Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[JOJONumber691]

Anime bad, please be afraid.

Yeah that’s what I was referring to and I like Xenoblade, but those fans are the most vocal so they will complain regardless.

 

[fogbadge]

Honestly, there's 0% chance they cut Shulk or Pyra/Mythra, it just makes no sense to cut them, we'll likely get Nio or Noah in addition of those two.
It's like people saying Robin and Byleth are going to get cut for Alear (i've seen people saying this), it just makes no sense whatsoever, cuting Corrin for Alear i could definitely see, through.

tell that to mewtwo

 

[DarthEnderX]

I don't want more Xenoblade because the series is complete and utter garbage written by a Zack Snyder tier fraud.

I played through the XB1 remake and did not care for it. I greatly dislike the combat. And it didn't inspire me to want to play more of the series.

Some great music though.

so cause it’s anime

I love anime. When it's good.

 

[Noipoi]

I played through the XB1 remake and did not care for it. I greatly dislike the combat. And it didn't inspire me to want to play more of the series.

Some great music though.

I had pretty much the exact same experience.

I hate when we agree

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It’s also not especially true. Metroid doesn’t particularly see consistent new Smash characters on a game to game basis. Donkey Kong got nothing in the wake of Tropical Freeze. Pikmin only got an alternate costume out of it. Sheik and Toon Link kinda contradict the lack of contemporary Zelda content too, although a lot of people probably exclude them from the conversation.

Obviously getting new games that introduce or further establish popular characters bodes well for a series to continue to be on the radar, but not every series can expect to be that fortunate.

I mean...Metroid fell off for quite a while and Pikmin is still fairly small (though both are becoming much bigger right now).

 

[Wunderwaft]

Ain't no way Pyra/Mythra are getting cut from the roster unless the cuts are really damn deep. They're from the best selling Xeno game (XC3 still didn't beat XC2's numbers) and they're popular characters to boot. Hell, I'll even go further to the next step and say them returning as veterans is likelier than Noah/Mio joining the roster. This isn't to say that Noah/Mio's chances aren't good, this is just to say that Pyra/Mythra are here to stay and they're not getting cycled out or whatever.

 

[cashregister9]

bottom text

 

[Noipoi]

View attachment 390023
bottom text

And that’s radical, brother. Don’t let nobody **** on your good time.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I played through the XB1 remake and did not care for it. I greatly dislike the combat. And it didn't inspire me to want to play more of the series.

Some great music though.

I love anime. When it's good.

Your mistake was playing XB1 specifically. Even the Xeno fans agree the gameplay sucked in that one.

(It's me, I'm Xeno fans).

 

[BritishGuy54]

Is Xenoblade really gonna be the new Fire Emblem? Where it has like 15 characters, half of them are clones or semi-clones of one guy, and everyone’s all pissed off?

So far the series got one character in 4 and one (sort of) character in Ultimate. It’s got more in common with Animal Crossing than Fire Emblem in that regard.

Well, Fire Emblem only had 8 characters in Ultimate, and they were fine swapping out a few each game until Ultimate.

Basically, I’d expect Shulk and Pyra/Mythra to be recurring faces for the next few games, and we see some characters get cycled through. Noah likely gets cut in the future in favour of an XC5 protagonist or the like.

Or god forbid, Everyone is Here actually going on for all eternity and it’s a Fire Emblem situation all over again for the rest of time. After all, Everyone is there, right?

Any particular reason why this is? I mean they're a first party character and even now I'm pretty sure Xenoblade 2 is the highest selling out of the trilogy at least.

Also, just generally, I'd love to see Noah, Mio, or a combination of the two like a duo character, but at some point we have to ask ourselves where the limit is because the Xenoblade games are good and XC2 cracked the top 50 Switch games, but they're not like juggernauts sales-wise or anything lol

XC2 is indeed the highest selling game of the trilogy. Pythra are here to stay for the next few entries.

I’d say the limit is like a lot of franchises in Smash, being four, neatly in the same category as say, Metroid. Definitely less than Mario and Fire Emblem, but certainly more than say, Star Fox.

I’d also say the lineup I’d expect is Shulk, Pythra, Noah or Mio (one of them, not both), and an echo fighter of some sort.

Ain't no way Pyra/Mythra are getting cut from the roster unless the cuts are really damn deep. They're from the best selling Xeno game (XC3 still didn't beat XC2's numbers) and they're popular characters to boot. Hell, I'll even go further to the next step and say them returning as veterans is likelier than Noah/Mio joining the roster. This isn't to say that Noah/Mio's chances aren't good, this is just to say that Pyra/Mythra are here to stay and they're not getting cycled out or whatever.

I think they have the best chance out the current first parties from Ultimate, alongside Isabelle and Ridley to remain under deep cuts. Even more impressive when they originated in the Switch era.

 

[Schnee117]

so cause it’s anime

I like anime when the anime doesn't have an adult woman sleepwalking into a minor's bed and playing it for laughs or having another woman agonise over how she can be more attractive to said minor or having them all wind up grooming said minor.

 

[Ivander]

I guess I'm the only one who doesn't care about how many characters a series get. But then again, in my version of Smash Bros, any recurring series would have at least 10 characters or more (if possible. looks at the Yoshi series). In terms of Classic characters, there would be over 10 Classic characters. While Mario, Zelda, Kirby, Pokemon, Fire Emblem and Final Fantasy would have over 20 characters each.

 

[Shinuto]

I like anime when the anime doesn't have an adult woman sleepwalking into a minor's bed and playing it for laughs or having another woman agonise over how she can be more attractive to said minor or having them all wind up grooming said minor.

You making it a way bigger deal than it is. Like your comment here is the first time I've heard someone complain those bits. No on cares not even people who hate Xc2 fanservicey nature bring this up.

 

[TheQuester]

tell that to mewtwo

While that's a fair point, i feel cuts like that only happen in extreme cases, so i wouldn't expect cuts like that to happen again unless they seriously run out of time.


Characters i could see getting cut because of possible lower priority (at least compared to the other group, anwyays):

(I expect all of those characters to get cut and not return as DLC)

3rd parties i could see missing the base roster because of licensing, but they could return as DLC:

(I think they'll try to have Cloud base game at very least)

Characters i could only see cut in extreme cases like if they run out of time, and if they're cut i feel like they have a decent chance to return as DLC:

(I expect most of those characters to return base game, but it's possible some of them could get cut if they're run out of time).


I feel like every other character outside of those are 100% safe and the last group is relatively safe, anyways.

 

[Perkilator]

I dunno about you but as someone who’s only played Xenoblade 3, that game’s story and gameplay is S-tier.

 

[BuckleyTim]

only ever really played Torna and 3 but if the comedy sequences in that are any indication I'm gonna presume whatever grody stuff is in 2 is drawn out unnecessarily. i like 3 especially but hearing a lot that they apparently stopped doing most of the things people didn't like about the shift from 1->2 doesn't exactly makes things hunky-dory with me when the things people did not like in 2 are the things schnee was talking about

 

[Wunderwaft]

I think they have the best chance out the current first parties from Ultimate, alongside Isabelle and Ridley to remain under deep cuts. Even more impressive when they originated in the Switch era.

And K. Rool too!
My heart believes the king is too popular to be cut and he won't really have to worry about walking the plank unless the cuts reach the 30-ish range.

Spoiler

I assume you didn't mention Inkling since they're in the uncuttable category right?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You don't want more Xenoblade because you're a Smash Fan™ with an irrational fear of anime swordsmen
I don't want more Xenoblade because the series is complete and utter garbage written by a Zack Snyder tier fraud.

From what I've seen (which admittedly is just Rebel Moon) Zack Snyder's writing isn't garbage so much as he just tries to cram a tv show's worth of ideas into a movie. I mean the structure was right there: Episode 1 kicks off the plot, episodes 2-5 gets the gang together and gives them more than 5 minutes to establish their character and give them an arc. Episode 6 "whuh oh, betrayal!" And the emotional punchine actually hits because the character's been onscreen for long enough that I haven't forgotten who he even is. Then episodes 7 & 8 are the climax, wrap up, and setup for season 2.

I like anime when the anime doesn't have an adult woman sleepwalking into a minor's bed and playing it for laughs or having another woman agonise over how she can be more attractive to said minor or having them all wind up grooming said minor.

Yeeeah while I think Xenoblade Chronicles and Xenoblade Chronicles 3 are written really well, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 can get pretty rough, and sometimes goes into ick territory. Everything involving Torra's running "gag" is gross and ruins the character.

I played through the XB1 remake and did not care for it. I greatly dislike the combat. And it didn't inspire me to want to play more of the series.

Some great music though.

I think Xenoblade Chronicles's combat is alright, but it's definitely the worst of the three, and it doesn't help that Sharla doesn't synergize well with Shulk or Reyn, making things awkward until Dunban shows up.

Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is very fun, but it takes hours until you can take the handicap off and actually start to have that fun. Seriously, making players unlock canceling arts into other arts as far in as the second whole area was a mistake.

Xenoblade Chronicles 3 is the best, taking what worked from the previous two games, and ditching the rest while adding on some other fun mechanics. You probably still wouldn't like it if the action combat part is what you hated about the combat system, but if it wasn't it might be worth a shot.

 

[Ivander]

Aren't Pyra and Mythra, and Blades in general, a type of robot to begin with or something akin to them?

 

[BritishGuy54]

And K. Rool too!
My heart believes the king is too popular to be cut and he won't really have to worry about walking the plank unless the cuts reach the 30-ish range.

Spoiler

I assume you didn't mention Inkling since they're in the uncuttable category right?

Yeah, Inkling is untouchable. Splatoon is a modern mainstay, and like Fire Emblem, Pikmin, Animal Crossing, and Xenoblade, would be included if we cut Smash down to just 12 fighters like in 64.

K. Rool is like the new Mewtwo. He’s gonna be begged for next game and ends up as DLC.

On an unrelated note, I think two things.

One, the Smash fandom really, really hates echo fighters and clones in general.

Two, I think the next game could be a bit of a generational divide. A lot of older faces are going to be kept in the dust, and become ‘retro’.

 

[Noipoi]

K Rool ain’t going anywhere, they know people love him.

 

[Gengar84]

You don't want more Xenoblade because you're a Smash Fan™ with an irrational fear of anime swordsmen
I don't want more Xenoblade because the series is complete and utter garbage written by a Zack Snyder tier fraud.

We are not the same

I played through the XB1 remake and did not care for it. I greatly dislike the combat. And it didn't inspire me to want to play more of the series.

Some great music though.

I love anime. When it's good.

I think the exploration and music are the strong points of the series. The games are fairly linear but each area is huge and fun to run around in and explore. The music is also top tier and the series has some of my favorite songs in gaming. The story and characters are fine for the most part with some notable exceptions both high and low. The stories can be kind of hard for me to follow sometimes despite playing every game. Other RPGs generally have more interesting stories and characters as a whole. The combat can be fun but I can definitely understand it’s not for everyone and can get a bit too convoluted for its own good at times in my opinion. Despite these weaknesses, I definitely wouldn’t call it a trash series. The strong points of the series really helps the games stand out from other RPGs.

 

[fogbadge]

I like anime when the anime doesn't have an adult woman sleepwalking into a minor's bed and playing it for laughs or having another woman agonise over how she can be more attractive to said minor or having them all wind up grooming said minor.

i forgot about that

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Aren't Pyra and Mythra, and Blades in general, a type of robot to begin with or something akin to them?

The artificial blades are, but the regular ones are more like elementals. They were created during the formation of the world, keep getting reborn so long as their core crystal isn't damaged, eventually turn into titans somehow, and are born from said titans.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

I loved Xenoblade 1, but I'm just one of those guys when It comes to Smash lol. Wouldn't even particularly miss Shulk if he was to get cut, to be honest.
I'd like to say I'd miss Gaur Plain but Sakurai made his cat design that stage.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Regardless on your opinion of the series I do think we can all agree that having the Mobius battle theme in the next game is definitely something to look forward to (unless they gut it because it's 5 minutes long or something).

 

[TheQuester]

And K. Rool too!
My heart believes the king is too popular to be cut and he won't really have to worry about walking the plank unless the cuts reach the 30-ish range.

Spoiler

I assume you didn't mention Inkling since they're in the uncuttable category right?

They're not going to cut K. Rool.
I honestly do not understand why people think we're getting those drastic cuts.

This is kind of my expected cut list, nothing TOO drastic 1st party-wise:

, , , and unfortunately maybe: , because of licensing.

Maybe a character or two from this list if they can't finish the character in time, but i expect them to return as DLC if they're cut.


are definitely coming back, idk why people think those are getting cut.

 

[Gengar84]

Regardless on your opinion of the series I do think we can all agree that having the Mobius battle theme in the next game is definitely something to look forward to (unless they gut it because it's 5 minutes long or something).

Definitely. That and the chain attack theme are awesome. I’d love both in Smash whether or not we get another character.

 

[Speed Weed]

I played some of Xenoblade 2, like 3-ish chapters in, and didn't care much for it. Did not like the combat at all and the story.....well it wasn't awful but it wasn't super duper grabbing me either. Though from what I've read I probably shouldn't judge the series based on this one lol

Either way, I think nowadays I'd be more interested in picking up the other Xeno games, like Xenogears and Xenosaga, but there's such a ginormous amount of stuff I'd like to play either way that it can be difficult to tell whether I'll ever get around to them

 

[Shinuto]

You don't want more Xenoblade because you're a Smash Fan™ with an irrational fear of anime swordsmen
I don't want more Xenoblade because the series is complete and utter garbage written by a Zack Snyder tier fraud.

Not liking it is one thing but calling it garbage on the level of ZACK SYNDER shows me not only do you have no idea what you're talking about but that you also can't look at things from a non bias perspective

 

[YeppersPeppers]

I played Xeno 2 first, which was okay. I didn't mind it. I then played Xeno 1 (Wii), and it retroactively made Xeno 2 worse for me. Not sure what it was, but something about the first game just hit a lot of right notes for me. I then put 20 hours into Xeno 3 before dropping it completely. I don't really have any personal investment in more content from the series appearing in Smash but it'll happen and I'll be fine with it. Definitely gave the series a strong shot before realizing it ain't for me in the end (aside from the first game).

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I played some of Xenoblade 2, like 3-ish chapters in, and didn't care much for it. Did not like the combat at all

Did you unlock the ability to cancel arts into other arts? Chapter 3 is right about the time you're able to do that, and it pretty much makes the combat system.

 

[Delzethin]

Xenoblade is on the upswing lately, so I fully expect it to gain more content next game. Xenoblade 3 in particular has two main characters with standout abilities who could be interesting newcomers easily, whether just one of them or both.

That fact does not devalue any other series. Just because one that is RPG-based is on the rise doesn't mean platformers must be getting screwed (or any other pair of genres you want to slot in there), and I say that as someone whose two favorite genres are platformers and JRPGs. This doesn't have to be a zero-sum discussion.

Also, Mewtwo wasn't cut in Brawl to make room for a newcomer. Based on leftover data, it seems he was planned to be in but the devs ran out of time to finish him. Why some people still think Lucario was meant as a replacement just because of a loosely similar neutral special, despite the two being very different in nearly every other way, is beyond me.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

I've played about half of Xenoblade 1, up to where Melia first shows up, and enjoyed it a lot, only stopped because I was playing the Wii version on an emulator and when I moved to University dorms I lost access to my PC for now. It's tropey but I have some tolerance for that, and I like the setting and the combat, it plays like a singleplayer MMO and takes the satisfying aspects of that. Reminds me a bit of NEO: The World Ends With You, or I guess the other way around.

The reason I played it is because I got gifted Xenoblade 2 for the Switch, played a couple of hours of it and realised I would probably get more out of it and the story if I had played the original game first. Based on what I've seen it definitely leans very hard into another subsect of anime tropes, which I also have enough tolerance for but is also understandably a big turn-off for a lot of people, so it is what it is.

It seems like adding Noah or Mio would make a lot of people happy so it'd be nice for them to get in.

 

[TheQuester]

I'll try to be a bit more "realistic" since some people might feel like we're getting 15 cuts minimum:
: which would be 16 veterans.
Hero, Sora, Wolf, Palutena and Lucas would eventually return as DLC, with Joker, Plant and Bowser Jr also begin a possibility as DLC vets, but not as guaranteed i feel. I feel like they'll try to have Cloud and Seph at base game as well.
This would leave us at 82 - 16 = 66 vets + 13 newcomers, would lead us to a 78 base game roster.
The trade-off would be having most DLC fighters be returning betterans with a few newcomers sprinkled there, however we would get a healty amount of newcomers in the base game with 13.
I tried to make it as good as possible while also begin realistic, i just think anything to drastic could kill the sales, tbh.

 

[fogbadge]

I’m beginning to think the only xenoblade representation in smash I’m fine with is shulk. Guar plain has too wide a gap in the centre and metal face just gets in the way. Cloud sea of alrest is pretty uninspired for a stage trying to cram in a lot of the game. Riki is a pretty poor assist trophy which I’d still say is better than all the over powered ones.

I enjoyed all 4 xenoblade games but can’t say they made it into smash unscathed

 

[Gengar84]

Xenoblade 2 is definitely the low point in the series for me. As much as I really like Nia as a character, the overall tone of the game just wasn’t for me. I think the worst offenders were whatever they were going for with Torra and Poppy. A lot of the characters just felt like cliches. Mythra just felt like a typical tsundere and Zeke just felt like a typical Chinubio. Zeke is kind of cool but nothing really made him stand out beyond that base trope.

Then there’s the excessive fanservice with a lot of designs, particularly some of the blades. I still had fun because those high points of the series were still true for 2 but the low points make it totally understandable why someone would have a negative view of the series if that was their only game they played.

Nothing against people that really enjoyed that aspect of the game. It’s totally subjective that’s cool. It just wasn’t really my thing personally. I do think Xenoblade 3 did a lot to help with this for me. The story was still kind of confusing, particularly the DLC but there wasn’t really anything I outright disliked about that game.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

All right. I've finished rethinking my Bandana Waddle Dee move set idea, and I think I've landed on something pretty good, or at least a lot less jank. This time I've included ideas from the Parasol ability to help fill things out in a less wonky way, but I've nixed the beam ability since the move set doesn't really benefit from it being there. I've also formatted it a bit differently. Let me know if it helps or if I should go back to what I did before If I make another move set concept.

Spoiler: Essay Incoming

Bandana Waddle Dee is a small swordfighter who fights using a spear that can turn itself into a parasol. His movement speed is on the slower side, paying the price for his large disjointed attacks, however his air acceleration is above average, allowing him to position himself in the air more easily. His fall speed is fairly mediocre, combined with his two midair jumps and the air stalling on his neutral special, he can stay in the air for a decent amount of time, but the character isn’t quite considered floaty.

Bandana Waddle Dee was initially characterized as King Dedede’s most loyal subject, with more recent titles focusing on his friendship with Kirby. This version of his move set incorporates both ideas, with some of his moves being inspired by both characters. The sound design for this character is heavily inspired by, if not ripped straight from, the Kirby series: His spear thrusts are quiet whooshes, but the hit sound effects are super chunky. He’s also got a quiet, squeaky little voice from his appearances in more recent games.

Spoiler: Spacing Tools

As a swordfighter, Bandana Waddle Dee makes use of several large, disjointed attacks to keep opponents at bay in the mid-range. For this purpose, his primary tools are his neutral attack, side tilt, and forward aerial. His neutral attack is Spear Thrust, which has a lot of reach for a neutral attack, and combos into a rapid jab: Multispear Thrust. The final hit of Multispear Thrust has him take a step forward, increasing its range. His side tilt is Parasol Drill, a thrust with the spear in parasol mode. Bandana Waddle Dee twirls his parasol while its fully extended giving the attack multi-hit properties. The attack is quite slow overall, but the parasol blocks incoming attacks and projectiles while its open. His forward aerial is also a multi-hit attack, consisting of three thrusts of his spear. The duration of the move is quite quick, but each hit has a lot of hit stop to make each thrust feel chunky, achieving a similar effect as with Cloud’s forward smash, though not quite as pronounced.

Neutral attack and forward aerial are both excellent pokes with great range, especially for a character so small. Neutral attack has less end lag than forward aerial, but the latter attack allows for more maneuverability, and can even combo into itself a lot of the time as a result. Forward tilt is too slow to be a poke, and moves like it tend to be not so good, but the added protection it offers hopefully makes up the difference, allowing for it to be a anti-zoning tool.

To compliment these moves, Bandana Waddle Dee has an anti-air up tilt; an attack where he unfurls his parasol above and slightly in front of him. Like with his forward tilt, the open parasol protects him from attacks, but the attack has a blind spot behind him, and he’s still completely vulnerable from the side. At low percentages, Bandana Waddle Dee can combo into aerial attacks when landing this move.

All of these attacks are too slow in terms of startup to be super useful at close ranges, so if your opponent gets too close to you, you’re going to struggle to get opponents away. However, while they’re not the best, Bandana Waddle Dee does have some tools to get out of pressure sequences.

Spoiler: Close Range Tools, Up Air, and Down Air

Bandana Waddle Dee’s down tilt is a slide attack that moves him forward, and low profiles a lot of aerial attacks, and projectiles with thin hitboxes like Fox’s Laser. The attack’s startup is more comparable to the boxing tools that other characters have, but has a decent amount of end lag, making it very punishable if the opponent is expecting it. Alternatively, Bandana Waddle Dee’s neutral aerial is Twinkle Star, a spinning cartwheel attack with fast startup that acts as a great out of shield option, especially with the character’s aerial drift. It’s pretty stubby though, so characters with large disjoints can beat it out.

Bandana Waddle Dee’s grab is fairly quick, but really short ranged, making it only useful in these close ranged scenarios. His forward and back throws are suplexes like Kirby’s, and launch opponents away from him in order to regain stage control. His down throw is Parasol Twirl: The opponent is thrown below Bandana Waddle Dee as he balances on his twirling parasol, grinding it into them. This attack can set up aerial combos with his neutral and forward aerials at low to mid percents. His up throw is Circus Throw: Bandana Waddle Dee twirls the opponent around on his parasol before launching them straight up. If you can read the opponent’s D.I., this is a great tool for setting up juggles.

Once Bandana Waddle Dee has set up a juggle, he is great at exploiting it with his up aerial; an overhead parasol twirl inspired by King Dedede’s up aerial. It’s an absolute a monster of a juggle tool due to its multi-hit and protection properties, so to compensate, it doesn’t have any K.O. power whatsoever.

Bandana Waddle Dee’s down aerial is a drill kick similar to Kirby’s in aesthetics, but instead of a quick multi-hit, Bandana Waddle Dee’s version is a single hit attack with a strong meteor smash. The startup on the attack is quite slow and the move itself is quite stubby, so which means that Bandana Waddle Dee has to rely on his air maneuverability, and his multiple jumps to get out of juggle scenarios.

Spoiler: K.O. Options

In order to score K.O.s, Bandana Waddle Dee has a few different options. His aforementioned down aerial is good at dunking off stage opponents, but its speed makes it fairly limited to just being an edge guarding tool. His back aerial, a backward kick, trades range for speed and power, allowing him to fish for knockouts with it, but also making it difficult for him to land it against other swordfighters.

For long ranged K.O. options, Bandana Waddle Dee’s forward and up smash fit the bill. His forward smash is a powerful spear thrust similar to Bylteth’s, with a sweet spot at the tip of the spear, and the ability to angle it up or down. During the move, inputting an attack in the opposite direction has Bandana Waddle Dee perform Reverse Spear Thrust, which deals slightly more damage, and covers the space behind him, but isn’t chargeable, or angleable. His up smash is Skyward Thrust, a vertical thrust of the spear, with a sweet spot at the tip, and some hitboxes at the sides that prevent the move from whiffing at point blank.

Bandana Waddle Dee’s down smash is a spinning smack with the spear in parasol mode with an animation similar to King Dedede’s down smash. The parasol never unfurls in this attack, so it doesn’t have the usual protective properties. It also doesn’t have the power of his up and side smash attacks, but covers both sides, which is useful in a tech chase, and is effective closer to his body.

Bandana Waddle Dee’s dash attack is a faceplant similar to King Dedede’s. It’s not quite as slow or powerful, but it can K.O. fairly easily at high percents. Still, his other options are much more useful to him.

Spoiler: Special Moves

Bandana Waddle Dee’s special moves are where his uniqueness really starts to shine through. His neutral special, Waddle Spear Throw, throws a spear in an arc similar to Mii Brawler’s Shot Put. Theres a bit of startup and end lag on this move, but it’s still a decent neutral tool when opponents are staying out of range of your pokes, and your vertical movement is halted at the start, allowing you to stay in the air longer. Even better, the spear doesn’t disappear until it hits the ground or enters the blast zone, allowing you to snipe opponents that are trying to recover, and set up ledge traps by throwing it off stage. Charging the move becomes Waddle Spear Barrage, which throws three spears, making it threaten more space at the cost of a bit more end lag.

His side special is Ground Thrust. On the ground, Bandana Waddle Dee thrusts his spear into the platform and charges forward. The initial thrust is a hit grab, and opponents that get hit by it will be along for the ride. The dash itself has a hitbox, but it just weakly hits opponents away. The dash ends with a fairly vertical spear slash, tossing any opponents caught in the hit grab. Up to three opponents can be caught in the hit grab at a time, while the rest are hit away. Ground Thrust is a useful burst movement tool that can move Bandana Waddle Dee about halfway across most stages while threatening the space he’s moving in to.

The move is normally highly punishable on whiff, but pressing the jump button performs Pole Vault, which cancels the attack, and sends Bandana Waddle Dee flying forward. This part of the move has no hitbox, and has a lot of momentum, making it highly committal, but it can be used to avoid a tough situation by running away from the problem. If any opponents were caught in the hit grab, they are left behind with a little bit of extra damage.

In the air, Ground Thrust is a spear thrust at a downward 45 angle that keeps its hit grab properties, tossing away any victim caught by it, but nixing the forward dash part. If the attack whiffs, the end slash doesn’t happen. This version of Ground Thrust is decent at covering certain angles below Bandana Waddle Dee, but is somewhat slow all around, partially because it’s a powerful attack angle, but also so he can’t pull off the silly “haha gotem gg’s” ledge shenanigans that Corrin can with Dragon Lunge.

His up special is Waddle Copter. Bandana Waddle Dee twirls his spear over his head, allowing him to fly around for a short time, then slowly falls to the ground. Charging this move causes him to fly for longer. The spinning spear creates a protective hitbox above him, but he’s still vulnerable from the sides, and below. He also doesn’t travel very quickly while using this attack, so if you use it above your opponent, you become a sitting duck, with the air time being your only saving grace. Certain attacks can hit through the spear as well, so time your recoveries wisely.

Bandana Waddle Dee’s down special is Moon Drop. Bandana Waddle Dee leaps into the air, then thrusts his spear straight down, and spins as he drops. This attack is a multi-hit that drags opponents down where they’re launched away upon hitting the ground. On the ground, the initial leap leads into the plunge, and in the air, it’s a regular stall, then fall attack similar to Corrin’s down aerial. When landing, two stars pop out on the sides, dealing damage to nearby opponents. This attack is mainly a causal free for all move, but it can be used for risky drag-down K.O.s off stage (or mutually assured destruction if you do it low enough), to drop, and snap to the ledge, or as a mixup to your landings.

Spoiler: Final Smash: Megaton Punch

Bandana Waddle Dee’s Final Smash is Megaton Punch. Two stone blocks drop down in front of him, and if they hit an opponent, they are trapped in them as more blocks fall from the sky, damaging any opponents that get in the way. Once the stack has gotten comically high, Bandana Waddle Dee jumps on top of them, and then punches a hole through them, destroying the blocks and launching the opponents trapped within. The smash ball version of the attack zooms in on Bandana Waddle Dee for a moment as he begins his punch for some extra dramatic flair.

TLDR: Bandana Waddle Dee is a small swordfighter that uses long, disjointed hitboxes to keep opponents in the mid-range, and has some counter zoning tools that help him with long ranged fighters. His advantage state is really good, with an amazing juggling up aerial, and good tools for shenanigans at the ledge. However, his game plan shuts down when characters get right next to him, and his disadvantage state is pretty bad, as his third jump, and slightly higher than average air acceleration are the only really good tools he has to get out of it.

 

[fogbadge]

Xenoblade 2 is definitely the low point in the series for me. As much as I really like Nia as a character, the overall tone of the game just wasn’t for me. I think the worst offenders were whatever they were going for with Torra and Poppy. A lot of the characters just felt like cliches. Mythra just felt like a typical tsundere and Zeke just felt like a typical Chinubio. Zeke is kind of cool but nothing really made him stand out beyond that base trope.

Then there’s the excessive fanservice with a lot of designs, particularly some of the blades. I still had fun because those high points of the series were still true for 2 but the low points make it totally understandable why someone would have a negative view of the series if that was their only game they played.

well I certainly agree that tora and poppy is pretty creepy and pythra I’d only rate as just above them on a list of how much I liked the main characters but personally I found zeke hilarious

sure 2 has it’s flaws but at the end of the day they’re not what I remember the game for

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I'll try to be a bit more "realistic" since some people might feel like we're getting 15 cuts minimum:
: which would be 16 veterans.
Hero, Sora, Wolf, Palutena and Lucas would eventually return as DLC, with Joker, Plant and Bowser Jr also begin a possibility as DLC vets, but not as guaranteed i feel. I feel like they'll try to have Cloud and Seph at base game as well.
This would leave us at 82 - 16 = 66 vets + 13 newcomers, would lead us to a 78 base game roster.
The trade-off would be having most DLC fighters be returning betterans with a few newcomers sprinkled there, however we would get a healty amount of newcomers in the base game with 13.
I tried to make it as good as possible while also begin realistic, i just think anything to drastic could kill the sales, tbh.

I sincerely doubt they're cutting Sora next game after confirming he was the most wanted character on the Ballot. That feels like a pretty easy freebie. I know Sakurai has said there were hurdles involved with his inclusion, but Disney was also keen on the idea, so now that that communication channel is open, I would assume it'd be a lot easier the second time.

Also not sure why Palutena and Bowser Jr. are getting cut either, especially when Bowser Jr. just had a pretty prominent role in a Mario game 7 months ago,

Granted I'm not sure who you'd cut instead since imo most characters in Ultimate's roster have something going for them to come back, but that's just my two cents.