Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[CannonStreak]

Alright, this is too far into conspiracy theory territory. They did not remake SMRPG as a longplay to fabricate a justification to put Geno in Smash. Not like they would need such justification anyway if that was the character they actually wanted to put in and promote through Smash (which I really don't think he is, but that's besides the point).
Sure, they probably saw Geno's popularity on the ballot or elsewhere and that could have contributed to the decision to remake SMRPG, but that's it.

Remember SMRPG would still make sense to be remade without a character like Geno being in it at all, as it's a safe, Mario-branded, low-investment remake that fits well helping to bridge the gap to the next hardware. Also remember that promotion of remakes is rarely ever tied to characters in Smash.

This way, they get to throw a bone to Geno fans without having to actually go out of their way like investing a Smash character slot would be, as this is a game that makes just as much sense to be remade with or without Geno in it at all.

I knew that. The bolded part. Me thinking that the remake for Super Mario RPG was to get Geno in a future Smash game, while it was a thought of mine, it was more of a joke if anything. I am already pretty sure the remake was unrelated to Smash, anyway. I did bring up Geno in Smash, but it was kinda more of me talking about the remake, if anything.

 

[Gengar84]

I think it might be more the other way around if anything. Maybe Nintendo saw all the fan support for Geno in the Smash community and that gave them confidence that there was enough interest in Super Mario RPG to justify remaking it. I don’t think it had anything to do with adding Geno in Smash but maybe Smash fans had some part in Nintendo’s decision to remake it? That might not be true either but it makes more sense to me.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Games don't get made to justify potential future inclusions.

I bet they do for Smash.

I'm convinced Ghosts n' Goblins resurrection was made to build relevance with Nintendo.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I bet they do for Smash.

I'm convinced Ghosts n' Goblins resurrection was made to build relevance with Nintendo.

Do you have any evidence to support this claim? Or do you just have Smash on the brain?

 

[Kirbeh]

Do you have any evidence to support this claim? Or do you just have Smash on the brain?

To be fair, the latter applies to any active user of this website...

 

[DarthEnderX]

Do you have any evidence to support this claim?

I possess uncanny insight.

 

[EarlTamm]

I think it might be more the other way around if anything. Maybe Nintendo saw all the fan support for Geno in the Smash community and that gave them confidence that there was enough interest in Super Mario RPG to justify remaking it. I don’t think it had anything to do with adding Geno in Smash but maybe Smash fans had some part in Nintendo’s decision to remake it? That might not be true either but it makes more sense to me.

This is what I believe, as the support for Geno in Smash is the most prominent discussion that has kept SMRPG somewhat relevant in the modern day. Sure, they could have made the decision to remake it based off things like the games past high demand for rereleased on their various digital shops or some other set of data, but its hard not to imagine that things like the ballot and that very vocal support likely had some part in the pitch for the remake.

 

[osby]

I think it might be more the other way around if anything. Maybe Nintendo saw all the fan support for Geno in the Smash community and that gave them confidence that there was enough interest in Super Mario RPG to justify remaking it. I don’t think it had anything to do with adding Geno in Smash but maybe Smash fans had some part in Nintendo’s decision to remake it? That might not be true either but it makes more sense to me.

I don't think that't the case but Nintendo remaking a RPG based on "hates turn-based RPGs" fandom would be really funny.

 

[Dinoman96]

My gut feeling towards Mario RPG being remade is simply because Nintendo wanted it re-released on NSO, but Square-Enix wasn't willing to play ball there, so we instead got a full blown remake as a compromise.

Tis' the same reason the Live-a-Live remake happened.

New Takashi Tokita interview: Live A Live Remake only happened because Nintendo asked for a rerelease Nintendo - Square Enix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_YCru_yxzo Thanks to Jubern for providing a summary of this Japanese interview: Lock if Oldio

www.resetera.com

 

[fogbadge]

SE seem to be addicted to their HD 2D remakes of late. so it makes sense that they pitched the idea to nintendo. geno's smash popularity influenced nintendo into saying yes and it was probably their idea to use models than sprites

 

[UserKev]

Don't hold your breath:
Luigi(at the time)
Ness(at the time)
Sheik
Roy( especially at the time)
R.O.B
Pit
Olimar
Shulk
Duck Hunt
Inkling
Byleth
Min Min

All inclusions listed already dismantle said mantra of need multiple titles and sheer legacy under their belt to get in. Honestly this is such an arbitary mindset regardless. Waluigi wouldn't first or even last "exception" to this rule.

I actually agree but that wasn't the point I was making. Lyn for example I feel still deserve to be a newcomer. She deserve her own fan rally and it was incredibly unfair how she missed the train. I say her being the Fire Emblem introduction to western fans is good merit. Lyn is an ambiguous absence to me.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Given this is Nintendo I could see a load of reasons as to why Mario RPG got remade; get around the awkwardness of putting the original on NSO, having a relatively modest but likely successful Mario game for holiday 2023, likely let some younger developers cut their teeth on a more low risk project, potentially build a stronger relationship with ArtePiazza for future releases, and ensure there's a first party RPG for the Western and Japanese Nintendo audiences until the Thousand Year Door remaster comes out. It would be nice if they were also testing to see if there's a market for further games in this specific Mario universe, but the aforementioned reasons would be more than enough anyway.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

i DID say it was a tin foil hat theory lol

 

[Gorgonzales]

Not sure if a reboot is the most likely outcome, but dang if it's not my most wanted thing to happen to this series...

Smash has gotten kind of stale. Not bad, but very predictable and, dare I say it... boring. I'm sick of all these unchanged veterans and all of these returning stages. Give me tangible, new content that pushes the series forward instead of maintaining the status quo.

I don't think it'll happen to such an extreme degree, but I am really, REALLY hoping for a hard reset. Throw everything out, start from absolute zero. Give us new movesets for the dozens of veterans in dire need of an overhaul and completely new stages that showcase a wealth of different themes, games, and ideas. Give us new mechanics; true assists, meter canceling, new specials, aerial smashes, literally ANYTHING, I do not care. Give us new modes and ways to play the game, as well as a good amount of single-player content. I do not care if the roster ends up being 25 characters, I'm that serious.

I am happy with Smash in its current state ending at Ultimate. The series could use a good overhaul.

 

[RileyXY1]

Not sure if a reboot is the most likely outcome, but dang if it's not my most wanted thing to happen to this series...

Smash has gotten kind of stale. Not bad, but very predictable and, dare I say it... boring. I'm sick of all these unchanged veterans and all of these returning stages. Give me tangible, new content that pushes the series forward instead of maintaining the status quo.

I don't think it'll happen to such an extreme degree, but I am really, REALLY hoping for a hard reset. Throw everything out, start from absolute zero. Give us new movesets for the dozens of veterans in dire need of an overhaul and completely new stages that showcase a wealth of different themes, games, and ideas. Give us new mechanics; true assists, meter canceling, new specials, aerial smashes, literally ANYTHING, I do not care. Give us new modes and ways to play the game, as well as a good amount of single-player content. I do not care if the roster ends up being 25 characters, I'm that serious.

I am happy with Smash in its current state ending at Ultimate. The series could use a good overhaul.

Especially if Sakurai is no longer the director. Ultimate was a fitting end to the series up to this point. Although we almost got a roster reset in Ultimate, which Sakurai confirmed would have happened had he chose to create an entirely new engine rather than reusing Smash 4's. He has claimed in interviews that had he gone the route of creating a completely new engine the roster would only be one third the size of what we eventually ended up getting.

 

[UserKev]

Not sure if a reboot is the most likely outcome, but dang if it's not my most wanted thing to happen to this series...

Smash has gotten kind of stale. Not bad, but very predictable and, dare I say it... boring. I'm sick of all these unchanged veterans and all of these returning stages. Give me tangible, new content that pushes the series forward instead of maintaining the status quo.

I don't think it'll happen to such an extreme degree, but I am really, REALLY hoping for a hard reset. Throw everything out, start from absolute zero. Give us new movesets for the dozens of veterans in dire need of an overhaul and completely new stages that showcase a wealth of different themes, games, and ideas. Give us new mechanics; true assists, meter canceling, new specials, aerial smashes, literally ANYTHING, I do not care. Give us new modes and ways to play the game, as well as a good amount of single-player content. I do not care if the roster ends up being 25 characters, I'm that serious.

I am happy with Smash in its current state ending at Ultimate. The series could use a good overhaul.

This thought always linger at the back of my head. This is the reason I detest an Ultimate Deluxe or port because it's kind of like beating a dead horse.

I also found it heart breaking Sakurai used his inspiration for the newer menu from Persona, which is an identity crisis. I'm most likely the only individual here who could see the interestingly quality of characters having some moveset variation system like in MKX. Rivalry interactions, anything.

 

[Opossum]

I also found it heart breaking Sakurai used his inspiration for the newer menu from Persona, which is an identity crisis.

Literally how do you come to this conclusion?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Do you think they’d play into the fact that Waluigi is only a spinoff character by incorporating that into his moveset? For example, he could use a kart similar to Wario’s motorcycle and could use various sports equipment like Peach? Not sure that’s entirely necessary as we already have Wario and Peach for that but I could see it.

I'd create Waluigi using a lot of base assets and moves from other characters. Mainly Luigi, being a sort of semi clone of him. But give him the Forward Smash of Peach indeed and a kart Side B similar to Wario and Bowser Jr. Other Specials being sort of parodies on whatever Luigi does. Think a semi clone of a semi clone would work well for Waluigi in terms of moveset potential.

 

[UserKev]

Literally how do you come to this conclusion?

Maybe it was a rumor but didn't Sakurai state himself that he loved Persona to where it inspired the menu in Smash Ultimate? In any case, Smash menus have been flavorless. Smash 64's creativeness in it's menu design and background noises is what I would love to see again.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I'd create Waluigi using a lot of base assets and moves from other characters. Mainly Luigi, being a sort of semi clone of him. But give him the Forward Smash of Peach indeed and a kart Side B similar to Wario and Bowser Jr. Other Specials being sort of parodies on whatever Luigi does. Think a semi clone of a semi clone would work well for Waluigi in terms of moveset potential.

Not big on the kart idea but I think his inverse-Luigi mannerisms should play a factor, in addition to his personality. Him having weird versions of some of Luigi's moves (like how Wario bastardizes some of Mario's moves like down smash) would fit him very well. I could even see his final smash being Negative Zone, now that he's essentially Smash's biggest underdog.

 

[Kirbeh]

This thought always linger at the back of my head. This is the reason I detest an Ultimate Deluxe or port because it's kind of like beating a dead horse.

I also found it heart breaking Sakurai used his inspiration for the newer menu from Persona, which is an identity crisis. I'm most likely the only individual here who could see the interestingly quality of characters having some moveset variation system like in MKX. Rivalry interactions, anything.

Taking inspiration from something does not equate to an identity crisis. Like what even? I don't like Smash's menus either but that's a huge reach of a statement.

As for moveset variants, I'd be super down for that (within reason). And no you aren't the only one who'd appreciate them nor the first to bring it up. (Just to clarify I'm not saying that you're making the claim of coming up with the idea. Just pointing out that are definitely like minded individuals out there.)

When custom moves were revealed for Smash 4, there were already conversations about such an idea. And even before then I'm sure the idea has been brought up without relating back to MKX. Before MKX was even a thing you already had people bringing up merging the Links onto one slot, same for Doc, etc. Not a common conversation topic but it'd crop up every once in a while.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I also found it heart breaking Sakurai used his inspiration for the newer menu from Persona, which is an identity crisis. I'm most likely the only individual here who could see the interestingly quality of characters having some moveset variation system like in MKX. Rivalry interactions, anything.

I fond heart breaking that the original Donkey kong (1981) was inspired by Popeye, which is an identity crisis.

You know that artist always gets inspiration from others... Right?

On rivalry interctions, I think this could be fun, but like 1/3 of the cast doesn't speak at all, and even among those who can talk 90% of them canoncially says like 2 line of dialogues and a few grunts, imo it would be out of characters for most of them to have big interactions.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Hot take I know; I think might actually take a reduced roster if custom moves both came back and were expanded beyond what we saw in 4. I know it would be an absolute pain to balance but customization with 50/60 fighters would probably have me playing a wider swath of characters than the current variation of 80 plus without that option does.

 

[Kirbeh]

Hot take I know; I think might actually take a reduced roster if custom moves both came back and were expanded beyond what we saw in 4. I know it would be an absolute pain to balance but customization with 50/60 fighters would probably have me playing a wider swath of characters than the current variation of 80 plus without that option does.

Expanded in what sense? More than 3 options per special? Custom moves for other move types?

Otherwise, Im still kind of torn on bringing back custom moves. I had fun with them (well the ones I unlocked anyway), and there were some interesting options here and there, but I honestly didn't like most of them.

Having some variation is nice, but I'd still prefer that to come in the form of outright alternate versions of characters like . Add a few more where they have something to work with like with echoes and just make them selectable from the base character's slot.

It is more work than tweaking just the specials, but balances out by not being roster wide.

It would leave a lot of characters out of such an idea, but I'd rather have Ice Mario with more significant differences/changes over just swapping Mario's fireball for an ice ball sometimes.

 

[Opossum]

Maybe it was a rumor but didn't Sakurai state himself that he loved Persona to where it inspired the menu in Smash Ultimate? In any case, Smash menus have been flavorless. Smash 64's creativeness in it's menu design and background noises is what I would love to see again.

He did take inspiration from Persona. The thing that doesn't make sense is you equating that to an identity crisis.

 

[Sucumbio]

I don't like custom moves and never used them and would be unhappy if it came to pass that we lost something else because they spent too much time on custom moves. My personal dislike is probably more unique than lets on, though but maybe not. I don't like them for the same reason I didn't like the custom fighter in Soul Calibur 3, or the card game in Final Fantasy 9. It was TOO engrossing, side tracking, distracting whatever and made me lose interest in the actual game!

Now thankfully I was able to adjust by putting ff9 down for a few years, and tried again by ignoring the card game until it was unavoidable, then just made myself not play it and finish the actual game. With SC3 I never did get good at the game like I'd gotten with 2, instead just playing with the boob physics and then losing all interest. And that was the last Soul Calibur I played. Let's not let this be the fate of Smash. Have custom moves, cool but it should be a minor element. I'd rather Target Test come back honestly.

 

[UserKev]

I fond heart breaking that the original Donkey kong (1981) was inspired by Popeye, which is an identity crisis.

You know that artist always gets inspiration from others... Right?

Please don't put words in my mouth. Pre- inspiration for Donkey Kong is a stander that exists for pretty much every other franchise. Smash debuted long before any inspiration Sakurai may have had coming Ultimate. Different scenarios.

On rivalry interctions, I think this could be fun, but like 1/3 of the cast doesn't speak at all, and even among those who can talk 90% of them canoncially says like 2 line of dialogues and a few grunts, imo it would be out of characters for most of them to have big interactions.

Stage intro rivalry interactions could exist as typical taunts unique from taunts used after KO's. I addressed this in the same topic in a different thread.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Sonic was inspired by Mickey Mouse and Felix the Cat. is THAT an """Identity Crisis"""!?

No

 

[fogbadge]

Identity crisis was a really good DC story

 

[Noipoi]

Sometimes I feel like don't know who I am or why I'm even on this Earth. Is THAT an identity crisis?

 

[Perkilator]

"Identity crisis" is when people look to things for inspiration.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Artists get inspired by other art all the time. So much art is made from the creators really liking how another source handles its characters/story/design/aesthetic/worldbuilding/etc, it's just how the medium is. I don't like tooting my own horn but, but as an artist myself I want to use my own work to showcase what I'm talking about:

Here's a tangible example, with my character(s) on the left. I love caterpillars. I love 2-in-1 characters. I made a 2-in-1 caterpillar character, deliberately using pre-existing characters for inspiration and making a moodboard (seen on the right) out of them to help guide my design. By drawing from external sources it's still possible to create something new.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

This is sort of related to the topic of wanting things to feel fresh, but I'd like if at the very least every character got a new victory theme instead of constantly reusing the ones from Brawl. Like in Ultimate, Zelda and Mother got new victory themes, but why didn't everyone else? Instead we got Yoshi's victory theme absolutely hacked to pieces.

I've also seen the Sakurai quote about the roster size come up before, but I definitely feel like a third of the roster is an exaggeration on Sakurai's part because if Ultimate had had a third of its final roster that'd be like 27 or so characters, barely bigger than Melee. Definitely would've been substantial right off the heels of Smash 4 development, but probably not THAT severe.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Artists get inspired by other art all the time. So much art is made from the creators really liking how another source handles its characters/story/design/aesthetic/worldbuilding/etc, it's just how the medium is. I don't like tooting my own horn but, but as an artist myself I want to use my own work to showcase what I'm talking about:

View attachment 380805View attachment 380804

Here's a tangible example, with my character(s) on the left. I love caterpillars. I love 2-in-1 characters. I made a 2-in-1 caterpillar character, deliberately using pre-existing characters for inspiration and making a moodboard (seen on the right) out of them to help guide my design. By drawing from external sources it's still possible to create something new.

People should watch the "Everything is a Remix" documentary.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Maybe it was a rumor but didn't Sakurai state himself that he loved Persona to where it inspired the menu in Smash Ultimate?

I definitely remember him saying that at one point. I don't remember where though.

Sometimes I feel like don't know who I am or why I'm even on this Earth. Is THAT an identity crisis?

No. That's an existential crisis.

 

[chocolatejr9]

"Identity crisis" is when people look to things for inspiration.

I guess I experience it everyday then...

 

[Louie G.]

This is sort of related to the topic of wanting things to feel fresh, but I'd like if at the very least every character got a new victory theme instead of constantly reusing the ones from Brawl. Like in Ultimate, Zelda and Mother got new victory themes, but why didn't everyone else? Instead we got Yoshi's victory theme absolutely hacked to pieces.

I’m still a little bitter that Lucas didn’t get a proper Theme of Love victory theme and Wolf has to share his with Fox and Falco. In a perfect world every character gets their own but these two feel like missed opportunities even if it only applied to some of the cast.

If Fire Emblem / Xenoblade protagonists are granting new victory themes on a game-to-game basis Mother should be no different IMO. And Wolf just stands out now that many of the villains and rivals got a special one, and Star Wolf’s theme is so obvious.

 

[fogbadge]

If Fire Emblem / Xenoblade protagonists are granting new victory themes on a game-to-game basis Mother should be no different IMO. And Wolf just stands out now that many of the villains and rivals got a special one, and Star Wolf’s theme is so obvious.

i feel a similar way about zelda

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Maybe it was a rumor but didn't Sakurai state himself that he loved Persona to where it inspired the menu in Smash Ultimate? In any case, Smash menus have been flavorless. Smash 64's creativeness in it's menu design and background noises is what I would love to see again.

I love the weird garage look that smash 64 has, shame that one was quickly abandoned.

This is sort of related to the topic of wanting things to feel fresh, but I'd like if at the very least every character got a new victory theme instead of constantly reusing the ones from Brawl. Like in Ultimate, Zelda and Mother got new victory themes, but why didn't everyone else? Instead we got Yoshi's victory theme absolutely hacked to pieces.

I've also seen the Sakurai quote about the roster size come up before, but I definitely feel like a third of the roster is an exaggeration on Sakurai's part because if Ultimate had had a third of its final roster that'd be like 27 or so characters, barely bigger than Melee. Definitely would've been substantial right off the heels of Smash 4 development, but probably not THAT severe.

I think it would be cool if Pokemon's characters got victory music that reflected the vibes of their respective regions.

Like tropical sounding music for Incineroar for example.

 

[NintenZ]

Haven’t been on here in a loooooooooooong time, wanted to say I’ve been playing the original SEGA Saturn Sakura Wars game and you know damn Sakura actually seems perfect for Smash I would love her.

That’s all I wanted to say but I also have some ideas as to how she could be implemented, it’s a very unique game and I’d love to share but only if peeps are interested.