Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[LiveStudioAudience]

Its honestly hard to say if there was ever a plan to really build outright new adversaries and/or lore for DK because there were simply not enough games or spin-offs to gauge whether various releases were just experiments or legitimate attempts to reimagine the franchise going forward. One can debate the quality of the Tiki Tribe or Snowmads vs Kremlings all day long, but one of the reasons the latter have endured is because they had multiple appearances and variations that stuck with people while the former two didn't.

It was the same with the elements introduced in Jungle Beat a game which might have been an outright test to see if audiences would respond to the DK series being oriented around the title character as a beat em up style character controlled via gimmick... or just an exploration of alternative gameplay that allowed young developers to cut their teeth before moving on to bigger projects like Mario Galaxy. Because the series has shifted from consistent releases to occasional titles every 5 years that get ported later (Jungle Beat, Returns, Tropical Freeze) DK has become almost Star Fox like in lacking a stronger sense of what the franchise is supposed to be. In that regard, stuff from the SNES trilogy often being recalled by casual and hardcore fans makes sense because it was when the broader IP was more relevant and generally more consistent.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

well there was Kingdom Hearts Re:Coded on the DS

There was also a homage to FF7 where it becomes turn based in a section with Cloud.

 

[ninjahmos]

It'll probably never happen, but I think Marina Liteyears from Mischief Makers would be a pretty cool character for Smash.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Its honestly hard to say if there was ever a plan to really build outright new adversaries and/or lore for DK because there were simply not enough games or spin-offs to gauge whether various releases were just experiments or legitimate attempts to reimagine the franchise going forward. One can debate the quality of the Tiki Tribe or Snowmads vs Kremlings all day long, but one of the reasons the latter have endured is because they had multiple appearances and variations that stuck with people while the former two didn't.

It was the same with the elements introduced in Jungle Beat a game which might have been an outright test to see if audiences would respond to the DK series being oriented around the title character as a beat em up style character controlled via gimmick... or just an exploration of alternative gameplay that allowed young developers to cut their teeth before moving on to bigger projects like Mario Galaxy. Because the series has shifted from consistent releases to occasional titles every 5 years that get ported later (Jungle Beat, Returns, Tropical Freeze) DK has become almost Star Fox like in lacking a stronger sense of what the franchise is supposed to be. In that regard, stuff from the SNES trilogy often being recalled by casual and hardcore fans makes sense because it was when the broader IP was more relevant and generally more consistent.

I actually like the Tikis a lot and hope they get a second go, even if I prefer the Kremlings overall.

They're really fun villain designs and I think there's still a lot of untapped potential there, even if I think Tiki Tong's design is a little uninspired compared to the other members.

 

[BuckleyTim]

It'll probably never happen, but I think Marina Liteyears from Mischief Makers would be a pretty cool character for Smash.

At this point I'll take any acknowledgement from Squenix that they recognize that Enix has made games that aren't Dragon Quest. Doesn't even have to be mischief makers, it can be literally anything.

Maybe the game can be on NSO? Pretty please?

 

[Gengar84]

It's not like Retro Studios was the first to do such. Nintendo EAD, how it was called back in the day, did the same with Donkey Kong Jungle Beat. Whilst a developer called PAON was ever ready to use everything Rare made ever, even more enthusiastically than Rare themselves. They made new Kremlings even, and their version of K.Rool was used for the longest time.

So I never really felt this argument held much water. You can do new stuff with the Kremlings to. Mutate them into dinosaur or something. And K.Rool as a character lives by having a new theme for just about every game he's in.

I think there’s plenty of room for the kremlings as well as other enemies like the tikis or snowmads in the same game. The classic games had a pretty big variety of enemies beyond just the kremlings.

 

[BrawlX10]

The IP is owned by Cygames.

Which... well, they've got another IP that would probably get first dibs if they were to get a character.

Oh yeah, Granblue Fantasy, that IP is having a renaisance or sorts in the western console market with Granblue Fantasy Versus Rising and Relink.
Also Dragalia Lost shows that Nintendo and Cygames had a good relationship.
You know what, i could see Granblue as a sleeper 3rd party pick that not many people sees coming, like Joker back in TGA 2018.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's not like Retro Studios was the first to do such. Nintendo EAD, how it was called back in the day, did the same with Donkey Kong Jungle Beat. Whilst a developer called PAON was ever ready to use everything Rare made ever, even more enthusiastically than Rare themselves. They made new Kremlings even, and their version of K.Rool was used for the longest time.

So I never really felt this argument held much water. You can do new stuff with the Kremlings to. Mutate them into dinosaur or something. And K.Rool as a character lives by having a new theme for just about every game he's in.

Except... different developers made various games. They're not all done by the same developer.

That's the point. Different visions of it. Some were fine with using the normal characters, some wanted to go their own direction. Even among various sequels, the producers changed. There's not a consistent set of developers and producers among the various games, so naturally they have their own takes.

...Nah, suddenly changing their entire being and design is a really poor way of using them. It's one thing to somewhat modernize them(which is what Nintendo changed for DK's latest model in Mario Kart 10, which is still very recognizable), but doing a massive redesign rarely sits well. Their reuse as we have them keeps their point intact. Besides that, reusing a boss battle style isn't odd in any franchise and in many cases, isn't specific to a character. Whether it's even just a move, a set of moves, or the general point behind it; take Dead Man's Volley and the general projectile stuff. It started in ALTTP, got reused in OOT, WW, and more games via various minor and more important bosses. It's not a signature move for Ganondorf or Agahnim. It's just a powerful recurring move.

 

[Gengar84]

Oh yeah, Granblue Fantasy, that IP is having a renaisance or sorts in the western console market with Granblue Fantasy Versus Rising and Relink.
Also Dragalia Lost shows that Nintendo and Cygames had a good relationship.
You know what, i could see Granblue as a sleeper 3rd party pick that not many people sees coming, like Joker back in TGA 2018.

I’m in the middle of playing Relink and watched the anime. I think a Granblue character could be pretty cool even if they’re not something I’m actively pushing for. I feel like it’s another one of those games where the supporting characters outshine the main protagonist for me. Gran is fine but he’s a bit generic feeling to me. So far my favorites are Katalina, Percival, Siegfried, Vaseraga, Rackam and Rosetta. Any of those would be pretty cool. I’d say Katalina and Percival are my top two.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

How did it not work out? Tropical Freeze is considered one of the best Donkey Kong games.

I think she was referring to Returns. It's a very safe game which is exactly what the franchise needed after years of gimmicky stuff but also ultimately makes it the least notable Country game in hindsight.

The Tiki Tak tribe also don't hold a candle to the Kremlin Krew of the past or the Snowmads that came right after.

 

[Gengar84]

I prefer the kremlings but I actually think the tikis and snowmads are pretty cool too, particularly the latter. I don’t really have a problem with them trying something new once in a while but I don’t want them to abandon K. Rool and the kremlings altogether. Donkey Kong Country is one of my favorite Nintendo properties so I’d be happy to see it get anything at this point.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I think she was referring to Returns. It's a very safe game which is exactly what the franchise needed after years of gimmicky stuff but also ultimately makes it the least notable Country game in hindsight.

I still prefer it to any of the SNES DKCs. It just plays better.

At this point I'll take any acknowledgement from Squenix that they recognize that Enix has made games that aren't Dragon Quest. Doesn't even have to be mischief makers, it can be literally anything.

I mean, they did remake Actraiser just a couple years ago.

I'd kill for a Quintet Collection though.

 

[Gengar84]

I still prefer it to any of the SNES DKCs. It just plays better.

I don’t think I’ve ever disagreed with a statement more. In no world does the waggle roll controls from Returns play better than DKC2. The controls in Returns were one of the main reasons I dropped that game pretty early on even though the SNES games were some of my favorite games ever.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I don’t think I’ve ever disagreed with a statement more. In no world does the waggle roll from Returns play better than DKC2. The controls in Returns were one of the main reasons I dropped that game pretty early on even though the SNES games were some of my favorite games ever.

Yeah but now you got a remaster that doesn't use waggle

 

[DarthEnderX]

In no world does the waggle roll from Returns play better than DKC2.

Ah. I played it on 3DS, which didn't have that.

 

[Gengar84]

Yeah but now you got a remaster that doesn't use waggle

That’s one reason I’m tempted to buy the port despite all the negative reviews it’s getting. The lack of waggle controls automatically makes the game infinitely better for me no matter what other problems it has graphically. I’m still going to wait for a sale though.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I’m still going to wait for a sale though.

So you're never getting it then. Got it.

 

[Gengar84]

So you're never getting it then. Got it.

Lol, you can actually find decent sales on Nintendo games every now and then through Deku Deals. I just saw the Super Mario RPG remake for $25. I hear you though.

 

[PeridotGX]

So you're never getting it then. Got it.

This'll be the year they bring back Nintendo selects! I'm sure of it!

I've thought it was the year they brought it back for three years now

 

[Ivander]

Camelot has been cursed with never completing stories/making sequels since Shining Force 3. That goes for every former staff member that came straight out of Sonic Software Planning that when onto make other things as well. Climax, Nextech, Crazy Games...

And by since, you mean "after" Shining Force 3? Cause in Japan, Shining Force 3 actually did finish it's story, although it did have a post-credits scene that never got followed up on.

 

[Gengar84]

Does anyone remember Master Higgins from Adventure Island on the NES? That was another childhood game of mine that I never hear of brought up anymore. I’m not sure if it was ever actually popular since I was so young at the time but I had fond memories of the game. He’d make for a fun surprise retro character.

 

[Wario Bros.]

Does anyone remember Master Higgins from Adventure Island on the NES? That was another childhood game of mine that I never hear of brought up anymore. I’m not sure if it was ever actually popular since I was so young at the time but I had fond memories of the game. He’d make for a fun surprise retro character.

He was one of the characters in the platform fighter DreamMix TV: World Fighters alongside Snake and Simon, so I have a bit of an idea on how he could work.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I still prefer it to any of the SNES DKCs. It just plays better.

I can agree about DKC3 (unfortunately, also imo the weakest of the 3 SNES games), but not the original and DKC2. The original just flows extremely well, and Returns really tried to emulate just that. And that's why I feel its more or less a homage to the original DKC. Even the level archetypes in some way, and the music remixes.

That's why Tropical Freeze feels like a better game cause it does more or less its own thing, with its own archetypes. However having played both more recently , I have no strong preference between the two. Returns feels more balanced in many ways. But levels are more creative in most cases in Tropical Freeze. Both don't measure up against DKC2 though. But in my opinion, nothing can.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

What character could change the most in Smash 6?

 

[Dukefire]

It'll probably never happen, but I think Marina Liteyears from Mischief Makers would be a pretty cool character for Smash.

Well, Smash Remix, a fanmade patch to Smash 64 ROM can give that feeling for Mischief Makers being present. The fan project has since been completed 10 months ago.

Of course, it is not official. It can give that hole some feeling of satisfaction.

 

[fogbadge]

What character could change the most in Smash 6?

ooh that’s a good one. It’s hard to gauge who’s most likely but I would like to see villager made more like the modern look with any adjustments that’d need to be made

 

[Shinuto]

It'll probably never happen, but I think Marina Liteyears from Mischief Makers would be a pretty cool character for Smash.

An absolute never happening 0%er but this mod of her in the 64 game is still good enough and great interpretation of her,

 

[BritishGuy54]

What character could change the most in Smash 6?

Probably . But people have probably said this every Smash game since Melee.

I’d also say also have a chance of changing a lot, mostly due to new designs or voices.

Other voice changes to look out for would be , for obvious reasons. Perhaps even may get some changes.

I will say, there is a chance also change voices. Not completely confident, but it’s possible.

 

[Shinuto]

Well, Smash Remix, a fanmade patch to Smash 64 ROM can give that feeling for Mischief Makers being present. The fan project has since been completed 10 months ago.

Of course, it is not official. It can give that hole some feeling of satisfaction.

not true its still being worked on, they were getting people for positions AFTER the latest update.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I will say, there is a chance also change voices. Not completely confident, but it’s possible.

Why would these two have voice changes? Their voice actors haven't changed.

 

[Perkilator]

What character could change the most in Smash 6?

Just to name a few:

• Donkey Kong
• Samus
• Kirby
• Luigi
• Ness
• Zelda
• Ganondorf
• Sonic
• Lucario
• Little Mac
• Min Min
• Steve

 

[DarthEnderX]

What character could change the most in Smash 6?

Hopefully Ganondorf.

 

[RileyXY1]

Why would these two have voice changes? Their voice actors haven't changed.

Yeah. Aside from Mario, Luigi, Dr. Mario, Wario, and Bayonetta, I don't know if any other characters will get voice changes.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Yeah. Aside from Mario, Luigi, Dr. Mario, Wario, and Bayonetta, I don't know if any other characters will get voice changes.

Daisy if she comes back. She was also recasted in Wonder.

 

[RileyXY1]

Daisy if she comes back. She was also recasted in Wonder.

As well as Richter, but only in Japan, because to his Japanese VA Kiyoyuki Yanada had died back in 2022. Jigglypuff is another character who could also get new voice clips due to Rachael Lillis having passed away as well and the role being taken over by Michele Knotz in the recent anime series.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Lucario

Outside of Aura, maybe better frame data and better ground moves such as jab.

 

[Dukefire]

not true its still being worked on, they were getting people for positions AFTER the latest update.

Oh.....I thought it was finshed.

Guess not then.

 

[Gengar84]

Outside of Aura, maybe better frame data and better ground moves such as jab.

I’d love it to get its energy bone club attacks and Naruto running animation. That and I’d like the moveset to just feel more fun and satisfying in general.

 

[DragonRobotKing26]

not true its still being worked on, they were getting people for positions AFTER the latest update.

wait what?, Smash Remix isn't finished?

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I’d love it to get its energy bone club attacks and Naruto running animation. That and I’d like the moveset to just feel more fun and satisfying in general.

I second this. It feels like Lucario has this perfect percent sweet spot where you can combo with high enough base damage and he's fun, but most of the match it feels like you're on a slider from being too weak to too strong and you can't do a lot unless you're in the latter category.

I guess this is kinda me saying I have beef with his gimmick, but I think I'd rather Aura keep giving minor improvements and attributes to moves like it does for Side and Neutral special, rather than giving a massive power boost. It could change his playstyle from a wind up character to something of a fundamentalist who gains swiss army style attacks the more percent he takes.