isthattim?
Smash Ace
i reckon the scene is bigger than 20.
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[NSW] Western Sydney Dramacraft: The home of drama!
- Thread starter tedeth
- Start date
tedeth
Smash Master
Yeah TO's was the original idea for the panel.
We did discuss the rankings in America but, obviously, all that we discussed was the rankings based on skills and performances of players before we left including ourselves.
We did discuss the rankings in America but, obviously, all that we discussed was the rankings based on skills and performances of players before we left including ourselves.
swordsaint
Smash Master
I think that with the tournament your planning ted, the rankings should be based off that for the baseline. Consider the fact that people will be trying to take other players spots anyway, it's going to change and become more accurate soon anyway.
tedeth
Smash Master
you can't base power rankings off 1 tourney. That goes against the entire point of them. The idea is to have power rankings based on tourneys over the past 3-4 months.
EverAlert
Smash Master
I like the idea of Power Rankings. I was hearing a little of the discussion/planning for it in America and it seems like it's quite solidly thought out. Just need to get it started.
I don't think the fact that we have power rankings means there's less focus on "more important" things like community growth. The community will grow as it does, it's still up to us to raise awareness or whatever. Power Rankings are something for the existing community to participate in, I don't believe it will exclude those not already in the community.
IMO we should make the initial rankings after the next tourney, obviously using data from all tourneys over the previous 3-4 months as Ted said. HOW people improve between tourneys (whether it be by going to another country and playing loads of people 100x better than you, or going to a friend's place and just playing that person for a day) is not the business of the panelists or the rankings. Over time it'll become apparent who's better and who's improved by how much. Finding that out is the POINT of Power Rankings, there's no need to delay it until we personally "find out" ourselves.
I don't think the fact that we have power rankings means there's less focus on "more important" things like community growth. The community will grow as it does, it's still up to us to raise awareness or whatever. Power Rankings are something for the existing community to participate in, I don't believe it will exclude those not already in the community.
IMO we should make the initial rankings after the next tourney, obviously using data from all tourneys over the previous 3-4 months as Ted said. HOW people improve between tourneys (whether it be by going to another country and playing loads of people 100x better than you, or going to a friend's place and just playing that person for a day) is not the business of the panelists or the rankings. Over time it'll become apparent who's better and who's improved by how much. Finding that out is the POINT of Power Rankings, there's no need to delay it until we personally "find out" ourselves.
swordsaint
Smash Master
It's only a baseline. It'll change and become more accurate as time passes anyway. Considering how people went to America and increased their skill. Any tournament results over the past few months will very likely, be wrong.
Although the idea of power rankings is always good in intention, it generally never works out.
I'm not saying that you should stop, but rather that they are hard to manage and generally get forgotten about.
That's what happened the last 4 times we tried to do it lol.
I'm not saying that you should stop, but rather that they are hard to manage and generally get forgotten about.
That's what happened the last 4 times we tried to do it lol.
swordsaint
Smash Master
Queensland sucks though. Get out of our thread. <3
To contribute further...
Power Rankings is based on the ATTEMPT to take tournament results, which don't factor in 'chaos', as subjective as that would be, and with the help of the panelists try and deduce that to a list of 'the rankings of the best players'.
for example, a guy who usually comes top 5 in tournaments the day of a tournament breaks his pinky or some ****, NO JOHNS (maybe?) but that one tournament he came like 15th. Obviously this guy really actually sucks and in the next power rankings he shouldn't even be in the top 10 because he sucks... RIGHT GUYS?
It takes tournament results to a deeper level. It's not just about the placements in the tournament, it's about who you PLAYED in the tournament and how you did against those players.
If Scoot gets first or second at every tournament that Shaya, tcranter or S.D don't show up to, but when all three are there can struggle to get top 8; whilst he shows that a 'scene's metagame' of players without some powerhouses he does well, yet those players he beats do same or better WITH the powerhouses, it would lead the panelists to conclude that in the toughest conditions those who lose to scoot but do well against 'us' may be better in the power rankings.
Yes we thought that the 4 TOs should be the panelists, and the 3 of us in the United States discussed what we thought the rankings of the 10 players we'll put in the power rankings should be. If the 4 panelists reign true, Zero will give some input and we'll go from there.
Also, we hope to release a list before the next tournament to be based on pre-genesis.
Things like character choices are not included.
Power Rankings are players only, and like a 'tier list' are to be argued placements by their 'highest level play'... blah b lah blah.
Q?
Power Rankings is based on the ATTEMPT to take tournament results, which don't factor in 'chaos', as subjective as that would be, and with the help of the panelists try and deduce that to a list of 'the rankings of the best players'.
for example, a guy who usually comes top 5 in tournaments the day of a tournament breaks his pinky or some ****, NO JOHNS (maybe?) but that one tournament he came like 15th. Obviously this guy really actually sucks and in the next power rankings he shouldn't even be in the top 10 because he sucks... RIGHT GUYS?
It takes tournament results to a deeper level. It's not just about the placements in the tournament, it's about who you PLAYED in the tournament and how you did against those players.
If Scoot gets first or second at every tournament that Shaya, tcranter or S.D don't show up to, but when all three are there can struggle to get top 8; whilst he shows that a 'scene's metagame' of players without some powerhouses he does well, yet those players he beats do same or better WITH the powerhouses, it would lead the panelists to conclude that in the toughest conditions those who lose to scoot but do well against 'us' may be better in the power rankings.
Yes we thought that the 4 TOs should be the panelists, and the 3 of us in the United States discussed what we thought the rankings of the 10 players we'll put in the power rankings should be. If the 4 panelists reign true, Zero will give some input and we'll go from there.
Also, we hope to release a list before the next tournament to be based on pre-genesis.
Things like character choices are not included.
Power Rankings are players only, and like a 'tier list' are to be argued placements by their 'highest level play'... blah b lah blah.
Q?
Of course.
There's a reason why there's more than one panelist to avoid the bias in this regard as well.
There's a reason why there's more than one panelist to avoid the bias in this regard as well.
EverAlert
Smash Master
Hmm. I thought making a list after the next tourney would be a good idea for organisation's sake, so that a list isn't made completely out of the blue.
But making one beforehand to avoid the Genesis/Evo confusion is a far better idea. Good ****, looking forward to it. :3
But making one beforehand to avoid the Genesis/Evo confusion is a far better idea. Good ****, looking forward to it. :3
tedeth
Smash Master
Yes they are. But the fact that it's a panel of 4 makes it harder for them to boost themselves because the other panelists may disagree.
tedeth
Smash Master
Yay they found my bag! It's being delivered to me. 
isthattim?
Smash Ace
ooooh, double post, cao's gonna be sooooo mad
now for some constructive input: are power rankings going to be used to seed pools y/n
cos imo that's a really good reason to care about them but also may lead to people constantly complaining/ getting too serious about them
now for some constructive input: are power rankings going to be used to seed pools y/n
cos imo that's a really good reason to care about them but also may lead to people constantly complaining/ getting too serious about them
tedeth
Smash Master
That is a good idea. The other way we can use them is to hold true "Amateur" tourneys which would be tourneys for those outseide the power rankings.
luke_atyeo
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 10, 2008
- Messages
- 7,215
I think toby should be on the panel, sure he's not a TO but he is a great player, he's smart and very perceptive and analytical, also he's one to put logic before bias.
maybe a panel of 5?
maybe a panel of 5?
Yo kids, I hear we have a place to discuss something like PR management.
tedeth
Smash Master
That's not the point Zero. The point is for the panelists to discuss the rankings untill they agree.
S.D
Smash Master
We don't really have the numbers to support true 'amateur' events imo. If time permits and those people are also included in the tournaments proper then I say it might be a viable option. Panelists are gunna have to check out loads of players to come to decisions on this.
tedeth
Smash Master
I already do that.
Toby.
Smash Master
ooooh excitement!
I would gladly be on the panel if people are cool with it. If people don't think I deserve it I would also understand, since I'm not a TO.
Happy birthday teddy bear.
MWHAHAAHA
I would gladly be on the panel if people are cool with it. If people don't think I deserve it I would also understand, since I'm not a TO.
Happy birthday teddy bear.
MWHAHAAHA
swordsaint
Smash Master
I think Toby definately is deserving but I just think TO's are more appropriate. Though I'd say Toby > shaya since I can imagine Shaya being bias. =P
Yeah, I was pretty biased when I allowed others to vote myself over scoot <3.
Sylvan
Smash Apprentice
It's really hard to get a good representation of skill, just based on data. Some people can play entire tournaments and never fight each other, yet one will be ranked higher and the other lower. There are many different ways of interperating raw data.
My understanding of power rankings, is that people take a look at how well players are preforming, and rate them based off that.
In a power ranking, people can theoretically lose a battle, but still be ranked up (I think, lol, I'm no expert here XD) For example if someone is clearly winning a match against peach, but every item peach pulls out is a bomb, and then the peach just wins by just a few % Then clearly, there is something wrong with the match, and the non-peach person shouldn't be ranked down for this. Yet in a tourney, someone could legitimately win like this, which would affect normal rankings.
Too goodz Sylvanpro.
I vote Sylvan for the Panel.
I vote Sylvan for the Panel.
Sylvan
Smash Apprentice
lulz, I'd just rank people on how many times they use the same move in a battle. More times = higher rank
=P
EverAlert
Smash Master
I wasn't talking about using it for Power Rankings.
I LAG
Smash Lord
ok i just got home and read the last few pages
and your talking about POWA RANKINGS and how we need more meets and tourneys and maybe sponsors and also we need a larger seen
fill me in if i missed anything
also would you guys like a wifi night again this sunday?
and your talking about POWA RANKINGS and how we need more meets and tourneys and maybe sponsors and also we need a larger seen
fill me in if i missed anything
also would you guys like a wifi night again this sunday?
tedeth
Smash Master
So apparently there are a few melee players that live relatively close to me. I'm hoping to get them to my next tourney.
Speaking of my next tourney, I'm thinking late August. Either the 23rd or the 30th.
Speaking of my next tourney, I'm thinking late August. Either the 23rd or the 30th.
isthattim?
Smash Ace
did anyone from smashboards actually participate?
swordsaint
Smash Master
Yeah it was fun.
I vote the 30th since I'm at stigma B on the 23rd.
I vote the 30th since I'm at stigma B on the 23rd.
Hello, I just came to Australis from the states. Im at CSU(Bathurst) and I was looking for people nearby or people in Sydney to play. Only brawl, im no good at melee. Im looking forward to meeting/playing you guys so if there are any tournies or meets that I find out about Ill do my best to show up if I can.
swordsaint
Smash Master
This is good. We welcome you Don!