Official BBR Tier List v5

[YagamiLight]

So yea I don't get it it's like you guys are complaining just to complain about something.

You just described most of the smash community.

 

[Ripple]

you know who I hate?

ganon mains

they make me try because they know how to hit someone 5 times

 

[Ussi]

I'm not sure if I quite follow what this means. He did a regular CG at 4:37.

I thought you meant before that DDD got no grabs he could have done a standing infinite.

My mistake

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Being above ROB, Peach, Pit etc. garbage characters who haven't done anything in years is not much of a stretch. Like honestly which of the characters below Fox deserve to be higher than him....with the exception of Sonic?

Maybe DK. Definitely not Peach. ROB is debateable. Pit is just as "unproven" as you think Fox is. Wolf sucks.

So yea I don't get it it's like you guys are complaining just to complain about something.

In fact if they hadn't used the "P" word and just moved him up because they has power and is the BBR you guys probably would be fine with it.

DK should most likely be above him. Peach should be. ROB is debatable.

And I would be complaining about it if they hadn't stated potential, because then there would have been no reasoning at all, and would have managed to (somehow) look worse.

Fox has done nothing to deserve the raise. Not a single thing. Nothing has changed from tier list v4 to tier list v5 to make Fox able to move up. If there is no reason to do so, don't make up random crap to move him up, particularly if said crap contradicts what you've said to move down other characters. That's just common sense.

"Pit moved down because the potential we saw never really existed. BTW, we're moving up Fox partly because of potential."

"PT moved down because it was too much Reflex, and next to nothing from anyone else. BTW, we're move up Fox partly because of a guy who has done less with the character than Reflex did with PT, and has always been doing fine with Fox and MK. Yes, we do realize there is hardly anyone else out there appearing on the radar when it comes to Fox."

Ya, I don't like how you're trying to back up something insanely stupid. There is not a single, logical way, to have Fox up that high. Every single reason for his movement is contradictory to other movements. He should have been exactly where he was in v4, because nothing significant changed for Fox or the characters around Fox except for realizing their mistake with Pit.

 

[-Mars-]

Yeah, Wolf is complete trash.

Fox walks on water. His existence gives out free wins.

Son do you take salt baths?

It's ok. Fox is above Wolf. Life goes on. Deal with it.

 

[Deleted member]

No really!! Fox beats MK. Boost him to high tier please.

 

[Ussi]

Instead of thinking about moving characters around, can we just start the 6th one from square 1, using all the data from tourneys and current day MUs to determine placement instead of placements in the previous ones (Like Browny said)

 

[Ripple]

No really!! Fox beats MK. Boost him to high tier please.

hasn't been proven.

it's been proven that TKD > MK

fox != TKD

 

[Steam]

well it makes more sense for fox to move up above some characters. I mean like RoB and Peach have basically no rep from anyone whatsoever...

 

[Chuee]

dk should most likely be above him. Peach should be. Rob is debatable.
dk is never going to be better than fox as long as infinites are allowed.

and i would be complaining about it if they hadn't stated potential, because then there would have been no reasoning at all, and would have managed to (somehow) look worse.

Fox has done nothing to deserve the raise. Not a single thing. Nothing has changed from tier list v4 to tier list v5 to make fox able to move up. If there is no reason to do so, don't make up random crap to move him up, particularly if said crap contradicts what you've said to move down other characters. That's just common sense.
yep, definetely, i mean the only reason a character should rise is good tourny results.

"pit moved down because the potential we saw never really existed. Btw, we're moving up fox partly because of potential."

"pt moved down because it was too much reflex, and next to nothing from anyone else. Btw, we're move up fox partly because of a guy who has done less with the character than reflex did with pt, and has always been doing fine with fox and mk. Yes, we do realize there is hardly anyone else out there appearing on the radar when it comes to fox."
beating almost all of wcs top players with fox is probably better than most of reflex's accomplishments. And nakat + zeton also does really well. Tkd to fox is not the same as reflex to pt.

ya, i don't like how you're trying to back up something insanely stupid. There is not a single, logical way, to have fox up that high. Every single reason for his movement is contradictory to other movements. He should have been exactly where he was in v4, because nothing significant changed for fox or the characters around fox except for realizing their mistake with pit.
maybe the bbr realized he was better than they thought? Oh, yeah the only reason a character can rise on the tier list is because of tourney accomplishments. Oh wait fox has accomplishments. Oh, tkd uses mk on cps and against bad mus so that doesn't count.

1234567890

 

[Fuujin]

I agree.

Also your Zelda is snazzy.

No way, I don't get top 8 at tournaments with 113 people with her.
I have no right to agree to such a statement.

 

[-Mars-]

DK should most likely be above him. Peach should be. ROB is debatable.

And I would be complaining about it if they hadn't stated potential, because then there would have been no reasoning at all, and would have managed to (somehow) look worse.

Fox has done nothing to deserve the raise. Not a single thing. Nothing has changed from tier list v4 to tier list v5 to make Fox able to move up. If there is no reason to do so, don't make up random crap to move him up, particularly if said crap contradicts what you've said to move down other characters. That's just common sense.

"Pit moved down because the potential we saw never really existed. BTW, we're moving up Fox partly because of potential."

"PT moved down because it was too much Reflex, and next to nothing from anyone else. BTW, we're move up Fox partly because of a guy who has done less with the character than Reflex did with PT, and has always been doing fine with Fox and MK. Yes, we do realize there is hardly anyone else out there appearing on the radar when it comes to Fox."

Ya, I don't like how you're trying to back up something insanely stupid. There is not a single, logical way, to have Fox up that high. Every single reason for his movement is contradictory to other movements. He should have been exactly where he was in v4, because nothing significant changed for Fox or the characters around Fox except for realizing their mistake with Pit.

Beating DEHF, Tyrant etc. with Fox is doing nothing? Can a Peach or a Pit or a DK say they have wins against national level players of that caliber?

When you beat big names it turns heads.

I understand that tournament results aren't the ultimate deciding factor in a tier list, but sorry bruh wins like that are not going to be ignored....simple as that.

 

[Chuee]

Beating DEHF, Tyrant etc. with Fox is doing nothing? Can a Peach or a Pit or a DK say they have wins against national level players of that caliber?

When you beat big names it turns heads. It doesn't really matter what you think.

Not to mention that TKD lives in Mexico and doesn't travel as much. Though at almost every US tourney he's been to recently hes beaten top players.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

No way, I don't get top 8 at tournaments with 113 people with her.
I have no right to agree to such a statement.

You are hands down the best Zelda I've played against, even if your placing don't show it.

You have every right to have a snazzy Zelda.

Beating DEHF, Tyrant etc. with Fox is doing nothing? Can a Peach or a Pit or a DK say they have wins against national level players of that caliber?

When you beat big names it turns heads.

I understand that tournament results aren't the ultimate deciding factor in a tier list, but sorry bruh wins like that are not going to be ignored....simple as that.

Ook has beaten HAZE for DK, LLod beat Nario on the AiB pro ladder for Peach, wifi but still.

I think it's foolhardy to say they have done nothing. I don't even think he used Fox on Atmosk at all.

 

[Fuujin]

You are hands down the best Zelda I've played against, even if your placing don't show it.

You have every right to have a snazzy Zelda.

I was being sarcastic lol
I got 33 out of 113 at siis3(my second tournament) and some dude at the Zelda boards was saying I should have gotten top 8.
Thank you though.

 

[Psychoace]

Isn't Ally like the only good Falcon? All others are just jab grab dthrow knee falcon punch lolyoutubecombo Falcons.

There are good people in Finland? cwutididthar?

Anyway

No. That's most of the falcons on the character discussion. Good falcons don't bother with that ****.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

*hates people who reply inside my quote so I can't quote their post to respond to them*

@Chuee: In case you didn't notice: I wasn't talking just results. Heck, the word "results" never comes up once in my post. There weren't any metagame advances. No breakthroughs with how to play the character. No new, even minor ATs (I'm talking "hey, we forgot we can buff for CGs" level of new "ATs" like Pikachu), no changes in MUs. Just...nothing except over inflated "potential" hype.

And yes, no matter what, because TKD uses MK as well as Fox in tournaments, it does hamper his achievements if you want to look at pure tournament placements. Sorry, but you can't consider Fox/MK par with just Fox when it comes to winning tournaments. It must be a lessor achievement when looking at it from a "results for Fox" point of view. Impossible to have the two as even weight. If it's even weight, pros should have fun screwing up the tier list by winning the occasional match with some random character during tournament. Why not, it's like they were using that random character the whole time after all!

@Mars: First of all *points to Ryu's post*. Secondly: TKD was already doing that type of thing before v5. Why does it suddenly matter now, more so than say Pikachu learning he has a bunch of new CG material which actually, you know, alters MUs a bit. He didn't shoot up that much when this was discovered, and Pikachu had ESAM/Anther going out there and taking out big names.

 

[Ripple]

lol at whoever said DK will never be good with infinites allowed

you must be avoiding MLG results on purpose to say something that naive

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

@Niddo:

NO WAY is Peach better than Fox. I'm sorry, but Fox actually manages high-level placings against good players in strong regions placings, and Peach has seriously NEVER done this, the fact that Peach is still 19 is generous.

I love Peach and play her often (in tourney sometimes!) and believe that somewhere in there, there's a good character trying to get out, but it's been a few years now and it still hasn't happened. Why are we still giving her the benefit of the doubt?

 

[-Mars-]

Gimme some names.

 

[Steam]

@Niddo:

NO WAY is Peach better than Fox. I'm sorry, but Fox actually manages high placings from time to time and Peach has seriously NEVER done this, the fact that Peach is still 19 is generous.

I love Peach and play her often (in tourney sometimes!) and believe that somewhere in there, there's a good character trying to get out, but it's been a few years now and it still hasn't happened. Why are we still giving her the benefit of the doubt?

THISSSSSSSS

/caps

 

[Ripple]

Gimme some names.

Will. beats inui, fatal, atomsk, and vinnie?

cable. same as will but in doubles and does better

Dr. grandpa. recently got 5th or 7th at a huge east coast tournament.

 

[Exceladon City]

@Niddo:

NO WAY is Peach better than Fox. I'm sorry, but Fox actually manages high-level placings against good players in strong regions placings, and Peach has seriously NEVER done this, the fact that Peach is still 19 is generous.

I love Peach and play her often (in tourney sometimes!) and believe that somewhere in there, there's a good character trying to get out, but it's been a few years now and it still hasn't happened. Why are we still giving her the benefit of the doubt?

inb4thepeachofdarkness

 

[-Mars-]

Not as impressive as beating players like DEHF or Tyrant. Of course DK is a character that can be better than Fox.

Just please no talk of Peach or something dumb like that.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

No, seriously, I just want to post again that anyone who thinks Peach is better than Fox is delusional or doesn't pay attention to what's actually happening in tournaments. The fact that Yoshi, who is a legit threat in strong regions, is low tier and placing better than Peach, says a lot. Peach players are talented and they enter tournaments and place like top 20 or 48th or something and say "It's cool I'll get you next time" but next time never EVER comes because Peach is BAD.

I am also not afraid of dark in this thread cause he and I are friends and play a lot. I know Peach as a character better than most of you and get ***** by his Peach a lot, and my character even outright loses to Peach, but she's still not good.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I've seen Peach (slightly) more in results overall than Fox. I also believe (from the top of my head, I very well could be wrong on this), she has a slightly better MU spread, due to not having a MU like Fox vs Sheik or Fox vs Pikachu. MK vs Peach is close to that level, but not quite as bad. Seeing as neither really destroy a character not named Ganondorf, that's rather important.

 

[-Mars-]

Hmmmmmm. Fox running into Pikachu & Sheik.....or Peach running into MK.

yea.

 

[Chuee]

I've seen Peach (slightly) more in results overall than Fox. I also believe (from the top of my head, I very well could be wrong on this), she has a slightly better MU spread, due to not having a MU like Fox vs Sheik or Fox vs Pikachu. MK vs Peach is close to that level, but not quite as bad. Seeing as neither really destroy a character not named Ganondorf, that's rather important.

That doesn't really matter when Peach's worst MUs are top tier characters that you'll likely run into in a tournament, while Fox's are high tiers (1 top) that aren't common in tournaments.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I've seen Peach (slightly) more in results overall than Fox. I also believe (from the top of my head, I very well could be wrong on this), she has a slightly better MU spread, due to not having a MU like Fox vs Sheik or Fox vs Pikachu. MK vs Peach is close to that level, but not quite as bad. Seeing as neither really destroy a character not named Ganondorf, that's rather important.

What.

OK, I'll give you that on the surface, Peach's results seem a little better because there are like 500,000 Peach fanboys that play her all making the occasional top 8 result in bad regions, but there is not a single Peach who has managed to take a set away from a top MK player. I can't even really remember the last time a top Peach like Nicole, Kyon, etc. took a set away from a top player that wasn't a low tier. I can't remember the last time Peach took #1 in any tournament (has that even happened?) nor can I remember the time Peach took top 10 at a regional, even with a strong secondary to take care of her worst match-up (which is MK, by the way, lol).

Honestly, results matter a lot more when they're against strong players of good characters in powerful regions.

Peach players are perfectly skilled and fine, their character is bad. If she isn't, they need to step it up, because Peach's results are really bad compared to many characters in her tier level, and even one or two who are ranked much worse.

Statistics lie in this case because it matters a lot more who/what Peach beat than what she placed. There's a reason Peach players can't really place in Atlantic North or SoCal. There's a reason they don't really place super-well in TX, despite the fact that there's a really strong Peach player down there who is generally considered to be a very good player.

Hmmmmmm. Fox running into Pikachu & Sheik.....or Peach running into MK.

yea.

Uh yeah this.

 

[Ripple]

so.....yoshi is the new peach?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Yoshi is probably better than Peach and much of D tier. At least Yoshi makes results happen sometimes.

 

[deepseadiva]

Nicole beat Affinity recently. :o

 

[-Mars-]

NAh Son people just don't know the matchup!!!!!!!!!!

Edit: Affinity????? lololololololololololol get real.

 

[Ussi]

Not as impressive as beating players like DEHF or Tyrant. Of course DK is a character that can be better than Fox.

Just please no talk of Peach or something dumb like that.

Know what character beat national players like DEHF and Tyrant?

and with two different players while we're at it

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

That's because Sonic is C tier.

 

[-Mars-]

Being above ROB, Peach, Pit etc. garbage characters who haven't done anything in years is not much of a stretch. Like honestly which of the characters below Fox deserve to be higher than him....with the exception of Sonic?

Maybe DK. Definitely not Peach. ROB is debateable. Pit is just as "unproven" as you think Fox is. Wolf sucks.

So yea I don't get it it's like you guys are complaining just to complain about something.

In fact if they hadn't used the "P" word and just moved him up because they has power and is the BBR you guys probably would be fine with it.

Bruh bruh.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

LOL, the list of characters who are actual tournament threats is pretty small and doesn't even include a lot of characters in B/C tier.

In no order:

MK, Snake, Diddy, Falco, Sonic, ZSS, Yoshi, Ike, Marth, Fox, Olimar, Pikachu, Game and Watch, Ice Climbers, Donkey Kong, Lucario, sometimes Dedede.

Did I miss anyone? If your character isn't one of these, it probably hasn't placed at anything important in a while.

 

[BSP]

Finally someone sees it...people need to stop with this benefit of the doubt.

 

[-Mars-]

You forgot Kirby. Or well Chu I should say.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I'm sure I didn't remember every character, but I must say this: the amount of times I've seen Chu land moves other than bair and fsmash is pretty low.