Official BBR Matchup Chart v1.0

[Yikarur]

Metaknight? O_o........

I talked about the general ledge options, ledge get-up, ledge roll, ledge jump, ledge attack.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Rich Brown didn't need to change character to beat this...

Well, he needed to do -something- different, because he -lost.-

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Uh, I so I was looking over the WHOBO 3 rules and saw this:

Stalling:

Stalling: The act of deliberately avoiding any and all conflict so that one may make the game unplayable. Running away from an opponent to reach a better position is not stalling. Plainking is a perfect example. If i see it, you WILL lose your ENTIRE SET. No warnings! Play, dont gay.

Will did break a rule. He is clearly planking. Had Xyro seen it, he would have been disqualified. So, really I'm not even sure why this is an issue.


EDIT. OK, I see that Xyro just sucks at writing things.

Still, though, if Xyro was able to use the word "planking" here to say that it is explicitly allowed, why can't we just say "planking is banned" and be done with it?

ALSO, after watching the set, RB was being pretty stupid. He could have just hogged the ledge and forced Will to land on the stage, then punished with any ledge-hopped aerial. He actually attempted this late in the game and messed up and died, but it isn't really that risky.

So to me this is actually a lot to do over nothing, there are more unbeatable planking methods in freaking melee and they're allowed and no one ever complains this hard.

 

[Spelt]

Xyro obviously meant planking as MK...

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Xyro obviously meant planking as MK...

No. Actually, Xyro intended to classify planking as running away to reach a better position but worded it a bit weirdly.

That's not really relevant though. The point is, if Xyro can use the word "planking" in this context without defining it in some haughty way (like, just assuming the community knows what it means and expressly permitting it) I don't see why it can't be expressly banned. "Planking is banned. If you do it and I see it, you will lose your set. I don't care if you don't know what it is, or think I'm wrong: you're out. So the easiest way to avoid conflicts here is to just not abuse planking." Ban it in the same assumptive draconian fashion it was allowed, if you're going to ban it at all.

I still think RB just failed to adapt though, and that Xyro's rules were fine. Will gave him multiple chances to punish and really all he had to do was grab the ledge and force will to up+b onto the stage and then uair him. Meta Knight's planking only works because even if you take the ledge from him, he has 6 jumps, transcendent aerials, two glides, tornado and drill rush; hogging the ledge doesn't force a position out of him. With DK, it does. This is really a lot of whining over nothing.

 

[Spelt]

running away to reach a better position isn't stalling.
so why would he word it like that if he was trying to say it wasn't allowed...?

And that's like trying to ban ice climbers chain grabs. Yes, we know what chain grabs are, but ice climbers can easily just do dthrow > fair, hobble, or just grab release a few times. boom, not chain grabbing anymore.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Actually, a main reason that will vs RB is a big deal is because it is in a match with 2 top players. If a top level player planks a lower level player, it is just the lower level player's inability to think of a way to get off. If you are a top player and have 8 minutes to figure something out, you will. RB tried different things and they failed. That is why it is a big deal.

BTW, there are only like 7 characters that can't deal with Planking:

Fox
Wolf
Falco
Ganon
IC
Diddy
Olimar

Everybody else can deal with it basically fine.

 

[John12346]

I would think that ICs, Diddy, and Olimar would be able to stop planking. Well, DK's, in any case...

ICs with Ice Blocks
Diddy with Nanerz thrown straight down from above
And Olimar with Fsmash

Rich only tried like 10 Fsmashes that whole match, and only about 4 of them made it over the edge, but completely missed the window of time where DK is vulnerable.

 

[Hylian]

IC's can stop certain characters planking but can't really do much to mk if he is planking perfectly(they almost always mess up and get hit though) and they can't really do much to pikachu. I've never had problems stopping pits planking, GW might be able to plank them, I'm not sure though no one has ever tried it on me.

 

[Juushichi]

Isn't it ironic that among the characters who can't deal with planking, four of them are among the top of the metagame. Jury is still out on Fox/Wolf, but they're certainly still appearing to be mostly viable.

Only non viable character is Ganon, but he's got tons of problems.

 

[Yikarur]

BTW, there are only like 7 characters that can't deal with Planking:

Fox
Wolf
Falco
Ganon
IC
Diddy
Olimar

Everybody else can deal with it basically fine.

CF, Yoshi, Lucario, DK etc?
I don't know what your criteria for "basically fine" is o_o

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I'm pretty sure he means non-Meta Knight planking.

Captain Falcon has the aerial mobility, solid range, and a wall jump to help, usually.

While we're at it, I'd say that Ice Climbers, Diddy, Wolf, and Olimar can, as well...People just need to step their game up.

The other characters -can- stop it, but can't do it reliably due to their options in aerials and/or recovery.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

CF, Yoshi, Lucario, DK etc?
I don't know what your criteria for "basically fine" is o_o

Dair solves most planking because it outrange most aerials below him, yes even MK's Uair.

But it doesn't mean anything to MK if he planks correctly, because it will take Lucario too much time to actually hit him perfect planking.

DK planking on Yoshi's, Lucario can answer it. Dair hits twice, but it's out and in with in 4 frames, so if DK is vulnerable within 10 frames of him starting his Dair, he'll hit him.

DK planking sure, MK planking nope.

 

[Poltergust]

Yikarur, Yoshi's perfectly fine dealing with basically every character's planking besides Meta Knight.

Real talk I get angry even looking at this post LOL

you just make people rage

 

[lordhelmet]

Falcon can beat some planking with up-tilt.

Otherwise you have to jump off the stage and hit them with a uair or up-b. :|

 

[Yikarur]

how? throwing eggs?

 

[Poltergust]

Yes, throwing eggs. Depending on the character, d-air can also work.

You could also just run off, instant edge-hog, then perform an aerial while you're still invincible.

 

[Krystedez]

Judo, Polt, you guys are being REEEEAAAAL mature pointing fingers at eachother about the discussion. Try to keep it civil.

Judo, you know better. I played you in real life and that sealed the deal, but you've never gimped Pit out of WoI like you said you could. Instead, you're just good off-stage with your character period, and you can't hold anything against Polt for being ignorant like I was to these minor details that you pull out of your *** during a good match. Essentially, you are right that Sheik can get up fast to Pit, but Yoshi himself has better aerial mobility than Pit, so at least consider that too. (Plus, I'm like the only Pit that sits up there dumbly shooting arrows while you jump at the speed of light to attack me)

Polt, you shouldn't try to be so slick with how you deal with these discussions, you're trying too hard, and essentially you could accomplish your goal of letting everyone know how much you were bullied by everyone else in other panels by saying "people underestimate yoshi. I main yoshi". End of story.

Here, let me try: I'm the only full-time Pit main in the backroom (besides Ravyn in Florida, whom mains/plays multiple characters in tournament). I picked up Pit back in August and did well with him in bracket. I been playing nothing but Pit since then except at my own smallish tourney.

Now hug eachother and give eachother sweet needle-tongue death-kisses.

 

[Espy Rose]

Rich Brown didn't need to change character to beat this...

This.

Actually, a main reason that will vs RB is a big deal is because it is in a match with 2 top players. If a top level player planks a lower level player, it is just the lower level player's inability to think of a way to get off. If you are a top player and have 8 minutes to figure something out, you will. RB tried different things and they failed. That is why it is a big deal.

Wrong. He failed to figure it out because he didn't try enough options. John numbers pretty much described it in one of the posts above this one. Above that, there are points that Donkey Kong has during his "planking" that are vulnerable.

And player prestige should be irrelevant. What matters here is the action itself, not who it happens to.

Rich only tried like 10 Fsmashes that whole match, and only about 4 of them made it over the edge, but completely missed the window of time where DK is vulnerable.

Agreed. I believe I recall Cake telling me that Yellow Pikmin fsmash would be Rich's best option, but that he'd have to time it to connect with DK. Rich simply failed to time it properly, and he paid the price for that.

 

[Poltergust]

Krystedez, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by me getting bullied.

I'm just stating what happened with the discussion.

 

[_Kain_]

This.



Wrong. He failed to figure it out because he didn't try enough options. John numbers pretty much described it in one of the posts above this one. Above that, there are points that Donkey Kong has during his "planking" that are vulnerable.

And player prestige should be irrelevant. What matters here is the action itself, not who it happens to.



Agreed. I believe I recall Cake telling me that Yellow Pikmin fsmash would be Rich's best option, but that he'd have to time it to connect with DK. Rich simply failed to time it properly, and he paid the price for that.

The timing is not that easy and from what I saw Pikmin Fsmash wasn't even working cause they just got killed by the Up B everytime. There was other things he could of done though

 

[Krystedez]

You were pretty condescending when we were discussing the Yoshi vs. Sheik match-up.

You got pretty angry during the discussion, though.

To be honest, I really can't see Sheik having a +1 over Yoshi anymore. Still, that's for another time.

Felt like you were complaining to me. Sorry, just how I see it.

 

[Poltergust]

Oh, that? Nah, I was just pointing out what happened. It's not big deal.

 

[John12346]

The timing is not that easy and from what I saw Pikmin Fsmash wasn't even working cause they just got killed by the Up B everytime. There was other things he could of done though

Kain, rewatch the video, if you notice, one of the Fsmashes actually landed a phantom hit.

I'm gonna test to see if Olimar Fsmash can beat DK planking later today, anyway.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I wonder if he can beat planking with stages that have a lip like FD, Halberd, etc.

 

[_Kain_]

Kain, rewatch the video, if you notice, one of the Fsmashes actually landed a phantom hit.

I'm gonna test to see if Olimar Fsmash can beat DK planking later today, anyway.

Oh yeah I saw that but I'm saying people are making it seem like Fsmash is a reliable way to stop planking when you have to take into account how long a fsmash takes to come out and to drop below the ledge to get the hit. It's not as practical as people are making it seem

 

[Pierce7d]

Oh, is that the topic on hand, lemme pull up what I posted on YT. Here a link to the video for reference. I just finally saw it myself this morning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0r0DkNiqxc&feature=channel_video_title

Okay, so lemme get this straight . . .

Rich Brown landed two grabs on Will. Both times where with Pikman that he could not K.O. him (white then red). Additionally he opted NOT to Dthrow or Uthrow him, which would've made edgeguarding MUCH more viable.

After Will started Planking, he had 106%, so he could NOT use DK's broken get up attack (below 100%).

Rich did manage to score the edge multiple times from Will, but made little to no attempts to hit him each time.


Although I have yet to test this myself, Rich did not try to do a falling invincible Uair, which can be then followed up by a rising Uair. I somehow doubt DK's planking would withstand two Uairs, and Uair has the most priority of all of Olimar's attacks.

This was done on Yoshi's Island. Rich's attempts to use the support ghost where very half-hearted. Two purple throws, and then an immediate retreat. If he thought DK would Bair, he could block and punish. If not, he had TWO MORE PURPLES.

Lastly, the ONE TIME Rich tried Dair, it CONNECTED.

While I do think planking is really gay, I think people exaggerated this match extremely.

 

[John12346]

Oh yeah I saw that but I'm saying people are making it seem like Fsmash is a reliable way to stop planking when you have to take into account how long a fsmash takes to come out and to drop below the ledge to get the hit. It's not as practical as people are making it seem

Well, I know how long Olimar's Fsmash takes to reach the ledge, but Olimar has a theoretical infinite amount of Fsmashes, and he can put them out with a pretty quick frequency. Even if it's not reliable, I could still imagine it connecting at times.

Also what Pierce said.

 

[_Kain_]

Well, I know how long Olimar's Fsmash takes to reach the ledge, but Olimar has a theoretical infinite amount of Fsmashes, and he can put them out with a pretty quick frequency. Even if it's not reliable, I could still imagine it connecting at times.

Also what Pierce said.

I'm not arguing that he couldn't of done anything else pretty sure I posted somewhere earlier that the match is overrated cause he could of done many things. I'm just disagreeing with people thinking Fsmash would of worked them nuggas were just getting killed and it seems like something that is pretty easy to react too by dropping down then Up Bing on reaction to kill them

 

[John12346]

Well, it'd be pretty risky because if you wait too long, your invincibility will wear off, won't it?

 

[_Kain_]

Well, it'd be pretty risky because if you wait too long, your invincibility will wear off, won't it?

You should just test it and see and tell me the results cause I'm also pretty curious to find out now

 

[Seagull Joe]

Actually, a main reason that will vs RB is a big deal is because it is in a match with 2 top players. If a top level player planks a lower level player, it is just the lower level player's inability to think of a way to get off. If you are a top player and have 8 minutes to figure something out, you will. RB tried different things and they failed. That is why it is a big deal.

BTW, there are only like 7 characters that can't deal with Planking:

Fox
Wolf
Falco
Ganon
IC
Diddy
Olimar

Everybody else can deal with it basically fine.

Falcon, Sheik, Zelda, Wario?

Also, Wolf could've up b'd straight down vs Dk's up b thing to stop it, which would case a clank and then Wolf could shine spike probably .

Parasolic shine bombing also could've beaten Will's up b planking since this was on Yi.

 

[Teh Future]

WTF wolf has a tech called shine BOMB?!??!?!? amazing looks like i have a new main

 

[Laem]

its parasolic shine bombing
ITS AMAAAAAAAZING

ganon > any kind of planking
no sane person would dare to defy his dair.

 

[Teh Future]

**** this must be why I always loose to Kain and holms

your secrets are revealed!!!!!!!

 

[Chuee]

Falcon, Sheik, Zelda, Wario?

Also, Wolf could've up b'd straight down vs Dk's up b thing to stop it, which would case a clank and then Wolf could shine spike probably .

Parasolic shine bombing also could've beaten Will's up b planking since this was on Yi.

Yeah, theres probably more than only 7.

Parasolic shine bombing?
:O

 

[Deleted member]

It's why Delfino is amazing for Wolf.

 

[AlanHaTe]

I can't think of a way Zelda can deal with planking...

Din's Fire sucks and it would probably clash with anything making it not that useful...

Dair too slow and laggy, lacks priority and sweetspot too small, making it even harder because if you sourspot (% dependant) just moves the othr char like 3 pixels and has almost no hitstun x_x

Ledge Warping/Teleport Cancel may be the "best" option but still I don't think it's that good =/

That's all I can think of right now...

I there's another option that actually works I'd like to know it ASAP. That would be awesome and will help Zelda =D

 

[Krystedez]

Wario has tires and bike. . . TWO tires... and bike... TWO TIRES, BIKE, and his FAT !@$#ING BODY.

Jesus christ (sighs)

 

[Steam]

Also, Wolf could've up b'd straight down vs Dk's up b thing to stop it, which would case a clank and then Wolf could shine spike probably .

Not risky at all