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Nice Point Mafia Day 6 (5/8 to Lynch, Deadline: Saturday the 19th at Midnight)

#HBC | ZoZo

Shocodoro Blagshidect
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Messages
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Land of Nether
Wow TPK, I don't like your vibes at all.
Vote: TPK

He has a theory, let him do what he wants to do. You're also mass buddying Cello, me not like.
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
Nicholas, I believe you're in the "explain yourself" boat.

Why, exactly, is posting publicly what you believe a good idea? Why are you posting what you feel other people believe, and how is that helpful?

How about this list:

Overswarm- loves licking ant farms, also thinks Overswarm is a superhero who is really good with women. Also everyone but OS is scum.

Because that's about as useful as what you're posting. Moreso, actually, because yours is dangerous as it is a red herring.
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
Wow TPK, I don't like your vibes at all.
Vote: TPK

He has a theory, let him do what he wants to do. You're also mass buddying Cello, me not like.
I'm not a fan of his current "ride the wagon" mentality. After one person moves, he feels free to move. Overall agree w/ Xonar.

FoS: Paprika
 

Nicholas1024

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
1,075
Paprika Killer, let me direct you to this post.

Going to expand the query a little.

@Everyone
Please give your thoughts on Cello's idea and whether or not you think he's scummy for it. This is what I've rounded up so far. Make sure to correct me if I got something wrong.
Also, I do have a theory for Cello's behavior, and I will reveal it when the list is complete. Feel free to lynch me if I fail to do so.

Also, I dislike asking the same thing twice, I'd rather do it myself. It saves time, energy, and hassle.

@Overswarm
Now you're sidetracking me. I'm keeping track of people's concrete opinions, and some that aren't quite as concrete. In your example, you gave a bunch of crap that has nothing to do with anything. Also, for those people for which I put "I think XXX finds Cello scummy/not scummy", I would appriciate clarification from said people. After looking back on some of Cello's games, I'm pretty sure I've seen him do this sort of thing before, so I've got a good guess as to his reasoning behind it.

At any rate, what I'm constructing here is an overview of people's opinions on Cello and his idea, which I plan to use later. It's kind of like a vote count: Concrete evidence that can be used in a case. And I don't like that you're trying to derail it.


Case against TPK so far:
Let's see here, we have TPK calling Cello scummy, then going back on it and claiming he never said so when I write it down in my list. As if that's not enough, we also have a count of skimming against him, and some nice Oh-my-gosh-you-suck. I think that's enough for an early D1 case.

Unvote if I had one
Vote TPK

Also, just so everyone sees this:

If I have don't have your concrete opinion on Cello and the idea he proposed down in my list, please give said opinions in your next post. This includes the people for which I said "I think XXX thinks etc." Thank you.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
lolwut Xonar? I first had both a vote on Cello and still find his plan horrible. stop talking trash.
ehm OS, I already had an FoS on him, and I actually put some reasoning behind my vote, unlike yours.

Nich, you added that later. can you also point at me that OMGUS you are talking about?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
right so mass buddying includes hating someone's idea and voting for them. riiiight.
 

DtJ Hilt

Little Lizard
Joined
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Messages
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Location
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What? OS, you say you agree with what Xonar said, but in the post before it, you shoot down Nick's plan. Xonar's point of his post was attacking TPK for.. shooting down Nick's plan. The same thing you did. Contradictory?
Why, exactly, is posting publicly what you believe a good idea? Why are you posting what you feel other people believe, and how is that helpful?
Knowing what a player thinks is crucial towards scumhunting. If someone is constantly withholding information on their opinion, they probably have a reason. That reason is usually that they're too cautious to give their opinion in fear of being attacked or that they don't have an opinion. Scum, even though they know that the player they're talking about is town (unless they're indy), have to choose whether they want to make the leap and call the person scum, or hold back. Nick only asked for opinions from people of a yes or no question on whether or not they think cello is scummy. I don't see the problem.

How about this list:

Overswarm- loves licking ant farms, also thinks Overswarm is a superhero who is really good with women. Also everyone but OS is scum.

Because that's about as useful as what you're posting. Moreso, actually, because yours is dangerous as it is a red herring.
You're wrong. Your example information does nothing to help town. How could the information he asked for be harmful to town moreso than it would harm mafia? You're suggesting that we keep quiet about Cello opinions. That's what's going to harm town, since it will give us too little information to scumhunt with (not just on who people think are mafia, but also who people think are town, based on their opinions on the person's viewpoint of Cello), leading town in the wrong direction.

Watch:

Hilt - I think it was Cello trying to jump into things way too fast. I found the last part about him offering to hold onto the dragonballs scummy, but the rest just seemed like him going at things wrong. I don't like the idea of publicly controlling what all of us as a whole do, search/train wise (not that he was trying himself to, but suggesting the idea of it), and while it could have been done with scum intentions, it doesn't necessarily mean so. I'll be watching him more.

See OS? How does that harm town? I know I'm town, so when it comes to who I think is scummy or not, I have nothing to hide. Why do you? If it were your opinions on every single person, that I can understand, as it gives mafia a better pool to work with. But this isn't the case. But no, you don't have to tell anyone what you think about anyone if you don't want to, haha. Or if you think there's a good reason for you not to. Just don't expect to pass under any radars if you keep to yourself too much :p

Vote: Gheb

Have you said a word since the game started? Would like to hear a bit more from you.
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
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Messages
21,181
What? OS, you say you agree with what Xonar said, but in the post before it, you shoot down Nick's plan. Xonar's point of his post was attacking TPK for.. shooting down Nick's plan. The same thing you did. Contradictory?
No. I think I was clear with why I put a FoS, and an overall agreement with Xonar that TPK is acting iffy.

Knowing what a player thinks is crucial towards scumhunting. If someone is constantly withholding information on their opinion, they probably have a reason. That reason is usually that they're too cautious to give their opinion in fear of being attacked or that they don't have an opinion. Scum, even though they know that the player they're talking about is town (unless they're indy), have to choose whether they want to make the leap and call the person scum, or hold back. Nick only asked for opinions from people of a yes or no question on whether or not they think cello is scummy. I don't see the problem.
Knowing what a player thinks is great and all, but information changes. Worse still, the only people that can be punished for this information would be... town. No one with half a brain is going to say "omg he's scum" this early on and be expected to stick to it. It's why making a scum list is dumb. It does nothing but give people targets and freak some people the hell out.

Why don't we just say "hey everyone, make a list 1-15 of most scummy to least scummy" and go from there? Because it's dumb and doesn't do any good. Trying to make everyone give concrete stances on a guy for one mess up is a dangerous play this early in the game. It's more worthwhile to ask peopel individually based on what they say. He can ask ME what I think about it because I've commented, or he can ask someone else that hasn't and get an "I don't know", but asking everyone and expecting something substantial is silly.

You're wrong. Your example information does nothing to help town. How could the information he asked for be harmful to town moreso than it would harm mafia? You're suggesting that we keep quiet about Cello opinions. That's what's going to harm town, since it will give us too little information to scumhunt with (not just on who people think are mafia, but also who people think are town, based on their opinions on the person's viewpoint of Cello), leading town in the wrong direction.
Not quiet, just not Nicholas making a list of his own interpretation of what we think.

Hilt - I think it was Cello trying to jump into things way too fast. I found the last part about him offering to hold onto the dragonballs scummy, but the rest just seemed like him going at things wrong. I don't like the idea of publicly controlling what all of us as a whole do, search/train wise (not that he was trying himself to, but suggesting the idea of it), and while it could have been done with scum intentions, it doesn't necessarily mean so. I'll be watching him more.
Cool story bro. Way to say "I dunno" in a paragraph while simultaneously making an effort only to piggyback on things already said. You didn't like the idea of him holding on the dragonballs scummy? Welcome to the party.

See OS? How does that harm town? I know I'm town, so when it comes to who I think is scummy or not, I have nothing to hide. Why do you? If it were your opinions on every single person, that I can understand, as it gives mafia a better pool to work with. But this isn't the case. But no, you don't have to tell anyone what you think about anyone if you don't want to, haha. Or if you think there's a good reason for you not to. Just don't expect to pass under any radars if you keep to yourself too much :p
I'm gonna go ahead and throw out the fact that I'm not exactly "flying under the radar"; if anyone is, its you. That's kinda what you DO in mafia games :p

I'll say things when I need to and keep them to myself when I shouldn't, but I'm not going to have Nicholas put things into my (or anyone else's) mouth.

If you want to waste a bunch of time with something like that, cool. I'm not going to. What he's gonna give us from that will be... less than adequate. Especially at this stage in the game. It'd give us nothing.


You wanna do something useful? Ask specific questions to specific individuals and let other people naturally come in or out of the discussion. See who's inactive, see who is distancing themselves, see who is pairing up. None of this list crap.

Vote: Gheb

Have you said a word since the game started? Would like to hear a bit more from you.
Good job voting for a replacement. :)
 

Rockin

Juggies <3
BRoomer
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Post no. 166 (From OS) pretty much gave a legitimate reason as to why us doing a mass dragonball or training is pretty much a bad idea to do (at least constantly). Like several suggested, we should let everyone do their thing on D1 and then we'll publically figure out something as far as what A, B, C, etc. should do.

Who is a hydra in this game?
There are no hydras in the game. Ronike forbids it.

Also, I started filling in the list myself because several people had already posted and just ignored my request. It's faster and more efficient this way.
If you're gonna ask us our opinion about something, it's best if you just...you know, let us fill it in. Doing it yourself defeats the purpose, not to mention you could easily twist around the words later on.

F.O.S: Nicholas

As far as your question goes on the matter, I'm not in much agreement to the mass dragon ball/training plan, only cause of the problems that Overswarm stated. Whether this makes Cello scummy or not is too early to know, as this'll be my second time playing with him in a mafia game.

Vote: Gheb

Have you said a word since the game started? Would like to hear a bit more from you.
There's a legitimate reason why he hasn't said a thing.


Signups:
1. xonar
2. Jungle
3. rockin
4. clownbot
5. kataefi
6. the paprika killer
7. nicholas1024
8. swordsrbroken
9. mentosman8
10. meta-kirby
11. super smash bros. fan
12. overswarm
13. sold2
14. hilt
15. cello_marl


Replacements:
1. Gheb <~~~~~~~~~~~
2. Ermac

 

M.K

Level 55
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
6,033
Location
North Carolina
lolwut Xonar? I first had both a vote on Cello and still find his plan horrible. stop talking trash.
ehm OS, I already had an FoS on him, and I actually put some reasoning behind my vote, unlike yours.

Nich, you added that later. can you also point at me that OMGUS you are talking about?
Just wanted to bring this up: Telling us how many times you've voted for him and how much you think his plan sucks doesn't exactly make you cleared. The only way to clear you (and not even fully then) would be if you were on a Cello wagon that ended in a lynch flip Mafia. V_V
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
>_> that was a reply to xonar who said I was "mass buddying cello".
 

DtJ Hilt

Little Lizard
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Messages
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oops lol unvote mah bad
Why don't we just say "hey everyone, make a list 1-15 of most scummy to least scummy" and go from there? Because it's dumb and doesn't do any good. Trying to make everyone give concrete stances on a guy for one mess up is a dangerous play this early in the game. It's more worthwhile to ask peopel individually based on what they say. He can ask ME what I think about it because I've commented, or he can ask someone else that hasn't and get an "I don't know", but asking everyone and expecting something substantial is silly.
That's completely different and not what he asked for at all. Yeah, what you said does hurt town. Also, yeah, it would be better of him if he asked a specific person individually what they think of Cello.

Cool story bro. Way to say "I dunno" in a paragraph while simultaneously making an effort only to piggyback on things already said. You didn't like the idea of him holding on the dragonballs scummy? Welcome to the party.
When someone asks fourteen people the same question, there are going to be repeated answers, but not everything in that part that I posted was a repeat. I was giving him my opinion on the situation, for his list. Way to look at one part of the paragraph and brush off the rest.

I'm gonna go ahead and throw out the fact that I'm not exactly "flying under the radar"; if anyone is, its you. That's kinda what you DO in mafia games :p
lol good way of saying "no u"

I'll say things when I need to and keep them to myself when I shouldn't, but I'm not going to have Nicholas put things into my (or anyone else's) mouth.
This I agree with. More than just yours, he ended up turning his "list of people's opinions" into what he saw of their opinions, which in turn, forced them to answer to fix it. Didn't like that.

If you want to waste a bunch of time with something like that, cool. I'm not going to. What he's gonna give us from that will be... less than adequate. Especially at this stage in the game. It'd give us nothing.
Probably. But it will give us a better read on him at least. I'd rather play along.
 

DtJ Hilt

Little Lizard
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Messages
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No. I think I was clear with why I put a FoS, and an overall agreement with Xonar that TPK is acting iffy.
No, it wasn't clear. You contradicted yourself and you're trying to get out of it with an "I think we all know what I really meant."
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
No, it wasn't clear. You contradicted yourself and you're trying to get out of it with an "I think we all know what I really meant."
me said:
I'm not a fan of his current "ride the wagon" mentality. After one person moves, he feels free to move. Overall agree w/ Xonar.
You wanna explain how that isn't clear?
 

DtJ Hilt

Little Lizard
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Messages
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You said you didn't make a contradiction, when I pointed it out. Or were you just agreeing with the last part of Xonar's post about TPK and not the rest?
 

DtJ S2n

Stardog Champion
BRoomer
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OS, I hope you're not trying to decide activity by post count. If so, howabout I make a bunch of 1 liner posts like other players do, instead of a decent sized post? Also OS, if you're going to disassemble Cello's plan piece by piece, that's cool and all but try to keep it moderately sized... big posts are not good for town, imo. They cause disinterest and confusion, letting scum slip by easier while losing town. Use key arguments, not a pile of them.

@Nich. Your interpretation of my opinion on Cello is correct. "Don't agree, no read."

@Hilt, why does it matter? I originally thought OS was agreeing with the bandwagoning point, and I'm sure that's what he meant. I see where you're coming from Hilt, but you've got your answer. I shouldn't answer someone else's question but this is dumb.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
big posts are not good for town, imo.
wait what?
"disinterest","confusion"? sounds like you aren't willing to read a well thought out argument.
 

DtJ S2n

Stardog Champion
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Oh no, I'm completely willing to do that. It's difficult, maybe impossible, for a human to keep that much information sketched in the forefront of their mind though. Many people lose track of what they're trying to say when posts get too big. Another thing I hate so much about big posts is that it makes people feel someone is more correct or more town just because they wrote a big post. Am I allowed to quote posts from another mafia game to get my point across?

Sounds like you're trying to poison my well(discredit anything I say in the future), so to speak.
 

DtJ Hilt

Little Lizard
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@Hilt, why does it matter? I originally thought OS was agreeing with the bandwagoning point, and I'm sure that's what he meant. I see where you're coming from Hilt, but you've got your answer. I shouldn't answer someone else's question but this is dumb.
Haha, yeah you're right it is. Dropping it now :p

Also yeah, agreeing with TPK about big posts. Posts that are too big and repetitive, though, bore people to where they don't take as much out of it as they should. But OS' post wasn't too large imo
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I get the point, but it would've been more clear if you just said that big posts often lose track in your previous post.
 

DtJ Hilt

Little Lizard
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Usually you're allowed to post links to other mafia games as long as they're not ongoing. Are you referring to Newbie Mafia 3? Because that's what I thought of lol
 

Nicholas1024

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
1,075
Can you also point at me that OMGUS you are talking about?
Sure can, here you go.

@Paprika

Let me direct you to this post.



See the bolded part. "JUST THAT STATEMENT ALONE MAKES YOU VERY SCUMMY." AKA: You think Cello's scum. You can't backpedal now.
This is Exhibit A, where I point out how you contradicted yourself.


What purpose? really all he said was:



Which only makes it seem he wants to make a safe opinion.

As a matter of fact, he didn't even ask our opinion on how scummy we thought cello was, just our opninion on his idea.

Unvote
Vote: Nicholas

FoS: Xonar
if I haven't already
This is Exhibit B, where you vote me shortly afterwards.

Not the most clear-cut Oh-my-gosh-you-suck ever (as I didn't vote), but it's there.
 

Nicholas1024

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
1,075
Anyone else notice that up until recently, Paprika Killer and Overswarm's play were eerily similar?

Step 1:
Attack Cello's mass-train/mass-search idea in a way that implies (or outright says in Paprika's case) that you find him scummy.

Step 2:
When I post my list (in which I say that both TPK and OS find Cello scummy), back up and say that you don't think Cello's scummy, just dumb town.

Step 3:
Attack Nicholas1024 about said list.

And finally, a little bit of divergence,

Step 4:
Fail attempt at distancing.

I'm feeling heavy scum reads from both of them.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I already had that FoS on you remember? I also bring up an actual point against you in "exhibit B" before I vote.

there is a difference between an OMGUS vote and a "not so well argumented" vote.
 

Nicholas1024

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
1,075
Another update of the list:

Xonar: Didn't object to mass search, but said he wouldn't trust Cello with a dragonball. Not sure if he finds Cello scummy or not.
Jungle:
Rockin: Disagrees with the idea, doesn't find Cello scummy.
Clownbot:
Kataefi:
The paprika killer: Horrible idea, thinks Cello's scum. Backpedals later and claims not to.
Nicholas1024: Definitely not, but I think I know what Cello's up to.
Swordsrbroken: Doesn't think Cello's scummy, I don't think he gave an opinion on Cello's idea though.
Mentosman8: Against the idea, is uncomfortable with Cello saying he'll hang on to the dragonballs.
Meta-kirby:
Super smash bros. fan: Said Cello hasn't commited a scumtell. I don't think he said yes/no to the idea yet.
Overswarm: No^(infinity + 1) and Cello = superdumb.
Sold2: Doesn't support the plan, but doesn't find Cello scummy.
Hilt: No. Finds Cello slightly scummy due to offering to hold onto the dragonballs.
Cello_marl: Proposed the idea.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
lol your interpretation of "no read" is "doesn't find cello scummy", on sold2.
 

DtJ S2n

Stardog Champion
BRoomer
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I agree Overswarm's post wasn't that big, Hilt. But think of it this way.... he was just telling Cello he was wrong. What if Overswarm tries to launch a full out assualt on someone day 4 or something? It would stretch all the way into next week, god dangit!

Just to emphasize my point.
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8974886&postcount=281
from Newbie 3. Ronike explains very nicely here. I'd also like to point out that I was the scum in this game, and I almost got FrozenFlame, the strongest town player there imo, quick lynched by milking these arguments that nobody could follow.
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10101800&postcount=1587
from Unintended Consequences. Scamp was indy here but we agreed with Scamp about this, so it doesn't matter lol. Mushy brains!

@TPK, I said that his interpretation was correct. He didn't change what it said, so it's alright.
 

Nicholas1024

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Messages
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*shrug*. Not the way I've used it. And I'm not sure if that's the way other people use it or not.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
w/e I just noticed.

and OS actually answered (and ridiculed) most of Cello's posts.

speaking of which, where'd he go?
 

Nicholas1024

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
1,075
Hm, although I'm the #1 proponent of TPK = scum, I don't really like a lot of the hate he's gotten from various sources. The reason for this is that a lot of the attacks simply don't make any sense.

For example...

Wow TPK, I don't like your vibes at all.
Vote: TPK

He has a theory, let him do what he wants to do. You're also mass buddying Cello, me not like.
Most of this is fine, but TPK has not mass buddied Cello. What he did was he called Cello scummy and backed up on it when I put it in my list.

Also,

I'm not a fan of his current "ride the wagon" mentality. After one person moves, he feels free to move. Overall agree w/ Xonar.

FoS: Paprika
TPK had FOS'd me before you moved against me. Also, in his voting post he brings up a reason that you didn't.


Just wanted to bring this up: Telling us how many times you've voted for him and how much you think his plan sucks doesn't exactly make you cleared. The only way to clear you (and not even fully then) would be if you were on a Cello wagon that ended in a lynch flip Mafia. V_V
(MetaKirby then FOS's TPK in the next post.)
This doesn't make any sense, as TPK points out shortly afterwards, he was responding to Xonar's accusation of buddying Cello.


The Xonar one I'm mostly fine with, I think Xonar just got confused or something. However, I do not like the OS or the MetaKirby attacks. I'm completely fine with attacking TPK, don't get me wrong. However, I do not like these awful reasons for doing so.

@Rockin
Really? You're going to call me out for putting stuff into a list that people have stated in the thread, but not even notice TPK completely contradicting himself?
 

#HBC | ZoZo

Shocodoro Blagshidect
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Yeah TPK wasn't buddying but also distancing and I accidently took it both as the same.

Don't get the resistance to Nick's plan, just let the guy do his job man.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
lolwut, that's a first xonar :p

the thing is I don't get what he wants with the list. he mentioned using it for scumhunting and building cases later. but you don't actually have to take a stance here.
 

Nicholas1024

Smash Lord
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Messages
1,075
@TPK
Are you referring to this?


As far as your question goes on the matter, I'm not in much agreement to the mass dragon ball/training plan, only cause of the problems that Overswarm stated. Whether this makes Cello scummy or not is too early to know, as this'll be my second time playing with him in a mafia game.
Rockin told us his opinion on Cello's idea, and hasn't yet decided on Cello. I'll ask him again in another day or two. Don't worry, I won't let him slide on that. I do however, need to fix that in my list.

Repost of list:

Xonar: Didn't object to mass search, but said he wouldn't trust Cello with a dragonball. Not sure if he finds Cello scummy or not.
Jungle:
Rockin: Disagrees with the idea, hasn't yet decided if Cello's scummy or not.
Clownbot:
Kataefi:
The paprika killer: Horrible idea, thinks Cello's scum. Backpedals later and claims not to.
Nicholas1024: Definitely not, but I think I know what Cello's up to.
Swordsrbroken: Doesn't think Cello's scummy, I don't think he gave an opinion on Cello's idea though.
Mentosman8: Against the idea, is uncomfortable with Cello saying he'll hang on to the dragonballs.
Meta-kirby:
Super smash bros. fan: Said Cello hasn't commited a scumtell. I don't think he said yes/no to the idea yet.
Overswarm: No^(infinity + 1) and Cello = superdumb.
Sold2: Doesn't support the plan, but doesn't find Cello scummy.
Hilt: No. Finds Cello slightly scummy due to offering to hold onto the dragonballs.
Cello_marl: Proposed the idea.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
more like sold2: "no read" nothing against him, but scum could just all say "no read" or "slightly leaning scum/town". I think a more explicit list like "do you think cello is scum, answer yes/no only." would yield more result
 
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