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Norcal/Bay Area/DBR:NorCal Nevers: Everything in Moderation. Including Moderation.

frotaz37

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 19, 2003
Messages
1,523
Location
Forest of Feelings
Pretty much everyone knew how to L cancel and wavedash and all the little technical things from melee...what, 4+ years before the game's peak?

And now people hate brawl cause it's not deep enough? Melee stopped being technically deep years ago, the past 4 years of melee have been nothing but strategy changes and mindgames. Honestly, when was the last time a match between good players was decided by tech skill? When was a match decided by a wavedash, or an L cancel? I can't even remember.

Evo is picking up brawl, everyone is picking up brawl. The fact of the matter is, restricting NCB to melee only will do nothing but destroy a huge chance NorCal has to improve greatly at Brawl, which other people will continue to do, no matter how much certain people say "melee is better".

And at the end of the day, let's be honest. If you're gonna say brawl sucks, let's not forget about how bad melee is. There are 4 characters you can pick, otherwise you lose. One of them can chain grab half of the other characters, the other two can laser camp everyone but themselves, and the other one has more range on his attacks than anyone else in the game. Fun? ...questionable. Melee has become more and more of a pattern game, because people learn what works, and because certain characters are so godly, it doesn't matter if you know what they're going to do, because it's still going to work. Yeah, I know this falco is going to laser camp me. It doesn't matter, cause it doesn't make it any easier to deal with.

I seriously feel like people hate brawl for all the wrong reasons. Wow, you can't approach the exact same way over and over and have it work? Instead of using your heads, you'd rather go back to the mindlessness of melee? Sweet, laser laser down air. Good fun.

I'm not saying brawl is perfect, but the fact that so many people are judging a games full potential based on a month of play, well, it's starting to annoy me. It's a much more mental game, just cause you can't hide the fact that your mental game sucks behind tech skill, doesn't mean the game is bad.

It just means you have to learn to ****ing play.
 

NeighborhoodP

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 24, 2006
Messages
8,199
Location
SoCal
Rofl @ "Melee stopped being technically deep years ago"

Such a laughably farcical opinion. Not that I'd expect anything less.
 

K Balls

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
376
Location
Oakley,CA
i say have some brawl tournaments since i am good at it lol. Melee is better to some people not all. I like brawl better than melee.
 

darkatma

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 10, 2005
Messages
5,747
Location
St Louis, Missouri/Fremont, CA
His point is that by making the most popular tournament scene of Norcal Brawl only, we're both ostracizing ourselves from current competitive play worldwide and refusing to explore the finite aspects of a new smash game.

Look at socal's scene. 10 brawl tournaments in 2 months since the game has been out. Constantly evolving gameplay, constant switching up of characters, and more WTFs happening in tournaments. Forward having his Pit's down B broken and getting OHKOed by a hothead would never have happened if there wasn't a tourny including items, now we know to ban hotheads. Go through their gameplay progression, the community as a whole gets better when we learn from each other. Matches used to be incredibly boring to watch, now they're watchable and more enjoyable, because you don't see a simple exchange of hits anymore. It's more complicated. Melee is old, let it go.
 

KIngGerudo

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 17, 2006
Messages
1,246
Location
Richmond,CA
lets not argue about which is better. personal preference will always take control over this. if you like melee better, continue to play melee and the same goes for brawl but i think the ncb should have both imo. lets just all agree that norcal should be the best SSB:whichever you play in the world. I also did not mention SSB64 because if you dont like 64, theres seriously something wrong with you.
 

frotaz37

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 19, 2003
Messages
1,523
Location
Forest of Feelings
His point is that by making the most popular tournament scene of Norcal Brawl only, we're both ostracizing ourselves from current competitive play worldwide and refusing to explore the finite aspects of a new smash game.

Look at socal's scene. 10 brawl tournaments in 2 months since the game has been out. Constantly evolving gameplay, constant switching up of characters, and more WTFs happening in tournaments. Forward having his Pit's down B broken and getting OHKOed by a hothead would never have happened if there wasn't a tourny including items, now we know to ban hotheads. Go through their gameplay progression, the community as a whole gets better when we learn from each other. Matches used to be incredibly boring to watch, now they're watchable and more enjoyable, because you don't see a simple exchange of hits anymore. It's more complicated. Melee is old, let it go.
Pretty much sums it up.

EDIT: Um, I don't like Smash 64 because holding the N64 controller feels worse than like, vomiting all over your hands.
 

HyugaRicdeau

Baller/Shot-caller
Joined
Jun 4, 2003
Messages
3,883
Location
Portland, OR
Slippi.gg
DRZ#283
Rofl @ "Melee stopped being technically deep years ago"

Such a laughably farcical opinion. Not that I'd expect anything less.
Depends on what you want to think "technically deep" means. The fact is that almost every technical aspect of the metagame was known in 2004-5. Nearly every tech you can think of was known by TG6. People just got better at pushing buttons faster, if that can even be called getting "technically deep." Frames and hitboxes have been known for a really long time. To be sure a lot of little tricks have been invented in the last couple years, like the shield to edgehog of Marth's up B, etc., but the bread and butter of characters' games, almost entirely without exception, has been the same for years now.

His point is that by making the most popular tournament scene of Norcal Brawl only, we're both ostracizing ourselves from current competitive play worldwide and refusing to explore the finite aspects of a new smash game.

Look at socal's scene. 10 brawl tournaments in 2 months since the game has been out. Constantly evolving gameplay, constant switching up of characters, and more WTFs happening in tournaments. Forward having his Pit's down B broken and getting OHKOed by a hothead would never have happened if there wasn't a tourny including items, now we know to ban hotheads. Go through their gameplay progression, the community as a whole gets better when we learn from each other. Matches used to be incredibly boring to watch, now they're watchable and more enjoyable, because you don't see a simple exchange of hits anymore. It's more complicated. Melee is old, let it go.
Agree with basically everything.

But I don't necessarily agree that THAT warrants a ban on hotheads. Sure it sucks but it should just be a thing you have to be aware of.

I also love Frotaz. What the hell is that pic and why wasn't I there.
 

arrowhead

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
723
Location
under a rock
His point is that by making the most popular tournament scene of Norcal Brawl only, we're both ostracizing ourselves from current competitive play worldwide and refusing to explore the finite aspects of a new smash game.

Look at socal's scene. 10 brawl tournaments in 2 months since the game has been out. Constantly evolving gameplay, constant switching up of characters, and more WTFs happening in tournaments. Forward having his Pit's down B broken and getting OHKOed by a hothead would never have happened if there wasn't a tourny including items, now we know to ban hotheads. Go through their gameplay progression, the community as a whole gets better when we learn from each other. Matches used to be incredibly boring to watch, now they're watchable and more enjoyable, because you don't see a simple exchange of hits anymore. It's more complicated.
right attitude

Melee is old, let it go.
wrong attitude
 

whiteboyninja

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Messages
550
Location
Milpitas CA (bay area)
im tired of people telling me that i cant play melee anymore because its old and theres something better out. just stop right now. im not kidding.

ive said it before and im going to say it again. IF SOMEONE WANTS TO HAVE A BRAWL TOURNEY THEN GO HOST ONE!

ive said it before and im going to say it again. I AM OK WITH THERE BEING BRAWL EVENTS AT THE BIWEEKLES. SO STOP ASKING FOR IT I ALREADY SAID OK! BUT ITS NOT A BRAWL TOURNEY...

i havnt said it before, i thought i should bring this up. i probably wont be able to keep these faithful to true biweeklies, they will probably be closer to monthlies, but i'll do my best. come june, it will be easier to keep them every other week.

but back to the point why im saying this, ive just rested my case on the brawl vs. melee disgussion. i will post nothing further about it until the biweekly.

if you care to debate with me, or feel that you can convince me to make this a full on brawl tourney, then please do so via AIM. i will take well to reason, poorly to whining.

sorry if i seemed mad. i sorta was. but ive spoken my peace now and i feel better.
 

NeighborhoodP

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 24, 2006
Messages
8,199
Location
SoCal
Depends on what you want to think "technically deep" means.
Obviously there's a semantical portion in play (as always), but as it relates to depth in Melee, come on now. While what technical things to do may have mostly been figured out, a lot of very useful little tricks have swept the competitive scene that can be seen most glaringly via videos -- playing styles of now are so much more advanced than even a year ago. M2K is the perfect example of this. PC Chris is as well.
 

HyugaRicdeau

Baller/Shot-caller
Joined
Jun 4, 2003
Messages
3,883
Location
Portland, OR
Slippi.gg
DRZ#283
don't get me wrong, I still enjoy melee more than brawl right now, You can't quadruple fair to fsmash a samus with marth for the 23-70% tippered kill :p
You can't do that in Melee if the person knows how to hold a joystick in a direction.

While what technical things to do may have mostly been figured out, a lot of very useful little tricks have swept the competitive scene that can be seen most glaringly via videos -- playing styles of now are so much more advanced than even a year ago. M2K is the perfect example of this. PC Chris is as well.
I agree sort of, but I see them as (generalization alert), not to take away anything from their effectiveness of course, just the result of learning near-perfect execution of known techniques. Of course anytime you improve your execution, you open up more possibilities, so in some sense the book can never be closed on Melee, it will never be closed as long as people are willing to play it competitively. I dunno it's really hard for me to make blanket generalizations about "the way the game is played" so all I can really say is in my experience that's the case, and I've been around town, but to me personally, vids of things 2 years ago look like shi
ttier vids of today.

-

Here's a bedtime story for all you young'ens. Way back in the day, even before yours truly was in the scene (we're talking Scamp era), there was a legendary tournament held on the East Coast called Game Over where Ken defeated Azen in an epic battle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b18ZEXDFYEg the likes of which would not be seen again for some time. It was so named because the general consensus was that all of Melee had been figured out and we'd just be playing the same game over and over at that point, and people would get bored and Melee would wither away. It was just at this time that a young King of all Mewtwos and Prince Charming Chris stepped on to the stage, while on the other side of the world a certain gang of murderers by forced-sex issued a challenge, and a Banacloud-related snubbing meant that Compton Surprise was brewing...

And the rest is history. Take from it what you will. Does it mean that we didn't know jack about Melee even though it had been over 2 years? Maybe. Or maybe it means, yeah, we did figure out Melee on paper, but we were naive about how easy it would be putting into practice, and that's when things started getting interesting? Maybe. Either way, there moral of the bedtime story is, if you think you know everything about Brawl, you don't, and even if you do, you suck at it. For now. Metagames don't come pre-packaged with games, sorry 2006-present people.

This topic is now about cute bunnies.

 

Zoap

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 7, 2004
Messages
3,430
Location
California
that bunny is kinda creepy.

I dont think anyone anywhere said that u couldnt play melee nick <.< >.>. In fact you said we cant play brawl if it becomes to popular.

I dont usually agree wit darkatma, like at all, but god **** he is right lol.

I think Neighborhoodp does a search on frotazs posts.

Did i mention that bunny is ****ing creepy.

Bring Kizzo Back

SF biweeklies arent very fun, SJ is just a better atmosphere.

I like brawl :)

O and hi Frotaz
 

Zoap

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 7, 2004
Messages
3,430
Location
California
I just noticed the part about where nick said he doesnt want to hear whinning LOL. Melee people are doing what about brawl?
 

NeighborhoodP

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 24, 2006
Messages
8,199
Location
SoCal
I think Neighborhoodp does a search on frotazs posts.
naw, this is just one of about 4-6 threads at any given time on smash boards i actively check, and i tend to post exclusively in those groups of threads until they die, moving on to the next one as they come about.

as you can see, this one hasn't died.
 

darkatma

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 10, 2005
Messages
5,747
Location
St Louis, Missouri/Fremont, CA
the 23-70 was in teams, i guess he wasnt paying attention lmao

But no, fine, a better comparison would be watching zhu play falco in melee, then watching anything try to combo in brawl.


old bunny, but not scary
 

Miharu

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 13, 2006
Messages
6,647
Location
Bay Area, CA
Just shut the **** up and have tournaments IMO.

Pretty sure most of us started going to the biweeklies more due to the community itself, etc. Honestly doesn't matter what I say about my likes/dislikes about Brawl, since some random ***got will decide to shoot it down with some nonsensical argument that isn't really worth replying to.

Pretty dumb when it gets to the point where we're just arguing over which game has more depth and not actually running tournaments so we can actually FIND OUT which one is "better," which is an inherently stupid idea in itself.

Whatever, just hold tourneys, I miss Norcal :/

I'll help out with brackets too :/

lol @ saying that Brawl is a more mental game than Melee
 
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