your moves. You don't just take a pwan with your queen when there is a pawn on the other side to take your queen if you execute that action. In smash terms, I should have not rushed rain for that kill without thinking on how to land it. And thats a general problem in the Peach community. Aggression. Lil no no patients. using moves to much. trying to kill early when it's not time for them to die.

As G&W I easily survive to at least 160% every stock against Peach. It's just not hard; she just can't kill as long as you pay attention. Even if she pulls a bomb, just calm down and realize she can't use any of her normal attacks as long as she has it so you really only have to watch out for her throwing it or random Peach Bomber (which isn't very scary).

See man? This is why I always question what people actually know about characters. What you just said here is typical peach play. G&W should not live that long. I have actually ran test on % which characters will die. I did a whole report on it and have it saved on my PC. Peach you be playing fair alot. It's basic Peach play you are up against. So of course you won't die. But fresh bairs/fairs. No, you are not living to 60. If her moves are spammed alot. The damage goes to like 6% and knock back is really weak. So add that with good DI.

As for the bomb in hand. You must have for gotten that I can dish out air attacks with items in my hand. it s called floating. As long as I am floating I can dish out all my air attacks and not toss my item. And I can also ground Float to use my air attacks grounded while holding it. So know you have to watch out for:

Bomb
Peach bomber (which is actually silly to even do. But guess for mindgame material?)
Fsmash (Yes I can Fsmash with items in hand, But I am sure you know that right?)
Fair
Bair
Nair
Upair
Dair

I can mix and match all of this to bait reactions or even pressure you before I toss it.

To be completely honest and serious, the only characters I find have a harder time killing than Peach are Sonic and Samus. It's something she can deal with I guess, but it's still kinda crummy.

I have the ability to rack up damage and pressure like hell. I am suppose to abuse that. That is how I make up and kill well. Same time ABUSE all the techs and tools she has to do so. I said this many times and I'll say it again. No Peach alive has ever abused all that she can do. No bone walking, no turnip free pulls, No float on stage when you can the ledge so any gets on and hit them with an attack or send them out. Then repeat. etc........

- Float land
- Float on stage
- Turnip cancels
- Bone walking
- Let go of ledge to float, some frames of invicibility and nair
- Turnip juggle
- Ground/master ground floats
- Z drop techs
- Float hops ( w/e they call this thing. its where you can run and then instant stop in place and do w/e you want after. Kinda like a wave dash and the true uses of it)
- Ledge cancel Fairs
- Jump cancel toss.
- Dtilt slide

Now imagine if one Peach at PRO level was to actually master and abuse this. Do you have any idea the distruction that she will be doing in the hands of a smart dude? With this she be up on the tier list. As for what spot I can't tell. yet alone she should have moved already. Ands that excluding using all of this.

Did you know that Is Peach was to free pull and bone walk on DDD, he can't do anything? She can camp him to no end. He can't do anything out his shield to stop it. if he was to do a ground move, he has to drop his shield. which is 7 frames. Then add that to the frames of the attack he is doing. I tested this with a good DDD player I know. I wanted to see if I could camp the **** out of him with the bone walk/free pull. I toll him to try and stop me while I did all this as well as mixed pressure. He can't do anything. I checked out frames too to see if there was ways he could punish me for it. He can't. Space, pressure, camp, DDD is done. One thing he could have done was try to go in with Bairs to hit the turps and then me. But he lives himselve open if he is going in. Where I can nair him with a Nair. It he is spacing the move, I don't have to test it. Just keep camping him. And with him spacing, I can pinn him to the edge of the stage. Were I can go in with a nair, or pressure to end his stock.

But you never actually seen or heard a Peach do this to DDD have you. Limitation of the character and player.

But again. No one is on pro level yet and they don't do half of that list or master all of them. So Peach players actually limit themselves hard. Cause all this NEEDS to be abused. And for this, I am not surpised why people say some of the typical stuff about Peach that I have been hearing since this game came out.

Her one big advantage over Fox as things stand is that Fox basically loses for free to Pikachu and has a really hard time with several other really dumb things. In general, I also don't think either of them have virtue in their movesets worthy of being that high on the tier list. It's not that they're bad, but they're just not good either. I definitely think much more highly of DK than both, though the abuse DK loses to is the most absolute of all and holds him back the most (I would probably rank DK #10 if DDD simply weren't in the game. There is still seriously no reason this should be bothering you.

My big advantage is that Peach has good match ups with the high tiers. Se actually loses to Marth, snake (slighty) and of course meta, but that is a giving. She goes even or beats everyone else.

Next advantage is that I can pressure you and I get frame advanatgae on you. I do it correctly, No one can do anything out of thier shield. Only Marth with his Up-B

Ground float>Nair(Space)>Jab (Or jab cancel) Gound float>Nair
Glide Toss>Nair(Space)>Jab (Or jab cancel) Gound float>Nair

Those 2 examples I gave. Done right, You can' do anything out the shield. All youhave is a side step or roll. And with 2 options, A smart player can read that and punish. And I can mix and match what I just said here to add more pressure. She can mix up her pressure both on the air and ground. As well as having Both a good air/ground game.

This is by no means bother me. People assume tooooooooooooooooooo much of me. I state facts about my character. That does not mean it is bugging me. I don't show emotions online. If I feel a certain well, I'll directly say so. But again, The way People use now, and how they limit themselves. I am not surpised abiyt her not moving yetagain and the typical stuff people say about her. Been hearing the same thing for 2 years.

I don't go saying Peach is god like or high tier. I know my characters flaws very well and what sucks about her. yet people tend to think I am bias about her cause I don't bring them up. Why should I. I hear people going on and complaing about this character all the time. They do it for me.

I am honestly not hear to change peoples opinions. Cause really. it's always Me against 100 people in the smash community. I'm really gonna win at these odds? What I do as a member and a competitive player of the smash community is state things about my character. No one has to even belive one thing I say. Which I am pretty sure they don't. I did what I had(wanted) to do. Really for the few people that care and wanna hear the truth). You boys can do w/e you want. Put Peach under ganon for all I care. its me Vs BBR. Come on now. You really think I am gonna change your minds? Me, Dark.Pch of ALL people? Heh, been losing this fight for 2 years.

Yet why am I still at it. Cause this is actually fun for me to do. And it also gives me a review on my character. As well as to share insite on Peach for those that cares. Pretty much what matters to me. In this community, its seriously hopless to change the mind of the BBR. really with the people in there now.

 

[vVv Rapture]

If Mario rose in Melee, Mario can rise in Brawl. C'mon Mario mains! A 2 character gap holds us back from being Mid Tier!

Is it me or does it seem like every Mario main is like the same person? They all sound the same to me. =/

But, on a serious note, I honestly can't see Mario rising at all, especially because the two characters you mentioned happen to be Yoshi and Lucas. While Lucas isn't the most over-achieving character ever, he definitely has some things going for him. Yoshi, however, is just obviously much better than Mario. With what guys like Poltergust and DeltaCod have done with Yoshi, it'd be a bit too ignorant to say Mario would rise over him.

If anything, Yoshi should eventually move into low mid-tier, not Mario moving above both Yoshi and Lucas.

 

[YagamiLight]

Is it me or does it seem like every Mario main is like the same person? They all sound the same to me. =/

That's actually a good observation, they all are more or less the same person.

"Why is Mario so low? He was good in Melee / he is better than those around him. It's just that nobody uses him!"

What everyone seems to be missing is that Mario is a terrible, bottom 5 character.