Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[ScrubReborn]

...Well dang.

I wonder if Officer Howard would have a similar issue.

I could be wrong so take the following with a grain of salt, but I remember hearing Pyra/Mythra's polygon count is because the DLC skeleton crew directly imported their XC2 model without much editing to save time. Assuming it's true and assuming Howard gets in the base game, they're probably going to make a new model like they do for most normal fighters. Again, if I'm not just saying BS.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

...Well dang.

I wonder if Officer Howard would have a similar issue.

I think it would be a pretty big issue, the Legions have very detailed and complex design, and the Officer themselves isn't exactly a simple design. You'd need to simplify and pair down both if you wanted to have them both on the field at once.

Of course, the difference is that the Legion presumably wouldn't always be loaded on to the stage, but those assets would still exist with the character and if the Legion is controlled then it would put a ton of strain on the CPU. If the Switch 2 has the specs it seems like it will have then it might be enough to have 8 players all using the Officer and a Legion while pushing the CPU to its limits, but I think for that reason it's probably likelier the Legions would only come out for certain attacks with a set animation to help keep it manageable and at a stable frame rate.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I tried Punch-Out with the motion controls and balance board once and determined none of that was for me.

I prefer precise controls, sitting down, and not waving my arms.

Meanwhile I was having so much fun playing Mario Kart Wii where the optimal strategy was to look like you're having a seizure. lol

I am glad motion controls didn't stick around though. They absolutely tank accessibility, and you don't even have to be old/frail for it to be a problem. I played Excite Bots about a year ago and my arms hurt from doing the circle motions as aggressively as the game encourages.

...

I just realized that I would probably injure myself if I picked up Mario Kart Wii again and now I'm sad.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I'll just simply say as far as series in Smash, I've experienced games in the Mario, Donkey Kong, Zelda, Metroid, Yoshi, Kirby, Star Fox, F-Zero, Pokemon (a little bit), Punch-Out!!, Kid Icarus, Animal Crossing, Metal Gear (through a demo), Sonic, Mega Man, Castlevania, Street Fighter, Final Fantasy, Fatal Fury, King of Fighters, Tekken, Kingdom Hearts, River City, No More Heroes, Ghosts n' Goblins, and Doom series. Plus, I've also played Duck Hunt and Ice Climber.

For those that are not in Smash, there's a lot but I'll just simply mention some that tend to come up in Smash discussions, such as Ninja Gaiden, Contra, Double Dragon, Battletoads, Killer Instinct, Mortal Kombat, Crash Bandicoot, Halo, and Streets of Rage.

 

[HyperSomari64]

If Minecraft doesn't return, I want to see a You, Me & the Cubes stage.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

I've seen people say that Diddy shouldn't be a mind-game focused character and should instead focus more on being a spontaneous, almost reckless kind of fighter. I agree with them, given that Diddy's whole thing is supposed to be him being inexperienced and cocky (which, funnily enough, is better expressed in Subspace cutscenes than in-game).

He's got glimpses of that, with Monkey Flip being a fantastic burst movement option and fitting of the character, but then you have Banana Peel which kinda goes against that by being this super-deep combo and mindgame enabling tool to the point where it feels like the whole character revolves around it.

I think they mostly nailed the recklessness with Diddy. Every single special move can backfire on him: Peanut Popgun explodes in his face if you charge it for too long, Rocketbarrels are flashy but hard to control and really frail (a tiny hit while you're flying and you're dead) plus they can damage Diddy if you hit the ground, Banana Peel of course can be picked up by your opponent and used against you - not to mention it locks you out of your A moves while you're holding it (making that Monkey Flip you're going to use really predictable...), and finally Monkey Flip is riskier than it looks AND it locks you out of your up B if you use the kick version.

Of course not much of that matters in competitive play where Diddy players have mastered his special moves and know how and when to use them with as little risk as possible, but what can you do about it? It's the nature of competitive play.
Banana Peel in particular, I think is a very fun move that adds a lot of depth to the character. It does become a little overcentralizing in competitive play, but again, that's just the way it is. Being able to generate an item is a huge advantage. Pac-man's hydrant, Peach's vegetables, ROB's gyro etc. are the same. I wouldn't hold this against Diddy. In fact the banana is not as intrusive as other item moves imo.
As for his normals, he has long combos that make him look a little like a tryhard, which fits him pretty well.

So yeah, I think that Diddy works well in terms of moveset design. His two main issues, imo, are:
-he's more Nintendo Diddy (monkey + DK's little buddy) than Rare Diddy (monkey + rock star) and his movements and expressions are not as exaggerated as those of the other Rare characters in Smash.
-he's kinda hard to play and he doesn't really have that couple of moves that are either easy to throw out or really really funny that make a character popular at lower skill levels and that make you feel like you're getting the hang of him even without having put a considerable amount of time into the character. Plus, let's say it, he's a silly cartoon monkey. Players who want to do long combos and feel like a badass would gravitate more towards Sheik or Joker or even Fox or Greninja. They just fit that type of player better.

Overall, I don't think that Diddy necessarily needs a rework? But admittedly he doesn't seems to get many players, he's often near the bottom of community polls sadly.
Maybe you could make Monkey Flip more of a finisher? Or give him the badass dual-weilding Peanut Popguns from DK64. I don't know.
I play as current Diddy a lot though, so I don't really mind him staying more or less the way he is.

I'd just put in Dixie as an original fighter. People will like her more.

 

[BritishGuy54]

Yeah, even if they could pull it off they probably won't go through all that extra work. Rex was made into a solo fighter in Future Redeemed, as mentioned before, but Noah and/or Mio would most certainly take priority as an XC3 rep. And if we get a third Xeno character after that, it would most likely be to push a hypothetical new XC4 (Or a Xenoblade successor, at least; I think they wrapped up the current story with 3 but it's become too big a series for Nintendo to just ditch and I think they discussed the possibility of a new game already).

But yeah, bottom line is they'll probably stick with Pyra and Mythra as they are now

I do think they’ll stick with Pyra and Mythra. I can see them becoming a recurring face for at least the next few Smash games.

What I do think is interesting is the possibility of new Xenoblade characters.

It’s clear the highest priority will go to Noah and/or Mio. However, I think it’s only one of them getting in. The other would likely get Chrom’d. And personally, I think Noah has a bit more going for him.

So if Noah’s in, and Mio’s out, they may want to add a second face anyway. But who?

If we look at past precedent in a game like Smash 4, a clone/echo fighter tends to be the way to go (like Dark Pit or Lucina). This means we could be looking at Alvis as a Shulk echo, or N as a Noah echo.

Or perhaps they lean more to fan demand. Rex was heavily requested, and with a new design to boot, is more than unique enough.

Or the loosening of spoilers and implementing Pneuma as a new stance of Pyra/Mythra, or even just an echo of Mythra.

 

[fogbadge]

Or maybe he just won’t include any more xenoblade characters

 

[DarthEnderX]

Or maybe he just won’t include any more xenoblade characters

One can only hope.

 

[ScrubReborn]

Banana Peel in particular, I think is a very fun move that adds a lot of depth to the character. It does become a little overcentralizing in competitive play, but again, that's just the way it is. Being able to generate an item is a huge advantage. Pac-man's hydrant, Peach's vegetables, ROB's gyro etc. are the same. I wouldn't hold this against Diddy. In fact the banana is not as intrusive as other item moves imo.

It helps he can't pull out two Bananas anymore. What in the world were they thinking then lol.

 

[JOJONumber691]

If we’re talking about more Xenoblade characters, given the precedent set with FE and Pokémon it’s going to happen, at least for Smash 7. Only thing that would logically get in the way of Xenoblade coming back is the fact that Xenoblade as a series might just be straight up over after Future Redeemed implied the story is done. And similar to Mother I am not sure if they’ll make any more beyond the XCX series since that’s a completely different continuity. We’ll see.

 

[Gengar84]

One can only hope.

I don’t absolutely need any more Xenoblade characters but there’s a ton to love about the series. The exploration of the huge environment, awesome music, and fun battle system really make the games a blast to play even if they’re not perfect. It’s probably among my favorite game series overall.

That said, while I like him as a character, I don’t think Noah alone would be a terribly exciting Smash fighter. There’s just not a ton about his playstyle that really makes him stand out compared to Shulk. Mio is just as good a character and has a more interesting moveset in my opinion. You could spice them up a bit and give them moves from other characters since everyone is able to class change in the game. The two as another transform tag duo could work well too but we just did that with Pyra and Mythra. If I could choose any version of Noah or Mio, it’s their combined Ouroboros fusion. It has a cool, unique design and represents both characters in one moveset. Make their stage intro the two separately and they fuse as the battle starts.

My overall top choice for another Xenoblade character is Nia. She’s just such a fun character and has several really unique options for a moveset. She can either pair with Dromarch as a rider type character or use her more recent appearance and moves. Each option offers a lot that would really make her stand out. A villain like Z or Mobius D&J would be a really cool choice too that would give the series some nice variety. The series doesn’t have a playable villain yet and these two have really cool designs and moveset potential.

 

[BritishGuy54]

If we’re talking about more Xenoblade characters, given the precedent set with FE and Pokémon it’s going to happen, at least for Smash 7. Only thing that would logically get in the way of Xenoblade coming back is the fact that Xenoblade as a series might just be straight up over after Future Redeemed implied the story is done. And similar to Mother I am not sure if they’ll make any more beyond the XCX series since that’s a completely different continuity. We’ll see.

We already kind of know XC4 is happening. It’s essentially just moving on towards a new saga. This doesn’t mean the series will no longer have any characters in Smash.

It’s like saying Lucas won’t get in Brawl because Mother is over. Even though Lucas did get in Brawl.

I just think an XC4 is still a few years away, and more so fits into the possible speculation of next game’s DLC.

My overall top choice for another Xenoblade character is Nia. She’s just such a fun character and has several really unique options for a moveset. She can either pair with Dromarch as a rider type character or use her more recent appearance and moves. Each option offers a lot that would really make her stand out

I think Nia is a possible choice for a Mio echo if they end up going with her over Noah.

And even if they don’t, I think Nia is prime AT material.

 

[Gengar84]

We already kind of know XC4 is happening. It’s essentially just moving on towards a new saga. This doesn’t mean the series will no longer have any characters in Smash.

It’s like saying Lucas won’t get in Brawl because Mother is over. Even though Lucas did get in Brawl.

I just think an XC4 is still a few years away, and more so fits into the possible speculation of next game’s DLC.

I think Nia is a possible choice for a Mio echo if they end up going with her over Noah.

And even if they don’t, I think Nia is prime AT material.

If Nia’s on the table as a Mio echo, then I suppose you can change my vote to solo Mio. Although that means she’d be using her Xenoblade 2 fighting style without Dromarch, which is a bit of a letdown but I’ll still gladly take it. Design wise, I actually prefer her in Xenoblade 3 but she’s great either way.

 

[TheQuester]

Umm what shocker niche playable rep did we get in ; SSBU ?

They are all fairly popular or have strong ties ins somehow.

I didn't say specifically niche, just sleeper as in, it's not particulary requested, like Joker, Terry, Sephiroth, Kazuya (people where asking for Heihachi) ...and i guess Hero in the west,

Now speaking of Terry, i'm surprised so many people put him on their cut lists for a new game, like he's probably the easiest 3rd party to get back.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If Nia’s on the table as a Mio echo, then I suppose you can change my vote to solo Mio. Although that means she’d be using her Xenoblade 2 fighting style without Dromarch, which is a bit of a letdown but I’ll still gladly take it. Design wise, I actually prefer her in Xenoblade 3 but she’s great either way.

If she's using Twin Rings then Dromarch will absolutely be there. There wouldn't be any Blade Mechanics, so no Raging Tiger as a special move or anything, but he'd at least be as present as Rex is for Pyra/Mythra, appearing in one or more of her taunts, and her Final Smash: Dark Maelstrom. Ideally, he'd also be a part of her dash animation, but they might not do that if they can't work out the logistics of Dromarch running around with Nia all the time (it would be a fair bit of visual clutter).

 

[DarthEnderX]

I don’t absolutely need any more Xenoblade characters but there’s a ton to love about the series.

I have no interest in seeing Xenoblade become the next Fire Emblem. Every game in the series doesn't need to have a Smash character. And we CERTAINLY don't need multiple characters per game.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I have no interest in seeing Xenoblade become the next Fire Emblem. Every game in the series doesn't need to have a Smash character. And we CERTAINLY don't need multiple characters per game.

I don't think you'll have to worry about that. We probably will get a character every time a game coincides with roster selection, but with the experience that came from Fire Emblem's reception tanking after Corrin, and roster slots being super limited, it's extremely doubtful that we'll end up with 6 Xenoblade Chronicles characters at any given time. I suppose Mio with a Nia Echo Fighter sounds plausible, and that would technically bring us to 5 characters, but that's assuming Pyra/Mythra comes back, which I find doubtful.

We definitely won't be seeing 8 characters, with 4 of them being Marth, or clones of Marth.

 

[JOJONumber691]

We already kind of know XC4 is happening. It’s essentially just moving on towards a new saga. This doesn’t mean the series will no longer have any characters in Smash.

It’s like saying Lucas won’t get in Brawl because Mother is over. Even though Lucas did get in Brawl.

I just think an XC4 is still a few years away, and more so fits into the possible speculation of next game’s DLC.

Oh sweet! Yeah Xenoblade is going to follow FE’s precedent then fully expect new characters from this series in every new Smash game.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Honestly every major 1st party series with new games can expect new characters. The only ones that don't get them are offshoots of the Mario series, Kirby, and The Legend of Zelda.

Random thought: Do you think we'll see Zonai devices as items? If so, which ones, and how do you think they'd work?

Right now I'm thinking the Rocket could be a funny throwing item that's both really fast and really powerful, but if any hitbox touches it, it yeets itself in whatever direction it's oriented in.

 

[Perkilator]

Random thought: Do you think we'll see Zonai devices as items? If so, which ones, and how do you think they'd work?

Right now I'm thinking the Rocket could be a funny throwing item that's both really fast and really powerful, but if any hitbox touches it, it yeets itself in whatever direction it's oriented in.

I think if Rauru got into Smash and he brought the Fuse mechanic with him, the Rocket would be one of the Zonai devices he could use.

 

[superprincess]

Honestly every major 1st party series with new games can expect new characters. The only ones that don't get them are offshoots of the Mario series, Kirby, and The Legend of Zelda.

No shade but can we avoid blanket statements like these? They just make speculation boring

 

[TheQuester]

Honestly every major 1st party series with new games can expect new characters. The only ones that don't get them are offshoots of the Mario series, Kirby, and The Legend of Zelda.

Random thought: Do you think we'll see Zonai devices as items? If so, which ones, and how do you think they'd work?

Right now I'm thinking the Rocket could be a funny throwing item that's both really fast and really powerful, but if any hitbox touches it, it yeets itself in whatever direction it's oriented in.

I havent played TOTK, but i think the fan zonai could work as an item, where it becomes an active windbox that pushes enenemies back and makes proyectiles faster in whatever place is placed, i'd like it to replace GUST BELLOWS at very least, which was imo, the worst item introduced in Smash 4.
Flame Emitters would probably work as well.

Oh sweet! Yeah Xenoblade is going to follow FE’s precedent then fully expect new characters from this series in every new Smash game.

I mean, is that really an issue at this point? If we get around 13/14 newcomers base game, then having a spot for Fire Emblem, Xenoblade or Pokemon isn't even that big of a deal, that would still leave us with 10 newcomers left.
I feel like this was a bigger issue back in Brawl and Smash 4, when there where plenty of All-Stars missing, nowdays there aren't many Nintendo All-Stars missing, so there's a lot they could do with those 10-11 hypotetical newcomer slots left.
Having Mio, Meowscarada and Alear playable ain't going to stop characters like Isaac, Sidon, Rauru, Magolor, Oatchi, Tom Nook, Dixie, Waluigi, Squid Sisters and the like to get in at this point if the team wants them in.

 

[JOJONumber691]

I havent played TOTK, but i think the fan zonai could work as an item, where it becomes an active windbox that pushes enenemies back and makes proyectiles faster in whatever place is placed, i'd like it to replace GUST BELLOWS at very least, which was imo, the worst item introduced in Smash 4.
Flame Emitters would probably work as well.




I mean, is that really an issue at this point? If we get around 13/14 newcomers base game, then having a spot for Fire Emblem, Xenoblade or Pokemon isn't even that big of a deal, that would still leave us with 10 newcomers left.
I feel like this was a bigger issue back in Brawl and Smash 4, when there where plenty of All-Stars missing, nowdays there aren't many Nintendo All-Stars missing, so there's a lot they could do with those 10-11 hypotetical newcomer slots left.
Having Mio, Meowscarada and Alear playable ain't going to stop characters like Isaac, Sidon, Rauru, Magolor, Oatchi, Tom Nook, Dixie, Waluigi, Squid Sisters and the like to get in at this point if the team wants them in.

I was saying that unironically. Like I said 10 pages back my favorites are the more obscure characters so I’m fine with it.

 

[Louie G.]

No shade but can we avoid blanket statements like these? They just make speculation boring

It’s also not especially true. Metroid doesn’t particularly see consistent new Smash characters on a game to game basis. Donkey Kong got nothing in the wake of Tropical Freeze. Pikmin only got an alternate costume out of it. Sheik and Toon Link kinda contradict the lack of contemporary Zelda content too, although a lot of people probably exclude them from the conversation.

Obviously getting new games that introduce or further establish popular characters bodes well for a series to continue to be on the radar, but not every series can expect to be that fortunate.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

It’s also not especially true. Metroid doesn’t particularly see consistent new Smash characters on a game to game basis. Donkey Kong got nothing in the wake of Tropical Freeze. Pikmin only got an alternate costume out of it. Sheik and Toon Link kinda contradict the lack of contemporary Zelda content too, although a lot of people probably exclude them from the conversation.

Obviously getting new games that introduce or further establish popular characters bodes well for a series to continue to be on the radar, but not every series can expect to be that fortunate.

So it's basically Pokémon, Fire Emblem and Xenoblade lol

 

[Dinoman96]

In DK's case I always felt Tropical Freeze came too late for it to have any impact going into Smash 4. Sakurai already locked down its roster in early 2012 and by then, the only new DKC game was just Returns, which only prominently featured DK and Diddy, and thus he didn't feel compelled to give it another character.

And of course, by the time the Smash Ballot began rolling out, everyone was rallying for .

 

[fogbadge]

So it's basically Pokémon, Fire Emblem and Xenoblade lol

and Mario

 

[Noipoi]

Is Xenoblade really gonna be the new Fire Emblem? Where it has like 15 characters, half of them are clones or semi-clones of one guy, and everyone’s all pissed off?

So far the series got one character in 4 and one (sort of) character in Ultimate. It’s got more in common with Animal Crossing than Fire Emblem in that regard.

 

[osby]

Is Xenoblade really gonna be the new Fire Emblem? Where it has like 15 characters, half of them are clones or semi-clones of one guy, and everyone’s all pissed off?

So far the series got one character in 4 and one (sort of) character in Ultimate. It’s got more in common with Animal Crossing than Fire Emblem in that regard.

Anime bad, please be afraid.

 

[Noipoi]

Anime bad, please be afraid.

Ah, Smash fan PTSD. Makes sense

 

[TheQuester]

1. Xenoblade 3 rep
2. Pokemon Scarlet/Violet rep
3. Fire Emblem rep
4. Tom Nook
5. Waluigi
6. Splatoon rep (Squid Sisters/DJ Octavio/Octoling)
7. Zelda rep (Sidon or Rauru)
8. Kirby rep (Magalor)
9. Isaac (retro character)
10. Oatchi or Raven Beak
11. Ring Fit Trainee
12. Akira Howard
13. WTF character
14. 3rd party

I think this could be a pretty decent list for next game base game newcomers if Sakurai goes back to having around 14 newcomers base.
I honestly think having only 1 3rd party newcomer as base game is possible since we'll likely get a lot of them as DLC, anyways.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

but that's assuming Pyra/Mythra comes back, which I find doubtful.

Any particular reason why this is? I mean they're a first party character and even now I'm pretty sure Xenoblade 2 is the highest selling out of the trilogy at least.

Also, just generally, I'd love to see Noah, Mio, or a combination of the two like a duo character, but at some point we have to ask ourselves where the limit is because the Xenoblade games are good and XC2 cracked the top 50 Switch games, but they're not like juggernauts sales-wise or anything lol

 

[osby]

Either way, I think complaining about characters before they even get in is kinda silly.

Before Ultimate was even announced, everyone was sure that we would get Rex, Spring Man and Decidueye, with the former two even getting plenty of slack for their supposed inevitability. And we all know how that turned out.

 

[Louie G.]

So it's basically Pokémon, Fire Emblem and Xenoblade lol

That isn’t true either, I’m just saying a new game isn’t assurance on its own that we should expect anything. Major releases sometimes affect character additions, sometimes they don’t. Once upon a time Sheik and Zero Suit Samus were benefactors from this. Someone like Wolf slides in because Star Fox had been getting new games at the time. Palutena in Smash 4, Isabelle in Ultimate… Mario in every game.

I don’t even think Fire Emblem and Xenoblade are guaranteed anything if the timing doesn’t line up. Engage’s success was moderate at best / would be too late to be a hot promo pick and we really have to stop coming to conclusions about Xenoblade after only two characters. Noah and Mio aren’t as widely popular as Pyra and Mythra were.

 

[Schnee117]

You don't want more Xenoblade because you're a Smash Fan™ with an irrational fear of anime swordsmen
I don't want more Xenoblade because the series is complete and utter garbage written by a Zack Snyder tier fraud.

We are not the same

 

[Sucumbio]

Is Xenoblade really gonna be the new Fire Emblem?

I do not believe so. If the next Xenoblade game gets a character it's likely at the expense of an existing rep.

 

[fogbadge]

You don't want more Xenoblade because you're a Smash Fan™ with an irrational fear of anime swordsmen
I don't want more Xenoblade because the series is complete and utter garbage written by a Zack Snyder tier fraud.

We are not the same

so cause it’s anime

 

[TheQuester]

I do not believe so. If the next Xenoblade game gets a character it's likely at the expense of an existing rep.

Honestly, there's 0% chance they cut Shulk or Pyra/Mythra, it just makes no sense to cut them, we'll likely get Nio or Noah in addition of those two.
It's like people saying Robin and Byleth are going to get cut for Alear (i've seen people saying this), it just makes no sense whatsoever, cuting Corrin for Alear i could definitely see, through.

 

[Noipoi]

Xenoblade’s one of those things where I really tried to get into it because everyone was telling me how great it was, but it really never clicked with me.

No shade, I respect how far the franchise has come, but it’s just not my thing.

Also I think the character design in 2 especially is ridiculous. So…a little bit of shade