Nice Point Mafia Day 6 (5/8 to Lynch, Deadline: Saturday the 19th at Midnight)

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Yeah it's true, I haven't been all that helpful, I admit. But honestly, I feel like there isn't much to say right now beside my lynch targets.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Then talk about the points I had against Overswarm, Xonar. He apparently doesn't want to.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Xonar, on the other hand, says things that I FIND to BE impacting, however, he doesn't say all that much about them (i.e. explaining things).

Yo guys I just found this from mentos.
MK you think this is scummy? Also, if you think Overswarm and Cello are both scummy, do you think that there is just a slight chance in hell that they're partners?

Will get to more later cuz im gonna reread now seeing as I apparently missed a lot. Will only read the posts like 3 times each though, so I'll probably get back to it later.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Nich, as your plan has failed, could you tell us what it originally was?

 

[Overswarm]

Also, if you think Overswarm and Cello are both scummy, do you think that there is just a slight chance in hell that they're partners?

That would be the ballsiest move in hell and I would enjoy it thoroughly, hahahaha

But no, anyone that paid attention to TMNT mafia should be able to see I'm not exactly playing my cold and calculated game here. My goal is mostly to get people talking and have fun while doing it, and it's doing a good job.


Off work again! Later

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

all of it!--> did you stop to consider the possibility shooting cello would expose the vig?

depends on what type of vig PK --> some post actions in-thread to kill someone... and so this would expose them.

Cello thoughts on this?

Getting at your post soonish.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

First, to establish a fact. OS was the first person to mention anything at all about giving individual Balls, did so before any formal announcement, and claimed to have no knowledge of a rules change. The rules for trading were originally written: "Dragonballs may also be publically traded by posting the command Give Dragonballs to playername". How else could this be interpreted other than all your Balls? This means that he must have, at some point, spoken privately either with Ronike or a scummate and learned that Balls can be individually traded. Even if you don't accept that (since he claimed that he thought you could state individual numbers rather than just all, despite how it was written), then you must acknowledge that he knew/believed Balls could be individually traded.

Let me elaborate on my thoughts regarding this paragraph.
Ronike confirmed to me that the original rule included the 's' in dragonballs. So, OS indeed asked Ronike if individual balls could be traded.
As Cello is a lover, I highly doubt any other form of masonries to be in the game. That said, the standard masonry is SCUM. Nobody but scum/masonry would need to know if individual balls could be traded as it would be clumsy to only be able to give all balls in private. Yes, I'm aware that the rule is for ingame posting, but I assume that they asked if they could give individual balls to their partner, to which they pointed at the rule which stated that all the balls must be passed on. At this point, Ronike realised his mistake in wording and adjusted the rule.
So, what happened is:
Overswarm got his scum role, and read the rules, he read that he can only pass on all the balls at once and thought it was clumsy. Thus, he asked Ronike if he could give individual balls to his partners. As a reaction to this, Ronike asked why he asked it, and Overswarm pointed to the rule stating you can only give all of your balls. At this point, Ronike told him that he can give individual balls and adjusted the rules.
Is this close to your thoughts, Cello? I figured it was on the spot.

In the confirmation phase, OS begins by stating, "Self-hammering sounds like a good strategy to me if you're town and believe that mafia can hammer you. I just hope we don't have an executioner." Why would he suggest self-hammering as a viable strategy when he could suggest giving your Balls to other individuals? I will admit it is possible that "before the game began" refers to before Day 1 started, but that still doesn't explain why he let that statement remain unchanged once he learned this very important tidbit; in fact, he was still suggesting that we might use self-hammering even after his pennies analogy (which was also bad. After all, if someone refused to at least pass along the individual Ball we know that they'd have, that's one more lynched scum. I'll give a Ball away for lynching a scum any day).

Mhm, self hammering wasn't a viable strategy in the first place. The thing is, when someone hammers himself he is dead anyway, thus allowing him to pretty much do whatever he wants because he is dead anyway. If we said to self hammer because it would favor town (hypotheticly), it doesn't matter, because that person is gonna die anyway. If he's town, he's going to pass on his balls if he thinks that's the right thing to do.
Thing is, Cello, do you trust people enough to let them choose for themselves who they pass their balls to? It would be a good strategy if it wasn't for the fact that, like I explained, the guy will just do what he wants. If we say we'll lynch him but he must hand over his balls to X, Y and Z, he might just run off giving it to A, B and C, as they're his most town reads.
Your point about people not wanting to pass balls on is legit though.

It's getting late, I'm gonna take a break responding now and get to the rest later. I hope you liked the show so far.

 

[Cello_Marl]

@Kat: Why is an unknown vigilante more important than a confirmed BP? As long as I'm alive, I can hold onto all known Dragon Balls throughout the Day, then distribute them to various people before hammer to hold throughout the Night. Obviously, I couldn't hold onto them all overnight or else my Lover could get killed, but it solves any problems we'd have with who hammers (I would).

 

[Cello_Marl]

At this point, Ronike told him that he can give individual balls and adjusted the rules.

Close. I think OS was told that he could give individual balls, then incorrectly assumed that Ronike adjusted the rules, and so, casually made references to single trades. That's why I think he said "WTF @ Mod (i.e. his own words burying him was mod-error)".

Thing is, Cello, do you trust people enough to let them choose for themselves who they pass their balls to?

I trust myself to. I'm actually tempted to ask my Lover is he/she wants to out him/herself, trusting that there is a doctor-like to protect him/her so I can just go ahead and hold onto the Balls overNight. We don't need to worry about the Balls indefinitely, just for 4 or 5 Nights. If the doctor ever died, I'd stop holding onto the Balls, but still be trusted to gather and count them, then distribute them.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

While I agree with that, I don't think we should assume there is a doctor here. I honestly saw this training thing in pokemon mafia too, and there was no doc till he evolved, thus I'm not sure if we should go through with it.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

@Kat: Why is an unknown vigilante more important than a confirmed BP?

Because you aren't a confirmed BP.

 

[Deleted member]

he meant, why is keeping the vig unknown more important than getting confirmed he is BP.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Throw up your rawkfist if youre feeling it when i drop this

Next, we have his problem with my mass suggestions. The questions he asks about the mass suggestions are, by themselves, reasonable. But then you must wonder what his motives are for the answers he expects. "Unless your role has been given a lot of extra special information, I doubt you'd have any sort of gruond to stand on with this." Why was he trying to dig for character information? He had just told people to not character claim, but then asks questions and makes points that virtually beg me to give that very information. When asking for a "defense of my actions", what answers could he reasonably expect? Either I am privy to outside/character information which caused me to form those plans, or I'm not. Either answer would enable him to make a better guess as to which character I am, but does nothing in terms of actually determining my alignment.

My thoughts exactly. Really, this sounds like a parrot, but yeah.

For all of OS's bluster over "Ball-cop Bulma", he doesn't mention a single time the fact that SSBF said, "I'm thinking that we're using the characters as of the Majin Buu Saga." How could SSBF know such a thing? The obvious answer is that his character hails from that era; he's probably Young Trunks or Goten, given that he actually names them as masons. I believe that OS realized the same thing (it was pretty obvious), as you'll also note that he questions me about whether or not Lovers are essentially Masons. Why else would this question seem important enough to bring up in thread, instead of checking mafiascum, and worded the way it was? Answer: To fish for whether or not I was SSBF's partner. Why else would he not have berated SSBF for his first lengthy post? Answer: He already had the information that he needed, and didn't want to attract undue attention to what he was truly seeking; that SSBF is a mason.

After reading this, I went to my role PM, and apparently the link name of my picture clarifies that the character is from the Trunks Saga. I won't say more, but I think my character is in all of the series.
But this presents a good point, I feel bad for not picking up on his intention on this one though.

I can't even begin to cite every fear-mongering statement he's made about wishes, especially when it comes to his "worry" that some disastrous wish could single-handedly destroy town. He seems to think that making a wish is the victory condition, for all sides.

I agree that this is what some of his posts imply, but I agree that we should factor in the slight POSSIBILITY. It's game-breaking, after all, not an instant win, though.

All in all, like I said, the nail in OS's coffin.

 

[mentosman8]

I'll be working on my responses to Xonar now. Before I get started though, I'd like to point out that in 483, Xonar quoted something that I NEVER SAID and said "Yo guys I just found this from Mentos." Not even sure who that's from, but it's not me, and is not helping my thoughts of him any more than his massive bit*h-fest in response to my case. Oh, also,

I didn't have a case, I never said I have a case against mentos.

Shower then elaborate on Mentos.

lolwut?

Now on to my response making. If it doesn't take me as long as the original post, which it shouldn't, should be up within an hour.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

OPS MISTYPE

it was from MK
I blame tiredness.

Also, I later said that I didn't want to elaborate on you cuz of lazyness. sorry.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

Rockin, so far, i'm liking Mentos' case against Xonar. His defense basically said, "YOUR ARGUMENT SUCKS! " I'm thinking xonar to be scum, but i still think there are better targets to lynch like OS or TPK.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Rockin, so far, i'm liking Mentos' case against Xonar. His defense basically said, "YOUR ARGUMENT SUCKS! " I'm thinking xonar to be scum, but i still think there are better targets to lynch like OS or TPK.

Well his arguments did pretty much suck

 

[Clownbot]

@Ronike: I never voted Rockin, my vote is currently on SSBF

@Rockin: If someone between Mentos and Xonar is scum I'd say it's Xonar but I don't really think either of them should be lynched toDay.

 

[DtJ S2n]

I'll elaborate on Mentos when it's relevant, I currently don't want the discussion to get sidetracked.
On buddying cello, w/evs man, I'm sorry I agree with someone, won't do it again, mommy. I also don't give a flying **** about your 'meta' on Cello.

I wonder how anyone can still find Cello scummy, after playing several games with him I think I somewhat knows what goes on in his head. I'm really not liking Mentos atm, most of everyone. Unvote, Vote: Mentos
Cello, while I agree that OS isn't looking that good, don't you want to go with Mentos first?
I think most is said and done, there is no reason to just parrot Cello to gain 'town points'. Why would I shoot when the bullseye is already hit?

Someone other than Xonar tell me if I'm wrong, but this post sounds like a bit more than agreeing. Definitely buddying imo.

If you don't give a flying curseword about MY meta on Cello, when I'm the one to have either played in, watched, or modded 90% of the mafia games Cello has played, why should we listen to your meta on Cello? The only person here who's seen more of Cello's mafia style than I have is Hilt.

Never got around to explaining that vote on Mentos, and I suppose you don't plan to either. It's certainly relevant for you to. You're one of the top targets for a lynch, and the best thing for a townie with a wagon on him to do is to convince everyone someone else is scum.

I'd still like to hear a full response from you, xonar.

I'm also interested in sold2's thoughts on... everything.

Alright, I'll just throw out whatever I can remember off of memory, I don't feel like looking back atm.

I think that Cello's going to refute any disagreement there is about his plan any way he can. He's stubborn.
I've seen Cello try to recklessly rule over town like this as both town and scum, but based on the way he's taking points against him and somehow twisting them to look like the other guy is scum falls under his scummeta. But I feel his intentions are trying to help the town, so I'm split on alignment. I don't want to mess with him, so a simple "disagree" does fine when discussing his plan. I don't like how he went out and roleclaimed unpressured. I also don't like how everyone assumes that scum can't be bulletproof. This is reminding me of the plan Ryker pulled off in Secret of Roanoke as a bulletproof wolf.

But the idea of coordinating(all-search or just partial-search) searching or training does interest me. I want to wait until D2 before messing with that though, so that we have a more solid grasp of how it works.

Hilt vs Swords was dumb. Swords took a small misunderstanding and made a really big deal about it and I don't know what he's thinking.

I think the OS wagoners are trying too hard to think of OS as scummy. Also analyzing the rule changes and trying to make a case off it is entirely dumb.

I think at least half the players in this game need to organize their thoughts and start using logic.

tell me if theres anything specific I missed you want to hear about, but I think I got every significant event.

 

[Deleted member]

During the school day, I came up with two ideas that could actually help town quite a bit. I'll explain in detail.

1. Townies need to trade constantly with other people. Especially if you're about to get lynched. This doesn't apply today, but later on, it will be important. Let's say that seven Townies/Scums get all seven Dragonballs and each Townie/Scum gets one. Then when another person is fixing to get lynched on Day 2, the people with the Dragonball should trade the Dragonball to another person, therefore, scum will be confused on who to kill and they'll actually have to think. They won't have the "I have more then one Dragonball!" excuse to help them. If you're a townie fixing to get lynched and you have a Dragonball, (Like other said) trade with the person you trust the most. However, tell other people NOT to trade with that person because no one should get more then one Dragonball, for the Doctor (If there's any) will be forced to protect the townie. If there's no doctor/the doctor is dead, that person is most likely screwed. We need to continue this as long as possible.

Let's say that we do have five non-townies in the game. Assume this. If we get rid of at least two non-townie, we can start being comfortable with people holding multiple Dragonballs. Something like this:

Day 1: A scum is killed.
Night 1: Townies/scum collects all seven Dragonballs. One Townie dies.
Day 2: Near the end of Day 2, people with Dragonballs are forced to give up there Dragonballs, scum, independent, or townie. We kill scum.
Night 2: Townie dies. Scum collect balls from dead townie.
Day 3: Same process. However, we've managed to kill two-non townies so it's safe for two people to hold two Dragonballs (But no more then that). The reason why we should not let anyone have more then one in Day 2 is because we've only hit one scum and we need two scums dead before we should even consider trusting a person with a Dragonball.

Process repeats until we are left with one non-townie (At least out of five). Once we get to there, the person with the least vote/have the strongest townie read should get all seven Dragonballs. We need to be absolutely certain that the person is townie. If the person is scum, we're screwed and they are almost guaranteen to win.

If we hit two scums, two people can have two Dragonballs. If we hit four non-townies, the max that a person can have is three. The amount of Dragonballs a person can have increase as how many people die and how many scums are killed. Then when one scum is remaining, then it'll be okay to start trading it all to an very trustworthy person who you believe is townie. Everyone (Yes, EVERYONE) must agree on this or it's not going. If everyone agrees, within forty-eight hours of the deadline, all people with Dragonballs should give the Dragonball away to the most trustworthy person. If the person lynched is townie, then we'll have to hope that the person holding the Dragonball is townie as well.

It's not going to be as simple as this and I know it. It's going to be a lot more complicating to do. It's not as easy as "Kill scum, collect Dragonballs, kill more scum, trade with townies, give all Dragonballs to the most trustworthy person", even thought my plan looks like it. However, there are ways to help keep this organized:

1. We should keep note of people who trade more then one dragonballs to one person. That means if you trade so much as more the one Dragonball to one person, you will be commiting an scummy act. Anyone who refuses to trade will be lynched the next day unless they have an overall town image from us. Yes, we have to be harsh on trading.

2. Trade within forty-eight hours of the deadline and be certain of your trade. We have to be very certain with our choices. We can't just shove one Dragonball to a person, we need to make sure that player has at least a null read from you. If the person appear scummy, don't trade with them. Starve the scums/independents of Dragbonalls and people with more then one Dragonballs must be forced to trade all there Dragonballs to other people within the time or they will be an lynch candidate.
Now this will be an common complaint here. "Well, we may not be able to wish!". Wishing is great and all, but it should be an lower priority for the majority of the game. We need to avoid wishing as much as possible (AKA with one non-townie remaining). As a matter of fact, wishing should not be an major factor whenever a townie wins or not. If we kill all scums and don't get a wish, townie still wins.

The top two things we should be concern about are scums and scums getting Dragonballs. Wishing can wait. Wishing will most likely come with risks for townies. If we do wish, the townie with all seven Dragonballs will be responsible for not making his own wish, but making the most pro-town wish possible with the least risks.

Will this be an big gamble? Yes it is. But so is Mafia in general. When we lynch people, we're gambling on seeing if they're townie or scum. Will the risks be worth it?
Possibly. The question is, will we attempt this and will it work?

2. List of people of who people suspect. This is similar to my question on who do you think is the most suspicious in your eyes, but you can list up to five. However, I will be keeping track of this by listing people's name and there suspects. For example:

Super Smash Bros. Fan: Xonar, The Paprika Killer, Cello_Marl
Clownbot: Super Smash Bros. Fan
Meta_Kirby: Super Smash Bros. Fan, Cello_Marl, Overswarm, Xonar
Mentosman8: Xonar
Rockin: Nicholas1024
Nicholas1024: The Paprika Killer, Meta-Kirby, Xonar, Overswarm
Sold2: Xonar
SwordsRbroken: Hilt, Super Smash Bros. Fan, The Paprika Killer, Overswarm, Junglefever*
Cello_Marl: Overswarm
Overswarm: Cello_Marl
Junglefever:
Kataefi: Nicholas1024
The Paprika Killer: Nicholas1024, Xonar, Super Smash Bros. Fan
Xonar: Overswarm
Hilt: Xonar, The Paprika Killer, Cello_Marl
Now what's the purpose of this? Well, it can serve these as purpose.

Let's say that I was about to get lynched. I am suspecting Xonar, The Paprika Killer, and Cello_Marl. I get lynched and I flip town. Meta-Kirby gets killed the following night and fliped town.

Normally, we're used to re-reading based off scum flips. However, town flips are almost as important as scum flips. With me and Meta-Kirby dead, that would leave Overswarm, Cello_Marl, Xonar, and The Paprika Killer left. We can examine there actions toward the player who got lynched. Then if we find scummy traits off any of them against the dead person, we could start a decent case off them.

We need to gather maximum information in Mafia games, ESPECIALLY in large theme games like this. This list can help organize our thoughts on who we think is scum. Therefore, if the person flips town, we can investigate the person in his bandwagon during his lynch.

I want everyone to jump in this idea. Give me at least one person that you suspect. Confirm or deconfirm people you're suspecting. I'm planning on doing this list once per real life day. Therefore, we can gather the most accurate results possible.

As promised, I will give my opinion on Cello_Marl's assault against Overswarm.
Cello_Marl's post against Overswarm was decent sometimes and I do believe him. But there's three things I want to touch up on.
　

In the confirmation phase, OS begins by stating, "Self-hammering sounds like a good strategy to me if you're town and believe that mafia can hammer you. I just hope we don't have an executioner." Why would he suggest self-hammering as a viable strategy when he could suggest giving your Balls to other individuals? I will admit it is possible that "before the game began" refers to before Day 1 started, but that still doesn't explain why he let that statement remain unchanged once he learned this very important tidbit; in fact, he was still suggesting that we might use self-hammering even after his pennies analogy (which was also bad. After all, if someone refused to at least pass along the individual Ball we know that they'd have, that's one more lynched scum. I'll give a Ball away for lynching a scum any day).

Why should we even give a flip about the confirmation stage? What makes the confirmation stage so special? Why should we even care about it? That makes about as much sense as me voting a person based off random questions I asked during the confirmation stage.

For all of OS's bluster over "Ball-cop Bulma", he doesn't mention a single time the fact that SSBF said, "I'm thinking that we're using the characters as of the Majin Buu Saga." How could SSBF know such a thing? The obvious answer is that his character hails from that era; he's probably Young Trunks or Goten, given that he actually names them as masons. I believe that OS realized the same thing (it was pretty obvious), as you'll also note that he questions me about whether or not Lovers are essentially Masons. Why else would this question seem important enough to bring up in thread, instead of checking mafiascum, and worded the way it was? Answer: To fish for whether or not I was SSBF's partner. Why else would he not have berated SSBF for his first lengthy post? Answer: He already had the information that he needed, and didn't want to attract undue attention to what he was truly seeking; that SSBF is a mason.

We're beating an dead horse that died very early in the game. What's the purpose of bringing this up? I haven't heard other people pointing this out until you did, but now it's invalid and we need to move on from this. Also, please don't try to guess what character I am, it was just a theory, nothing else.

I can't even begin to cite every fear-mongering statement he's made about wishes, especially when it comes to his "worry" that some disastrous wish could single-handedly destroy town. He seems to think that making a wish is the victory condition, for all sides.

Now I do agree that making a wish shouldn't be known as the victory condition we have to fill, but Overswarm could be right about one terrible wish potentially destroying town's hope for winning. This is why I made the suggestion above on how to prevent scum from getting all seven Dragonballs.

 

[mentosman8]

Sorry that I made jokes, mommy2. I won't ever do it again, please kiss me on my wounds so it will stop hurting.
I'm also sorry that I dropped my opinion in a discussion so that people know part of what I think, really, I shouldn't have done this. In fact, I'll just stop saying anything... ever. OH WAIT THIS IS MAFIA AND WE HAVE TO SCUMHUNT I TOTALLY FORGOT BUT YOU PROBABLY DIDN'T CUZ UR SCUM.

Making jokes is reasonable when there's no real discussion going on. When we're actually in real discussion, why not try to focus on something relevant. And the opinion you dropped was pointless role-guessing, and, as I said, not at ALL related to the topic you presented at the start of the sentence. Thanks for flipping out though.

Everyone saying this is a moron. He simply said that he would PREVENT people from trading their dragonballs without having them, not MODKILL. Geez, he could've also just not respond to it or something. Anyone incriminating me for this is a first grade moron.
Oh and agreeing, yeah, under the circumstances that there are no modkills, I did agree.

Let's quote the rules, with a little emphasis of my own added.

9001. If you don't have any dragonballs, you may not post the action Give dragonballs to Playername or any variation therein.

What part of may not post the action seems like it allows for us to do so anyway without consequences? That's like saying "oh, we have to post every 72 hours, but let's just all not post, nothing will happen." Rules are there for a reason, not so that they can be broken without consequences. The fact that you say you didn't get this fact makes me more confident that you are covering your tracks, because really, it's quite blatant.

Hey guys, I'm mentos. I think that answering questions is fluff.

Answering questions directed at you? No. In fact I blatantly say that a 3 line post later isn't fluff because it was answering Cello's question to you. However, jumping in to answer a question directed at someone else with a one liner most definitely is just trying to up your post count, which can be very much construed as fluff.

I bet Bulma has a 100% chance, actually, I assume she has. That said, we can always check if there are any balls left.

Hm, I remember one of your posts that I quoted you said:

I think bulma having a 100% chance or summit is kinda farfetched

So, with no new information put out, what exactly changed your mind from it being farfetched to you assuming she does? Flip-flopping when it's more fitting to what's going on. Also, if there were no balls to be found and all in play, "checking if there are any left" would likely involve a mass search. If scum has a hidden ball at that point, they get to train while we waste time trying to find a dragonball that's already been found. Wonderful idea.

I'd gladly trade a clear for a gamebreaking wish. Scum still can't hide their balls effectily.
I also wonder why Mentos didn't object to the plan before this PbP, nice one, man!

Really, I didn't? Because I seem to notice me pointing out the whole "your plan is explicitly forbidden by the rules" thing in my 190. But, it wasn't directed at you so you probably didn't realize that I had said anything about it. Also, depends on the wish, and since we have no idea what wishes are available, and the best one we HAVE seen is bringing someone back, I wouldn't make the trade for that. I would rather wait for it if we're going to be looking for an instant clear.

1 error can be critical.

Well my plan would sorta make a lot of people... get modkilled.

Way to miss the point. You said before Ronike's update nevermind to your "plan." Then, when Ronike posted the rule update you said

Aka I don't want to mass search

Now, since you had given up on your plan before this point, why was this the part that made you not want to mass search? Your plan has no relevance because it was already given up when you made this comment. You gave up your plan before Ronike made it clear that breaking explicit rules would result in consequences, so why is it still relevant at the time of the second post, causing you to change stances on mass-search?

I'm sorry that there are people actually thinking and reevaluating themselves. I know that it's hard to think for people like you and MK, but please don't project your inner self on me. Thank you.

Thinking is fine. But, Making a post saying "hey, I don't know what to think about about this player, but don't feel like figuring it out" is a pointless post that, more importantly, rides the fence in a way that after the tide has gone one way or the other you can jump with it and never have to worry about contradicting yourself.

It's fluff because you don't see the point?
...
Justifies my comment on the average intelligence in this game.

There is NO point for you to post that comment. Nic can handle his own arguments, he doesn't need you stepping in to tell people to read posts and that telling his plan ruins it. Congratulations on not only saying the same thing Nic had said, but responding for someone else.

Stool bory co.

Way to respond to the fact that you called him out for something that he was not actually doing. You claim you just got it mixed up, but I really don't buy that.

Distancing.

Yes, what it could be construed as if both were to be scum(which, btw, you are fully opposed to the idea of a mere 6 of your posts later Cello is towniest of town.) Why would scum be distancing themselves from a townie? I'm glad your response was so whiny that I noticed this this time.

Sorry mayne I'll stop having fun in this GAMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

Yep, because the fun in the game is posting a random comment that in no way actually relates to the game being played in any way.

Actually, they are very close, but having a brain smaller than a peanut helps not comprehending what I say, I know.

Yes, because buddying(the act of anti-town siding with townies to make themselves look better when that person eventually dies or is cleared) and distancing(scum/anti-town multi-person groups voting/disagreeing with each other to make disconnections when one of them dies, making the other look better.) are in fact not total opposites. Oh wait, they are total opposites. Thanks for calling me an idiot when you apparently don't know what you're talking about though.

I didn't base it on 1 action.

Oh right, because you said you couldn't make a hard stance so early based on one action. Right. So that post was actually worthless "NOWAI" material. Gotcha.

I'll stop having fun and laughing at people Oh wait, no.

You want to do it with some content? Fine. Doing it with that being the only thing in the post is just upping your post count so you can point at it later.

Text like this really urges me to just replace out. You sir, are an idiot.

Yes, I'm an idiot for stating the fact that you tried to take townie credit for suggesting people break rules made excessively clear. Way to respond to the argument and not just make an AtE... Oh wait.

I'm sorry for reevaluating and changing my opinion, I know you don't do that because you're an utter failure in mafia, but I do, thank you.

Way to entirely miss the point of that entire comment. You made it sound like you had a town read on Cello because you've played games with him and thought you knew where he was going. This is after Cello has explained exactly where he was going so that has no relevance to your read, and doesn't make sense to be there. The other key point of my comment was that it's the first time you express any sort of opinion on me and OS immediately after Cello said he suspected us, without providing any reason. Your first opinions on either of us coming up like that with no explanation but saying we're both scum, and need to die?

Yo guys I'm mentos and I think answering questions is fluff and breaking the game in favor of town is not in favor of town.

Seeing as I have never once called you answering a question directed at yourself fluff, and that has nothing to do with the comment you quoted anyway, not sure what that's about. And yeah, as I've said before there needs to be a far better wish than "revive X person" available for me to be willing to sacrifice a character/role big enough to be considered insta-clear. There are a couple I can think of, but risking outting a big role on D2 in the event that they may exist? No thank you.

Yo guys I'm mentos and I think answering questions is fluff, breaking the game in favor of town is not in favor of town and calling people out on fluff is fluff.

Oh look, you can copy and paste! But what's this? A new section! Yes, calling people out on fluff in a one line post with nothing else said is just upping post count. One way to define fluff does include insubstantial posts that up post count.

K man thanks

haha I gotta admit this is funny, I didn't really have a point made in that section, so pretty solid answerXD

Yo guys I'm mentos and I think answering questions is fluff, breaking the game in favor of town is not in favor of town, calling people out on fluff is fluff and answering with a few words is fluff.

More copy and paste with a couple new words. You weren't answering a question, so you weren't "answering with a few words," you were making a comment on a flavor example, calling it assumptions. The very fact that you quoted the flavor, not the content of that post to respond makes it fluff instantly. Even if you had quoted the content of the post when posting that, he was obviously speculating and it's a worthless post. Either way, it's fluff.

He did but it's obvious that your little brain didn't even see it in there, which only even further proves my statement regarding the average intelligence in this game.

Tell me, where in this post does he say that Cello could be claiming bulletproof in the situation you described in your post. If you can point out one single instance in this post, the one which your response was to, that he says "Cello may not actually be bulletproof and saying he is to avoid nightkill" I'll give this one back. He doesn't though, so have fun trying to manufacture it.

Cell already publicly posted "Hey, I'm bullet proof" and "I'm a lover and Hated", so the mafia now aren't going to waste a night kill attempt on him. They can kill whoever else they want, which if they want a double kill will be whoever they think is masoned with Cello.

You both seem to have this incredibly blind, raging approach towards the game, so I can only assume you both happen to have information I don't. If you're masoned and trying to hide it, you're doing a very poor job. You've decided to attach yourself to someone who has made multiple claims that can't be verified by town, which is odd.




What does me being town have to do with anything? Me being town or mafia has no direct relation to Cello being town or mafia. Someone is mafia, and it doesn't have to be anyone posting.

How about you get away from "anyone who disagrees must be scum" and not buddy up with the craziest guy in the game? You're creating parallels that will let scum (they're inactive atm, at least one or two of them guaranteed) survive for days without any pressure.




There are several people here that I'm not going to want in lylo. For now though, we need the inactives to step their game up.



...it's hyperbole, Xonar. And not really too far off the mark; the moderator has said deliberately that the dragonball wishes were ridiculously powerful and even devoted an entire section of the rules to them. It's not an assumption to say "if scum gets them, its bad"

If you find this all fluff I'm(snipped for oversized waste of space)

So, what was the point of that? You never implied that you thought his claim was fake, in fact everything you said was hypothetical, so yes, this post was pretty much worthless.

You're an idiot for being so close minded to only be like 'YO GUYS ONLY SCUM LIES AND TOWN CANT LIE NUH-UH.

Lynch all liars. Really, town shouldn't need to lie. Yeah, town can lie, but when they do it just comes back and bites town in the *** because they end up getting lynched when it's learned they lied. Not to mention some lies are reasonable(eg Cello lying who he investigated in Millers Hollow), whereas lying about one's role is assuredly not so.

Sup mentos you had a bad day?

Nope, just tired of everyone thinking 2 words is a reasonable argument around here. You want me lynched because you think I'm scummy, show why I'm scummy, don't just up your post count by saying Kill X.

Bulma having a 100% chance to refind them sits better with me than having any of you idiots chosing who the balls go to.

Seeing as I agree with your original stance that it's not likely Bulma has a 100% chance to find Dragonballs, and I would trust most people in this game to make an intelligent choice where to hand them, I would rather not give scum a chance to get them without working on it. Not to mention you're operating on the assumption a role exists that we have no evidence does exist.

The first one def has purpose, too bad someone like you couldn't figure it out if you had 10 human lifespawns to decipher it.
Besides, I bet I answered Cello's question perfectly as he never questioned me about my answer.

What purpose is that? Is there any benefit to you saying you asked Ronike about it? Were you being asked to say if you had? No. So the eagerness looks bad along with the fact that there was absolutely no reason for you to post that. Cello's question is irrelevant to the problem I pointed out with the posts, seeing as I straight up said there was nothing wrong with the second post because it was the answer to a question.

Hipocrisy is an argument? OH WOW WHAT WORLD IS THIS, MORON BALL Z WORLD?

Being a hypocrite is a much stronger scumtell than town-tell. If town is looking at something as a scumtell, they try to avoid it in their own posts. Scum are more likely to call someone out for scummy behavior while doing it to a noticeable extent themselves.

Nah I was fine with OS *nod*

Point still stands Cello told you to change and you instantly did. With nothing else said.

Hilt's post inbetween changed my mind on Hilt.

I can't prove that this isn't the case, so you can have this one.

Please next time try to refrain from the "can't really counter the argument logically so let me just fling out insults like I'm the combined brains of the greatest scientists of all time" approach. Doesn't bug me, but it's annoying to have to sift through insults to find what I actually need to respond to.

All you did to respond was attack me, and appeal to emotion. Very few of your counter arguments actually hold up when they're there. With that:

Unvote(since Ronike missed it ) Vote Xonar

 

[Deleted member]

@Mentosman8: I will admit, that was an fantastic response to Xonar there. However, I want to ask you a question. Who are your other suspects and why?

But another thing. I'd like to let you know that you put Xonar at L-1.

EVERYONE! Xonar is at L-1. If you're going to hammer this early, you better have an very good and original reason why.

 

[Ronike]

Vote Count (8/15 to Lynch)
(7) xonar: Jungle, SSBF, Sold, Mentos, Rockin, Hilt, OS
(4) overswarm: Cello, Xonar, Nick, Swords
(1) nicholas1024: TPK
(1) super smash bros. fan: Clown
(0) clownbot:
(0) rockin:
(0) cello_marl:
(0) hilt:
(0) Jungle:
(0) kataefi:
(0) the paprika killer:
(0) swordsrbroken:
(0) mentosman8:
(0) meta-kirby:
(0) sold2:

Not Voting: Meta, Kat

 

[mentosman8]

Good call pointing that out. I forgot that my vote would put him there after wading through the insults>_> Regardless, maybe this will convince him to actually respond logically instead of just saying everyone else is stupid. Anyway, I may get back with other suspects after I've made a trip to get my sis a birthday present, however when I have a read like I do on Xonar I tend to like to focus on my comments to that person and just keep an eye on alternates. But I do have other suspects, and I do know I'll at least make a post relating to one of them when I get home.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Ugh. I have a lot to catch up on. Post something tomorrow or Friday.

 

[M.K]

@Mentosman8: I will admit, that was an fantastic response to Xonar there. However, I want to ask you a question. Who are your other suspects and why?

But another thing. I'd like to let you know that you put Xonar at L-1.

EVERYONE! Xonar is at L-1. If you're going to hammer this early, you better have an very good and original reason why.

In my opinion, this is pretty dumb of you. There is nothing wrong with hammering someone when it's not 15 minutes before the deadline. I'm going to give him a chance to speak, but if he continues to not refute the points brought against him, then I'll have no problem dropping a hammer.

Plus your first statement is a blatant way of taking the heat off Xonar. "Great post, WHO ELSE?" is basically what you said. You're inviting mentos to take another route so that you can probably elaborate on it, find a mistake, get the heat off Xonar, and go from there. I'm not buying this at all. >_>
Ya it's great to know that he's at L-1, that's all you had to say. You didn't have to add the "good and original reason" crap.

 

[DtJ S2n]

SSBF was entirely right in emphasizing it's L-1. Too often do people hammer before someone can defend fully and it should be clear that you know you're hammering. We don't want anyone to hammer before a defense and then just brush off suspicion with "omg I didn't know he was at L-1."

Though I like your taking heat off Xonar observation.

 

[Deleted member]

In my opinion, this is pretty dumb of you. There is nothing wrong with hammering someone when it's not 15 minutes before the deadline. I'm going to give him a chance to speak, but if he continues to not refute the points brought against him, then I'll have no problem dropping a hammer.

Granted, I'm all for an Xonar lynch, but I wouldn't even care about him being at L-1 had we had at least 72 hours left to discuss. However, that's not the case here. If I remember correctly, we have until May 12, 2010 to lynch someone and we have plenty of time to gather more informations on potential scums. Doing an lynch this early would cut off having more information. We need to give every Day as much information as possible, the best thing next to scum lynches. Waiting until fifteen minutes before deadline to lynch is dangerous, but so is an early lynch, with the only possible majorly good consequence is a scum lynch (Even then, in some cases, we may not get much out of it. This will be one of our lucky exceptions).

Remember when I attempted an quick lynch on Fatchu in Smash Bros. Mafia? That was a seriously bad idea.

Plus your first statement is a blatant way of taking the heat off Xonar. "Great post, WHO ELSE?" is basically what you said. You're inviting mentos to take another route so that you can probably elaborate on it, find a mistake, get the heat off Xonar, and go from there. I'm not buying this at all. >_>

I'm not interested in trying to keep Xonar out of the spotlight. What I am saying is that we need to be careful with our votes now, especially regarding Xonar.

 

[M.K]

Quit being afraid to lynch before deadline. If you think someone is scum, don't be afraid to L-2/L-1/hammer them as long as you have good reasoning. Lynch before deadline, discussion is a distraction that allows scum to persuade/appeal to townies into the wrong direction. When you are comfortable with a lynch, get on it then.

More discussion until the very end of a deadline is not this awesome pro-town thing. Waiting until near-deadline to lynch gives scum the greatest influence as they are able to coordinate to swing the lynch into the direction they please due to time constraints on the town. I would consider waiting until deadline to make an informed discussion a scummy move. SWF has a problem with this mindset and should fix it because seeing deadline-no-lynches is really unacceptable. Pull your act together and realize the "it's you vs everyone" mindset is awful and that you have to figure out who your fellow townies are and must come to an agreement with them if you want to lynch correctly.

Ever since reading this, I've found it annoying when people suggest that we just "wait". There must be a reason behind this suggestion; mainly because I feel like you're suggesting enough time for you, Xonar, or any other potential lynch candidate to influence my thoughts enough for me to change my mind, scramble before deadline, and make a poor decision. Clearly, for me at least, Xonar is a good suspect. He's got a case against him, I agree with the case, his refutations are weaker than I had expected, and his poor refutations have even been countered with grace. I don't understand why anyone besides a mafia member would suggest waiting, because the mafia members just want to persuade you enough to drop a case. This was my fault in alot of other games, and frankly, I'm tired of falling victim to my own succumbing nature. It's the whole reason I didn't pursue ChibiCat in Smash Bros. Mafia, and Mayling in Werewolves of Miller's Hollow. Based on what others say, I convince myself of one scenario despite not being my own opinion. In psychology, it's cognitive dissonance; the phenomenon that, when presented with an idea that doesn't match your pre-set standards, you have a tendency to disregard them in favor of a group decision.
I don't want you to come away with the fact that I want to hammer Xonar in the next 15 seconds; in fact, I'm perfectly willing to hear him out if he decides to fight back, but don't tell me that I just have to wait until May 12th before deciding upon a final action.

 

[M.K]

By the way, that quote was in the DGames V/LA thread by Xiivi.

 

[mentosman8]

Ok, so, I was thinking about it, and I really want to hear what Xonar has to say, preferably in the form of an actual argument this time, and depending on that goes maybe his flip before I can tell where my suspicions land. He's thrown up so many red flags for me that I might get too tunneled on him to see other scum clearly. I do still have my suspicions, but when I have a read that I feel strongly about like this I tend to start to look at connections before actually knowing a flip, which oftentimes ends up muddying what I come up with. To at least give something to work with, my prior suspicion of OS still holds up as of now.

Also, OS, it is highly likely a vig would have to be out for your Cello clearing plan to work. I don't feel like spelling it out, but I doubt we would be able to clear Cello as such without outting the vig.

 

[Kataefi]

~dearest OS~

please die for posting that picture <3

btw that dad is the best dad EVAH! he will win worst father of the year since he left that lawnmower on and didn't tell his son how to turn it off! you/I could subjectively validate anything that's implied so your 101 could be seen as a straw man. I'm just keen to know why you felt the need to instruct a vig when you're pretty much advocating it's none of your responsibility what decisions they make in the first place. was #464 a joke?

@Kat: Why is an unknown vigilante more important than a confirmed BP?

confirmed BP tells us nothing about your alignment. a vigilante could expose/waste their shot if you turn out to be scum-aligned.

^PK does this also answer your question? also explain your vote on nich please
and hilt why did you answer a question directed at me?

 

[Rockin]

@Ronike: I never voted Rockin, my vote is currently on SSBF

@Rockin: If someone between Mentos and Xonar is scum I'd say it's Xonar but I don't really think either of them should be lynched toDay.

How so? Is it because there's better lynch canidates to choose toDay or do you not feel entirely certain Xonar is scum or not?

SSBF, I want to take a bit of a knock on your two ideas

Your first idea is...meh. It mainly consist of 'who to trust my Dragon Balls to.' Your plan also involves us hitting scum every Day, which isn't impossible...just highly unlikely >_>. There's also the aspect of trading the Dragon Balls around to people who you either trust, or to even out the numbers before getting hammered. Looking at that, you're talking about the same/similar game plan both Cello and Xonar have touched up, to which led to this arguement in the first place. Finally, in the end, you're giving up the Dragon Balls to someone trustworthy, not because they're confirmed town, to which could lead lead to other problems.

Note: I think we should avoid talking about Dragon Balls for now and how we should handle it (in terms of trusting another/getting scum) till AFTER we gotten the Dragon Balls. For now, all it's doing is fake contributing IMO. Game plan for either training or Dragon Ball search is nice and all, but this is D1, and I much rather mainly focus on the scum hunting part of the game. As said before, everyone should do their own thing on either finding Dragon Balls or training and we can coordinate better on D2.

Your second idea...basically talks about what other people is doing right now, I believe/have been doing LOL.

 

[mentosman8]

And I just remembered I forgot to include this in my response to Xonar, but I feel it is important to why my vote went on him this time and not the last.

In his response to me, he repeatedly turned to insults and negative phrases. In my experience, cornered town is likely to use logic and refute arguments, if not calmly, in a reasonable way, trying to convince town. Cornered scum is more likely to turn to insults and negativity against those who make a case on them, because it can invoke an emotional response that leads to town questioning the argument more. Emotional responses don't look the same as reasonable ones, and often look a lot weaker. Just felt that I should point out this piece because, as I said, it influenced my vote going on him instead of waiting for his re-rebuttal beforehand.

 

[Kataefi]

Mentos what explanations do you see as to why Xonar would quote Meta-Kirby and pass that off as you?

 

[Clownbot]

How so? Is it because there's better lynch canidates to choose toDay or do you not feel entirely certain Xonar is scum or not?

I think there's at least one better lynch candidate, but some of Mentos' latest call-outs on Xonar's scumminess are making me reconsider. I really wouldn't mind Xonar's lynch but for now I'm sticking with my current vote.

 

[mentosman8]

Well, as much as I would like to say that it's him trying to twist things, I think it could very well be a legitimate mistake. He had been mostly back-and-forth with me, so it could easily be an accident. Not to mention, it's a kind of play that has almost no reward. If the player is still alive, they'll know they didn't say it, if they aren't it gains you nothing. If anything it only stands as a detriment to do something like that on purpose, and since he was able to correct it and it fit so well with the rest of the post, I'd say honest mistake.

 

[Deleted member]

@Xonar: I'd like for you to respond to Post #409 where I address your response to me.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Skimmed through things, going back to constructing closets and desks.

 

[Deleted member]

Skimmed through things, going back to constructing closets and desks.

I had no idea you had a job!

However, I suggest doing an full re-read from #108.

With that said, see you and everyone else after school.