Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Perkilator]

Haven’t been on here in a loooooooooooong time, wanted to say I’ve been playing the original SEGA Saturn Sakura Wars game and you know damn Sakura actually seems perfect for Smash I would love her.

That’s all I wanted to say but I also have some ideas as to how she could be implemented, it’s a very unique game and I’d love to share but only if peeps are interested.

Of course! I’d love to see your ideas!

 

[NintenZ]

Of course! I’d love to see your ideas!

Thanks so much Perk!

So like I’ve seen a lot of Sakura movesets, not to diminish them or anything but I haven’t actually seen many that take advantage of the game’s unique features. For example in the games there is a Spirit Guage that’s used, in the second game the more it’s filled up the more powerful she becomes before she can unleash a one-hit kill attack. I was thinking that could be used to separate her from characters like Cloud and Little Mac. The more the guage is filled, the higher her stats become and the more powerful she is, when it’s full, you can choose to hold onto this, or use Cherry Blossom Smite, which has a small opening but when it lands deals devastating damage and knock back, but you lose your spirit energy after you use it.

For her other attacks, I imagined this, her neutral special is her standard attack from the game, her side special is Restore, she can use this twice in battle and it functions like Wonderwing where you have it based on stock. You can use it on yourself and in team battles you can use it to heal other players on your team. Her down special would be Rest, where she can restore spirit energy at the cost of vulnerability. As for her Up-Special, I was not entirely sure what to do for this, my ideas were having her use a Mini-Kobu to propel herself up, or something where she gathers herself in Cherry-blossom petals, and propels herself up, wouldn’t deal damage but deals a lot of knockback.

Of course her standard moves would be standard katana techniques, but for her down-smash, had some fun and had her being out a mop, in reference to the cleaning minigame from the first game.

And her Final Smash I envision looking something like her attack shown in this video:

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this isn’t the most coherent post I admit but these are just some ideas for how I think she could work and be unique on her own, of course, tell me your thoughts and opinions and I’d love to hear.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Yeah the Kobu is basically the only thing that makes sense for a final smash

 

[NintenZ]

Yeah the Kobu is basically the only thing that makes sense for a final smash

I’m actually not used to Ogami having a voice since he doesn’t in the original game so this was quite jarring haha

 

[Speed Weed]

I’m actually not used to Ogami having a voice since he doesn’t in the original game so this was quite jarring haha

I think he does have voice lines for stuff like attacks, yeah? He just doesn't have them in the VN sections

 

[NintenZ]

I think he does have voice lines for stuff like attacks, yeah? He just doesn't have them in the VN sections

In cutscenes and attacks he does yeah, they’re so brief I forgot about them tho lol

 

[Perkilator]

Thanks so much Perk!

So like I’ve seen a lot of Sakura movesets, not to diminish them or anything but I haven’t actually seen many that take advantage of the game’s unique features. For example in the games there is a Spirit Guage that’s used, in the second game the more it’s filled up the more powerful she becomes before she can unleash a one-hit kill attack. I was thinking that could be used to separate her from characters like Cloud and Little Mac. The more the guage is filled, the higher her stats become and the more powerful she is, when it’s full, you can choose to hold onto this, or use Cherry Blossom Smite, which has a small opening but when it lands deals devastating damage and knock back, but you lose your spirit energy after you use it.

For her other attacks, I imagined this, her neutral special is her standard attack from the game, her side special is Restore, she can use this twice in battle and it functions like Wonderwing where you have it based on stock. You can use it on yourself and in team battles you can use it to heal other players on your team. Her down special would be Rest, where she can restore spirit energy at the cost of vulnerability. As for her Up-Special, I was not entirely sure what to do for this, my ideas were having her use a Mini-Kobu to propel herself up, or something where she gathers herself in Cherry-blossom petals, and propels herself up, wouldn’t deal damage but deals a lot of knockback.

Of course her standard moves would be standard katana techniques, but for her down-smash, had some fun and had her being out a mop, in reference to the cleaning minigame from the first game.

And her Final Smash I envision looking something like her attack shown in this video:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

this isn’t the most coherent post I admit but these are just some ideas for how I think she could work and be unique on her own, of course, tell me your thoughts and opinions and I’d love to hear.

I like this idea! The only thing I'd add is for Hyakka Ryoran to be in the moveset somewhere.

My idea for Sakura as a whole is to incorporate the LIPS system for Sakura's down special, where she would call upon Ogami to perform one of four attacks from the Command Menu. A successful attack would raise Trust, which in turn slowly raises Sakura's stats.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I’m actually not used to Ogami having a voice since he doesn’t in the original game so this was quite jarring haha

I was gonna ask about that since i remember the protagonists from 5 and 6 having voice actors so i thought it was weird.

 

[NintenZ]

I like this idea! The only thing I'd add is for Hyakka Ryoran to be in the moveset somewhere.

My idea for Sakura as a whole is to incorporate the LIPS system for Sakura's down special, where she would call upon Ogami to perform one of four attacks from the Command Menu. A successful attack would raise Trust, which in turn slowly raises Sakura's stats.

actually that could work as a recovery, I’ll do that great idea.

LIPS system isn’t a bad idea either, my thought was Ogami could be an assist trophy who calls upon shields to protect whoever summoned him but I think having him be a part of Sakura’s moveset isn’t a bad idea either

 

[Perkilator]

Delzethin released a Remake It on Echo Fighters

 

[Laniv]

This is sort of related to the topic of wanting things to feel fresh, but I'd like if at the very least every character got a new victory theme instead of constantly reusing the ones from Brawl. Like in Ultimate, Zelda and Mother got new victory themes, but why didn't everyone else? Instead we got Yoshi's victory theme absolutely hacked to pieces.

i feel a similar way about zelda

All things considered, this would have been perfect for Zelda if they gave her her own victory theme:

 

[Wonder Smash]

Funny. I was just thinking about a SEGA crossover fighting game again and all of a sudden, somebody mention Sakura Wars. lol

 

[Ivander]

This is sort of related to the topic of wanting things to feel fresh, but I'd like if at the very least every character got a new victory theme instead of constantly reusing the ones from Brawl. Like in Ultimate, Zelda and Mother got new victory themes, but why didn't everyone else?

For some, I'd certainly like them to remix some themes to update them from the Brawl version, but I wouldn't give every character a new victory theme. For a couple, sure. I'd like Donkey Kong himself to have a more heroic take on the Bonus finish theme similar to Smash 64 and Melee. And the intro to Wolf's theme, especially based on the Star Fox Assault version, would work great for Wolf.
But part of the reason I don't want to give every character their own victory theme is because there are a couple new ones I don't like. As much as I like Id -Purpose-, as a victory theme for Chrom, Robin and Lucina, it doesn't work, especially using that part of the song. It just ends so abruptly and feels very "added on without adjustment" or not in order. Same with Byleth's victory theme, with the way it does the intro to the song it's based on before dropping a couple ending beats that just feel unordered.
For Corrin's theme, I think that one works great because the part of the song and remix it's based on does that sort of beat/song-stop similar to the victory theme before starting up again and the tuning of the ending does not stray off far.

But anyway, I don't particularly want for everybody to have their own victory theme because there's always the chance it's nowhere near as good or consistent as the previous main victory theme and if the main victory theme for the series is great, than I certainly don't mind giving that to every character of that series.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

For some, I'd certainly like them to remix some themes to update them from the Brawl version, but I wouldn't give every character a new victory theme. For a couple, sure. I'd like Donkey Kong himself to have a more heroic take on the Bonus finish theme similar to Smash 64 and Melee. And the intro to Wolf's theme, especially based on the Star Fox Assault version, would work great for Wolf.
But part of the reason I don't want to give every character their own victory theme is because there are a couple new ones I don't like. As much as I like Id -Purpose-, as a victory theme for Chrom, Robin and Lucina, it doesn't work, especially using that part of the song. It just ends so abruptly and feels very "added on without adjustment" or not in order. Same with Byleth's victory theme, with the way it does the intro to the song it's based on before dropping a couple ending beats that just feel unordered.
For Corrin's theme, I think that one works great because the part of the song and remix it's based on does that sort of beat/song-stop similar to the victory theme before starting up again and the tuning of the ending does not stray off far.

But anyway, I don't particularly want for everybody to have their own victory theme because there's always the chance it's nowhere near as good or consistent as the previous main victory theme and if the main victory theme for the series is great, than I certainly don't mind giving that to every character of that series.

Genuinely, I didn't even realize I put character in that message until a couple of people replied to it lmao

I meant every series, but somehow I got my wires crossed when I typed it lol

 

[Quillion]

Genuinely, I didn't even realize I put character in that message until a couple of people replied to it lmao

I meant every series, but somehow I got my wires crossed when I typed it lol

I think a middle ground approach would be fine.

Like Zelda, Ganondorf, and Wolf should have their own victory themes derived from their actual character themes. They can even do the same for Dedede or give Meta Knight one based on "My Friend and the Sunset".

But for characters who have either no or no consistent character theme, a series-wide approach would work for them.

Yeah, it's unfair. I don't care. I even think Custom Moves should also come back in an "unfair" fashion too so that only the characters that have the source material to make it work have it.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

I never understood the distain for Smash Menus. They are simple, sleek, stylized and stand out well with it with Color. I would say the weakest on for Brawl where it's too washed out but other than that, they usually good for me especially Smash 4 and Ultimate.

Not sure if a reboot is the most likely outcome, but dang if it's not my most wanted thing to happen to this series...

Smash has gotten kind of stale. Not bad, but very predictable and, dare I say it... boring. I'm sick of all these unchanged veterans and all of these returning stages. Give me tangible, new content that pushes the series forward instead of maintaining the status quo.

I don't think it'll happen to such an extreme degree, but I am really, REALLY hoping for a hard reset. Throw everything out, start from absolute zero. Give us new movesets for the dozens of veterans in dire need of an overhaul and completely new stages that showcase a wealth of different themes, games, and ideas. Give us new mechanics; true assists, meter canceling, new specials, aerial smashes, literally ANYTHING, I do not care. Give us new modes and ways to play the game, as well as a good amount of single-player content. I do not care if the roster ends up being 25 characters, I'm that serious.

Be careful for what you wish for. 25 characters for $70 atp is highway robbery. I understand wanting new content for the series. I definitely don't want Ultimate Deluxe either myself but this hard reset is honestly too much.

So many series had this mentality and have become worse because of it. You can still have new content add without scrapping everything that came before.

Also what's wrong with returning veterans and stages? This is series meant to celebrate history

 

[UserKev]

So many series had this mentality and have become worse because of it. You can still have new content add without scrapping everything that came before.

Also what's wrong with returning veterans and stages? This is series meant to celebrate history

No it isn't. It's a Smash game. Smash as a series is not responsible to be somebody's celebration history. And I'm seriously starting to loathe this take. Unless you mean regarding Nintendo? Then I heartedly agree.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Alear's chances hinge on when the next Smash game releases/starts development, but honestly I think they might end up missing the mark. FE consistently releases every two, maybe three years, with the Three Houses/Engage gap only happening because COVID screwed up all the release schedules. Usually Smash releases about two years into a console's lifespan, and we're probably getting a new console in the next couple years; This indicates Smash 6 should be releasing around 2026-ish. In that time we'll likely be seeing a new Fire Emblem game, and Alear's relevancy will have dropped off by then.

That is a very epic win for the Shez Society (we’re never getting our character in)

 

[Diddy Kong]

Delzethin released a Remake It on Echo Fighters

Not taking the guy seriously since he proposed Diddy to be cut for his reboot roster. I don't need such negativity in my life.

 

[RileyXY1]

Not taking the guy seriously since he proposed Diddy to be cut for his reboot roster. I don't need such negativity in my life.

And cutting Meta Knight to bring in Bandanna Dee in his place, which is a very NASB-styled decision.

 

[DarthEnderX]

They are simple, sleek, stylized and stand out well with it with Color.

Sleek is not a word I would use to describe them. They look like somebody spilled a random pile of Legos, and then wrote categories on them.

Colorful? Sure. Stylized? I guess. Sleek? No.

25 characters for $70 atp is highway robbery.

Is it? Street Fighter 6 only launched with 18 characters and people were happy with that.

So many series had this mentality and have become worse because of it. You can still have new content add without scrapping everything that came before.

I don't understand it either. So many fighting games try and do the "new generation" thing, where they scrap a bunch of favorites for...a bunch of kids and apprentices that play mostly the same, but people don't like them nearly as much.

Street Fighter 3 did this and bombed. SoulCalibur 5 did this and bombed.

Mortal Kombat X's attempt was a lot better received, because while they introduced a new generation, they kept the old generation around.

 

[Kirbeh]

Not taking the guy seriously since he proposed Diddy to be cut for his reboot roster. I don't need such negativity in my life.

I don't like his reboot video either, but this seems kinda petty? He had an opinion/idea you don't like so that invalidates anything he says or does from then on? How does a hypothetical fan roster for something even bring you negativity? If it were an actual mean spirited video where he attacked fans of certain characters or treated them dismissively I could understand but that's not the case.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I never understood the distain for Smash Menus. They are simple, sleek, stylized and stand out well with it with Color. I would say the weakest on for Brawl where it's too washed out but other than that, they usually good for me especially Smash 4 and Ultimate.



Be careful for what you wish for. 25 characters for $70 atp is highway robbery. I understand wanting new content for the series. I definitely don't want Ultimate Deluxe either myself but this hard reset is honestly too much.

So many series had this mentality and have become worse because of it. You can still have new content add without scrapping everything that came before.

Also what's wrong with returning veterans and stages? This is series meant to celebrate history

Returning stages get in the way of making new stages, which I'd much rather have. I like a lot of old stages but it's time to just let them go, I want new visuals and experiences from new games

And yeah 25 was a bit much, but my point stands if there's enough content elsewhere to substantiate it. Smash games are more than their roster.

Not taking the guy seriously since he proposed Diddy to be cut for his reboot roster. I don't need such negativity in my life.

And cutting Meta Knight to bring in Bandanna Dee in his place, which is a very NASB-styled decision.

Honestly this mentality is exactly why if they do a reboot they should be merciless with that axe, cut everything down and revamp almost all movesets to drive home the point that this is not a traditional Smash Bros, but rather a new step in an entirely new era. People are so stuck in the mentality that specific sets of characters must be complete before anyone else gets in (e.g. Kirby/Dedede/MK before Bandana Dee, or DK & Diddy before K. Rool) , which is really limiting for bringing in new characters and experiences (not to mention flat-out wrong).

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Cutting out Meta knight for a Waddle dee really is the stupidest idea ive ever heard lol

 

[UserKev]

The menu needs a complete make over. I'm thinking a pinwheel could creatively be the new Smash Modes display.

The character select should have a randomized different colored background. Idle characters via select need a comeback.

 

[Ivander]

The "Characters don't matter if the content is fun and good" mentality does not work for a game like Smash Bros. For Smash Bros., the characters are the biggest driver for the games. Look at Smash Bros. Brawl. The game often gets panned for it's gameplay elements, like how slow the frame data is and its random elements like tripping and whatnot, but that didn't stop Brawl from being very popular. When your game's biggest selling point is the characters themselves, not even good gameplay or even the most fun gameplay will overcome the stigma that comes from many fan favorite characters being taken out from the last game, like Marvel vs Capcom Infinite.
Most of the biggest players can confirm that Marvel vs Capcom Infinite gameplay-wise was quite good, but that didn't stop people from not wanting it because of poor marketing and characters like the X-Men and Doctor Doom being taken out, despite still having some big heavy hitters from both the Marvel and Capcom sides. That's not even counting the games or series where the characters aren't too much of a focus, but still suffered from having many of their previous characters not in the game, like Street Fighter 3 or Soulcalibur 5, both which are often agreed to have good gameplay.

This isn't the fault of the players for having that mentality in regards to the characters with Smash Bros. This was heavily imposed by Nintendo themselves. They themselves hyped the **** out of the characters and people flocked to them like a moth to a light. People would watch Nintendo Directs and Sakurai Presents just to see who the next character would be and Nintendo would get huge amounts of free press because of word of mouth. The one Game Awards that went crazy with giving awards to The Last of Us 2 practically got panned aside from the Sephiroth reveal trailer, which many were like, "All you needed to do was watch the Sephiroth trailer and then stop watching there."
This mentality was not simply a mentality that gamers ingrained into their brains, this was supported and enforced by Nintendo, because of the amount of huge press and word of mouth whenever a character was revealed. It's why the "gameplay over characters" deal cannot work with Smash Bros and why you can't just do a reboot and expect it to be treated like, "Smash Bros. will sell hotcakes regardless of characters, especially if it has great gameplay and features."
When talk regarding the next Smash Bros comes up, the first thing that people consistently worry about and bring up is "which characters may not return?", something that many of the biggest fighting and Smash Bros. fans talk about alongside the possibility of Sakurai not returning. It's a very self-aware concern brought up with caution, because no one knows if the next path that Smash Bros. takes will lead to be overall for the better or overall for the worse.

 

[Gorgonzales]

The "Characters don't matter if the content is fun and good" mentality does not work for a game like Smash Bros. For Smash Bros., the characters are the biggest driver for the games. Look at Smash Bros. Brawl. The game often gets panned for it's gameplay elements, like how slow the frame data is and its random elements like tripping and whatnot, but that didn't stop Brawl from being very popular. When your game's biggest selling point is the characters themselves, not even good gameplay or even the most fun gameplay will overcome the stigma that comes from many fan favorite characters being taken out from the last game, like Marvel vs Capcom Infinite.
Most of the biggest players can confirm that Marvel vs Capcom Infinite gameplay-wise was quite good, but that didn't stop people from not wanting it because of poor marketing and characters like the X-Men and Doctor Doom being taken out, despite still having some big heavy hitters from both the Marvel and Capcom sides. That's not even counting the games or series where the characters aren't too much of a focus, but still suffered from having many of their previous characters not in the game, like Street Fighter 3 or Soulcalibur 5, both which are often agreed to have good gameplay.

This isn't the fault of the players for having that mentality in regards to the characters with Smash Bros. This was heavily imposed by Nintendo themselves. They themselves hyped the **** out of the characters and people flocked to them like a moth to a light. People would watch Nintendo Directs and Sakurai Presents just to see who the next character would be and Nintendo would get huge amounts of free press because of word of mouth. The one Game Awards that went crazy with giving awards to The Last of Us 2 practically got panned aside from the Sephiroth reveal trailer, which many were like, "All you needed to do was watch the Sephiroth trailer and then stop watching there."
This mentality was not simply a mentality that gamers ingrained into their brains, this was supported and enforced by Nintendo, because of the amount of huge press and word of mouth whenever a character was revealed. It's why the "gameplay over characters" deal cannot work with Smash Bros and why you can't just do a reboot and expect it to be treated like, "Smash Bros. will sell hotcakes regardless of characters, especially if it has great gameplay and features."
When talk regarding the next Smash Bros comes up, the first thing that people consistently worry about and bring up is "which characters may not return?", something that many of the biggest fighting and Smash Bros. fans talk about alongside the possibility of Sakurai not returning. It's a very self-aware concern brought up with caution, because no one knows if the next path that Smash Bros. takes will lead to be overall for the better or overall for the worse.

That is honestly completely fair. While I myself wish for a smaller roster, I can fully imagine the kind of online bloodbath ensuing the announcement of such a drastic change. To a lot of people, the characters are what Smash is, which again is understandable given how Nintendo puts a lot of emphasis on fighter reveals.

A middle ground that I've seen proposed and I think could work is if the next Smash adopted a live service model (and not the gross predatory kind like battle passes and whatnot). They can confirm a slew of revamped veterans to be returning down the line, and as such this Smash game can serve as a continual "base" Smash for a very long time, possibly even between consoles. Such an idea is proposed in this video by the Duke of Dorks.

 

[SPEN18]

Yeah losing Diddy or MK in a ~50-character roster is simply unviable. I have not really watched any of Delzethin's content, so I haven't heard his attempted justification, but the only motivation I can fathom right now for such choices is an over-valuation of surface-level notions of "uniqueness" which would cast Diddy and MK as a generic monkey and superfluous swordfighter. Either that or a serious gap in understanding of Nintendo's landscape in the three decades that these two have been continuously relevant characters.

 

[RodNutTakin]

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What Ivander laid out is something I 100% agree on. Smash is very much a character-driven game, unlike most gameplay-driven fighting games, and Nintendo understandably has done little to pivot that image otherwise. With games like Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat, most average players only need the series mainstays returning, and in general characters are easier to remove, because if someone is unpopular in those series, they don't have much else to stand on. In Smash, practically anyone who gets in already has some popularity by default because they originate from some other game that is popular or liked at least in 98% of cases. It's harder to pick characters off because by the nature of Smash, every character has some fans that like them, and this is actually the mentality that Sakurai himself has cited when it comes to him being reluctant to cuts.

It's already a bit tough for some people to handle cutting 10-12 characters next game to make way for new ones (this is the number I'm predicting will be gone in the worst case scenario when SSB6 is absolutely finished), and increasing that cut number is only going to make a new game an even harder sell, IMO. I've seen people bring up in comparison how the Dex cut for Pokemon didn't impact its sales, but I feel this is a disingenous comparison--unlike Smash, Pokemon is (for better or for worse) simply too big to fail. Even if the devteam keeps doing things to upset the fanbase, the series pretty much is doomed to fall upwards regardless simply because of how ingrained the franchise is into daily culture. Smash is a bit big itself, yes, but even with the scope of Ultimate, it still hasn't reached anywhere near the status Pokemon has culturally, and I would not place the series in the "too big to fail" category just yet.
Pretty much in a nutshell, Smash as we know it lives and dies by the characters and series included, and Nintendo is very likely aware of how much of the series's marketing power lies in the vast variety of characters and franchises big and small that players can experience through the game, and I imagine they wouldn't want to gamble on a "New Generation" type deal like other traditional fighting games have.

HOWEVER, and I have likely mentioned it a few times in this thread already, I think there is another way to give those who want a drastically different Smash experience what they want without comprimising the series for the rest of the playerbase. I think the best course of action would be to let another development team work on more experimental side entries for the Smash series, while Sora and Bamco (likely either its Studio 2 or Studio S subdivisions) continue to work on traditional sequels that focus on retaining a scope similar to Ultimate's. I could see the experimental devteam either be HAL Labs (like old times) or even whichever of the Nintendo-focused Namco subdivisions isn't the one that works on traditional installments (likely Studio 2, I wouldn't be surprised if Studio S is literally short for "Studio Smash" internally).
I feel that letting other devteams experiment with (and if successful, potentially expand on) different Smash formulas while Sakurai and his crew continue with traditional Smash sequels would be the direction that would satisfy the most amount of people here.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I've never really understood the point of a reboot, with characters being the main selling point and draw of Smash Bros., Sakurai stating before that he doesn't really like cutting characters unless he has to because of fans of those characters, and not changing movesets very drastically most of the time. A reboot in the traditional sense would just be cutting the roster down for basically no gain, as the majority of characters would still be essentially the same, at least imo. Not to mention, Smash doesn't have any sort of story that would stand to gain from a reboot like Mortal Kombat has done before.

With that being said, I do think an approach like Gorgonzales posted would actually be a really interesting approach, like confirming some veterans will be coming back but with revamps to their kit pre-launch so nobody has to wonder where they are or why they got cut and making the character feel more fresh as a result.

The only real issue I would have at that point would be the price point, depending on the level of revamp we're talking here, and for how many veterans. Because don't forget, Mewtwo, Lucas, and Roy each cost like 4 dollars in Smash 4 if I remember correctly.

 

[Noipoi]

I don't need a full-on reboot, but I would like for older characters to get a little retooled now that the focus isn't on bringing absolutely everyone back.

 

[CannonStreak]

I've never really understood the point of a reboot, with characters being the main selling point and draw of Smash Bros., Sakurai stating before that he doesn't really like cutting characters unless he has to because of fans of those characters, and not changing movesets very drastically most of the time. A reboot in the traditional sense would just be cutting the roster down for basically no gain, as the majority of characters would still be essentially the same, at least imo. Not to mention, Smash doesn't have any sort of story that would stand to gain from a reboot like Mortal Kombat has done before.

With that being said, I do think an approach like Gorgonzales posted would actually be a really interesting approach, like confirming some veterans will be coming back but with revamps to their kit pre-launch so nobody has to wonder where they are or why they got cut and making the character feel more fresh as a result.

The only real issue I would have at that point would be the price point, depending on the level of revamp we're talking here, and for how many veterans. Because don't forget, Mewtwo, Lucas, and Roy each cost like 4 dollars in Smash 4 if I remember correctly.

Agreed, PoppyBro. I think a reboot would do more harm than good for the series, and it is something the fans want, not what the series needs. Plus, it would be backtracking in the sense of just going backward, when the series is doing fine in this point of time, and a reboot would rather ruin the momentum the series has, even if "Everyone is here" does not happen again. I believe the series can continue without doing that again. Plus, having many characters not return would be a huge left down with a reboot possibly happening, and with that, it seems a reboot would be "self-centered", considering that people who want it do not seem to think about others or the state of the series itself. Even if there seems to be some stagnancy, I don't think Smash Bros. needs much change in it, let alone something like a reboot.

 

[Kirbeh]

I think the other problem is that people conflate reboot with Thanos snap the roster and then somehow, those that don't make base game are suddenly barred from ever returning.

If you look outside of Smash for 5 minutes you can see decent examples of how it could be done.

To use KOFXV as an example, it had a perfectly healthy, and still large roster as you'd expect of a KoF game. Then you have the season passes bringing back a bunch of veterans and even a few characters released for free like Rugal and Goenitz.

Let's say the next game does cut like 20ish characters. I could see a few like Young Link and Pichu not making the cut at all, but if most get rolled out over time post launch, I don't see the problem.

Plus I imagine a lot of those would likely be the third parties anyway since they stand to gain more by being DLC. Ultimate was great in regards to retaining them because EiH was the goal, but I think it's warped the Smash community's perception of how guests are handled.

Also the term reboot getting thrown around isn't even what a lot of people discussing changes even want. Some retooling and additions to mechanics don't necessarily mean it's a reboot.

 

[CannonStreak]

I think the other problem is that people conflate reboot with Thanos snap the roster and then somehow, those that don't make base game are suddenly barred from ever returning.

If you look outside of Smash for 5 minutes you can see decent examples of how it could be done.

To use KOFXV as an example, it had a perfectly healthy, and still large roster as you'd expect of a KoF game. Then you have the season passes bringing back a bunch of veterans and even a few characters released for free like Rugal and Goenitz.

Let's say the next game does cut like 20ish characters. I could see a few like Young Link and Pichu not making the cut at all, but if most get rolled out over time post launch, I don't see the problem.

Plus I imagine a lot of those would likely be the third parties anyway since they stand to gain more by being DLC. Ultimate was great in regards to retaining them because EiH was the goal, but I think it's warped the Smash community's perception of how guests are handled.

Also the term reboot getting thrown around isn't even what a lot of people discussing changes even want. Some retooling and additions to mechanics don't necessarily mean it's a reboot.

I don't think I was talking about that, as in talking about what a reboot is and that "retooling and additions to mechanics", that kind of stuff. Nor did I necessarily say that characters would be barred from ever returning in a reboot. The question I am curious to know, is who was?

I mean, obviously, a reboot can be different from retooling and all. Still, what is your stance on rebooting Smash Bros. overall?

 

[Nabbitfan730]

No it isn't. It's a Smash game. Smash as a series is not responsible to be somebody's celebration history. And I'm seriously starting to loathe this take. Unless you mean regarding Nintendo? Then I heartedly agree.

Well yeah, what did you think i was going to say. Nintendo dominated this series' identity for a reason

Returning stages get in the way of making new stages, which I'd much rather have. I like a lot of old stages but it's time to just let them go, I want new visuals and experiences from new games.

You do realize that both positions aren't mutually exclusive right? Other than Ultimate to lesser extent, each entry has done exactly without needlessly gutting the old

Honestly this mentality is exactly why if they do a reboot they should be merciless with that axe, cut everything down and revamp almost all movesets to drive home the point that this is not a traditional Smash Bros, but rather a new step in an entirely new era. People are so stuck in the mentality that specific sets of characters must be complete before anyone else gets in (e.g. Kirby/Dedede/MK before Bandana Dee, or DK & Diddy before K. Rool) , which is really limiting for bringing in new characters and experiences (not to mention flat-out wrong).

If Nintendo/Sakurai were that stupid in do so, then I hope this so-called reboot flops like never before. It probably will with those decisions. There is reason why the series does mainstays. Like the others said, Characters along with the gameplay is the lifeblood of this series and Legacy for Nintendo History and it's series own history is how what kept it going.

Cutting them with no rhyme or reason just for the sake of new just means the stripping this series' identity outright for Recency bias

"People are so stuck in the mentality that specific sets of characters must be complete" For a series meant to be celebrate Nintendo and apparently gaming history, yeah that has to be case, otherwise what is the point?

Even with those examples chosen: How is wrong that the main characters: Kirby/DK of the Kirby/DK series named after them gets in before their side characters?

 

[cashregister9]

I can't really bring anything to the conversation that hasn't already been said several hundred times (from the several hundred times this discussion has happened)

but one thought that I have been thinking about is Smash Ultimate being treated like Tekken Tag Tournament. A special event series that doesn't happen often and is a celebration of the series. And then the next smash game is more of a traditional sequel to 4.

 

[fogbadge]

We could always try rebooting the fandom instead

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I think the other problem is that people conflate reboot with Thanos snap the roster and then somehow, those that don't make base game are suddenly barred from ever returning.

If you look outside of Smash for 5 minutes you can see decent examples of how it could be done.

To use KOFXV as an example, it had a perfectly healthy, and still large roster as you'd expect of a KoF game. Then you have the season passes bringing back a bunch of veterans and even a few characters released for free like Rugal and Goenitz.

Let's say the next game does cut like 20ish characters. I could see a few like Young Link and Pichu not making the cut at all, but if most get rolled out over time post launch, I don't see the problem.

Plus I imagine a lot of those would likely be the third parties anyway since they stand to gain more by being DLC. Ultimate was great in regards to retaining them because EiH was the goal, but I think it's warped the Smash community's perception of how guests are handled.

Also the term reboot getting thrown around isn't even what a lot of people discussing changes even want. Some retooling and additions to mechanics don't necessarily mean it's a reboot.

My personal pet peeve is that people dont seem to know what the word "reboot" means in context of media.

It means completely starting from scratch with no connection to what came before beyond names.

 

[fogbadge]

My personal pet peeve is that people dont seem to know what the word "reboot" means in context of media.

It means completely starting from scratch with no connection to what came before beyond names.

actually it’s a very poorly defined term and some argue it’s the same as a remake

 

[SPEN18]

Yeah a huge issue is misuse of the term "reboot."
A roster that is Smash-4-size or bigger and that keeps the core cast essentially intact would not be a reboot, and would not be treated as such by Nintendo or Sakurai. They may try to look more closely at things like the core mechanics, singleplayer, and preexisting movesets whose improvements and new features could help take the focus away from the cuts and smaller roster, but I expect the nature of the changes in those areas to be firmly in the spirit of a traditionally-defined sequel.
I see a lot of slippery slope fallacy with people thinking that cutting Young Link means Diddy Kong is suddenly in danger or something, and that's just not accurate at all. I get that so openly discussing the matter of certain characters being more important than others is outside the comfort zone for a lot of fans, though at least the concept of, say, Mario being a more essential addition than Falco is something that even extremely casual fans have an intuitive sense of, or at least could come to grips with after becoming just a little more informed.