Official BBR Tier List v5

[-Mars-]

You keep saying like so and so character only has 1 kill move blah blah blah blah. Your moronic posts about the game have me wondering about whether or not you actually play or get to see this game played in person because that's just not how stuff goes down in sets homie.

 

[-LzR-]

Our definition of a killmove must be very different.

First, let's say what is a killmove? Then we can argue about it.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

First, let's say what is a killmove? Then we can argue about it.

Any move that kills before 200%. Obviously there are kill moves that are better than others (Kills at 80% vs kills at 180%). I say up to 200% because you have to consider a weak character's kill move VS a fatty like Snake, or stages with larger boundaries. (like Peach vs Snake. Or even Peach vs Ike. I've seen Ikes at around 180% vs Peach when they kept their DI game up. Imagine Snake doing that.)

Now, if you want to go into reliable kill moves, that's another thing all together, and much more subjective. I would argue that as long as you can at least punish a spotdodge with it by starting up the move during the animation, it has at least a small amount of reliability. If somebody can spotdodge multiple times during the move's start up, it ain't so reliable.

 

[-LzR-]

Of course a reliable killmove. Just because a move can kill doesn't make it a kill move duh..

To me killmove is the move that the character mainly relies on to get kills. For Ganon I would call his DA a killmove as it's overall his best AFAIK. Even thought he can kill with pretty much anything.

 

[Ripple]

jigglypuff having 1 kill move is stupid right there.

rest IS reliable. fair is too. DACUS is an amazing kill move

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Of course a reliable killmove. Just because a move can kill doesn't make it a kill move duh..

To me killmove is the move that the character mainly relies on to get kills. For Ganon I would call his DA a killmove as it's overall his best AFAIK. Even thought he can kill with pretty much anything.

With that logic, every single character in the game only has one kill move, as every character has a move that is the best option for killing in most cases.

That's just stupid.

 

[-LzR-]

Whatever then. It's just a term then. It has no meaning then.

 

[san.]

Jigglypuff at least has dash attack and utilt/upsmash. Rest is only reliable after a dair trips an opponent, but it's pretty unusable due to great risk (all of its other setups requires risk/luck).

 

[demonictoonlink]

Whatever then. It's just a term then. It has no meaning then.

Oh my god give up on the kill move thing. It had meaning, just not some stupid one you gave it.

 

[-Mars-]

Take Sheik for example. Below 150% she has 0 good KO moves. Sure, you might get a lucky DACUS tipper or you might have a GR>DACUS option in the matchup but most of the time not.

At 150% though all of a sudden her extremely fast aerials and her dsmash all become really good KO moves.

Now does that mean she has good KO moves? No.

Does she have reliable KO moves? Yes.

So your definition of a KO move makes no sense.

MK's dair/uair kills all the time....do we consider it a KO move? No.

Edit: DTL come to Utah so we can grape you!

 

[-LzR-]

DA, utilt, usmash and rest aren't really reliable, but as far as Puff kills, those are her main choses for me usually since my fair is usually stale.

Risk in theory is an unpunishable and strong upwards killer, but thanks to human error it's just a funny thing to use in friendlies.

 

[Yikarur]

dair is a gimp move!

 

[Ripple]

Jigglypuff at least has dash attack and utilt/upsmash. Rest is only reliable after a dair trips an opponent, but it's pretty unusable due to great risk (all of its other setups requires risk/luck).

do you really try and go for up-tilt kills san? that move is insanely hard to space so they don't grab you and you can use it on them. I think it's safer to go for a rest than an up-tilt

 

[-LzR-]

Indeed it is.

And Mars, what I mean't again was the primary reliable killmoves. Of course no one has killmoves from 0%...

Anyways, I am out of that topic.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Edit: DTL come to Utah so we can grape you!

I think I can take Utah
Post in the CO board whenever you have a big tourny and maybe we could get a carpool.

Prolly not X though. But Sonic doesn't count.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Of course no one has killmoves from 0%...

Game & Watch's lucky numba 9 has something to say about that.

 

[-LzR-]

That kills from like 1% D:

Oilpanic actually does kill from 0%. But again it's not a killmove because it's requires you to absorb 3 strong energybased projectiles.

 

[Z'zgashi]

LzR, a kill move is something that CAN kill. CAN

Oil Panic IS a kill move, it's just a situational kill move and not as reliable. >__________>

And judge can kill at 0%. Ive seen it done on a DK at BF.

 

[-LzR-]

Marth's uthrow must be a killmove, it kill at about 200%.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

And judge can kill at 0%. Ive seen it done on a DK at BF.

Overwhelming an opponent so that they end up KOing themselves in a match is not the same thing as a 0% KO. If that is what you mean...

 

[-Mars-]

I don't know if you realize this....but high level competition your not really going to be killing sub-150% very often. People are too smart. They space too well.

Instead of pointlessly talking about KO moves you should instead look at whether or not a character is good at KO'ing in a competitive environment.....not whether or not they have a powerful moveset.

 

[-LzR-]

If a character isn't good at killing in a competitive environment then they must lack a good killmove.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Not even "high level competition." Even mid-level players are really good at surviving because DI in this game is easy and stocks go on for so long that eventually your opponent has used all of their kill moves and they're stale.

 

[-Mars-]

If a character isn't good at killing in a competitive environment then they must lack a good killmove.

False. G&W is terrible at killing in a competitive environment.

Yet you look at his moveset and it would appear that he would be amazing at it.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Overwhelming an opponent so that they end up KOing themselves in a match is not the same thing as a 0% KO. If that is what you mean...

Number 9 dammit! Number 9!

EDIT: @Mars: I sort of disagree on the gw thing. One good read and he kills with a smash, oil panic, etc. Good tech chasing w/dthrow > dsmash kills early as well. I agree that on paper he would seem to kill better though.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Number 9 dammit! Number 9!

I play Snake. So that heavy does not die at 0% from a single number 9.

About the killing thing, every character in the top tier list has issues killing. Either because they lack a strong move to kill early, or because it is impractical to land a kill move. If you look a Snake, he can kill early, but it is a pain to land hits with anything other than grabs, Ftilt or nades. And ftilt is not really a killer more.

Edit: Actually, that is brawl in general. Too many safe options against not getting hit by KO moves.

 

[-LzR-]

False. G&W is terrible at killing in a competitive environment.

Yet you look at his moveset and it would appear that he would be amazing at it.

That is exactly what I mean't about Snake and his killing outside of utilt.

 

[Z'zgashi]

It'll kill on a ledge, just not middle of the stage.

:ledge: + + 9 = Death


@LzR: But all he needs is utilt. If your one reliable move is THAT ridiculous, who cares?

 

[-LzR-]

Yeah and Ganon's ftilt kills at around 5% near a walkoff.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Maybe on jiggs

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

On walkoffs if ZSS lands a dash attack on you at mid percents you die.

 

[-LzR-]

Yeah whatever. Mind getting back on a topic that matters? Let's talk about Yoshi again

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

^
Sorry, getting a bit impatient over the situationals. Might we move on?

 

[Ripple]

I don't think we've talked about falcon much these days

 

[-LzR-]

Who? You mean Yoshi? Yeah we should talk about Yoshi! I agree!

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I don't think we've talked about falcon much these days

Is there much more to say? His moveset is pretty much grabs, jab, and Uair. Then add in situations for his other moves as mix-ups since they are not all that reliable for anything.

I am interested in the more to say.

 

[Meru.]

I don't think we've talked about falcon much these days

Yes good idea!!

Why the **** is he higher than Link, Samus, Zelda and possibly Jigglypuff?

 

[Ripple]

Is there much more to say? His moveset is pretty much grabs, jab, and Uair. Then add in situations for his other moves as mix-ups since they are not all that reliable for anything.

I am interested in the more to say.

Is there much more to say? His moveset is pretty much grabs, jab, and Uair lazer.

^falco

see how simple you can make a good character look.

falcon for top tier

 

[-LzR-]

Isn't Ally like the only good Falcon? All others are just jab grab dthrow knee falcon punch lolyoutubecombo Falcons.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Falcon should just pull that gun on his hip out of its holster and he'd instantly raise 5 tiers.