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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Louie G.

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Rhythm Heaven
The moment Lucas is cut everyone will be like man Earthbound rep is LACKING.
If they snub out Mother 3 content entirely, yeah.

If they bring back New Pork City, and if bed mech Porky were to return as a boss or something, then it would sting a bit less. I'm sure at least most of the music will return, lol. Both Assist Trophies are from EB already, and the items. So Earthbound in particular is likely to stay well represented, but if we see a more major content shift where most stages and an amount music are phased out then I can see myself being disappointed with the scope of the full series content.

Not factoring in a brand new stage, I'd probably bring back Magicant and New Pork City and cover most of our bases that way. If they brought in someone like Kumatora or Duster as an Assist Trophy in Lucas' wake then I'd be more than satisfied.
 
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GoldenYuiitusin

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Questioning my existence while asleep
I had a dream last night that Zael from The Last Story and Elena from Pandora’s Tower were DLC fighters in Smash 4.
Funny. I had an odd dream last night involving an old Smash too.

Dreamt that Brawl somehow had Growlmon, BlackGrowlmon, and Coredramon as fighters and Nintendo gaslit everyone to believe they didn't exist or something since they weren't in Ultimate and no one would say anything.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Snake Man's stage from Metal Blade Solid
Ya know, we all have a perception of what characters a Smash game can't really go without (original 12 + Marth and such), but when talking about rebooting the stage list, I don't think we've ever discussed what that looks like for stages.

So what do you guys think are Super Smash Bros.'s stages classics? I'll start with:
  • Battlefield
  • Final Destination
  • Temple
  • Brinstar
  • Sector Z/Corneria
  • Jungle Japes
  • Onett
  • Pokémon Stadium/Pokémon Stadium 2
  • Yoshi's Island (Melee)
These are all stages that have had nearly perfect attendance (SSB3DS drops most of them because they wanted to diversify the two stage lists in SSB4) throughout the series since SSBM. Not the best metric since most people aren't exactly rooting for the return of stages like Jungle Japes, and it's definitely SSBB erasure, but it's a good starting point I think.
 
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Gorgonzales

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Forgotten Isle
Ya know, we all have a perception of what characters a Smash game can't really go without (original 12 + Marth and such), but when talking about rebooting the stage list, I don't think we've ever discussed what that looks like for stages.

So what do you guys think are Super Smash Bros.'s stages classics? I'll start with:
  • Battlefield
  • Final Destination
  • Temple
  • Brinstar
  • Sector Z/Corneria
  • Jungle Japes
  • Onett
  • Pokémon Stadium/Pokémon Stadium 2
  • Yoshi's Island (Melee)
These are all stages that have had nearly perfect attendance (SSB3DS drops most of them because they wanted to diversify the two stage lists in SSB4) throughout the series since SSBM. Not the best metric since most people aren't exactly rooting for the return of stages like Jungle Japes, and it's definitely SSBB erasure, but it's a good starting point I think.
Battlefield, Final Destination, and Temple.
 

Wonder Smash

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If they snub out Mother 3 content entirely, yeah.

If they bring back New Pork City, and if bed mech Porky were to return as a boss or something, then it would sting a bit less. I'm sure at least most of the music will return, lol. Both Assist Trophies are from EB already, and the items. So Earthbound in particular is likely to stay well represented, but if we see a more major content shift where most stages and an amount music are phased out then I can see myself being disappointed with the scope of the full series content.

Not factoring in a brand new stage, I'd probably bring back Magicant and New Pork City and cover most of our bases that way. If they brought in someone like Kumatora or Duster as an Assist Trophy in Lucas' wake then I'd be more than satisfied.
That wouldn't make any sense, though. Bringing all that content that comes from Mother 3 but cut a playable character that also came from it? I think that would sting more than you think. Nothing can make up for a playable appearance.
 
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Among Waddle Dees

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Mar 23, 2017
Messages
408
I almost want to see Temple reworked. Not completely, as it's far from a bad stage layout, but as the one stage they often bring back, its art direction is really starting to show its age. Maybe something as minor as a slight aesthetic tweak, or maybe even enemies and NPCs in the background, could be enough to fix the repetition, but as is, I feel less compelled to play it every time they bring it back point for point.
 

Oracle Link

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I almost want to see Temple reworked. Not completely, as it's far from a bad stage layout, but as the one stage they often bring back, its art direction is really starting to show its age. Maybe something as minor as a slight aesthetic tweak, or maybe even enemies and NPCs in the background, could be enough to fix the repetition, but as is, I feel less compelled to play it every time they bring it back point for point.
Basically what i wanna see is this:
A. Npcs for the background some good examples are:
Octoroks (The 2d designs)
2 Moblins
Old Impa
And Shadow Link (from adventure of link)

And than theres a stage Variant called dark temple were the background is more destoryed and a gaint pig ganon looms in the background!
 

Louie G.

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That wouldn't make any sense, though. Bringing all that content that comes from Mother 3 but cut a playable character that also came from it? I think that would sting more than you think. Nothing can make up for a playable appearance.
I mean, I can speak on my own personal behalf about how much it would sting for me. Mother 3 is literally my favorite game of all time, so I'm not ignorant to how special it is. If you would be more upset by it, I understand and that's your prerogative. I'm just expressing how I understand cuts need to be made, I realize Lucas is expendable - he's been cut before, I'm prepared for it - and I hope at the very least Mother 3 will continue to be acknowledged in some way or another.

A playable character is the fullest extent a game can be represented but I can live with one Mother character - I just want them to keep the content diverse, and not just go all in on Earthbound / Mother 2. Under those conditions that seems like a pretty reasonable wish. Obviously I'd rather keep Lucas.
 
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Wonder Smash

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I mean, I can speak on my own personal behalf about how much it would sting for me. Mother 3 is literally my favorite game of all time, so I'm not ignorant to how special it is. If you would be more upset by it, I understand and that's your prerogative. I'm just expressing how I understand cuts need to be made, I realize Lucas is expendable - he's been cut before, I'm prepared for it - and I hope at the very least Mother 3 will continue to be acknowledged in some way or another.

A playable character is the fullest extent a game can be represented but I can live with one Mother character - I just want them to keep the content diverse, and not just go all in on Earthbound / Mother 2. Under those conditions that seems like a pretty reasonable wish. Obviously I'd rather keep Lucas.
Lucas has been in all games since his debut. He's never missed out, so this would be a first if that happened. And I know you're speaking on your own behalf but keep in mind that Earthbound is a small series and Nintendo still hasn't localized Mother 3, despite fans wanting it. Now if Smash goes from two reps to one, I wouldn't blame the fanbase if they feel that Nintendo disrespected them and the series. That's why I said I think it would sting more than you think.
 

Louie G.

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Now if Smash goes from two reps to one, I wouldn't blame the fanbase if they feel that Nintendo disrespected them and the series. That's why I said I think it would sting more than you think.
I know cuts are a difficult subject, but speaking as a fan… I would blame people for taking this as some deep disrespect, yes. I think coming at a character like Lucas with this amount of entitlement, that him being absent is a straight up personal disrespect, is just not a good idea. Difficult cuts have to be made, it's not implausible for Lucas to be one of them. Hence why I said I hope Mother 3 at least would continue to have a fair bit of content outside of the roster, like a stage, boss and music, because it would acknowledge the game despite the potential sacrifice. If we maintained some of this content and Lucas did not come back, assuming we lost like 20 characters, I would be sad for a moment, understand why that happened and appreciate that Mother 3 still has a presence in the game.

I said it would “sting a bit less” than Mother 3 content being snubbed altogether. I don’t think that’s unreasonable to say. We need to be mature about the future of the series, and I don't think all or nothing is a very good mindset to have. Implying it's pointless to bring back a stage or boss if we don't have a playable character doesn't make a whole lot of sense, because at least we would still have something. This is not at all me advocating for Lucas to be cut, it's me trying to be practical about the hand we may be dealt and wish for some consolation under that circumstance.
 
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Garteam

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I'm surprised this hasn't been posted yet.

Capcom released the results of their Super Election Poll, including people's favourite Capcom games, franchises, and characters. They also break the results down by gender, age, and international location.

You can tell the results were weighed by online movements to signal boost certain games in the hopes that this is an elaborate Capcom **** Test, but they're pretty interesting nonetheless. X being the third most requested character overall was pretty cool.
 

Scrimblo Bimblo

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Joined
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Messages
447
I know cuts are a difficult subject, but speaking as a fan… I would blame people for taking this as some deep disrespect, yes. I think coming at a character like Lucas with this amount of entitlement, that him being absent is a straight up personal disrespect, is just not a good idea. Difficult cuts have to be made, it's not implausible for Lucas to be one of them. Hence why I said I hope Mother 3 at least would continue to have a fair bit of content outside of the roster, like a stage, boss and music, because it would acknowledge the game despite the potential sacrifice. If we maintained some of this content and Lucas did not come back, assuming we lost like 20 characters, I would be sad for a moment, understand why that happened and appreciate that Mother 3 still has a presence in the game.

I said it would “sting a bit less” than Mother 3 content being snubbed altogether. I don’t think that’s unreasonable to say. We need to be mature about the future of the series, and I don't think all or nothing is a very good mindset to have. Implying it's pointless to bring back a stage or boss if we don't have a playable character doesn't make a whole lot of sense, because at least we would still have something. This is not at all me advocating for Lucas to be cut, it's me trying to be practical about the hand we may be dealt and wish for some consolation under that circumstance.
I can appreciate this mindset, but imho it's way more likely that they just bring back Lucas as opposed to his stage, his music and even Porky's boss fight of all things, but not him.
 

Ivander

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Dec 1, 2014
Messages
10,502
I'm surprised this hasn't been posted yet.

Capcom released the results of their Super Election Poll, including people's favourite Capcom games, franchises, and characters. They also break the results down by gender, age, and international location.

You can tell the results were weighed by online movements to signal boost certain games in the hopes that this is an elaborate Capcom **** Test, but they're pretty interesting nonetheless. X being the third most requested character overall was pretty cool.
Seeing Breath of Fire in a lot of the lists brings a smile to my face, but this:
Top 3 BoF.png


Understandably, "Not in here" is Number 1 most likely because of Dino Crisis and Darkstalkers, but still, seeing Breath of Fire in the Top 3 fills my heart with joy.
 

PeridotGX

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If you knew a Fortnite character was getting in smash 6. Would you rather Jonesy or Peely?
If we were to get a Fortnite character, I have to imagine it would be a Bowser Jr or Hero situation. They would be called "The Looper" or something to that effect, Jonesy would be the lead slot, and every alternate costume would be a different skin. They could easily do the eight defaults, but I think a more intresting lineup would be something like

Skin 1: Jonesy (the main man, obvious)
Skin 2: Ramirez (the most iconic female default)
Skin 3: Fishstick (Other than Peely, the most iconic non-human skin. I'm slightly concerned Peely would have hitbox issues, hence his exclusion)
Skin 4: Cuddle Team Leader (Another iconic Fortnite skin that at first glance doesn't look human)
Skin 5: Midas (One of the most iconic Fortnite original skins, and would serve to represent early Chapter 2)
Skin 6: Agent Slone (Another fairly iconic and plot relevant Fortnite Skin. Represents late Chapter 2 through Chapter 4)
Skin 7: The Ageless/Geno (The overarching antagonist of Fortnite, and represents chapter 4. Also funny to have another :4feroy:/:4roy: situation :geno:)
Skin 8: Hope (The main protagonist of the story started in Chapter 5, which she would represent.)
 

Speed Weed

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I'm surprised this hasn't been posted yet.

Capcom released the results of their Super Election Poll, including people's favourite Capcom games, franchises, and characters. They also break the results down by gender, age, and international location.

You can tell the results were weighed by online movements to signal boost certain games in the hopes that this is an elaborate Capcom **** Test, but they're pretty interesting nonetheless. X being the third most requested character overall was pretty cool.
Yeah, this is very cool indeed - I got very excited when I first heard they were sharing the results. I also agree that it's frustrating when that sort of brigading takes place - it really annoys me seeing how people just voted for Dino Crisis in every category in hopes of sending a message to Capcom. It skews the results and is generally just an obnoxious attitude - like, we get it, dude. That's what the sequel question is for. If you're not even willing to engage with the rest of the poll in an honest manner and are just here to screech about your favorite series needing to come back, I think you're doing a disservice. IDK, this is probably only so bothersome to me, but as someone who really enjoys these kinds of poll results and having solid data on what's popular, stuff like this just makes my OCD-ass brain flare up. It's happened with some SEGA polls too in the past, and it just irks me everytime it happens.

I do think all the demographic divides they showed are really cool, and the fact that they let us download PDFs of the full results for the bigger questions is extremely cool. Especially as it reveals how comprehensive the game database they have is.....in contrast with the character database which has some holes in it. I do with they'd also allow us to get the full results for some of the specific demographics, like the worldwide and Japanese polls. It's really cool seeing companies be transparent like this
 

Wonder Smash

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Messages
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I know cuts are a difficult subject, but speaking as a fan… I would blame people for taking this as some deep disrespect, yes. I think coming at a character like Lucas with this amount of entitlement, that him being absent is a straight up personal disrespect, is just not a good idea. Difficult cuts have to be made, it's not implausible for Lucas to be one of them. Hence why I said I hope Mother 3 at least would continue to have a fair bit of content outside of the roster, like a stage, boss and music, because it would acknowledge the game despite the potential sacrifice. If we maintained some of this content and Lucas did not come back, assuming we lost like 20 characters, I would be sad for a moment, understand why that happened and appreciate that Mother 3 still has a presence in the game.
If you're a fan, then you really can't blame them for that. Mario, Pokemon, and Fire Emblem, much larger series, have several characters that wouldn't surprise anyone if they get cut but Earthbound, a much smaller series, only has just two and THAT gets cut? I mean, I'm not even a fan and even I would feel dissed. Adding other content from Mother 3 is not going to make up that the main character is no longer playable now. You said it yourself that it you would be sad for a moment and it would sting at little but that's the point; no fan wants to be stung at all. No fan wants to be sad at all. Losing a playable character is an experience nobody wants to go through and people would understandably be upset if they do.
 
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Speed Weed

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Okami was the most pleasant surprise for me. Don't think it means Amaterasu's necessarily popping up in Smash or anything, but a sequel with today's hardware could be amazing. A well promoted follow up on the Switch 2 could do very solid numbers in Japan alone.
Yeah, Okami being the top 1 favorite game for Japan in particular is very impressive - they friggin' love that game over there
 

ScrubReborn

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I can appreciate this mindset, but imho it's way more likely that they just bring back Lucas as opposed to his stage, his music and even Porky's boss fight of all things, but not him.
Yeah... come to think of it, usually when a fighter gets cut, most extra content tied specifically to them perishes as well. When Ice Climbers "went on vacation" in Smash 4, their home stage disappeared with them too. We also lost Great Bay when Young Link got x'd from Brawl and yeah, we already lost New Pork the first time Lucas got x'd.

Granted this isn't the hardest precedence, and there's some wrenches like Ice Climbers getting a Smash Run enemy in 4, but yeah, seems reasonable to assume content tied to cut fighters is likely to be lost with them.

I could still see Porky coming back if Lucas gets canned though, given he's just as relevant to Ness as he is to Lucas. EDIT: Oh yeah, you mentioned music too. Yeah music seems to be exempt, the Ice Climbers and Lucas both kept their respective tracks even after getting cut so Mother 3's ost can easily exist without Lucas too.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I would rather not have anyone be cut, but it happens from time to time. Unfortunately, the roster can't be kept big forever. Licensing fees, some works already being finished, etc.

That, and a character being removed isn't an insult. It's just a game. Pure fiction, etc. I know the feeling, too. Though in a different context. Regardless, life goes on.
 

Louie G.

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I mean, I'm not even a fan and even I would feel dissed.
Then I don't think you should speak for them. Sorry, but this kind of shot down your argument here. I am a fan, I've played the game, I've adored it for a decade. It doesn't feel right for someone who doesn't feel that way to lecture me on this.

In any case, it's healthier for me to get used to the idea that some of my favorite characters who I feel are on thinner ice may not come back next time. It's not good for me to get angry and spiteful about the possibility - being upset is one thing, saying I would feel betrayed and insulted is another. And it's not as if Lucas would be the one lone character cut from the roster, big series like Mario / Pokemon / Fire Emblem would probably lose them too. Once you prune some off of the big series, smaller dormant series come next. Lucas, Falco, Wolf, Palutena... I don't want any of these characters gone but I'd rather prepare myself for the risk of losing a couple instead of acting entitled for their return, and then angrily pointing fingers later.

I can appreciate this mindset, but imho it's way more likely that they just bring back Lucas as opposed to his stage, his music and even Porky's boss fight of all things, but not him.
Fair enough, although I personally don't think it's like that. Music is easy to bring back, and a stage can exist independent of a character. The Porky fight is based on Mother 3, but Porky is still a villain in Earthbound so I don't think it's something that would need to hinge on Lucas. But agree to disagree I suppose.
 
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Wonder Smash

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Then I don't think you should speak for them. Sorry, but this kind of shot down your argument here. I am a fan, I've played the game, I've adored it for a decade. It doesn't feel right for someone who doesn't feel that way to lecture me on this.
Look, neither Ness or Lucas have ever actually been cut, so it's not like you can speak from experience of how you would deal them missing out. Now you're saying fans just keep their mouths shut and just accept defeat if it happens? Heck no!

Meanwhile, I've had to deal with content in the game without playable characters more than once. It's never easy to accept.
 
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DKing

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I know it not popular in the west and have a small fanbase in the west. But when i looked out japanese people love to see him and the game is really popular in japan and influence dungeon games. Spike chunsoft the company behind shiren the wanderer help Nintendo and game freak to create pokemon mystery dungeon. I like the games for it difficulty and the charms of the music.
 

Louie G.

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Look, neither Ness or Lucas have ever actually been cut, so it's not like you can speak from experience of how you would deal them missing out.
You keep saying this like Lucas was available at launch. We didn’t know he would be playable until the following April. From October until then (and I had literally just played Mother 3 that summer, so I was especially passionate about it) he was as good as gone, as far as we were aware. So yeah, I was there for that and it was fine. They added other characters that I liked and I was content.

I’m not saying any other fans should do anything. I’m saying I personally don’t want to be the guy who kicks and screams over a character I like getting cut, when I know substantial cuts are likely. Maybe if it was a full series being outright removed I would be angry, but as long as Ness is still here I’ll live.

“Accept defeat” is a weird way to frame this too. How do you want me to react? If I’m disappointed about a cut, I’ll rally for them to be DLC or come back next game. Not a whole lot I can do about it otherwise, and no use hounding Nintendo about it especially if my character isn’t the only one we had to lose.
 
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Wonder Smash

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You keep saying this like Lucas was available at launch. We didn’t know he would be playable until the following April. From October until then (and I had literally just played Mother 3 that summer, so I was especially passionate about it) he was as good as gone, as far as we were aware. So yeah, I was there for that and it was fine. They added other characters that I liked and I was content.

I’m not saying any other fans should do anything. I’m saying I personally don’t want to be the guy who kicks and screams over a character I like getting cut, when I know substantial cuts are likely. Maybe if it was a full series being outright removed I would be angry, but as long as Ness is still here I’ll live.

“Accept defeat” is a weird way to frame this too. How do you want me to react? If I’m disappointed about a cut, I’ll rally for them to be DLC or come back next game. Not a whole lot I can do about it otherwise, and no use hounding Nintendo about it especially if my character isn’t the only one we had to lose.
It also wasn't long before Lucas was confirmed for DLC (which we did know was coming), so that still doesn't tell us anything. Simply not knowing he wasn't coming doesn't count. He's either in the game at some point, or he's not in the game at all.

Also, I didn't say YOU have to feel that way. Just that you can't blame OTHERS for feeling that way. With a small series that's got some recognition through Smash, and has a such cult following, it's very fortunate that it even has two reps.

In addition to that, you're talking about adding other Mother 3 content to the game without Lucas but what if that doesn't happen? What if all that gets cut with Lucas? And it really makes no sense to bring all that without Lucas. So...I can't picture the chances of that happening anyway.
 

Louie G.

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Simply not knowing he wasn't coming doesn't count. He's either in the game at some point, or he's not in the game at all.
We had all of October - March to be upset Lucas wasn’t in the game. We didn’t know how DLC was being handled past Mewtwo and we didn’t know Lucas would be a part of it. For that period of time Lucas fans knew how that felt, and learned to deal with it and find joy in other characters. This is a ridiculous argument so I’m going to cut it off here.

it's very fortunate that it even has two reps.
Hence why I’m prepared to lose one. And yes I can blame people if they choose to react in an immature, spiteful way. I’m an adult and I know these decisions are not personal. Sakurai has shown the game a tremendous amount of love up to this point, and I am grateful for that. It doesn’t retroactively mean he hates Mother 3 and its fans if it doesn’t last forever.

If venom is spat at Sakurai and other new additions simply because he couldn’t bring back one character I like, a semiclone from a series that hasn’t had a game in nearly two decades, I will be disappointed in the people who express and promote that hate. I won’t judge anyone for being upset. Just for making that everyone else’s problem.

In addition to that, you're talking about adding other Mother 3 content to the game without Lucas but what if that doesn't happen? What if all that gets cut with Lucas? And it really makes no sense to bring all that without Lucas. So...I can't picture the chances of that happening anyway.
I don’t know, I guess I would be frustrated if every single bit of content was removed. There’s no reason for them to go in and remove Mother 3 music, so if that happened that would feel insulting. But unless we’re getting a totally revised soundtrack this doesn’t typically happen.

New Pork City not returning would be okay. Kinda comes down to whichever Mother stages do make it in, if it came down to one returning stage I’d be content with it being Magicant. If we got a new Mother stage, I think I’d just be excited about whatever that is. Hopefully something like Saturn Valley that kinda serves to represent both EB and Mother 3.

By default, I don’t expect Porky back. We don’t know how they’re handling bosses. I was just suggesting it would be cool if he did come back, Lucas or otherwise, since Ness is his rival as well. I don’t expect Kumatora or Duster ATs either, although I would like it.

In a worst case scenario, I’m still playing a game with dozens of characters and series I love in it. And I have three other games I can revisit that do have content from my favorite game. I could harp on this absence and be upset for years until I’m satiated, but any fan of the series / character knows this is a plausible outcome and I’m choosing to get over that hurdle now. If I’m wrong, I’m happy to be wrong.
 
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superprincess

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Why do people act like a character being cut is some sort of insult or attack on fans? It's literally just the normal course of events. Budget and resources are finite. If it wasn't your character, it'd be someone else's.

Also, the whole "this character was cut so all the content from their game has to go too" fan rule is so arbitrary and just... a reach. We have stages and music that don't accompany fighters. It's not a big deal.
 
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