Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[ninjahmos]

Ryu Hayabusa is definitely long overdue for Smash. I've said this many times before, but if he ever gets in, I'm hoping they not only include music from the Ninja Gaiden series, especially a new remix of Unbreakable Determination, but also music from the Dead or Alive series, especially a new remix of The Shooted. (Great name, I know )

 

[BritishGuy54]

So what do you guys think will happen with the Xenoblade franchise in the next game? Both I. Regards to characters and other content.

No cuts, one of Noah and Mio joining, and an echo as a consolation prize, such as Alvis, Nia, or Pneuma. Elma gets AT’d. Z is a boss.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

On the topic of Ryu Hayabusa, how many people here have actually played Ninja Gaiden? I've been playing through the first Sigma lately, and I realized that he's always brought up as someone with good chances, but I've rarely seen anyone discuss the game's content or how he fights beyond the Izuna Drop.

Halfway through Sigma, and I've unlocked a couple varieties shurikens and arrows, a bunch of weapons, and some fancy sword techniques, most notably the Flying Swallow, a swift aerial dive towards an enemy. There's also a couple Ninpo spells; a ring of fireballs around you, a single fireball projectile, a burst of cold wind, and a bunch of electric bolts around you. There's also a fancy spinning attack that flows into an upwards slash, plus a barrage of slashes that i sometimes activate but don't know the input for. I don't know much else for what he gets in later games, but I do know there's a massive scythe in Ninja Gaiden 2 and 3.

I've never played a game in the series, but Ryu does give me the vibe of a character that Sakurai would focus on his NES appearances as the basis for his gameplay. It's a bit of a different situation than Mega Man and Simon since the former focuses on it because its his most iconic aesthetic and his gameplay hasn't changed much since then, and Simon hasn't really made that many appearances beyond the NES as far as I know. I'm also fairly certain his kit won't ignore what comes later since there's not a whole lot to build his normals out of and the action games that flesh out his cqc skills are right there, but I do think the emphasis in his special moves and overall character design will be on the NES.

In that sense I expect him to be some sort of bait and punish character (or if they give him the clones from Ninja Gaiden II, he could even be a unique spin on the trap character archetype). I'd be real excited if they give him the clones due to their unique interpretation of the idea. Essentially, they copy your movements at a delay, and attack when you do, but if you stop moving, they do too to the point where they'll freeze in midair. It would add a whole slew of possibilities for tandem/trap character B.S. and I would be there for it.

 

[Wonder Smash]

A lot of Hayabusa attacks that he does in the modern games actually came from the NES games. The different Shurikens (regular and Windmill), the Jump and Slash, and The Art of Fire Wheels are attacks he does throughout the series.

The way I see it is his Shurikens can work similar to Sheik's or Greninja's Neutral specials, as kind of like a chargeable special. In this case, it'll first work like a regular Shuriken where it'll disappear. But if you charge it long enough, it'll be a Windmill Shuriken, where it'll come back to Hayabusa.

The Jump and Slash would be an aerial attack.

His Down Special could be either The Art of Fire Wheels or some magic attacks like that.

His Up Special could be his Rising Slash attack that he does in the modern games. Think Cloud's attack, except he stabs the ground.

His Side Special could be a Fast Slash attack. I don't know the actual name of the attack but he just dashes straight through enemies with a fast attack. Similar to Fox's Illusion.

Gimmick Attack is the Izuna Drop. Complete with the Dead or Alive input.

Final Smash? That's a super easy one. Art of the True Inferno. Best one for it.

These the ideas I have for Hayabusa for years.

 

[Diddy Kong]

So what do you guys think will happen with the Xenoblade franchise in the next game? Both I. Regards to characters and other content.

All 3 current representatives stay, and we might get Noah. And I don't even think Rex is too unlikely myself. I don't see a Echo Fighter as a real sensible option. Unless it's for Noah, in Mio or even... that one other spoiler dude.

Everyone riding for Mio as if she has a similar shot, but I don't really feel that way. Noah is slightly more on the forefront. Maybe both as unique newcomers with slight move set overlay?

I could see them get 2 newcomers myself. Xenoblade 3 is the conclusion of a story. So I expect the newcomers from this game rather than the separate entity of X. Even if X is gonna be more recent with the coming March release.

So in short, Shulk and Aegis stay. 95% confident in Noah. Mio has a shot too but not before Noah. And we might get Rex even as he was considered before but scrapped for the Aegis sisters.

 

[DarthEnderX]

No cuts, one of Noah and Mio joining, and an echo as a consolation prize, such as Alvis, Nia, or Pneuma. Elma gets AT’d. Z is a boss.

If XB gets all that, it will definitely become the new FE in terms of hatred by the Smash community.

 

[RodNutTakin]

If XB gets all that, it will definitely become the new FE in terms of hatred by the Smash community.

Objectively incorrect unless they later make the XB4 protagonist DLC on top of this.

 

[Wunderwaft]

So what do you guys think will happen with the Xenoblade franchise in the next game? Both I. Regards to characters and other content.

Zero cuts, it's a franchise that I see gaining content instead of losing it. I expect we'll get Noah/Mio in as a newcomer too.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Objectively incorrect unless they later make the XB4 protagonist DLC on top of this.

A yes, because if there one thing that can be predicted objectively, it's fan backlash.

 

[Idon]

I've never played a game in the series, but Ryu does give me the vibe of a character that Sakurai would focus on his NES appearances as the basis for his gameplay. It's a bit of a different situation than Mega Man and Simon since the former focuses on it because its his most iconic aesthetic and his gameplay hasn't changed much since then, and Simon hasn't really made that many appearances beyond the NES as far as I know. I'm also fairly certain his kit won't ignore what comes later since there's not a whole lot to build his normals out of and the action games that flesh out his cqc skills are right there, but I do think the emphasis in his special moves and overall character design will be on the NES.

In that sense I expect him to be some sort of bait and punish character (or if they give him the clones from Ninja Gaiden II, he could even be a unique spin on the trap character archetype). I'd be real excited if they give him the clones due to their unique interpretation of the idea. Essentially, they copy your movements at a delay, and attack when you do, but if you stop moving, they do too to the point where they'll freeze in midair. It would add a whole slew of possibilities for tandem/trap character B.S. and I would be there for it.

Bait and punish?

You're out of your goddamned mind if you think Sakurai is gonna look at the trailer for Ninja Gaiden 4 and decide the best he can come up with is throwing shurikens all day. We've moved beyond the NES I think, both in terms of moveset design AND how the character is depicted nowadays.

His Side Special could be a Fast Slash attack. I don't know the actual name of the attack but he just dashes straight through enemies with a fast attack. Similar to Fox's Illusion.

The aforementioned Flying Swallow.

 

[dream1ng]

If XB gets all that, it will definitely become the new FE in terms of hatred by the Smash community.

Objectively incorrect unless they later make the XB4 protagonist DLC on top of this.

If it gets all this I think it'll be at the point FE was at when Roy was added but before Corrin. Right at the simmering point but not boiling over.

People tend to make exceptions for clones in terms of not treating them like they took a full roster space, so the echo might raise the pressure but wouldn't inherently cause an uproar. Thing is, XB4 very well might get a DLC character.

But I don't know why they'd need a consolation prize echo if they're retaining all three vets plus adding an original newcomer. For Xenoblade that's plenty.

 

[ninjahmos]

If Sonic ever gets more music in the next game, I hope they also include music from Sonic 3D Blast, both the Genesis and Saturn versions.

 

[SharkLord]

Bait and punish?

You're out of your goddamned mind if you think Sakurai is gonna look at the trailer for Ninja Gaiden 4 and decide the best he can come up with is throwing shurikens all day. We've moved beyond the NES I think, both in terms of moveset design AND how the character is depicted nowadays.



The aforementioned Flying Swallow.

The Xbox Ninja Gaiden is pretty defensive, all things considered; you're either blocking or your dodging 75% of the time if you don't wanted to get wrecked. That said, from what I've seen the sequels ramp up the action considerably.

Also yeah, we're most certainly getting the reboot design as the focal point. It's worth adding that in Ryu's appearances in other media, like Dead or Alive or Warriors, he generally uses his reboot design. Hell, I think the new 2D game by the Blasphemous devs is supposed to be concurrent with the NES games, and they still show Ryu in his reboot design instead of giving him the NES outfit. Mega Man and Simon haven't gotten many appearances beyond their 8-bit designs, and when they do they haven't had any drastic redesigns that supplant their classic ones (Simon's gotten a couple major redesigns, granted, but the Conan-esque look is still the default). Ryu has, though, and it's been the black-and-silver look ever since.

 

[Wonder Smash]

The aforementioned Flying Swallow.

Yeah, I forgot that that was name of it.

 

[BritishGuy54]

If XB gets all that, it will definitely become the new FE in terms of hatred by the Smash community.

So… one unique newcomer and an echo fighter is bad? This has happened before, with both Fire Emblem and Kid Icarus in Smash 4.

I think we’re all underestimating how much new age series will balloon in content next game.

Splatoon is another series that will certainly get more than just a character. It getting a character and an echo, or even two unique newcomers is a real possibility.

Or is it the fact Assist Trophies and Bosses, you know… exist? Because I see a lot of the assist trophy lineup shifting too due to again, new age series becoming more prominent.

Next Smash will certainly see new age series (such as ) ingrain themselves into the roster much more than previous games. I think that is something many Smash fans are a bit wary of, but it’s got to happen.

Also, I’m gonna go in a tangent here:
If we keep pulling the legacy card all the time, it becomes problem since EVERYONE has legacy. Let’s pretend that the DS, Wii, 3DS, and Switch don’t exist, right? With their own characters and games people are and will be nostalgic for? It’s not like nostalgia just suddenly ends at the N64.

It’s something Smash will have to answer at some point.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Splatoon is another series that will certainly get more than just a character. It getting a character and an echo, or even two unique newcomers is a real possibility.

Honestly, I don't talk about it much but I expect Splatoon to kinda go crazy next game. The original released in May 2015, just 7 months before Ultimate's project plan was made.

Since then, Splatoon has had two sequels (alongside their respective DLC campaigns) and has been jettisoned up the ranks to the point that it's a pillar of the company's entire brand image.

I never really talk about it because I'm not sure who they'd want to add, but Splatoon is almost certainly getting a good amount of new content next game. Like, probably more Assist Trophies, at least one new stage, maybe two, if it didn't get at least one new fighter I'd be shocked and Octoling as an Echo Fighter is about as easy an Echo character choice as they get, I wouldn't even be surprised if we start seeing Splatoon items in the normal item lineup.

 

[dream1ng]

So… one unique newcomer and an echo fighter is bad? I think we’re all underestimating how much new age series will balloon in content next game.

Often series that balloon in content are those that come under fire from the fanbase, like the two you listed. It's not a matter of "good" or "bad", it's just how the fanbase responds when one series adds a lot at once.

That said, I think you're overestimating how many of the newer series will balloon in content. Rapidly shooting up is uncommon; they usually steadily increase - which is probably how most series that expand will be handled. Maybe we get one series that "balloons", but with finite slots and many IPs, I doubt you're going to get a big number of series dramatically increasing their count.

Also Pikmin isn't a "new age" series, it's almost 25 years old and has been on the roster since Brawl. If it gets another character this time that's like the textbook example of gradual expansion.

 

[BritishGuy54]

Often series that balloon in content are those that come under fire from the fanbase, like the two you listed. It's not a matter of "good" or "bad", it's just how the fanbase responds when one series adds a lot at once.

That said, I think you're overestimating how many of the newer series will balloon in content. Rapidly shooting up is uncommon; they usually steadily increase - which is probably how most series that expand will be handled. Maybe we get one series that "balloons", but with finite slots and many IPs, I doubt you're going to get a big number of series dramatically increasing their count.

Also Pikmin isn't a "new age" series, it's almost 25 years old and has been on the roster since Brawl. If it gets another character this time that's like the textbook example of gradual expansion.

What I mean by ‘new age’ is created after Smash 64.

For a lot of fans, it seems the series that have been created after Smash 64 aren’t a priority compared to the series that were in Smash 64 (looking at ). Some people seem to view newer series as ‘lesser’ compared to the Original 12.

You could even put Fire Emblem in this boat, considering it debuted in the West with Smash Melee.

For a lot of newer series, it will likely be a priority for Nintendo to cultivate their recent successes with .

 

[Idon]

I think Xenoblade fills a very strong and so far relatively uncontested space in Nintendo being a large scope long JRPG series with a big sci-fi bent and protagonists that have unique and noticably visually different gimmicks.

That makes them very VERY attrative from a smash standpoint as they push forward a growing game series, already has a large and invested fanbase, and easily translatable but distinct and flashy moves for people that care about pure mechanics.

I think the specific amount of content it'll get in Smash 6 will depend exactly on what that game's goals are but I do expect a bare minimum XC3 char/stage combo.

Splatoon too, probably to a greater extent.

 

[fogbadge]

So what do you guys think will happen with the Xenoblade franchise in the next game? Both I. Regards to characters and other content.

not much. just a few additions here and there. new character? sure. new stage? if we get a new character. new AT? probably not. everything else? yeah probably a few things here and there

 

[Perkilator]

Quoting from another thread:

I think people fearing Xenoblade turning into the next Fire Emblem are missing the whole problem. The big issue Fire Emblem has is the numerous amount of clone characters beefing up the total number of characters.

Xenoblade with it's two (technically three I guess) unique characters isn't likely to have that problem. A new Xenoblade character likely won't be clone or echo fighter due to how unique the main casts are in body shape and play style.

 

[BuckleyTim]

I'm predicting the rumored February direct gets announced today solely because I have things to do tomorrow at all the possible times it could happen.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

If XB gets all that, it will definitely become the new FE in terms of hatred by the Smash community.

That's what im expecting, yeah

 

[Gengar84]

I feel like a solo Noah has enough similarities to Shulk that I could see him acting as an Isabelle style semiclone if they went that direction. They do share several skills in their games. I like him as a character but he’s the least exciting option moveset wise unless they go the hybrid class route and he uses skills from other classes as well.

It’s funny because Xenoblade is one of my favorite series to play but another Xenoblade character isn’t quite at the top of my personal most wanted list. If we’re limiting it to only first party, they probably make the top 5 depending who they go with but there’s too many third party characters I’d love to see. My favorite Xenoblade character is Nia and she’s a bit of a long shot compared to other options. My favorite Xenoblade 3 character is Ashera and it’s pretty safe to say she has no chance whatsoever. So basically, I’d be happy with another Xenoblade character but I’m not really going to get too upset if we don’t get one.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Quoting from another thread:

Honestly the issue is more that people who don't play Fire Emblem don't know that each game has a different cast. So they assume they can replicate this with other series who share the same cast in every game

 

[Gengar84]

For Fire Emblem, I just wish the Smash roster would get more creative than just defaulting to the newest lord every time. I actually really enjoyed most of the Fire Emblem games I’ve played and really like several characters in each game. My problem is more with the overuse of silent avatar characters in general than Fire Emblem specifically. I know they usually have a blank personality so the player can identify with them more since they can put themselves in their shoes but I find the opposite is true for me personally. I prefer characters that have a strong individual personality and character growth. That’s just a personal hangup for me though and I’m not saying that’s the only way to feel about it.

Ignoring likelihood for Smash, some of my personal favorite Fire Emblem characters are the Black Knight, Lucia, Zihark, Naesala, Tharja, Rinkah, Shamir, Petra, Felix, Dimitri, and Catherine.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

For Fire Emblem, I just wish the Smash roster would get more creative than just defaulting to the newest lord every time

Also Pokemon to a lesser extent since I feel like it will be boring if the next Pokemon is another starter.

 

[BrawlX10]

I used TierMaker again, and here’s a thing I made with it for what I’d like to see in the next game.
View attachment 398659

Zagreus is kind of overlooked for a smash fighter, i feel like he would fit the vive for a DLC fighter perfectly.

 

[Gengar84]

Also Pokemon to a lesser extent since I feel like it will be boring if the next Pokemon is another starter.

Yeah, I agree. I also haven’t really cared for the trend in modern starter designs lately. I usually drop them from my in game team about halfway through the game once I’ve seen their fully evolved form. A lot of them tend to look more like mascots than creatures. That extends to more than just starters but I feel starters often have the worst of it. I think a lot of Pokemon lean too heavily into referencing inspiration rather than just making a cool fantasy creature with that original idea as a loose inspiration. I still do really like a lot of modern Pokemon too but that’s just how I personally feel.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Yeah, I agree. I also haven’t really cared for the trend in modern starter designs lately. I usually drop them from my in game team about halfway through the game once I’ve seen their fully evolved form. A lot of them tend to look more like mascots than creatures. That extends to more than just starters but I feel starters often have the worst of it. I think a lot of Pokemon lean too heavily into referencing inspiration rather than just making a cool fantasy creature with that original idea as a loose inspiration. I still do really like a lot of modern Pokemon too but that’s just how I personally feel.

My prediction is that if it’s a Lucario situation where it’s a non-starter then it will probably be Ceruledge who was revealed early enough.

Ogerpon while unique because of mask gimmick has the problem of potentially being too late depending on planning time.

 

[Gengar84]

My prediction is that if it’s a Lucario situation where it’s a non-starter then it will probably be Ceruledge who was revealed early enough.

Ogerpon while unique because of mask gimmick has the problem of potentially being too late depending on planning time.

That would be cool as Ceruledge is in my top three favorites of the Gen along with Great Tusk and Lokix. Ceruledge is also the main pokemon of the villain in the current anime. I could also see Hisuian Zoroark as an option since Legends Arceus was released during that window and received a lot of positive reactions. Hisuian Zoroark even got its own mini anime series. Hisuian Zoroark is in my top 5 overall favorite Pokemon so that would be awesome.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

No new Nintendo Direct, but a time has been revealed for the April one.

x.com

x.com

 

[Gengar84]

No new Nintendo Direct, but a time has been revealed for the April one.

x.com

x.com

Do you mind sharing what the time is? I don’t really want to give X any of my business.

 

[SuperSonicFlyer]

Do you mind sharing what the time is? I don’t really want to give X any of my business.

6:00 AM Pacific Time and 9:00 Eastern Time.

 

[Gengar84]

6:00 AM Pacific Time and 9:00 Eastern Time.

Thanks. Unfortunately that’s during my work hours so I’ll have to wait until around 4:00 PM to watch it. It’s going to be tough to avoid spoilers for that long lol.

 

[waddledeeonredyoshi]

This is still a Febuary Direct announcement by definition I guess.

...
Why did they post this? It's still close to two months away. They actually jebaited me with this.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

This is still a Febuary Direct announcement by definition I guess.

...
Why did they post this? It's still close to two months away. They actually jebaited me with this.

I mean, it's the next Nintendo Console. It's nothing but hyping it up to gather interest fast and early. Even if it's two months early. The more attention the better.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Looks like no February Direct i see.

Honestly there would've been no point, all the Switch 1 games before Switch 2 release have all been announced.

Found this mock up. One of the better choices in terms of newcomers

 

[Gengar84]

Looks like no February Direct i see.

Honestly there would've been no point, all the Switch 1 games before Switch 2 release have all been announced.

Found this mock up. One of the better choices in terms of newcomers


View attachment 398692

This has a few cool newcomer choices but I’m not really feeling it overall. This cuts too many of my favorite characters and some of the newcomers are pretty questionable.

 

[Perkilator]

Looks like no February Direct i see.

Honestly there would've been no point, all the Switch 1 games before Switch 2 release have all been announced.

Found this mock up. One of the better choices in terms of newcomers


View attachment 398692

• No King K. Rool
• No Palutena
• No Ike
• No Falco
• No Pyra / Mythra
• No Banjo or Kazooie
• Marth and Roy are shoved into Alear's moveset
• The only Zelda and Metroid newcomers are yet more variations of Link and Samus
• Ring Fit Adventure is MIA

I'm sorry, fam. I just do not vibe with this roster.

Plus, I can't even read it. Can you at least post a link of were you found it?