Nice Point Mafia Day 6 (5/8 to Lynch, Deadline: Saturday the 19th at Midnight)

[Cello_Marl]

Yes, I'll hold them, because I don't know with certainty whether there is a doctor or not. On that note, I've changed my mind, and I would definitely prefer to go the "all-search" route. Assuming that a 12 or 13-person search will gather all the balls (which is still in my opinion the most likely scenario), we can either get a N2 wish or significantly reduce the lynch pool by scrutinizing anyone who doesn't hand over a ball. Suffice it to say I thought of a way to guarantee honesty, which you can easily figure out if you think about it, but that I don't want to say.

@mod: Do wishes only occur during a particular time? Day or Night only, or whenever they happen to be brought together? If Night, are wishes Night actions?

 

[SwordsRbroken]

Mentos pretty much said what i was going to say. I don't get why everyone is trying to figure out the flavor of the game, as in who is what. Like jungle's picture, it's like throwing a dart and trying to hit a bullseye blindfolded.

But anyway, SSBF, a few pages ago, you supported Overswarm, saying that his post was townie. Makes it sound to me that you agreed with him, but now sold 2 has called him out on it, you are now saying that cello hasn't committed a scum tell.

As for cello, he loves to do WIFOM cases. He's turned both town and scum. There have been many games i've played with him in which he's been as scummy as heck, and then when he is lynched, he flips town. Of course, he sometimes flips scum too. I am not defending him either, just saying that he always plays like this.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

oops, i forgot to unvote.

 

[Kataefi]

uh oh

lots of posts... american timezones... PK if you're on (sod's law says you're not) we should euro takeover - lez'go:

vote: ssbf says the smiley

OS sounds like operating system to me and I don't like referring to someone as an operating system - Swarm it is! Swarm you alluded to a plan of action pre-game and yet seem most interested in [belittling] another's - why is this? would you have doubted your own? also why post: #123? I'm confused =?... you show a need to establish how many people are of each faction almost as a definitive number when in the same post you have no clue as to what the mod is thinking in terms of characters. How can they both interlink? I had to breathe in between writing this paragraph btw - how confident are you in your reads?

Mentos pretty much said what i was going to say.

o really?

Like jungle's picture, it's like throwing a dart and trying to hit a bullseye blindfolded.

really now?

are you parroting? don't let mentos silence you - what were you going to say?

As for cello, he loves to do WIFOM cases. He's turned both town and scum. There have been many games i've played with him in which he's been as scummy as heck, and then when he is lynched, he flips town. Of course, he sometimes flips scum too. I am not defending him either, just saying that he always plays like this.

o really? interesting! why was there a need to say this? you've said Cello's going to flip town or scum... and this is common knowledge. The only thing I don't like here is you're commenting on how Cello's playing not what he's saying:- do you agree with what Cello's saying? why did you highlight you're not defending Cello as if you expected someone to raise that point at you?

@Overswarm: Really good post there. You have officially earned the first town point in this game (Based off my opinion).

what was really good about it? =? why have you placed yourself in charge of townie points? Why are townie points important in finding scum?
_

I'm still using ninja'd in the exact same way I've used it for centuries! no one's gunning me down on this (and no urban dictionary references please or my dreams will be crushed)

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Sup Jungle what's yo role and who do you think is suspect let's get this hydra rollin

Cello is insane if he thinks I'm going to trust him with my balls [lol] even if we do a mass-search. On the topic of mass-searching, I think bulma having a 100% chance or summit is kinda farfetched, but yeah.

 

[Overswarm]

Mass Dragonball search would probably get all the balls in one Night. It's also possible that Bulma or someone with a dragon radar could act as a cop of sorts (if she doesn't guarantee an increased or 100% chance to find a Dragonball), if she found that someone was holding out on giving up a ball. This is speculative, but I think it's likely. Further, any scum that deviated wouldn't find/get any balls.

Problems with this:

You're guessing not only off of flavor, but off of roles and powers that couldn't have existed in another mafia game. This is pretty insane, really. Assuming you're town, we can assume this is just honest foolishness and can remove it.

In addition to this, your guessing on how the dragon balls are found. We don't know if someone doesn't have 100% chance to find a dragon ball if they search. Maybe everyone has it set in advance? D1 player A finds one, D2 he doesn't, D3 he does, D4 he does, D5 he doesn't, etc., etc. until they're all taken. Maybe some people can't search. Maybe there are several people that can find them 100% of the time. Maybe it's a 50% chance for everyone. We don't know.

This leaves us with this:

Mass Dragonball search would probably get all the balls in one Night. Further, any scum that deviated wouldn't find/get any balls.

The first statement I can agree with. If we all simultaneously searched, pretty much all the dragon balls would be in play. Assuming there's a 1 in 3 chance of getting a dragon ball (as low as any sane mod would do) for everyone, we'd get most, if not all of them. If it was as a high as a 50% chance, we'd almost certainly get all of them. It's unlikely a mass search wouldn't put all the dragon balls in play.

Issues with this:

Scum "deviating" from this plan would be... well that'd be up to scum. We wouldn't know if they did or not. All this could conceivably do is force scum to search for dragon balls.

This also doesn't do anything good for town. One person needs to have all 7 dragon balls. No one is stupid enough to give their dragon balls away to someone that isn't guaranteed town, so it's unlikely that six or seven people are going to do that.

All this does is guarantee that scum can train every night. That's what searching for all the dragon balls does. It puts them all into play in seven different locations and tells scum "yo, feel free to train every night without losing a chance to gather dragon balls". That's bad. We WANT scum to be confused as to what to do with this. Telling them "here's what everyone is doing! Plan accordingly!" is a bad idea.

Mass power-up means that we're gaining a lot more total strength than scum, and means that any scum that deviate may still be detected in the same manner. Further, it ensures that scum can't take any Dragonballs when they gank someone (since we won't have them).

Everyone powering up would definitely create a larger "power base" of town. There are more of us and less of scum. Logically speaking, if everyone trained, there'd be more abilities and whatnot given to town than mafia.

This has the obvious issues of not knowing who to trust and then potentially having multiple town members messing each other up, but overall the idea of "everyone train = stronger town to mafia ratio" is a sound one.

....but detecting scum that do otherwise? I'm not sure what you mean. Are you under the assumption that everyone's Night Action of search/train would be posted publicly? I doubt this... even if it were true, you'd have just as much chance of saying "I told everyone to search for dragon balls, and this guy trained! Lynch him!" to a town member that just didn't agree with you.

Each night we can either train or search. There are 15 of us. If we each had a 50% shot of finding a Dragon Ball on a search (probably at least that much or else we'd never find them all), it's likely that we'd find all 7 in one Night. We'd have to choose someone to trust with our wish, but I don't see how that choice matters (if you don't, just think about it).

Agree with the "likely to find all 7 in one night".

The choice matters... a lot.

Well, there would be a problem if we didn't have a doctor-like role, but that's not likely.

*facepalm*

There's more than one way to kill someone. The doctor doesn't necessarily want to protect someone who has all the dragon balls. If one person doesn't want to give up the dragon balls, this gives two targets. Doctors can't protect two people, so if one person decided "I'm not giving my dragon ball to that guy!" and the mafia killed him, the one town member would never be able to get all seven dragon balls without lynching a mafia member holding one, and the doctor would have to protect the same person EVERY NIGHT. You'd be effectively removing the doctor AND the dragon balls from the game if there was even the slightest thing going wrong.

It sounds like a great idea to just throw your dragon balls at the same guy over and over again, but when you cant' guarantee he's town you're going to get people that don't necessarily agree with that being the correct choice. Hell, we don't even know what the wishes are. We don't even know if they're posted publicly! What if some of the wishes could be both helpful to scum or town depending on who used it? "This player now has lynch immunity for the Day of his choice" or "It now takes two additional votes to lynch this player" or "this player can investigate three players of his choice" are all great plays for both town or mafia. We wouldn't necessarily get a ton of information. We just know that something big would happen and it may or may not be in our favor.


I understand where you're coming from. "Hey, if we give all the dragon balls to this guy, we have a greater chance of him being town! Then when he makes his wish, we'll get confirmed town or confirmed mafia, either way it's great for town!" Not what you'd call a well thought out plan though.

Here's a fun little exercise: put yourself in the actual DBZ show and imagine how this would turn out. Vegeta would say "give ME the dragon balls, I'll hold onto them!" and everyone would disagree. Goku would agree with his plan, but not about giving the dragon balls to him. He'd suggest we pick someone else to hold them. Vegeta would say "What about him, then?" and point to someone. Goku would agree, that guy would hold onto the dragon balls, then Vegeta would punch him in the gut, take the dragon balls, and make a ****** wish.

It's really not a great plan. It's probably better that there be some secrecy, don't you think? Not knowing where the dragon balls are hiding is a big deal.

@OS: In essence, you asked me to not speculate...on speculation.

Wat

My propositions were entirely based on what I perceive as likely.

I pray you'll not be offended in that I don't agree with your perceptions.

Further, what I referred to as likely is based not on the flavor, but on the game specific mechanics. Could you see there being less than a 50% chance that we each have to find a Dragonball? There are two actions we can take, train or search, in addition to any other actions. We can assume that under normal circumstances about half could be expected to do each action, so 7 or 8. If there was a 25% chance, that would be an expected 2 balls each night (or about 3 if Bulma has an increased search rate, as she'd be sure to search [yes, this is based off of flavor, but this is a themed game], or Day 5 before all the balls are even in play (or Day 4 if Bulma is a searcher instead of a Ball-cop), much less able to be consolidated. This is still certainly possible, but I don't think it's likely.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. My response is above; putting all the dragon balls in play doesn't necessarily help the town. You don't know if Bulma is even a character. With 15 character choices, I can think of at least twice that many choices for an awesome themed game. Even if she exists, you have no idea what her power would be. You're guessing as to what you'd create if you made this game. Even if you're right, you're still guessing. Hell, let's say you took a shot in the dark and managed to be right: Bulma is in this game and she gets some crazy dragon ball bonus. She has a chance to find two a night, she finds one 100% every night, she can search and train simultaneously, she can steal dragon balls from other players, she has a radar that tells her who is holding dragon balls, etc., etc. Whatever. If the entire town searched for dragon balls, her special ability would now be useless since they're all in play. You'd be crippling what would have been an awesome town ability.

@Overswarm: By enforcing a town-only division from scum, then we may be able to give ourselves an additional advantage that we otherwise would not have.

Except you can't guarantee a town-only division from scum. "All right town, everyone search for dragon balls" doesn't mean everyone in town wants to search. Hell, someone might not be ABLE to search. We have no idea. The idea that you'd not only be able to see who deviated from the plan but then immediately ostracize them simply makes flying under the radar for mafia even easier. Everyone would be forced to search or train based off of your own personal order and anyone who didn't would be lynched. This would results in you removing training OR dragon balls from the game and a whooooole lot of wild goose chases.

It doesn't make any sense.

I already explained what I think the advantages of each decision would be.

*looks back at your posts*

No, you didn't. You said things that didn't make sense and/or weren't true or were only true if the game just happened to be designed around your personal expectations.

Those are my reasons for wanting to do all of one or the other. I have no preference for either action, as I can think of various reasons (that shouldn't be said, because they are traps [I like traps]) to go for either. That's why I asked what other people thought, but if I change my mind, I'll say so.

I'm not sure who you're trying to trap, because it seems you're just trying to trap whoever wouldn't agree with you. That's the only "guaranteed trap" you can get from this "plan".

However, even if people would prefer to test mechanics, I think it would be best if he have accountability from people and have them declare what actions (of search and train) they took the Night before. No secrets. If people are worried about getting killed for saying that they have a ball, then I'll hold onto them.

What. WHAT.

So, why is my idea so terrible?

Let's recap:

You've said that everyone should simultaneously search to put the dragon balls in play, or everyone should simultaneously train to get a stronger base. Your support from this is primarily coming from a character we don't even know exists, with abilities that may not be there. To make it more hilarious, your proposed plan actually weakens her abilities if they're what they say they are (the odds of this are incredibly slim).

On top of this, you want to ostracize those that go against the grain. This is obviously a bad idea, because you're literally giving mafia a "safe zone" to hide under, and then everyone that doesn't do what you said is in danger. Even if you think you're making a poor attempt at being tricky and saying "ah HA! Only town wouldn't have agreed to what I said!", you still have no new information and are, again, just guessing.



I've gone over most of the issues, but...

Simultaneous dragon ball searching problems:

1. The mafia has an increased chance of getting a dragon ball with a Night kill. Like it or not, the dragon balls are probably only going to be used once, maybe twice, the entire game. If you suddenly give every member of the mafia a 50% chance of having their own dragon ball and then give them a 50% chance of killing someone and them holding a dragon ball, you're putting the odds heavily in their favor. To top this off, whoever hammers someone gets their dragon balls. This means that when someone hammers, they're probably holding TWO dragons balls if everyone searched. Prime mafia target. Since you have to publicly post "give dragonballs: name", this makes it even worse.

2. You're gonna mess up anyone with special "dragon ball" searching abilities. If there is a "bulma-esque" power for town where they get super searching abilities, it's pretty lame that they lose it immediately.

3. You're gonna get real messed up if a mafia member has the ability to know where all the dragon balls are. That gives them a hit list that gives them many, many options.

4. The whole "get him!" effect to whoever doesn't search per your request

5. It's incredibly unlikely that we're going to give all our dragon balls to one guy right off the bat. This means that mafia are going to end up holding at least ONE, right? Obvious issue comes about that mafia has the ability to get many dragon balls all at once if they kill the guy who is holding them.

6. I mean come on. You're giving a blueprint to mafia and they can go along with it or go against it in whatever way they want.

Problems with mass training:

1. Mafia gets increased chance of getting exclusive dragon balls. That's bad for town.

2. Some people might prefer to search rather than train, or maybe even CAN'T train! You've been a big fan of the Bulma flavor, so go ahead and give me your prediction as to what her "training" could accomplish =P

3. Let's say it WAS posted out loud what everyone did. Let's assume again that town would agree to everything you did, and only mafia would search. Mafia knows this, so they'd train. Everyone trains. Dragon balls are now not in play. This goes along with #2, but it also just takes an element out of the game. That isn't necessarily good... and it lets mafia members train with impunity.

4. We have no idea what the advantages to training would be. There is a "max level", so how long do we train? You'd have to break off eventually.





To top it all off:

You ended this with "Hey guys, just le me hold onto the dragon balls".

Seriously?

However, even if people would prefer to test mechanics, I think it would be best if he have accountability from people and have them declare what actions (of search and train) they took the Night before. No secrets. If people are worried about getting killed for saying that they have a ball, then I'll hold onto them.

You want everyone to publicly tell mafia what they did so they know exactly who to night kill to collect dragon balls and exactly who is more likely to be gaining powers, and then tell people "Hey, it's dangerous to hold those. Let me hold them for you". Why, oh why, would this ever be a good idea?






My vote is staying on you for now. Luckily for you, I don't really think you're scum. I just don't think you thought this through very clearly. If you were scum, you'd probably have a better thought out plan than this, so it is infinitely more likely you just didn't think it through. You're not looking like someone I'm gonna want around in lylo, but I'm going to go after inactives before I hunt bad players during my search for scum.


Fair is fair though, after all:

My personal suggestion to everyone is to do what fits best for your character. If your ability sucks, train so they don't. If your abilities are awesome, search for dragon balls. If you are a mason, search for dragon balls because you get an extra advantage between the two of you.

 

[Overswarm]

OS sounds like operating system to me and I don't like referring to someone as an operating system - Swarm it is! Swarm you alluded to a plan of action pre-game and yet seem most interested in [belittling] another's - why is this? would you have doubted your own? also why post: #123? I'm confused =?... you show a need to establish how many people are of each faction almost as a definitive number when in the same post you have no clue as to what the mod is thinking in terms of characters. How can they both interlink? I had to breathe in between writing this paragraph btw - how confident are you in your reads?

My "pre-game plan" can't go into affect until day 2, and will only work if certain conditions are met. I'll let you know after.

My original post was mostly just to get the ridiculous joke phase over with. Every mafia game I've seen that has a joke phase last a while generally ends with a townie saying something stupid and everyone ganging up on him. It's never mafia. F the joke phase.

That said, the flavor might help a little bit. If we see some symmetry in characters being played or find out that that two mafia members of Raditz and Vegeta, we'd know the third one would probably be Nappa. Any flavor cops or posting restrictions that are in this game would have that advantage at that point... but that's neither here nor there. It'll be useful after a few flips.

Sup Jungle what's yo role and who do you think is suspect let's get this hydra rollin

Cello is insane if he thinks I'm going to trust him with my balls [lol] even if we do a mass-search. On the topic of mass-searching, I think bulma having a 100% chance or summit is kinda farfetched, but yeah.

Who is a hydra in this game?

+rep for using the name of your avatar in your post

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I haven't completely read OS's post yet, but I'm going to suggest something:
I say we make everyone post the command of trading a dragonball tomorrow with someone else, that way we know who has a dragonball for future trading, this way scum can't get away with lying that they have no dragonball. After the trade, the person who received the ball should trade it back, if he doesn't, he's guarenteed scum.
With that said, I agree to a mass search tonight.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

are you parroting? don't let mentos silence you - what were you going to say?o really? interesting! why was there a need to say this? you've said Cello's going to flip town or scum... and this is common knowledge. The only thing I don't like here is you're commenting on how Cello's playing not what he's saying:- do you agree with what Cello's saying? why did you highlight you're not defending Cello as if you expected someone to raise that point at you?what was really good about it? =? why have you placed yourself in charge of townie points? Why are townie points important in finding scum?

I was commenting to overswarm that Cello is always as scummy as heck.
But even still, i do not agree with Cello's ideas. If all the dragonballs were found in one night, then that wouldn't make the game as interesting. I highlighted that i am not defending cello, because i knew someone would have twisted my words to make it seem that way. As for what was good about it, i was pointing out to OS that cello always plays like this. How have i placed myself in charge of townie points?

As for cello, I don't know why you want to find all the dragon balls in one night. Why would this be a good idea?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

The faster we wish the more broken town will be.

 

[Ronike]

@mod: Do wishes only occur during a particular time? Day or Night only, or whenever they happen to be brought together? If Night, are wishes Night actions?

Once someone has all 7 dragonballs, they may make a wish at any time. This also means they can save their wish if they choose, but once they have 7 dragonballs they may no longer trade any or all of them. Wishing would not take the place of ones night actions should the person choose to use their wish at night. Or at least, that's what my magic 8 ball told me...

 

[Deleted member]

Vote: Cello
FoS: SSBF

Cello, why do you want to get all the dragonballs in the game that early? it will only increase the risk of scum obtaining them. also you then want that at some point everybody gives the balls to one person.
just that statement alone made you very scummy. The ONLY way that would work is with a confirmed townie, and then we'd also have to be sure he gets all balls, otherwise he probably gets NK'd before he can make the wish and then scum has almost all of them.

SSBF, why do you have to start off so bad...
in #124 you call OS's simple list a wall. and I prob don't even have to mention the huge fail in #132

Xonar. while the idea is interesting of the trade, there are 2 problems.
1) people with no balls (lol) can't use the command. I dunno what happens if they do but the rules were quite specific.
2) you'd have to trust someone else.

also, at your last post, same goes for scum.

 

[Deleted member]

Just read OS's long post, and I can only agree.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Xonar. while the idea is interesting of the trade, there are 2 problems.
1) people with no balls (lol) can't use the command. I dunno what happens if they do but the rules were quite specific.
2) you'd have to trust someone else.

also, at your last post, same goes for scum.

Those are no problems, lol. Think about it.

People without balls (this game is gonna be epic) will use the command and then Ronike will deconfirm their ability to trade, allowing us to know who doesn't have balls xD and who does.
You wouldn't have to trust someone else, if the other person doesn't trade it back he's instantscum and will be lynched without a doubt.

 

[Nicholas1024]

First off, town is not going to gather the dragonballs without some serious luck. Let me quote you guys one of the rules...

9005. If you can communicate privately with someone, you may trade dragonballs by PMing me the same command during the day only.

This means that if the mafia gets so much as one dragonball, we can forget about making the wish without killing all of them or a seriously lucky vig.

As far as the search/train thing goes, everyone should make up their own mind on it. If we all train, mafia just searches and after a few nights gets all the dragonballs, which is awful for us. If we all search, we lose out on the potential benefits of training, not to mention mafia will probably get one anyway, which means we still likely won't get the wish.

So, in a nutshell, I think Cello's idea is terrible. However, I don't think Cello's scum. Cello's up to something, and I think I know what it is. (Referencing a little past meta here. I've seen town-play like this from Cello. I have not though, seen Cello's scum-play.) However, I'm going to wait until everyone chimes in on the matter first. I'm going to compile a list of responses to Cello's idea.

Please copy/paste the below list and add in your response. Once everyone's responded, I'll give my theory as to why Cello proposed the idea.

Xonar:
Jungle:
Rockin:
Clownbot:
Kataefi:
The paprika killer:
Nicholas1024: No.
Swordsrbroken:
Mentosman8:
Meta-kirby:
Super smash bros. fan:
Overswarm:
Sold2:
Hilt:
Cello_marl: Proposed the idea.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Those are no problems, lol. Think about it.

People without balls (this game is gonna be epic) will use the command and then Ronike will deconfirm their ability to trade, allowing us to know who doesn't have balls xD and who does.
You wouldn't have to trust someone else, if the other person doesn't trade it back he's instantscum and will be lynched without a doubt.

@Ronike
Would this be allowed, or would you modkill people without dragonballs that post the trade command?

 

[Deleted member]

yeah, except for the fact scum might just not search and then still receive balls this way.
the thing is SOMEONE has to pick SOMEONE ELSE. the trading back and forth between people also means someone has to go first, and then might end up with his ball(s) and then one he gets from the tradeback.

Also, scum will now ALSO know who has balls, and can act accordingly. we obv. will then after the next night have no clue where the ball(s) of the victim went (lol gross).

the advantages are just too little compared to the downsides.

 

[Deleted member]

Xonar:
Jungle:
Rockin:
Clownbot:
Kataefi:
The paprika killer: F-ing horrible
Nicholas1024: No.
Swordsrbroken:
Mentosman8:
Meta-kirby:
Super smash bros. fan:
Overswarm:
Sold2:
Hilt:
Cello_marl: Proposed the idea.

why not enlighten us now nich?

 

[Nicholas1024]

Because that would defeat the purpose of Cello proposing the idea in the first place (assuming my explanation is correct). If you need a parallel, think of why Cello didn't immediately stump in Treestump mafia. It was to provoke reactions that Cello might not have seen otherwise.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

yeah, except for the fact scum might just not search and then still receive balls this way.
the thing is SOMEONE has to pick SOMEONE ELSE. the trading back and forth between people also means someone has to go first, and then might end up with his ball(s) and then one he gets from the tradeback.

Also, scum will now ALSO know who has balls, and can act accordingly. we obv. will then after the next night have no clue where the ball(s) of the victim went (lol gross).

the advantages are just too little compared to the downsides.

Scum won't receive anything, we can make pairs and have those people trade with each other, with a 3 man pair because there are 15 (with 2 kills 13 i guess?) people.

Scum knowing who has balls and who not is, admittedly, a disadvantage, but say we have someone who can be cleared tomorrow with a good claim n stuff (which is not all that farfetched in this setup tbh) we can get a wish on d2...!

 

[Overswarm]

I haven't completely read OS's post yet, but I'm going to suggest something:
I say we make everyone post the command of trading a dragonball tomorrow with someone else, that way we know who has a dragonball for future trading, this way scum can't get away with lying that they have no dragonball. After the trade, the person who received the ball should trade it back, if he doesn't, he's guarenteed scum.
With that said, I agree to a mass search tonight.

Haha, you've gotten close to my plan. Hold onto this thought until Day 2

Once someone has all 7 dragonballs, they may make a wish at any time. This also means they can save their wish if they choose, but once they have 7 dragonballs they may no longer trade any or all of them. Wishing would not take the place of ones night actions should the person choose to use their wish at night. Or at least, that's what my magic 8 ball told me...

L2 Be clear. >_>

It's not cute to say "Oh yeah... OR MAYBE NOT?!", so don't. You could be directly affecting the game.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

..wow, Cello lol. There's no way people would trust you with their dragonballs just because they're afraid of getting killed. Are you saying you're not afraid of a night kill? Or do you think we should give you our dragonballs when we're afraid of dying so you can die instead and give mafia ours AS WELL as yours. Also all this flavor talk really isn't getting us anywhere. If someone thinks they should train, they're probably going to train. If someone wants to go gung-ho searching for dragonballs, they're probably going to. Having everyone do the same thing isn't going to benefit us more than everyone doing what they think is best for their role.

Also, if we are planning on one trusted player getting the seven balls at a point in the game, up until then, we should make sure we don't pass off too many to the same player. Keeping them spread out well would make it difficult for mafia to take more than one tops during the night. Not that you should give some away if you find more than one, just saying.

Also, I liked the original idea of your plan xonor, or rather, the goal. One of the problems is that anyone that can communicate privately (mafia included) can trade dragonballs among each other in private. So if they wanted to, they could make it seem like they don't have any dragonballs at all, if they move fast enough. Also, openly telling mafia which of us have dragonballs, I don't really like.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Oh wow, ninja'd by like five people

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Also, I liked the original idea of your plan xonor, or rather, the goal. One of the problems is that anyone that can communicate privately (mafia included) can trade dragonballs among each other in private. So if they wanted to, they could make it seem like they don't have any dragonballs at all, if they move fast enough.

Right, didn't factor this in. Nvm then.

 

[Ronike]

People without balls (this game is gonna be epic) will use the command and then Ronike will deconfirm their ability to trade, allowing us to know who doesn't have balls xD and who does.

This is exactly WHY that rule was put into place: so that I would not have to confirm or deny a person's having a dragonball. Try my patience again with talk of blasphemy, and I will smite ye where you stand (talk about breaking the rules some more and you will get a modkill for your trouble).

 

[Nicholas1024]

Going to expand the query a little.

@Everyone
Please give your thoughts on Cello's idea and whether or not you think he's scummy for it. This is what I've rounded up so far. Make sure to correct me if I got something wrong.

Xonar: Didn't object to mass search, but said he wouldn't trust Cello with a dragonball. Not sure if he finds Cello scummy or not.
Jungle:
Rockin:
Clownbot:
Kataefi:
The paprika killer: Horrible idea, thinks Cello's scum.
Nicholas1024: Definitely not, but I think I know what Cello's up to.
Swordsrbroken: Doesn't think Cello's scummy, I don't think he gave an opinion on Cello's idea though.
Mentosman8:
Meta-kirby:
Super smash bros. fan: Said Cello hasn't commited a scumtell. I don't think he said yes/no to the idea yet.
Overswarm: No^(infinity + 1) and Cello = superscum.
Sold2: Doesn't support the plan, but I don't think he finds Cello scummy.
Hilt: No. I get the impression he thinks Cello's scummy from his post.
Cello_marl: Proposed the idea.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

This is exactly WHY that rule was put into place: so that I would not have to confirm or deny a person's having a dragonball. Try my patience again with talk of blasphemy, and I will smite ye where you stand (talk about breaking the rules some more and you will get a modkill for your trouble).

Aka I don't want to mass search

 

[Nicholas1024]

Aka I don't want to mass search

You have time to take cheap shots at the mod but not answer questions I've put forth to everyone (which includes you)? A nice big FOS for you.

Answer my question. Do you or do you not find Cello scummy?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I'm not sure if I find Cello scummy or not yet. Should think this over but I really cba atm. Excuse moi.

 

[mentosman8]

To anyone who is still saying we should make our searching/training and results public, just stop. Firstly, to those saying everyone post the command to trade so we know who has them, this is explicitly forbidden in the rules, so people could still hide them. Secondly, if we know of 2 players with the balls, scum now has 2 people they could kill to get them. They no longer have to worry about searching because they can focus on hitting the people they know have balls to collect them. Training/searching needs to be independent decision, and kept private at least until such a time when we have a cleared townie to trade them to.

Secondly, I highly doubt the chances of finding the dragon balls is as high as people are suggesting. The wish has been flat out stated as gamebreaking. That isn't something that is going to come together in one night. If that was possible, the wishes would be balanced, not gamebreaking.

Thirdly, I am highly uncomfortable with Cello's suggestion that he would "hang on to them." It's not even halfway through D1, and you're already suggesting trusting you with something so major. No thank you.

Also, if we all trained, or those who trained made it clear, scum could become acutely aware of who is likely to pose the biggest threat. Someone posts that they have trained every night 1-3, is more likely a threat to scum than someone who has searched every night. Granted, there are +s and -s to each kill at that point, outting the night movements gives scum information, something we really want to avoid.

I've played a game that had a similar night mechanic to this before, Harry Potter Mafia. I know Jungle was there, and knows how much of an effect outting these movements can have. At the end of the game, had my role not been there, town could have been saved from guaranteed defeat simply because Tom didn't tell what he had gotten at night, and was able to daykill with the item he had. There are far more benefits from keeping our night movements hidden than making them predictable or public, so let's stick with keeping things secret.

 

[Overswarm]

Yeah, don't put words into my mouth Nicholas1024. I think Cello is closer to stupid than scum at the moment.



I'm going to be focusing most of my efforts on killing people that are inactive or don't contribute much.

User Name Posts
Overswarm 25
Super Smash Bros. Fan 25
The Paprika Killer 16
Ronike 15
Xonar 14
Nicholas1024 13
Cello_Marl 11
Clownbot 11
Meta-Kirby 9
mentosman8 9
Kataefi 8
SwordsRbroken 7
Sold2 5
Dark_Ermac 5
Rockin 5
Hilt 4
Junglefever 4
Xiivi 2
Gheb_01 1


If you're low on this list and playing, post more. I'll lynch you otherwise, there will be no dead weight.

 

[Deleted member]

nich I NEVER said cello to be scum

a nice FoS on you. first you say "copy/paste and fill in" now you're like "I'll write your opinion on the matter for you."

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Paprika

Let me direct you to this post.

Vote: Cello
FoS: SSBF

Cello, why do you want to get all the dragonballs in the game that early? it will only increase the risk of scum obtaining them. also you then want that at some point everybody gives the balls to one person.
just that statement alone made you very scummy. The ONLY way that would work is with a confirmed townie, and then we'd also have to be sure he gets all balls, otherwise he probably gets NK'd before he can make the wish and then scum has almost all of them.

SSBF, why do you have to start off so bad...
in #124 you call OS's simple list a wall. and I prob don't even have to mention the huge fail in #132

Xonar. while the idea is interesting of the trade, there are 2 problems.
1) people with no balls (lol) can't use the command. I dunno what happens if they do but the rules were quite specific.
2) you'd have to trust someone else.

also, at your last post, same goes for scum.

See the bolded part. "JUST THAT STATEMENT ALONE MAKES YOU VERY SCUMMY." AKA: You think Cello's scum. You can't backpedal now.

@Overswarm
People weren't answering my questions, so I rounded up the opinions I could figure out from the thread.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Added fixes.

Xonar: Didn't object to mass search, but said he wouldn't trust Cello with a dragonball. Not sure if he finds Cello scummy or not.
Jungle:
Rockin:
Clownbot:
Kataefi:
The paprika killer: Horrible idea, thinks Cello's scum. Backpedals later and claims not to.
Nicholas1024: Definitely not, but I think I know what Cello's up to.
Swordsrbroken: Doesn't think Cello's scummy, I don't think he gave an opinion on Cello's idea though.
Mentosman8: Against the idea, is uncomfortable with Cello saying he'll hang on to them.
Meta-kirby:
Super smash bros. fan: Said Cello hasn't commited a scumtell. I don't think he said yes/no to the idea yet.
Overswarm: No^(infinity + 1) and Cello = superdumb.
Sold2: Doesn't support the plan, but I don't think he finds Cello scummy.
Hilt: No. I get the impression he thinks Cello's scummy from his post.
Cello_marl: Proposed the idea.

 

[Deleted member]

I need to pay attention when I make a post.

can you at least explain why you need this list? (or the fact that you started filling it yourself instead of letting people do it THEMSELVES?)

 

[Overswarm]

Unvote
Vote Nicholas1024

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I need to pay attention when I make a post.

can you at least explain why you need this list? (or the fact that you started filling it yourself instead of letting people do it THEMSELVES?)

Telling it defeats the purpose. Read his posts.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Unvote
Vote Nicholas1024

I hope you have a reason for that vote, Overswarm.

@Paprika
The list I'm making is to keep track of who's done what for reference in scumhunting. How your opinions on Cello's idea (and of Cello's scumminess) will be used in future scumhunting (and the explanation behind Cello's purpose behind proposing said idea) is classified until I've got the list filled in. This keeps scum from figuring out what I consider townie v.s. scummy behavior until its too late for them.

Also, I started filling in the list myself because several people had already posted and just ignored my request. It's faster and more efficient this way.

 

[Deleted member]

What purpose? really all he said was:

So, in a nutshell, I think Cello's idea is terrible. However, I don't think Cello's scum. Cello's up to something, and I think I know what it is. (Referencing a little past meta here. I've seen town-play like this from Cello. I have not though, seen Cello's scum-play.) However, I'm going to wait until everyone chimes in on the matter first. I'm going to compile a list of responses to Cello's idea.

Please copy/paste the below list and add in your response. Once everyone's responded, I'll give my theory as to why Cello proposed the idea.

Which only makes it seem he wants to make a safe opinion.

As a matter of fact, he didn't even ask our opinion on how scummy we thought cello was, just our opninion on his idea.

Unvote
Vote: Nicholas
FoS: Xonar
if I haven't already

 

[Deleted member]

boohoo, they ignored you. maybe they didn't want to help you, and then you could've just ask again.