Next Tier List on 5th June - What do you think we have to expect?

[M.K]

G&W low tier? That's a joke, he ***** a lot of lightweight characters. Low learning curve and so huge advantages makes him so he should be in top 10 at least.

Yeah, we established that it was a joke. Everyone knows that GnW is an amazing character.

Jigglypuff is NOT a good character in Brawl. It was decent in 64 and great in Melee but it is bad in Brawl. It should NEVER be in high tier in Brawl when considering matchups like Olimar, Wolf and the terrible G&W. Jiggly has some good matchups I don't think it will remove it from low tier.

They all sit at the bottom.....does it matter what order they sit in?
It's like a big dumpster.

 

[Top-Spin]

Nice try, but I'm still not going to feed you.

I already ate, so it's all good.

 

[Melomaniacal]

I already ate, so it's all good.

Weird, I didn't see anyone feeding you.

 

[Top-Spin]

Weird, I didn't see anyone feeding you.

Neither did I. Might have to do with the bowl of cereal I had earlier.

Or the fact I'm not a troll, just stating an opinion. So again, if that's bad, then I'll just leave you all alone. :3

-waddles away-

 

[Melomaniacal]

Neither did I. Might have to do with the bowl of cereal I had earlier.

Or the fact I'm not a troll, just stating an opinion. So again, if that's bad, then I'll just leave you all alone. :3

-waddles away-

Well, most people tend to be annoyed by outspoken, rude, ignorant people shouting out their ignorant, misguided opinions.

Crap, did I just feed you?

 

[Top-Spin]

Don't see how it's ignorant, rather, the complete disregard of a different way of thinking seems ignorant. Bordering on Facist, seeing how it excludes any and all other opinions on the matter.

Oh whoops, I seem to have gotten lost on the way out. It's alright, though, found the door now. Outta here.

 

[Melomaniacal]

Don't see how it's ignorant, rather, the complete disregard of a different way of thinking seems ignorant. Bordering on Facist, seeing how it excludes any and all other opinions on the matter.

Oh whoops, I seem to have gotten lost on the way out. It's alright, though, found the door now. Outta here.

Believe it or not, it's not a matter of opinion. Tiers will always exist in every fighting game, unless the game consists literally of one character. No fighting game is perfectly balanced. No fighting game will ever be perfectly balanced. And since you seem to be unaware of this (or a troll), you are, therefore, ignorant.

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

off the bottom with falcon! falcon is the greatest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Lovely]

Not like it matters but here's my thoughts:

SS Tier
Meta Knight

S Tier
Snake

A Tier
Falco
King Dedede
Mr. Game & Watch
Marth
Diddy Kong

B Tier
Wario
R.O.B.
Lucario
Olimar

C Tier
Pikachu
Kirby (Not being biased because I main him)
Donkey Kong
Ice Climbers

D Tier
Zero Suit Samus
Toon Link
Pit
Peach
Wolf

E Tier
Luigi
Zelda
Bowser
Fox
Sheik
Ike

F Tier
Mario
Lucas
Ness
Samus
Sonic
Pokémon Trainer
Yoshi

G Tier
Link
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon

Lime means the character I think might go up, and red means a character I think might go down.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Meh... I definitely think CF above Ganon

I also think Jiggz should be above Samus, but that might be me...

She has a sub-par matchup against Meta...That must mean something

 

[B!squick]

@Lovely: And why do you think Bowser will go down?

 

[Top-Spin]

This is why I disagree with Tiers, mostly. My two best are relatively far down, but I kick some *** with 'em.

Though, Olimar's not doing so badly, so that's okay :3

And for the record, i understand that fighting games will never be perfectly balanced. That'd be kind of boring an eliminate any challenge, but I don't see the need to wroship them.
Worship might be a bit strong of a word, but I just mean that they shouldn't have to be followed so closely.

I could say more, but I can't be ****ed to.

But, to loop back to earlier in my post; I should definately play Olimar more. He's fun. :3

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

This is why I disagree with Tiers, mostly. My two best are relatively far down, but I kick some *** with 'em.

Though, Olimar's not doing so badly, so that's okay :3

And for the record, i understand that fighting games will never be perfectly balanced. That'd be kind of boring an eliminate any challenge, but I don't see the need to wroship them.
Worship might be a bit strong of a word, but I just mean that they shouldn't have to be followed so closely.

I could say more, but I can't be ****ed to.

But, to loop back to earlier in my post; I should definately play Olimar more. He's fun. :3

Just because you do good with a character doesn't make their placement on a list null. They still have the same strengths and weaknesses as before.

 

[kigbariom]

I don't think Lucas and Ness will be tied any more, their respective meta games must have advanced. I also hope that Luigi's game has brought him up a place or two.

 

[Lovely]

@Lovely: And why do you think Bowser will go down?

I haven't seen Bowser place high in most of the current tourney's so far, also I don't think I've seen his meta game evolve much either. I could be wrong because I don't have the facts of all the tourney's in my mind or Bowser's AT's, just those I currently researched and experienced.

 

[Sosuke]

TL for high tier yeahyuzz

 

[B!squick]

And for the record, i understand that fighting games will never be perfectly balanced. That'd be kind of boring an eliminate any challenge

You think a fighting game where no one character has an advantage would be boring and devoid of challenge?

O.o

Ellaborate pl0x, because that makes no sense.

I haven't seen Bowser place high in most of the current tourney's so far, also I don't think I've seen his meta game evolve much either. I could be wrong because I don't have the facts of all the tourney's in my mind or Bowser's AT's, just those I currently researched and experienced.

May I suggest visiting the Bowser Boards sometime? Granted, his tourny results aren't amazing, but that's just because people don't play him. And tourny results do not equal tier lists anyway. At all.

 

[ADHD]

I think diddy will stay where he is or rise up a spot. He's getting top 10 consistently in large tourneys and in 40+ local ones he's always getting top 4.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

This is why I disagree with Tiers, mostly. My two best are relatively far down, but I kick some *** with 'em.

Though, Olimar's not doing so badly, so that's okay :3

And for the record, i understand that fighting games will never be perfectly balanced. That'd be kind of boring an eliminate any challenge, but I don't see the need to wroship them.
Worship might be a bit strong of a word, but I just mean that they shouldn't have to be followed so closely.

I could say more, but I can't be ****ed to.

But, to loop back to earlier in my post; I should definately play Olimar more. He's fun. :3

Tiers show the rankings of all the Brawl characters at the top level of play.

This doesn't mean someone can't use a bad character and win, this just means that you'll have a harder time.

If games were balanced it would make more of a challenge, since then any character could have a fair shot at winning, and everything would be based on skill.

:sniper:

 

[AvaricePanda]

What ADHD said.

Diddy Kong and Wario have both been showing consistently good results, and both have good matchups. Neither character really has characters they **** or get ***** by, and their matchups against the other top tiers are pretty much even. They both are either going to stay where they are or move up a spot.

Falco is going to drop. Hard. At least he should.

 

[smashkng]

What ADHD said.

Diddy Kong and Wario have both been showing consistently good results, and both have good matchups. Neither character really has characters they **** or get ***** by, and their matchups against the other top tiers are pretty much even. They both are either going to stay where they are or move up a spot.

Falco is going to drop. Hard. At least he should.

Wario is a lot better than Diddy, his worst matchups are better than Diddy and Wario only has 3 disadvantage matchups, one of them Meta Knight which is almost 50/50 but slight on MK's favour. Non of them are because of the grab release stuff.

Diddy of course has very bad matchups: Luigi and Olimar and maybe Jiggly also, though Jiggly in a terrible tier position. Diddy has also more disadvantage matchups. It wouldn't be wrong to say middle tier for Diddy is unfair, but by now many great people use Diddy and that's why he is so high now similarly to D3.

 

[Knossos]

Wario up.
Mario down.
Thats all.

 

[Frown]

Wario up.
Mario down.
Thats all.

Wow, that would be pretty boring.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Fox has, IIRC, 7 65:35 or worse disadvantaged matchups in the top/high tiers, the same number as Ike the last time I checked. But Fox is an overall better character than Ike so Ike won't be moving above him.

Ike's are: MK, Falco, D3, Olimar, Lucario that are 35:65 or worse from what I remember. But he only had one advantage in the higher tiers (ICs), and only a few that are in the neutral range (counting 45-55 neutral, in which case Diddy, Wario, and G&W are neutral according to the Ike boards), the rest are 4-6.

How many advantages does Fox have in the higher tiers? Not that I feel Ike > Fox, I'm just curious since you brought it up.

 

[A~Kid/ToonethLinkage]

Wario up.
Mario down.
Thats all.

If that's all they did I would NEVER look at the tier list again.

 

[Conti]

ehhh my tier list is like ********, but W.E... i'll edit it later


SS Tier
Captain Falcon's Manliness

S Tier
Meta Knight
Snake

A Tier [this stilll looks weird to me, i have no idea what to do for A tier]

Diddy Kong [idk if he deserves 3 but i cant think of who to put here]
King Dedede
Wario
Falco
Marth
Mr. Game & Watch


B Tier
Ice Climbers [*cough* Lain... Cough]
R.O.B.
Pikachu [Anther Ftw]
Lucario
Zero Suit Samus

C Tier
Olimar
Kirby
Peach
Donkey Kong


D Tier
Luigi
Toon Link
Pit
Wolf


E Tier [from here down i dont care]
Zelda
Bowser
Fox
Sheik
Ike


F Tier
Mario 4.56
Lucas 4.50
Ness 4.50
Samus 4.41
Sonic 4.16
Pokémon Trainer 3.94
Yoshi

G Tier
Link
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon

 

[Nidtendofreak]

D Tier
Toon Link
Pit
Wolf
Lucas

...........LOL no. He needs to drop. Somewhere under around Yoshi's current spot is about right.

Luigi's placing is off as well.

 

[Isaac Brawler]

Pika goes up thanks to the buffered CGs. BTW Anther rulz.

 

[sasook]

You might want to back up your statements before someone accuses you of being inexperienced or unintelligent for posting one liners that don't exactly have merit in the way you said it.

That being said, I'll counter your argument. Why exactly should they be grouped together? They are two distinct characters that each own different techniques, playstyles, match-ups, advantages, and disadvantages. If you like to switch between the two characters, that's fine, all you have to realize is that you are in "THIS" position on the tier list when playing with Zelda and "THIS" position on the tier list when playing as Sheik. However, tier lists shouldn't matter. If you feel that Sheik is better at a certain match-up, than you change to her, and vice versa.

Just because you can counterpick mid-match doesn't mean that the characters should be grouped as one single entity in competitive Brawl.

So by your logic Squirtle, Ivy & Charizard should be separate on the list, Mr. PT main?

 

[Top-Spin]

My opinion still stands, tiers are for queers.

 

[Alphicans]

No because you are forced to switch as PT, and due to fatigue it's in your best interest to do so.

 

[xDD-Master]

Yeah Zelda/Shiek isnt exactly: "When you play Zelda you are on Place X when you play Shiek on Place Y"... Zelda+Shiek would be on place Z.

I think every 3 should be rated, only Zelda, only Shiek and Zelda+Shiek. It's sure that Z+S will everytime be above both. You simple have less bad MUs, if you are a Z+S Player. You can decide which of them you take to make a match-up better. You can refresh your Moveset by switching two times. Or you can reck up damage with Shiek and simple Kill with Zelda and then switching back. All in all we can say that Z+S gives a player much more options to play.

It's not the same like the PT, because you have to play with all Pokemon, you can't play the best with only one (Without hacking...) because your are forced to change it after death and your Pokemon has no stamina after 2 minutes and needs 2 minutes in the pokeball to refresh it (as far as i know). So if you just switch two times everytime you die, your pokemon will lose his stamina and then your pokemon is weakend.

 

[OmegaXF]

Melee Fox will move up on the tier list.

 

[Lovely]

Melee Fox will move up on the tier list.

Melee Fox will be G tier because he's easy to combo when he get's hit, and he won't move until you get him at 120% but then he will be dead. >.>

 

[gm jack]

Yeah Zelda/Shiek isnt exactly: "When you play Zelda you are on Place X when you play Shiek on Place Y"... Zelda+Shiek would be on place Z.

I think every 3 should be rated, only Zelda, only Shiek and Zelda+Shiek. It's sure that Z+S will everytime be above both. You simple have less bad MUs, if you are a Z+S Player. You can decide which of them you take to make a match-up better. You can refresh your Moveset by switching two times. Or you can reck up damage with Shiek and simple Kill with Zelda and then switching back. All in all we can say that Z+S gives a player much more options to play.

It's not the same like the PT, because you have to play with all Pokemon, you can't play the best with only one (Without hacking...) because your are forced to change it after death and your Pokemon has no stamina after 2 minutes and needs 2 minutes in the pokeball to refresh it (as far as i know). So if you just switch two times everytime you die, your pokemon will lose his stamina and then your pokemon is weakend.

Well said. Just because you aren't forced to switch midmatch does not mean that it is a bad idea to do so. This is not melee, where changing to Zelda was pretty much the worst thing you could do with Sheik.

They compliment each other very well, with Sheik's damage racking and Zelda being a powerhouse. If you are at killing percentages, a single mistake against a half decent Zelda will cost you the stock.

Of course, for some matchups, you will want to stay as one of the pair. For example, Sheik is ***** by Ice Climbers while Zelda has a solid advantage. However, for some characters, where they previously both have disadvantages, they cover each others weaknesses to be greater than the sum of the parts. Most notable, in matches where Sheik has trouble scoring a kill, Zelda makes that far easier. In fights where Zelda's safest moves are her most powerful, she suffers a lot of decay and loses her killing power. With the transformation to refresh her moves, or again using to Sheik to damage rack for half a stock makes her life far easier.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Pica and diddy definitely up

 

[Snowstalker]

If Yoshi doesn't move up (decent matchups, D rank in tourneys), I will lose any respect I still had for the SBR.

 

[sasook]

Hmm, I see. The Zelda/Sheik thing being different from PT makes sense now. Thanks for clearing it up.

 

[Deathcarter]

If Yoshi doesn't move up (decent matchups, D rank in tourneys), I will lose any respect I still had for the SBR.

He will move up by virtue of Samus and Lucas moving down.

Ike's are: MK, Falco, D3, Olimar, Lucario that are 35:65 or worse from what I remember. But he only had one advantage in the higher tiers (ICs), and only a few that are in the neutral range (counting 45-55 neutral, in which case Diddy, Wario, and G&W are neutral according to the Ike boards), the rest are 4-6.

How many advantages does Fox have in the higher tiers? Not that I feel Ike > Fox, I'm just curious since you brought it up.

I knew about those 5, but I figured Kirby and Pikachu were bad for Ike as well since Kirby still has good damage building on Ike and Pikachu had recently discovered those buffered chain Grabs on a few characters, including Ike.

To answer your question, at the very best, the only advantages I can recall Fox having in the high tiers are Donkey Kong and R.O.B., but I will note that those two are debatable.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I knew about those 5, but I figured Kirby and Pikachu were bad for Ike as well since Kirby still has good damage building on Ike and Pikachu had recently discovered those buffered chain Grabs on a few characters, including Ike.

To answer your question, at the very best, the only advantages I can recall Fox having in the high tiers are Donkey Kong and R.O.B., but I will note that those two are debatable.

No, kirby is 4-6/45-55 range, Pikachu we need to redo. It was 44-55/4-6 range IIRC before the CG. He's probably one of the first ones we're going to redo once we finish the last few characters. Characters like Peach and Snake will need redoing as well, as we discovered the DACIT after those match-ups.