Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Louie G.]

Or are you just satisfied with this?

View attachment 398658

I kinda prefer this angle because the OG spritework is what everyone knows. This design keeps it pretty consistent with the way the average person remembers Excitebiker to look. More detailed takes on the character could be fun like we got with Pit, but I think Excitebiker is the kind of series that rests more heavily on its simple retro appeal over any compulsion to modernize it like the philosophy behind Pit was.

We can probably look at Ice Climbers and Duck Hunt for a good idea of what to expect too. The old school characters tend to be simple with big round features.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

His workload is comparable to Dr. Mario...and Dr. Mario doesn't have perfect attendance.

I meeeean, to be fair, the only game Doc has missed out on was Brawl, and we know he was probably planned at one time since he's part of the Forbidden Seven, so like...

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

C. Viper also made it into MVC3 I guess, but other than that...yeah.

And even THAT can be attributed to that game's roster being finalized before Juri was fully realized in SSF4, because before Juri, Viper was the seemingly breakout hit of SF4's newcomer cast.

EDIT: Also Mr. Icy Hot is a newcomer in V.

Icy Hot? Do you mean Gill? Because he was playable in some versions of SF3.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Icy Hot? Do you mean Gill? Because he was playable in some versions of SF3.

Now I'm picturing Shaq as a Street Fighter character using moves from the Shaq Fu games.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Now I'm picturing Shaq as a Street Fighter character using moves from the Shaq Fu games.

SF6 dipped its toes in crossovers with Terry and Mai.

It's not impossible

 

[dezeray112]

Street Fighter 3 introduced Alex, Shean, Ibuki, Necro, Urien, Yun, Remy, Q, Makoto, Twelve, Yang, Hugo, Elena, Dudley, and Oro. Of those, only Ibuki really seems to have become a staple. Yun, Yang, Elena, and Dudley also appeared in 4, while Alex, Urien, and Oro appeared in 5.

Don't forget that Elena is also set to appear in Street Fighter 6 too.

 

[Louie G.]

Why on earth would Ken get cut if we're keeping Ryu?

I think I spoke on this not too long ago, but I really don't think all the echo fighters are the surefire returns people think they are. Especially someone like Ken whose differences are far more fleshed out beyond "glorified skin" tier where someone like Richter or Daisy lies. I think the mass treatment of echo fighter as just like, snap a finger and they're in is pretty naive.

They're probably as susceptible to lower priority / cuts as some of the simpler workload characters from previous series entries. Sure, Roy and Dr. Mario almost made it into Brawl. But almost only counts for so much, right? The fact that they were cut in the first place should clue us in that even the derivative characters have enough meat to them where cutting them is seen as a productive response to time constraints at all.

 

[BuckleyTim]

I like merry and tai in sf6, but man if we get any more we're really gonna start feeling how much dlc space they'll be taking up each year, especially when other sf2 Mainstays come in on top of that.

C'mon Capcom, remember that some of the weirdos in the back catalogue exist...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think in terms of Street Fighter character priority it's probably going to be something like:
S
Akuma and Chun-Li. Akuma's this high because he's a fairly easy clone.

A
Juri and M. Bison. Potentially Luke as well but he'd probably have to slide in now in order to get in at all.

B
Guile, Sakura, Segat, and other similarly popular characters.

Whenever Sakurai is Feeling Spicy
Dan. I think he's one of those perfect surprise pick kind of characters, and he's a clone to boot, though not as easy as Ken or Akuma.

 

[NotGenerico]

Something I'd like to mention regarding Square Enix is that Sakurai has outright said they aren't stingy. I understand enough Japanese to know that the translation that was used on the English version during this part of the Sephiroth presentation isn't entirely accurate. Here's the transcript of what he's saying in Japanese:

今までFF曲というのは2曲だけだったんですね、これをして、スクエニさんはケチだと言うような話をする人もいるかと思うんですが、それは違うんですよ。と、大きな声で言わせて頂きます。

The translation would be something like this:

Up until now, there have only been two FF songs, and some people may say that Square Enix is being stingy because of this, but that's not true. I want to say this loud and clear.

A little ironic that the part where Sakurai says he wants to make it clear that Square Enix aren't stingy wasn't properly translated, but oh well. He goes on to explain that the reason Final Fantasy only had two songs is because FF songs have multiple copyright holders and that's why getting them in Smash was complicated. This was properly translated.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Dan. I think he's one of those perfect surprise pick kind of characters, and he's a clone to boot, though not as easy as Ken or Akuma.

If they add Dan, he MUST be able to cancel moves into taunts which can then cancel into specials.

That is the funniest thing they did to him and it should be preserved

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

A little ironic that the part where Sakurai says he wants to make it clear that Square Enix aren't stingy wasn't properly translated, but oh well. He goes on to explain that the reason Final Fantasy only had two songs is because FF songs have multiple copyright holders and that's why getting them in Smash was complicated. This was properly translated.

This I believe is true of most things Final Fantasy, and why the logo is FF rather than the meteor or something.

...Might even be why they're treated as being from Final Fantasy VII specifically instead of the series as a whole.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Solution: Nintendo/Capcom merger!

Then my entire Capcom vs. Capcom roster becomes 1st Party!

Why did you pick the ugliest Ryu and Nina designs

 

[Wunderwaft]

Well I suppose if they do cut Ken for some reason, they could add him back as an Assist Trophy...
View attachment 398652

I just want you to know you delivered at least three psychic attacks to my mind with this image. I haven't seen this flowchart in like 15 years and seeing it again felt like unscrambling a secret script I hid away deep in my brain unknowingly.

 

[PeridotGX]

Is there any series that is the least likely to get a second rep in Smash?

The obvious answer is, like, Duck Hunt or something. But when it comes to series where another character wouldn't be completely ridiculous, I would have to give it to Star Fox. The series hasn't been relevant for almost a decade, it already has a decent amount of characters (one of which has been cut before), and requests for Krystal have basically died out. The thing that puts it above other series like this is that there aren't even great options for echoes. Mother has Ninten or Giygas, F-Zero has Blood Falcon or Black Shadow, Bayonetta has the extremely obvious Jeanne, but Star Fox... Slippy and Peppy are probably too distinct proportionally to be easy echoes, while James McCloud is too similar to the point of being boring.

 

[Louie G.]

Is there any series that is the least likely to get a second rep in Smash?

I'll play along and ignoring those that really don't have another viable choice, my answer is ARMS.

Min-Min's playstyle is specialized to a point where adding a second ARMS character feels like it may be retreading some ground - what to do they provide to the roster that Min-Min doesn't? She's already such an involved character where adding someone more gimmicky (Twintelle, Dr. Coyle...) feels like it would be further overstuffing the design with superfluous mechanics. And the nature of ARMS to be a game focused on fighting from a distance kind of locks anyone from the series into a zoner archetype. I think anything they could seriously want to do with the game is already covered.

And with the series in a state of limbo right now, it's hard to wholeheartedly endorse any new character. The other viable answer to this question is Punch-Out, but I can think of a lot of ways another boxer can be added and add something unique to the game that Little Mac doesn't... a boxer is a pretty flexible archetype, so adding a big slow guy would create a committal character directly opposite to Mac's strategy of hit and run. And that series has a stronger legacy to rest on, unlike ARMS which is still kind of finding its way. If you wanted to add King Hippo or Mr. Sandman, it would be random but at least those are really iconic old school gaming bosses. As much as I'd like to see Helix or Max Brass, it's a hard sell.

 

[BrawlX10]

Now that Mai has an official outfit for good girls and boys, I wonder if they'll add her to the KoF stage.

I'd like if Mai was an assist trophy tbh rather than background NPC. Will they use a oufit for Mai that debuted in another series she was a guest in? It doesn't strike me as something Sakurai would do, but hey, you never know.

I'm ngl, you kinda shot your argument in the foot by saying "...except Sonic". Like, Street Fighter has an echo fighter already and Chun-Li is at least as popular as any given Sonic character. What makes Sonic the exception? If anything, citing this steadier progression off one unique character and one echo fighter toward a new face in Chun-Li or Alucard makes way more sense.

Not to hound on you for it, because it's rampant in the entire community, but Sonic being put aside as this series capable of extra special treatment is completely made up through community biases. Sephiroth got in before a second Sonic character, Richter and Ken got in before Shadow. If there's a chance Sonic can work up to three characters then there is just as strong a chance that Street Fighter, Castlevania or Final Fantasy could too.

I don't think any series has actually a limit in how many newcomers it can have, they'll add Chun-li if they want too, Ken begin there or not is irrelevant for her inclusion, imo.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'd like if Mai was an assist trophy tbh rather than background NPC. Will they use a oufit for Mai that debuted in another series she was a guest in? It doesn't strike me as something Sakurai would do, but hey, you never know.

Does she count as a guest if it's a crossover series?

 

[BritishGuy54]

The only echo fighter I’m confident will return is .

Her being a glorified skin might be blessing rather than a curse here, considering her role in Wonder, Smash at least having an extra Mario Princess in the chance does get cut, or just being a popular addition.

There really is not much going against Daisy coming back.

Speaking of echo fighters, and clones in general, they just don’t get a lot of worthwhile attention from people. So many just dismiss them as lazy choices, and it’s been like this since Melee. I get people want unique choices, but echo fighters do allow a few curveballs and unexpected choices.

In terms of a new game, Octoling should be the most likely new echo fighter. There’s no way Octoling isn’t there.

But on the off chance they’re an alt instead? Who do we go for? Personally, I’d advocate for a Xenoblade echo fighter (or as I’ll dub them now, ‘Xeno-Clones’), and Pikmin isn’t a bad shout either with it being stuck on since Brawl.

But yeah. Echo Fighters deserve to be recognised more as bonuses, and with more thought on who actually works as an echo, rather than slapping anyone there, or just not caring.

 

[NotGenerico]

The only echo fighter I’m confident will return is .

Her being a glorified skin might be blessing rather than a curse here, considering her role in Wonder, Smash at least having an extra Mario Princess in the chance does get cut, or just being a popular addition.

There really is not much going against Daisy coming back.

Speaking of echo fighters, and clones in general, they just don’t get a lot of worthwhile attention from people. So many just dismiss them as lazy choices, and it’s been like this since Melee. I get people want unique choices, but echo fighters do allow a few curveballs and unexpected choices.

In terms of a new game, Octoling should be the most likely new echo fighter. There’s no way Octoling isn’t there.

But on the off chance they’re an alt instead? Who do we go for? Personally, I’d advocate for a Xenoblade echo fighter (or as I’ll dub them now, ‘Xeno-Clones’), and Pikmin isn’t a bad shout either with it being stuck on since Brawl.

But yeah. Echo Fighters deserve to be recognised more as bonuses, and with more thought on who actually works as an echo, rather than slapping anyone there, or just not caring.

I'd personally like Zack as an Echo Fighter if Cloud comes back.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Something I'd like to mention regarding Square Enix is that Sakurai has outright said they aren't stingy. I understand enough Japanese to know that the translation that was used on the English version during this part of the Sephiroth presentation isn't entirely accurate. Here's the transcript of what he's saying in Japanese:

The translation would be something like this:

A little ironic that the part where Sakurai says he wants to make it clear that Square Enix aren't stingy wasn't properly translated, but oh well. He goes on to explain that the reason Final Fantasy only had two songs is because FF songs have multiple copyright holders and that's why getting them in Smash was complicated. This was properly translated.

I think Cloud and Sephiroth not speaking English could also be for complicated reasons. Apparently because of contracts since they have to be credited.

Sora being owned by Disney and being from a different series is why there wasn’t the same issues.

I'd personally like Zack as an Echo Fighter if Cloud comes back.

I feel like the differences outside of specials could be that his Limit Break system works a bit differently from Cloud.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Also interesting to note on the Square thing that Sakurai mentions Smash explicitly being given a little leverage when it came to a closely handled series like Dragon Quest in Hero's presentation.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Also interesting to note on the Square thing that Sakurai mentions Smash explicitly being given a little leverage when it came to a closely handled series like Dragon Quest in Hero's presentation.

It's something we've been able to figure out, given that Sakurai actually managed to get playable Heroes which is heavily significant since even DQ's own spinoffs couldn't get a playable Erdrick or Luminary before Smash.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

It's something we've been able to figure out, given that Sakurai actually managed to get playable Heroes which is heavily significant since even DQ's own spinoffs couldn't get a playable Erdrick or Luminary before Smash.

The only obstacle that happened was music since Square Enix doesn’t own it and the quality problems isn’t exclusive to Smash since that’s also the case with the original DQ11 and apparently 3DS DQ8.

At least the reveal trailer had orchestrated music.

 

[Gengar84]

Do you think the inclusion of Advent Children music opens the door to other songs from outside media? Like, could we get songs from the Pokémon anime? If we somehow get a Mortal Kombat character, could we get Techno Syndrome?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Do you think the inclusion of Advent Children music opens the door to other songs from outside media? Like, could we get songs from the Pokémon anime? If we somehow get a Mortal Kombat character, could we get Techno Syndrome?

The thing is that in the case of Advent Children music, it's really not that much more of a legal hassle compared to Square's usual fare because while it's movie songs, it's still composed and performed by the same people.

Stuff like Techno Syndrome requires speaking to the very musicians who composed it, who are part of a band of their own separate from Mortal Kombat.

It's not impossible, but it would require more legal hurdles to cross.

 

[MagnesD3]

Solution: Nintendo/Capcom merger!

Then my entire Capcom vs. Capcom roster becomes 1st Party!

No Urien, gotta pass. Aegis Reflector or Bust.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Do you think the inclusion of Advent Children music opens the door to other songs from outside media? Like, could we get songs from the Pokémon anime? If we somehow get a Mortal Kombat character, could we get Techno Syndrome?

Not even sure if the earlier Pokemon anime music is owned by TPC such as original English opening theme.

 

[fogbadge]

Do you think the inclusion of Advent Children music opens the door to other songs from outside media? Like, could we get songs from the Pokémon anime? If we somehow get a Mortal Kombat character, could we get Techno Syndrome?

well do remember all the AC songs we have were from the game in the first place. songs from the pokemon anime most likely require extra licensing which they could lose. as seen with the songs from the pikmin ads.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I kinda prefer this angle because the OG spritework is what everyone knows. This design keeps it pretty consistent with the way the average person remembers Excitebiker to look. More detailed takes on the character could be fun like we got with Pit, but I think Excitebiker is the kind of series that rests more heavily on its simple retro appeal over any compulsion to modernize it like the philosophy behind Pit was.

We can probably look at Ice Climbers and Duck Hunt for a good idea of what to expect too. The old school characters tend to be simple with big round features.

Sure, going with more simple designs make sense for retro characters. Otherwise, they wouldn't actually feel retro. I was just pointing out how Excibiker's Famicom artwork doesn't look all that different from his NES sprite. It's just that since it's an artwork, they add a little more detail to him that's not shown in a sprite. Almost like the artwork is the more definite design. Though I don't mind either way.

And there's also this:

Another simple design that I'm also sure reminds people of the NES sprite.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Do you think the inclusion of Advent Children music opens the door to other songs from outside media? Like, could we get songs from the Pokémon anime? If we somehow get a Mortal Kombat character, could we get Techno Syndrome?

Considering we haven't already seen any from the Pokémon Anime, it's pretty unlikely that we'll see any in the future. There's not much worth taking from the anime anyway; mostly just the theme songs, Lugia's Song, and Oración. Most of them would be at least a little wonky in Super Smash Bros. (especially the first theme song after Dexit).

Maybe we could see the original theme song added at some point, but I doubt it. As far as the hypotheticals go, the Japanese XYZ theme would go so hard.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Unlike with first-parties, where I at least have some idea, I don't know who I'd say the most likely third-parties are. I think it largely depends on the interest of the developers. There's already multiple strong contenders from the companies already in the roster, and then characters who aren't from those companies, but would still be able to get. A lot of the contenders have their own merits, so I'm just waiting and seeing who the developers pick.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Unlike with first-parties, where I at least have some idea, I don't know who I'd say the most likely third-parties are. I think it largely depends on the interest of the developers. There's already multiple strong contenders from the companies already in the roster, and then characters who aren't from those companies, but would still be able to get. A lot of the contenders have their own merits, so I'm just waiting and seeing who the developers pick.

PAC-MAN is probably the most likely but the high chance depends on if Namco is still developing Smash 6.