Nice Point Mafia Day 6 (5/8 to Lynch, Deadline: Saturday the 19th at Midnight)

[#HBC | ZoZo]

People can hardly make a hard stance this early based on 1 action.

 

[Nicholas1024]

They either find him scummy, or not scummy. I would be rather surprised if someone had a town read on him for what he's done.

 

[DtJ S2n]

I'd have to go innocent until proven guilty with that one, TPK.
I don't take a strong stance about it because there is no strong reason to.

 

[Deleted member]

Sold2, don't sweat it, it was just an example. I'll just see what nich can do with this list since discussing it like this is starting to be time wasting (yes it was my fault)

 

[Nicholas1024]

Actually, Overswarm had a hand in it to. Besides, I'm very satisfied with the reactions I got from you and OS about it. If I get nothing else from it, I'd still consider it a success.

 

[Deleted member]

OMG, this game went fast. Looks like I'm going to have to play catch-up! Hopefully, a more meaty post will come by later (Will most likely be an quote-fest).

 

[Overswarm]

I agree Overswarm's post wasn't that big, Hilt. But think of it this way.... he was just telling Cello he was wrong. What if Overswarm tries to launch a full out assualt on someone day 4 or something? It would stretch all the way into next week, god dangit!

Just to emphasize my point.
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8974886&postcount=281
from Newbie 3. Ronike explains very nicely here. I'd also like to point out that I was the scum in this game, and I almost got FrozenFlame, the strongest town player there imo, quick lynched by milking these arguments that nobody could follow.
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10101800&postcount=1587
from Unintended Consequences. Scamp was indy here but we agreed with Scamp about this, so it doesn't matter lol. Mushy brains!

@TPK, I said that his interpretation was correct. He didn't change what it said, so it's alright.

If you're not willing to read big posts, you might wanna start a band wagon on me right now. Seriously. I don't play around.

And yes, I'll use post count as a determiner of activity. That's exactly what it is. If someone's really low on that list, I'm gonna look at their posts and see what they're giving us. If someone's really high on that list, I've seen their posts and already know what I need to know. I'm not some mindless robot will say "let's vote for this guy because he has the least posts".


TPK: Sometimes people leave their computers. I for one leave work at 4:30 p.m. EST and then do whatever the hell I feel like for the rest of the day. If you think I'm avoiding the thread, check my account and look for "last activity".


I'm disappointed in that the best players in this game aren't posting. Mentos, Hilt, Meta-Kirby, get the ball rolling on something. I really want to get the ball out of Nicholas' court, because he's kind of leading us in circles all around one player that is more than likely just playing poorly.

Prolly be back later tonight if I get bored of Starcraft 2 :D

Unvote

 

[Deleted member]

I meant Cello, after his "plan" he seem to have left. still posting in Stump mafia though

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Has he not posted at all since then?

Vote: Cello

What gives?

Cello wagon go go :D

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I'm disappointed in that the best players in this game aren't posting. Mentos, Hilt, Meta-Kirby, get the ball rolling on something.

Lol

100laughs

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Don't expect to make big post on game mechanics in the beginning and how we should take advantage of it and lurk the rest of the day when the real scumhunting starts

 

[DtJ Hilt]

^at cello of course, haha

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Also yeah what xonar said XD

 

[Clownbot]

@Nick: Disagree with Cello's plan. Is it a scumtell? No.

**** school. After spending half my day there I come back and there's so much more information in this game to digest. Furthermore, **** text walls. No BS, I seriously think they make me play worse :'(

If there are any other specific points anyone wants me to cover I can get right to it. The only slight scumtell I've gotten from reviewing the thread is from TPK. I'm still not liking SSBF but I'll give him a chance to actually contribute.

 

[Kataefi]

Nich I don't trust cello with the dragonballs based on the responsibility he held in Grammys2, in which he killed me! very interested in this post btw...

Besides, I'm very satisfied with the reactions I got from you and OS about it. If I get nothing else from it, I'd still consider it a success.

the reactions weren't complete in your list - how could they be successful? success is certainty - what is successful about your reads on PK and Swarm based on an incomplete list?

Swords that townie points thing wasn't targeted at you.

I'll respond to others soon but it's my berfday tomorrow so I won't be on most likely all day

 

[Kataefi]

actually who am I kidding I'm not going to be on at all

 

[Overswarm]

Well uh... Happy Birthday Kataefi.

 

[Dark_Ermac]

actually who am I kidding I'm not going to be on at all

*holds up flashing neon arrow pointed at self*

Just saying...

*runs off, never to post here and disturb the game again*

 

[Nicholas1024]

Nich I don't trust cello with the dragonballs based on the responsibility he held in Grammys2, in which he killed me! very interested in this post btw... the reactions weren't complete in your list - how could they be successful? success is certainty - what is successful about your reads on PK and Swarm based on an incomplete list?

I'd consider it a success because of the reactions TPK and Overswarm posted against my list. They both reacted by attacking me in a scummy manner, and gave me something to go off of. That's why I'd consider it a success.

 

[Overswarm]

I'd consider it a success because of the reactions TPK and Overswarm posted against my list. They both reacted by attacking me in a scummy manner, and gave me something to go off of. That's why I'd consider it a success.

Calling someone an idiot for doing something that is stupid isn't exactly scummy.

 

[Deleted member]

This sucks. My massive quote-post is in ruins due to my computer acting like an *** or something like that. Which is why I'm behind. However, I can at least give my opinion on other people, since I have read up. With that said. let's go from towniest to the scummiest:

Me:

Super Smash Bros. Fan: 'cause I am. Okay, let's cut the joke and get to serious business.

Townies:

1. Nicholas1024

High Activity Level, High Content Level

Time to unvote, Nicholas1024 claims the top spot. I admire him for taking a lot of risks during the game and making significant contribuation to the game. He's been active as of today and has made a strong case on The Paprika Killer. I have an very strong town read on him.

2. Overswarm:

High Activity Level, High Content Level

Another fantastic player in the game. He was a townie in my image from the moment he made his first serious post. That post was the reason why we've managed to accumulate so much success from this game. Not to mention having an very strong argument against Cello_Marl and proving the danger of what Cello_Marl's suggestions could do. However, he has slightly declined in quality. Ever since we've moved on to pure scum hunting, I haven't seen him around too much. Plus I really don't like his suggestion on killing the inactives first. Neverthless, he still has a strong town read.

3. Mentosman8:

Low-Mid Activity Level, Moderate Content Level

Not the most active in the game, but he has posted a lot of substances in all of his posts (Aside from his random vote, but we can excuse that). They contain very good arguments and actually encourage people to actually move on to important stuffs in Mafia games. I have a town read on him.

4. Sold2:

Medium Activity Level, Moderate Content Level

He could be a bit more active now, but he's still a good player. He posts a fair amount of contents in the game and like Mentos, he also made the suggestion to move out of unecessary discussions. However, he's not above Mentosman8 because he complained about very big posts. Sorry, but we're going to need them in this game. I have an considerable town read on him.

5. Hilt:

Low Actvity Level, Moderate Content Level

Another decent player in the game. I haven't seen many posts from him either, but he has done a fair share of scum hunting in this game. He made some very good points against Overswarm in this game. However, I'd apperciate if he did more then just respond to people, particularly Overswarm. I have an slight town read on him.

Null Reads:

To be honest, they haven't been acting scummy, but for most, I want to hear more out of them:

6. Rockin:

Low Activity Level, Low-Mid Content Level

The top of my null read list. Now I know he's a good player, but I'm looking for more out of him. Sure he's done a bit of scum hunting, but not much. I will admit that he has made a couple of good posts throughout the game. However, he has been inactive. I have an null read that'll lean toward town if he'll contribute more.

7. Meta-Kirby:

Low Activity Level, Low Content Level

Nothing really suspicious pops out of my head of him now, but I have noticed that he has not doe much scum hunting in the game, plus being relatively inactive. However, he has posted some substances in his posts, so he's getting an null read.

8. Clownbot:

Low Activity Level, Low Content Level

He was looking OK yesterday, but like me, we dropped the bomb in activity during most of today because of school. However, aside from a vote on me, he has done almost nothing in terms of scum hunting. He also hasn't posted much too much substance in the game. However, I'll give him the benefit of a doubt and give him an null read.

9. SwordsRbroken:

Low Activity Level, Low Content Level

He's meh to me. He has posted a little in the game, but like most people, we haven't seen much from him. He has also done almost no scum hunting in the game. SwordsRbroken hosted Smash Bros. Mafia, so I'm not going to excuse this. However, he hasn't really commited any form of scum tells, but I am starting to lean toward a scum read unless he post some serious contents.

10. Kataefi:

Low-Mid Activity Level, Low Content Level

He would be above SwordsRbroken, since he has done a little scum hunting, but he has commited one scum tell from my eyes.

When we were in a serious discussion, Kataefi random voted me without giving any good reasons. I'm calling BS on this because that should be used during the Random Voting Stage. I find him neutral-scummy (Null read reading toward scum).

11. Junglefever:

Very Low Activity Level, Almost No Contents Level

For the love of god, post something. You have contributed almost nothing to the game. I have an neutral-scum read.

Scummy Images:

12. Cello_Marl:

Low Activity Level, Low-Mid Content Level

None of his posts have been particularly scummy, but they do consist of very, very, bad ideas that can really hamper the townies if we were to follow them. When combining them, it makes me a little suspicious of him. Plus, he has not posted today as well, a feat that Junglefever is also guilty of. Overall, I'm getting suspicious of Cello_Marl.

13. The Paprika Killer:

Moderate Activity Level, Low-Mid Content Level

When The Paprika Killer was getting in the game, his first few posts were OK. However, he took an massive downfall with his argument against Nicholas1024.

Originally, he voted Cello_Marl for Cello's idea being horrible and it was very scummy. Later, The Paprika Killer contradicted himself and skimmed at the same thing. Not only that, he was responsible for not one, but two OMGUS replies that weren't really necessary and didn't contribute much to the game. I have an fairly scummy read on him.

14. Xonar:

Mild Activity Level, Low Content Level

I'm sorry, but he hasn't been playing well at all. First off, he posted a decent amount of fluff. People may argue I'm worse at this, but at least #132 was a giant fluff and my fluff isn't scattered all over the thread (Blame school). His idea of false trading with other people to see who had the Dragonballs is also a dangerous idea, as it gives scums idea on who to kill.

I'd also like to know that on the exact same posts, he's been guilty of mod killable offenses, which I'm not going to excuse. He's also guilty of OMGUS voting on The Paprika Killer with his reasons not being very good.

And there you have it. Hope you enjoyed the analysis and with that all said:

Vote: Xonar
HoS: The Paprika Killer
FoS: Cello_Marl

 

[Clownbot]

OS, who are you actually finding suspicious? Is Nich scum or just dumb (in your opinion, because I rather disagree with your thoughts in this whole argument with him)?

 

[Clownbot]

SSBF, I could have sworn that in, like, every game I've played with you it's been said not to post a "town-to-scum" list including everyone.

 

[DtJ S2n]

Let me go further with what Clownbot is saying. Posting your top suspect is good. Top 2 or 3 is alright if you need to. Going through the whole list is just a bad idea. You're just telling scum how they should be acting to seem townie to you, who they should night kill, and who's safe to lynch. I believe someone else has already said this in this thread.

=/

 

[Cello_Marl]

First, softly, Nicholas, if you think I'm trying to suggest something like Popcorn in Stump, you're wrong. I really do want to go all-search.

Second, harshly, I'm really ****ing tired of stupid mother****ers calling every ****ing idea that I have dumb-or-scum. Whether you're scum or town, you morons don't even bother deducing my motives. Because that's too much work. It's worse when scum does it, because they justify it as, "Oh, well that's just part of the game" and believe it's true.

Third, TPK questioned my "disappearance" less than 10 hours after my last post. That's hardly disappearing, especially since I was at work for 7 of those hours. If you want to know what I was doing the rest of that time, it was leaving my computer and beating people's ***** at SF4 because I needed to cool off after reading "dumb" and "Cello" said together so many times. Again. And again. Game after game after game.

The problem is in getting one person to have all of the Balls at one time, NOT WHO POSSESSES THEM. The reason for this is that there is only one viable wish: Revive a townie. Night immunity, bringing in another player, other conceivable extra powers; all of these are innately selfish and cannot be corroborated as beneficial for town, and the very action of making such a wish casts doubt on the wisher. If scum chooses to make such a wish, then they will sacrifice a team member for such a benefit, which is a dear price to pay so early.

Execution and trust were the two major issues. How about we go about this this way?
Everyone searches. We can reasonably expect to find all the Balls in at the very least 2 tries, and probably 1. If at least 3 Balls are brought forth, we can very likely test the veracity of every other player's claim, given that 4 scum players on a single team is extremely unlikely in a 15 player game.

The key to this is that we do the Ball pass, but we must do it in a certain sequence. Two people that came forward hold onto their Balls. The third person then passes it to the next person in the player list, who passes it on, who passes it on, and so on, each person declaring how many Balls he or she received/passed on. This makes lying about your Balls futile; if you can't pass them on, then we'll know that you have the ability to privately communicate and gave them to someone else. By having two claimants hold their Balls, we know that any given person in the chain is not aligned with those two people, since they could not chance being caught unable to pass on their Ball. Hopefully, everyone will be honest and pass their Balls on. But, if they do not, that's fine because...

This is a very long and drawn out process. However, the fact that scum will collectively out themselves all at once if they lie makes the process worth it, and virtually guarantees that everyone will play Ball (and reinforces why townies should not hold back Balls).

If we somehow do not find all the Balls, we will at least have them be secure as I can hold onto them overnight, as Hilt surmised, for I am Bulletproof (more or less). This alleviates any potential disaster in having scum Night Kill some random person that had a Dragon Ball. If you all prefer, during the Day, someone else can hold onto them, and I'll just hold onto them at Night.

If someone else wants to make the wish, then I'll be glad to hand them over, when I have six and someone else has the seventh.

Why should we do this? It ensures the Balls are used for our sakes. Yes, it would be great if we could do it later and reap a "greater" benefit from it, but just like Vote-powered Village Idiot in Miller's, it is easiest and least risky to do it now. If we let scum make the wish late-game, they may find it effective to reveal themselves by making an obviously anti-town wish, such as bringing another player into the game (presumably, this player will be the alignment of the wisher, else the wish is hardly "game-breaking"). 4v2, for example would become 3v2, then 2v1, instead of the 5v2 it would have been if a townie was revived. This situation is more likely than the simple town-to-mafia ratio, since they can acquire any Balls we possess by killing us at Night. The longer the game goes and we have no idea who has what Balls, the more likely scum will have acquired them all. This is why I initially soft-claimed (and tried to cover it by saying there's probably a doctor, since I wasn't sure it was the best idea), and why I'm offering to hold them now.

I'm a Hated (sort of, but not really. I can die from lower vote amounts than usual) Bulletproof Lover. Those are the closest approximations of what my abilities are without revealing information I should not. I also cannot be raised by the Dragon Balls, probably because I have already died.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Going into what people have said.

@OS: Concerning "all-search", if scum chooses training, then yes, they gain additional powers, but that's why good old-fashioned scum hunting is so darned useful. All the training in the world can't stop the combined will of 51% or more of the group. Further, such a scenario would be excellent indeed, since it would mean town gets all the Dragon Balls. Your problem with all-search boils down to "Scum might get them (search) or gain strength (train)". Well, yes, that's available to everyone. It's how the game works. Further, "We can't trust anyone to make the wish" just isn't accurate. At best, we get a confirmed townie back. At worst (which is probably "bring a new player into the game", we get a successful cop detect at the cost of two Night Kills, and just one Night Kill if we have a Vigilante.

Concerning "all-training", your doubts about being able to whip town into shape and keeping them in line are ill-founded. Most of these players know what I'll do to a town if they disagree with my plans after majority agrees. Also, stop making obviously incorrect assumptions about my plans. Of course, our actions are not posted; that portion is in reference to Ball-Cop Bulma. Yes, we don't know for certain that Bulma can examine our Balls, but there's no reason to not improve the usefulness of that ability, if it should exist, since it costs us nothing to do so, if we choose to go all-train.

Concerning the wish itself, I address that in previous portions of this post. We know for a fact that A) a townie will almost assuredly be dead by then, and B) the wish can be used to revive a person. By letting the wisher know, without doubt, that he or she will be lynched if he or she doesn't make that wish prevents or curbs any abuse. Part of the power of using the wish is preventing scum from using it later, as it's more likely than not just a one-time thing. Further, your example is unreasonable, prejudicial by personifying stances (how is any anti-town going to "punch us in the gut"? I'm obviously BP, and now we know that the wish is instant, so there is no fear of gank by Night Kill), and out of the scope of this game. "Game-breaking" to these mods doesn't mean "Instant Win". Scum cannot gain an unkillable character. I know this because Tom and Xiivi had a hand in creating this game. If you argue against this point, then it can only be for the sake of argument.

Concerning your concern over "crippling Bulma", just no. That section is just so overreaching and hypocritical it makes me retch. Who's speculating now? How would such an ability be awesome? Any Balls such a Bulma would get would be taken by anyone that ganked her. It just increases risk.

Concerning your comments on the town-scum division, you have both grossly oversimplified how we would observe results. First, we'd hardly just start lynching anyone without a Dragon Ball if we went "All-search". We would, however, lynch anyone that was found to have a Ball when they claimed they didn't. Further, I find it interesting that have a problem with "removing training OR dragon balls from the game and [creating] a whooooole lot of wild goose chases.", yet earlier state that "everyone training...is a sound one [idea]".

Enforcing strict martial law destroys any hypothetical "scum safe zone". Don't go against it. Just don't do it. Ask Swords, Rockin, and SSBF what will happen.

I don't remember saying we'd only search or train for the whole game. If we chose to search, then once we found the Balls and used them, there may be no reason to continue to search for them, at which point we'd mass train. I will personally search one more time due to Ronike's answer, and see if the Balls are stone or jeweled, and you or anyone else would like to join me as a check (in the unlikely event you are still alive), then feel free to. If they were still jeweled, getting a free resurrection each Day...even if we can't raise the same person, why the hell wouldn't we want that?!

@Mentos: Supposedly, you understand my thought processes. Did you not see what I was doing, or did you not care? Why did you not try to ascertain what it was? Why do you support people doing whatever they want, since you think we have no idea how this works? How are we supposed to know what's best if we are blind? I want you dead, now.

About your reference to Harry Potter: wasn't that game essentially half-adventure, half-mafia? This game has a significantly smaller player base, many actions were debilitating in nature rather than lethal, and having locations in HP is very different than what we have here. Your reasoning here is even more baseless than OS thought mine was.

Scum is going to kill someone. It happens. That person will have either trained, or found a Dragon Ball. Unless you magically turn into a Doctor that can protect everyone every Night, then it's much more effective to turn your attention to remedies or other forms of prevention.

@Swords: How does something being interesting have any bearing on what is most effective and/or efficient?

@Hilt: Tell me honestly; Did you somehow really think that I would risk both my life and ALL of our Balls so frivolously? Actually, there is an advantage to focusing. If some Balls are in play, then that means scum may happen upon them by virtue of Night Killing. If there are none in play on town's side (mass-train), we can't lose them. If we acquire them all at once and immediately use them, then we can't lose them.

Xonar and Nick are Good People, and Overswarm and Mentos need to die.

 

[Overswarm]

OS, who are you actually finding suspicious? Is Nich scum or just dumb (in your opinion, because I rather disagree with your thoughts in this whole argument with him)?

Just dumb. I don't know who scum is yet, but I know they're being quiet. I'd be surprised if Cello or Nicholas were scum at the moment. It could be they're both dumb AND scum, but I doubt it. No one is going to come in and say "everyone should give me the dragon balls" when they are scum, they wouldn't draw attention to themselves. Nicholas doesn't make any sense and tried to set up a scenario where only town could lose, but I doubt this was a scum play.

Need more posts from inactives.

Vote Rockin

Post, people. Don't care 'bout what. Tell me your favorite flavor of ice cream.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Edit Post #265 By Post:

We'd have to repeat this process with every pair: Xonar and Jungle, Xonar and Rockin, Xonar and Clownbot...Jungle and Rockin, Jungle and Clownbot...and so on, ending with Hilt and myself.

 

[Overswarm]

Cello, you take a really long time to make an OMGUS vote.

How about you stop fantasizing about Bulma and how your Dragon Ball Z mafia game would work and go off what we know?

If you have extra information we don't, by all means, do something about it. But right now you just look like a walking viability to the town. You've literally stated, then followed through, on your strategy of "vote for whoever disagrees with me". It's basically the worst town play I've seen, and we have SSBF in this game.

 

[mentosman8]

First of all, I've forgotten to Unvote

Yeah, don't put words into my mouth Nicholas1024. I think Cello is closer to stupid than scum at the moment.



I'm going to be focusing most of my efforts on killing people that are inactive or don't contribute much.

User Name Posts
Overswarm 25
Super Smash Bros. Fan 25
The Paprika Killer 16
Ronike 15
Xonar 14
Nicholas1024 13
Cello_Marl 11
Clownbot 11
Meta-Kirby 9
mentosman8 9
Kataefi 8
SwordsRbroken 7
Sold2 5
Dark_Ermac 5
Rockin 5
Hilt 4
Junglefever 4
Xiivi 2
Gheb_01 1


If you're low on this list and playing, post more. I'll lynch you otherwise, there will be no dead weight.

Really OS? You're posting an activity list within a couple days of D1 starting? This is kind of disturbing. Sure, if we're a week, week and a half in, and people haven't posted much, then it's something to look at. The game hasn't even been active long enough for someone to have received a prod without posting all game. Way too early to be discussing activity, and this looks like feigning scumhunting to me at this point.

OS, I hope you're not trying to decide activity by post count. If so, howabout I make a bunch of 1 liner posts like other players do, instead of a decent sized post? Also OS, if you're going to disassemble Cello's plan piece by piece, that's cool and all but try to keep it moderately sized... big posts are not good for town, imo. They cause disinterest and confusion, letting scum slip by easier while losing town. Use key arguments, not a pile of them.

@Nich. Your interpretation of my opinion on Cello is correct. "Don't agree, no read."

@Hilt, why does it matter? I originally thought OS was agreeing with the bandwagoning point, and I'm sure that's what he meant. I see where you're coming from Hilt, but you've got your answer. I shouldn't answer someone else's question but this is dumb.

While I'm glad you called out the activity thing, definitely not for the right reasons. Activity by post count is a very good thing to pay attention to: a couple days into the game. Most of D1, it's worthless, but later on it can be helpful. Also, big posts aren't bad for town, nor the game. I've made plenty of big posts, and plenty of small posts in my time, and they're both effective for different situations.

If you're not willing to read big posts, you might wanna start a band wagon on me right now. Seriously. I don't play around.

And yes, I'll use post count as a determiner of activity. That's exactly what it is. If someone's really low on that list, I'm gonna look at their posts and see what they're giving us. If someone's really high on that list, I've seen their posts and already know what I need to know. I'm not some mindless robot will say "let's vote for this guy because he has the least posts".


TPK: Sometimes people leave their computers. I for one leave work at 4:30 p.m. EST and then do whatever the hell I feel like for the rest of the day. If you think I'm avoiding the thread, check my account and look for "last activity".


I'm disappointed in that the best players in this game aren't posting. Mentos, Hilt, Meta-Kirby, get the ball rolling on something. I really want to get the ball out of Nicholas' court, because he's kind of leading us in circles all around one player that is more than likely just playing poorly.

Prolly be back later tonight if I get bored of Starcraft 2 :D

Unvote

You point out that sometimes people leave their computers, then go on to call out people for not having many posts. As I said, it's BARELY into D1, those two somewhat contradict. Also, if you're looking for an incredibly high amount of posts from me, you're not likely to get it. I tend to respond to things in chunks, unless I'm either in a direct argument, or on the rare occasions where I have nothing going on and can just pay attention to the game for a time straight. Unless I'm in a position to take a lead, there's no reason to try to overflow with posts.

Let me go further with what Clownbot is saying. Posting your top suspect is good. Top 2 or 3 is alright if you need to. Going through the whole list is just a bad idea. You're just telling scum how they should be acting to seem townie to you, who they should night kill, and who's safe to lynch. I believe someone else has already said this in this thread.

=/

This. While admittedly it's not harmful unless the player is town, if everyone gave their opinions on every player, the scum then has a list of exactly where they stand, who is most trusted and needs to die, and who looks worst and they can push a bit. The other problem that hasn't been mentioned, is trying to give your opinion on everyone spreads you too thin, and there's not as much weight to accusations, which makes them less effective.

Now, I've yet to make any kind of attempt at a case on anyone yet, but there's really not much to have a solid read yet. I do agree with Nick that OS's backtracking on his opinion of Cello doesn't look good, and I don't like his attempt at activity policing so early. Looking forward to hearing more from Jungle.

 

[Overswarm]

Again. And again. Game after game after game.

If one person calls you a horse, ignore them.

If two people call you a horse, give them weird looks.

If three people call you a horse, buy a ****ing saddle.

I'm a Hated (sort of, but not really. I can die from lower vote amounts than usual) Bulletproof Lover. Those are the closest approximations of what my abilities are without revealing information I should not. I also cannot be raised by the Dragon Balls, probably because I have already died.

I take back the statement about Cello not being scum. It is entirely possible. I'm still not sure since there isn't enough backstory, but he's literally done nothing but bad moves or untrustworthy moves since the start of the game.

"Hey guys, everyone look for dragon balls and give them to me! I can't be night killed, if you kill me someone else will die, but also don't vote for me because I can die from fewer votes!"

That literally covers all of your bases, and I don't like that at all.

FoS: Cello

 

[Overswarm]

You point out that sometimes people leave their computers, then go on to call out people for not having many posts. As I said, it's BARELY into D1, those two somewhat contradict. Also, if you're looking for an incredibly high amount of posts from me, you're not likely to get it. I tend to respond to things in chunks, unless I'm either in a direct argument, or on the rare occasions where I have nothing going on and can just pay attention to the game for a time straight. Unless I'm in a position to take a lead, there's no reason to try to overflow with posts.

I look at people's activity. There are players reading this thread and not posting at all; I keep tabs of them open often and see their activities while looking at the thread, and several of them have looked at this thread, said nothing, came back, said nothing, repeat over and over again. Everyone can post. It's a pretty easy way to find which people are going to be straight up inactive, lurkers that post only when its safe/beneficial (Helloooooooo Hilt), people that visit often and post fluff, and people that visit often and pick fights and ask questions.

Everyone posts.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Cello, you take a really long time to make an OMGUS vote.

I almost forgot that part. Vote OS
Actually, I'm voting for you because you contradict yourself at several points, especially when you said mass-training was "sound". You'll also note that I do NOT advocate voting for people that disagree with the plan, just those that refuse to carry it out when the time comes. Right now, I'm more interested in convincing those people of the usefulness of this plan. And killing scum. You. If we lynch scum, then we can significantly reduce the amount of time necessary to go through the Ball loop.
I usually take several hours to make a post. I started those around 5ish and added as I read. I took out a good deal of repeated material though.

How about you stop fantasizing about Bulma and how your Dragon Ball Z mafia game would work and go off what we know?

Where did I once mention anything about Bulma or roles in my plans in #265 and #266? If you're going to dispute something, at least know what you're talking about.

Half of the Bulma-fantasizing claims you said I made were OS-originals; those were also the ones that made no sense, oddly enough, like:

Hell, let's say you took a shot in the dark and managed to be right: Bulma is in this game and she gets some crazy dragon ball bonus. She has a chance to find two a night, she finds one 100% every night, she can search and train simultaneously, she can steal dragon balls from other players, she has a radar that tells her who is holding dragon balls, etc., etc. Whatever. If the entire town searched for dragon balls, her special ability would now be useless since they're all in play. You'd be crippling what would have been an awesome town ability.

Where did I once suggest stealing, double actions, or double searching? I haven't. You were the one that suggested these fantastic abilities, and that I was somehow crippling them. Why are you speculating like this anyway, if you disagree with that concept so much?

That literally covers all of your bases, and I don't like that at all.

It's what I am. Of course, since you're a proponent of "do whatever you like, it's all good", you'd be perfectly fine with some people giving me Dragonballs then someone else accidentally hammering me, wouldn't you?

Duh, no. Prevention > cure.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Also, that's specifically in the plans for "all-search". The portion in which I mention Ball-Cop is in "all-train", which I don't support unless we (somehow) decide against "all-search".

 

[DtJ S2n]

D1 and we already have an odd claim... May I ask why exactly you claimed so unpressured, Cello?
I hate OS for making that ball-cop joke. Can't stop lol'ing at Cello now.

I'm digesting the plan. Still wish we knew more about game mechanics before we did it... but the earlier the better sounds like a right idea.

 

[mentosman8]

@Cello: I understood your motivations through most of what you were saying. Then you suggested holding on to the balls, and it didn't look good at all. Secondly, I say everyone does their own thing because we don't know people's roles. What if people have characters with restrictions, that they can get rid of by training? On the flip side, what if there are characters who are guaranteed to find a ball when searching? By letting people do as they see fit, we're making educated decisions from information not publicly available. Instead of saying "we can do this or this, but we're all going to do this" into "we can do this or this, but based on what I know from my character, I should do this." or "but since I have no extra information, I'll go with X side since people seem to agree to it." Obviously, the second set of questions proves more beneficial in total than forcing people to disregard information they have that others do not.

Yes, HP mafia was like an action adventure mix, but the prospect still stands. Someone who trains and gains a daykill can make a difference, especially if scum don't know it exists. It's unlikely a single person would find seven dragonballs hidden, but if, say, a town vig killed and got ahold of all 7 dragonballs by doing so, having it be a secret that they have them makes them a powerful weapon. Keeping the advantages we're gaining at night, be they dragonballs or abilities, a secret means the scum can't plan for them, which is to our adventure.

And to your last point, obviously, however, if scum don't know what they're getting, as I said they can't plan for what they hit. Did they hit a nilla who had searched to no avail, or a pr that had expanded it's abilities? By keeping actions a secret, scum is left in the dark, and that damages their biggest advantage.

Finally, your idea of the "best wish" is far and away not the best wish, unless an important pr is one of the dead townies. What if there's a wish available to reveal a scum publicly? Would you rather get a single townie back, or take out a confirmed scum? Once again you're making decisions before we have the information.

 

[Overswarm]

Wait, aren't Lovers generally Masons?

 

[DtJ S2n]

Mentos I'm just gonna say real quick that if someone revealed scum publicly, it would be REALLY hard for them to try and lie about what wish they used, and I'm very sure town would understand lol...

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Cello, we're all smart people here. Let's let everyone do what they think is best for their role at night and stop trying to play too much into the setup.

 

[Cello_Marl]

@S2: I think it's best to claim everything that I am rather than seem like I'm tacking stuff onto the end when it matters. Would you have believed me if I said I'm BP...then Hated...then Lover?

@Mentos: I suggested holding onto the Balls because I'm BP. We don't know for sure there is a doctor(-like) role, but I know what I am. Besides, if I suddenly couldn't produce the Balls, then wouldn't that be an indicator that I used them for a wish, and should be lynched?

I've already addressed the points of everyone doing their own thing. As has been noted, all scum has to do is get one Ball when Town doesn't have a plan, and they can just toss it back and forth if they are about to get lynched. Town Ball Toss can sweep through and collect all the Balls in play on Day 2.

Finally, your idea of the "best wish" is far and away not the best wish, unless an important pr is one of the dead townies.

You can't possibly know this. Further, if multiple wishes are possibles by regathering the Balls, then we can have a different person make that wish to check against the first person.

@OS: Yes. I'm not answering any further inquiry into that.

@Hilt: Answer my question. I want to know what went through your head. Did you think I was that careless or stupid?