Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Wonder Smash]

What 3rd party characters do you think are the most likely to join next game?
I think a Tales and Guilty Gear rep are up there.

I think if there's a Guilty Gear rep, there's also good chance that either River City or Double Dragon reps would come with them.

Of course, specifically I mean Kunio and Riki being the River City reps and Billy and Jimmy being the Double Dragon reps.

 

[SPEN18]

Also on Wonder

Who if anyone may show up as playable in the Wonder Direct? Or not shown in the Direct but potentially shown later on or even a secret character?

 

[Gengar84]

I think if there's a Guilty Gear rep, there's also good chance that either River City or Double Dragon reps would come with them.

Of course, specifically I mean Kunio and Riki being the River City reps and Billy and Jimmy being the Double Dragon reps.

I’m assuming Billy and Jimmy would be an Olimar/Alph situation since I believe the two played identically. I played a couple of the NES Double Dragon games as a kid but my memory isn’t too great from back then. I have a lot stronger memories of Battletoads & Double Dragon on the SNES. In that game, the two brothers played exactly the same as each other and the three Battletoads all played the same as well. Maybe we can get the Toads as well if we get Billy and Jimmy so the two teams can reunite through Smash.

 

[toonito]

Hello people, I really don't pass by this thread anymore, but I wanted to share some Smash speculation from a really close Discord partner.

It's a lot of info doh, so I'm gonna send a short summary first and then all the evidence they have found.

The summary is that practically with most of the major announcements or showcases at Directs and such, there tends to be a restock of related amiibo... and It seems some upcoming unnanounced restocks could be pointing to something Smash-related getting shown really soon if all this speculation turns out correct.

With that said, here's the evidence:

Spoiler

TLDR:

• Smash is getting 2 waves of restocks, restocks has always connected to a announcement or release of a game, DLC, or content update.
• Sora is meant to be getting a Amiibo revealed soon, new Amiibo announcements has, also, 100% always connected to a new release or announcement.
• Sora's Amiibo code isn't in the game, despite them perfectly being able to 2 years ago, which implies if it's happening, they held off, which means it probably was for more Ultimate, so Nintendo could have new Smash Amiibo to sell during it.
• The Gamecube Controller got restocked in Japan, last time that happened was with Vol. 2's reveal (3 weeks before)
• The restocks aren't happening in America yet, since NoA is the global marketing center for Nintendo, that probably means they're holding off for a announcement.
• Square Enix isn't marketing the SMRPG remake on social media, the last time they did that for a direct announcement was with DQ11S when it was revealed in the Feb 2019 direct, they only started marketing it a day before Hero's reveal.
• Before the restocks, Papa heard that "Something more may be happening with Smash Ultimate", the timeframe of the report the source heard would of been June 2023.
• Next gen isn't launching until Sep/Oct 2024, they wouldn't reveal a "Deluxe" or 6 a year out, that's more marketing than what Ultimate got.
• The restocks being 2 waves implies it'll also be released, since restocks in waves has only happened with releases, the only thing we could possibly get revealed and release that quickly is more DLC
• There isn't a bundle for Vol. 2 on the eShop
• The MK8DX DLC is ending in September, meaning Nintendo is going to need to have new DLC waves to fill in that void
• The German date for the restocks going on sale, Aug 28th, has past with no announcement from Nintendo.
• Smash site updated, removing the accessories tab.
• The restocks nor Sora Amiibo can be for NL23 (FAQ)

That's all I wanted to share, keep an eye throught September as maybe interesting stuff could happen (I for sure have that granted, because LEGO Marvel CMF 2 is coming out, yay!)

See ya'll another time.

interesting

appreciate the research being done

i dont expect anything more from Ultimate other than Sora's amiibo and corresponding amiibo update but its something to keep an eye on.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I’m assuming Billy and Jimmy would be an Olimar/Alph situation since I believe the two played identically. I played a couple of the NES Double Dragon games as a kid but my memory isn’t too great from back then. I have a lot stronger memories of Battletoads & Double Dragon on the SNES. In that game, the two brothers played exactly the same as each other and the three Battletoads all played the same as well. Maybe we can get the Toads as well if we get Billy and Jimmy so the two teams can reunite through Smash.

Yeah, that's what I think too. Since they play identical in the beat'em ups, it would be make sense for Billy and Jimmy would be alts of each other in Smash.

Though, funny enough, it's the fighting games where they actually do play a little from each other. But they would obviously be based on their beat'em up versions, so making them alts of each other would still make sense.

Also, yeah, seeing the Battletoads and the Double Dragons together for the first time since their game would be cool. It was one of the earliest crossover video games, so showcasing that in Smash would be fitting.

 

[PeridotGX]

What 3rd party characters do you think are the most likely to join next game?
I think a Tales and Guilty Gear rep are up there.

I would bet good money that both of them will be playable in the next smash

 

[chocolatejr9]

Allow me to spread the good word of Nihon Falcom.

The prophet Perkilator said in the ninth chapter of his book:
"There will be a time in the future when Galilee of the Gentiles, will be filled with Trails in the Sky
The people who walk in darkness will see a great S-Craft that will shine on all who live in the land where death casts its shadow.
For Falcom will break the obscurity that binds His people...
In that day of peace, battle gear will be equipped within the game.
For a child is born to us, a please buy Trails in the Sky whenever it’s $10 on Steam is given to us.
These will be His royal titles: Wonderful Bracer, Mighty Class VII, Ys Queen of Peace.
He will rule forever with fairness and justice from the throne of His ancestor Adol. The bulging commitment of the Lord Almighty will guarantee this!

Sir, this is a Wendy's.

(Sorry, had to).

But yeah, Falcom's a sleeper pick for Smash.

 

[MasterCheef]

I wanted to share some Smash speculation from a really close Discord partner. here's the evidence:

TLDR:

• Next gen isn't launching until Sep/Oct 2024, they wouldn't reveal a "Deluxe" or 6 a year out, that's more marketing than SSBU got.
• Smash is getting 2 waves of restocks, restocks has always connected to a announcement or release of a game, DLC, or content update.
• Sora's Amiibo should be revealed soon, new Amiibo announcements has, also, 100% always connected to a new release or announcement.
• Sora's Amiibo code isn't in the game, despite them perfectly being able to 2 years ago, which implies if it's happening, they held off, which means it probably was for more Ultimate, so Nintendo could have new Smash Amiibo to sell during it.
• The Gamecube Controller got restocked in Japan, last time that happened was with Vol. 2's reveal (3 weeks before)
• Before the restocks, Papa heard ; "Something more may be happening with SSBU", the report's timeframe via the source would of been June 2023.
• The restocks being 2 waves implies it'll also be released, since restocks in waves has only happened with releases, the only thing we could possibly get revealed and released this quickly is more DLC

My thoughts ...

1. Thanks

2. i can't count out an SSBU Deluxe until the next wave of DLC or Smash 6 is announced.

3. I don't know if Square Enix not marketing SMRPG is really a big deal. Interesting point tho
3.1 However if it means 2 waves of SSBU DLC , I am super pumped.

4 It always occurred to me as suspicious how quickly MS supposedly got out and no one ever found out a thing about the next project he was working on / company for.

5 if this does turn out true , then i am super pumped because it is the last best chance for my 2 most wanteds. Ahri & Master Chief

 

[Hadokeyblade]

View attachment 376988

I would bet good money that both of them will be playable in the next smash

I can 100% see Iori being a second KOF rep after Terry if Sakurai continues to direct smash game definitely.

 

[Noipoi]

I don't see the point in making more Ultimate dlc. Not at this point in time.

The Switch is just about done. The next console probably drops next year, and from that point it's only a matter of time before a new Smash is coming. They're probably working on it in some form as we speak.

Ultimate is donion rings, dude.

 

[EarlTamm]

I don't see the point in making more Ultimate dlc. Not at this point in time.

The Switch is just about done. The next console probably drops next year, and from that point it's only a matter of time before a new Smash is coming. They're probably working on it in some form as we speak.

Ultimate is donion rings, dude.

Although I am very hesitant on any sort of hints that more Smash may be coming soon, I can sorta see potential strategies here for a hypothetical Smash Ultimate Deluxe. There is little doubt in my mind that the next console will be backwards comparable, and that could lead to some awkward comparisons if the next Smash doesn't have the absolute insane roster Ultimate has. I could very well see people going "Why would I want this compromised roster when I can already play Ultimate on this console?"

If they go Deluxe they can basically sell a new bundled game with all the DLC for the new console while also giving updates and DLC to the people who already have base Ultimate. I am no expert on this sort of thing and the Deluxe idea really depends on if going that route will allow them to keep the third parties in the roster, but it seems like a decent plan on paper.

 

[DarthEnderX]

See, Geno (and Mallow, by extension) is in a weird spot where he is a Mario character, but he's not owned by Nintendo, instead being owned by Square-Enix.

He's not owned by SE either. It's not like SE could just put him in a random SE game without Nintendo's permission.

He's co-owned by both companies.

Besides that, Mario Kart's mobile version was effectively the MK9 of the group, too.

Mm, sorta. The city tracks are really their own thing for Tour.

But the other new, non-city tracks in Tour are like the stand-in for MK9.

That's why in MK8D, the city tracks are labeled "Tour", while the other new tracks aren't.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The only reason I'm even humoring the idea of more things in Ultimate is that the booster course pass for MK8D has demonstrated Nintendo's willingness to go back to big selling evergreen titles with DLC.

Even then if its anything, I'm just expecting a few more stages, misc modes, and some Mii costumes. The Booster Course pass is largely made of fairly modest work for much of it, and I just can't see the Smash team cutting similar corners for actual fighters, hence why various other elements seem more likely. They're just low key enough that they won't require to many resources to make, but can be attractive enough to fans to charge for.

Echo fighters of existing characters is about as far as I'm willing to believe and even that strikes me as a pseudo pipe dream.

 

[Opossum]

Some folks are in for a rude awakening if they think Sora is ever getting an amiibo. The writing has absolutely been on the wall that he won't be.

 

[Deleted member]

While we are on the subject of new stuff, would an actual Nintendo Direct come soon after the Mario Wonder Direct, like next week? Because I am doubting that.

I know there was a Splatoon 3 Direct before the September Direct last year, but the former was on the 10th of August of that year, and like I said, I don't think a September Nintendo Direct would be so soon after the Mario Wonder one.

I'm personally not even sure if there will be a September Direct at all.

View attachment 376988

I would bet good money that both of them will be playable in the next smash

Now that you brought up Papyrus do you guys think characters from games like Undertale, Shovel Knight, Shantae, Touhou...etc that aren't from videogame enterpises are likely or you think nintendo would chose other characters over them?

I think if there's a Guilty Gear rep, there's also good chance that either River City or Double Dragon reps would come with them.

Of course, specifically I mean Kunio and Riki being the River City reps and Billy and Jimmy being the Double Dragon reps.

I could see them choosing River City or Double Dragon first, buti think i'm going with GG as the first arc sys rep.
If River City and Guily Gear get both added in the same game i guess it depends in how many fighter passes Smash 6 has, i think a Kunio base roster and Sol DLC would make the most sense to me if we get both in the same game to me.

I’m not really confident enough in anyone in particular to say they are likely but there are several characters I feel have a reasonable chance and are being overlooked.

Warning, lots of text:

Spoiler

I agree with you that Tales and Guilty Gear make a lot of sense to get something in Smash. For Tales, I think Lloyd is probably the most likely but I’m personally hoping for either Velvet Crowe or an Alphen/Shionne tag duo character. Guru Lowell could be awesome too and I’d love to see Repede somehow incorporated in his moveset. I think a sword fighter and dog companion could really make him stand out from all the others in Smash. For Guilty Gear, I think Sol Badguy is the obvious choice. I’d love to see him bring the cel shaded style into Smash, which could also be applied to others like Toon Link.

I feel like another Microsoft character has a great chance. There are a ton of great possible franchises that could all be solid additions. On one hand, you can go with overall gaming popularity and impact with characters like Master Chief, Doom Slayer, Arthas, or Kerrigan. They could also play up the old Sony/Nintendo rivalry with characters like Crash or Spyro or call back to Nintendo’s own history with another RARE character like Rash, Fulgore, or Joanna Dark.

Beyond Microsoft and Bandai-Namco,I feel like Capcom and SEGA could easily get another character in Smash. For SEGA, I feel the most likely option is another Sonic character like Eggman, Tails, Knuckles, or Shadow but we could easily get something else like a mainline Shin Megami Tensei character. For Capcom, I feel like the most likely option is Zero from Mega Man X but he’s far from the only option. Chun-Li, Phoenix Wright, Amaterasu, or Leon Kennedy could easily make it as well.

Another Western franchise that has a decent chance is League of Legends. There are two RPGs on the Switch based in that universe and there are tons of great unique characters and gameplay styles to choose from. Each character could easily stand on their own but I think a duo character is also possible here. Both the main series and the Project L fighting game have a heavy emphasis on teamwork. Project L specifically has a variety of double team attacks when tagging in. There are a few pairings that could work great for this idea such as Ahri/Yasuo or Vi/Caitlyn. Vi/Jinx could also work since they at least teamed together at one point despite having a pretty bad breakup afterwards.

I feel like another Microsoft character has a great chance. There are a ton of great possible franchises that could all be solid additions. On one hand, you can go with overall gaming popularity and impact with characters like Master Chief, Doom Slayer, Arthas, or Kerrigan. They could also play up the old Sony/Nintendo rivalry with characters like Crash or Spyro or call back to Nintendo’s own history with another RARE character like Rash, Fulgore, or Joanna Dark.

So far, we don’t have anyone from Koei-Tecmo. I feel the two most likely candidates here are Ryu Hyabusa from Ninja Gaiden and Lu Bu from Dynasty Warriors. Ninja Gaiden was an iconic NES franchise and Warriors has had a ton of crossovers with Nintendo in recent years.

We could also potentially get something from a smaller developer with recent Nintendo history like NIS. Laharl or Etna from Disgaea would both be fun characters. One series that I’ve never really seen brought up is Borderlands. Not only do the games sell really well, the whole trilogy is playable on the Switch. The characters all have fun unique abilities and gameplay styles that could really shine in Smash.

Agreed with League of Legends, it's one of the most popular competitive games out there, plus the Arcane show was very well recived, which boosted it's popularity for non-pc gamers as well.
As you said Project L is also coming.
I wonder if they'll chose Jinx over Ahri, since Arcane has made Jinx very popular.

 

[Perkilator]

I'm personally not even sure if there will be a September Direct at all.

There was a September Direct in 2022 about a month after August 2022’s Splatoon 3 Direct. A September Direct this year probably won’t happen that soon after the Wonder Direct, but that does t mean it won’t happen at all.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Despite being too early, it's nice to see actual Smash speculation to start dumming again. I do believe it's too early to call but i guess this is a sign that things are now in the works

Yeah, he was pretty much taking advantage of the Geno fans who believed and trusted him.

Please, let's not start spread misinformation please. Fatmanoice was no way taking the advantage of us. We stated this many times in that last Geno Thread. Most of us knew the writing was on the wall with Sephiroth's announcement. He was just coming with theories and we just heard him out. I don't see the issue with that.

I came relatively recently on SmashBoards but i still don't get the hostility whenever he is mentioned or again, why he was banned.

Some folks are in for a rude awakening if they think Sora is ever getting an amiibo. The writing has absolutely been on the wall that he won't be.

Why wouldn't he? Every character that made onto the roster has gotten an amiibo, even despite the legal or financial hurdles you might be implying, why would Sora be the exception?

 

[Opossum]

Despite being too early, it's nice to see actual Smash speculation to start dumming again. I do believe it's too early to call but i guess this is a sign that things are now in the works



Please, let's not start spread misinformation please. Fatmanoice was no way taking the advantage of us. We stated this many times in that last Geno Thread. Most of us knew the writing was on the wall Sephiroth. He was just coming with theories and we just heard him out. I don't see the issue with that

I came relatively recently on SmashBoards but i still don't get the hostility whenever he is mentioned or again, why he was banned.



Why wouldn't he? Every character that made onto the roster has gotten an amiibo, even despite the legal or financial hurdles you might be implying, why would Sora be the exception?

Sora is literally the only character with zero amiibo data in the game, even after several updates. In Min Min's presentation, Sakurai straight up said he doesn't know how many more amiibo will be made, likely foreshadowing this issue. When Pyra, Mythra, and Kazuya had theirs announced, Sora explicitly did not, despite it being the final presentation. Add onto all of this that merchandising is one of the things Disney corporate is the most protective of, and you have a perfect storm of Not Gonna Happen that only those who are most in denial can ignore.

 

[Deleted member]

There was a September Direct in 2022 about a month after August 2022’s Splatoon 3 Direct. A September Direct this year probably won’t happen that soon after the Wonder Direct, but that does t mean it won’t happen at all.

Oh, i see.
Maybe it could happen again.
Last direct was great with Dragon Quest Monsters!

Also, I do wonder when Smash 6 speculation scene will truly begin? I'm thinking somewhere in 2026, i asume the next Nintendo console will be out by then.

 

[Noipoi]

Oh, i see.
Maybe it could happen again.
Last direct was great with Dragon Quest Monsters!

Also, I do wonder when Smash 6 speculation scene will truly begin? I'm thinking somewhere in 2026, i asume the next Nintendo console will be out by then.

About a year into the next console’s life. That’s when Ultimate was announced, so people will be expecting the pattern to repeat.

Even if it doesn’t happen exactly then, that’s when the rumors will really start popping up.

 

[Awkwah]

I would just want more DLC for the possible Among Us content dream

 

[TheLamerGamer]

Even though I'm absolutely certain we aren't getting any smash content until after the next console releases, it isn't quite as unbelievable as it would have been if Mario Kart hadn't randomly got dlc 5 years after launch. Even then, the chances are practically non-existent, and the absolute best-case scenario would be some stages and music, which I'd be more than happy with.

That said, I stand by what I said earlier, it would be a good way to keep peoples' attention until the next console launches without taking any of their teams away from new titles. They probably have something else in mind for that though, presumably ports.

Also, for those of you who like listening to video game music, almost all the remaining mainline SMT OSTs were added to spotify and other platforms today. Listen to SMT IV. Seriously, it might be my all-time favourite game soundtrack.

 

[CannonStreak]

Please, let's not start spread misinformation please. Fatmanoice was no way taking the advantage of us. We stated this many times in that last Geno Thread. Most of us knew the writing was on the wall with Sephiroth's announcement. He was just coming with theories and we just heard him out. I don't see the issue with that.

I came relatively recently on SmashBoards but i still don't get the hostility whenever he is mentioned or again, why he was banned.

I would not be so sure about that, Nabbitfan. I mean, I was there on the Geno thread, and those fans were overhyped and really thought Geno was going to be in, maybe partly because of what Fatmanonice kept saying. Maybe it wasn't intentional on his part, maybe to some degree, too, but as one who was there, I tried to tell the Geno fans on that threat to hype responsibly, but they would not listen and got mad when I said it, and look where that lead them when Sephiroth was announced.

Some people described Fatmanonice as a good friend, but I know that good friends do not lead others to massive disappointment and anger when a character of a video game of all things ends up not being playable in a game like Smash Bros. He may not have been responsible for the other Geno fans' behavior, but his theories and how he presented them did not help with what ultimately happened. Plus, I have a feeling he was doing what he did on the Geno thread mostly for attention.

It is one thing to post theories on things, it is another to get people hyped up to a fault.

 

[MasterCheef]

Even though I'm absolutely certain we aren't getting any smash content until after the next console releases, it isn't quite as unbelievable as it would have been if Mario Kart hadn't randomly got dlc 5 years after launch. Even then, the chances are practically non-existent, and the absolute best-case scenario would be some stages and music, which I'd be more than happy with.

That said, I stand by what I said earlier, it would be a good way to keep peoples' attention until the next console launches without taking any of their teams away from new titles. They probably have something else in mind for that though, presumably ports.

Also, for those of you who like listening to video game music, almost all the remaining mainline SMT OSTs were added to spotify and other platforms today. Listen to SMT IV. Seriously, it might be my all-time favourite game soundtrack.

We already have 2 new amiibo with totally unannounced release dates. Which by the way , all the amiibo from this franchise have made it into SSBU soo far.

Why would Nintendo not have more DLC planned ? Seems like a much easier way to keep making SSBU sales grow.

 

[Deleted member]

If Hero returns i hope we get orchestral soundtrack and more music tracks.

There's some real cool music they can add:

Dhoulmagus and Great Battle in the Vast Sky from DQ8 are great:

The Battle Theme from Dragon Quest 5 is also great:

While Yggdrasil Altar is a cool stage, i would prefer if we got a Dragon Quest VIII stage (totally not my bias here xD).

Castle Trodain:

Tower of Alexandra could also work well as a stage: (Sorry for the youtube thumbnail lmao)

 

[fogbadge]

anyone mind if i post my wonder direct reactions? well tough

three playable toads, lets go.
plus captain cameos
nice selection of playable characters and daisy.
the bubble power up appeals to me a fair bit
the badge power ups look good
liking the enemies
the wonder effects look fun
and i gotta say, the online features where you just help each other seems rather good

it's gonna be slightly funny if bowser's castle ends up as a final smash before a stage
also prince floran mii hat anyone?

 

[Deleted member]

anyone mind if i post my wonder direct reactions? well tough

three playable toads, lets go.
plus captain cameos
nice selection of playable characters and daisy.
the bubble power up appeals to me a fair bit
the badge power ups look good
liking the enemies
the wonder effects look fun
and i gotta say, the online features where you just help each other seems rather good

it's gonna be slightly funny if bowser's castle ends up as a final smash before a stage
also prince floran mii hat anyone?

Imagine if Prince Floran is the next Mario rep lol.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I could see them choosing River City or Double Dragon first, buti think i'm going with GG as the first arc sys rep.
If River City and Guily Gear get both added in the same game i guess it depends in how many fighter passes Smash 6 has, i think a Kunio base roster and Sol DLC would make the most sense to me if we get both in the same game to me.

That's the way I see it too, kind of like Mega Man and Ryu in Smash 4.

It's also the way I want it too. I'd be more excited to have Kunio than Sol.

 

[Garteam]

Sora is literally the only character with zero amiibo data in the game, even after several updates. In Min Min's presentation, Sakurai straight up said he doesn't know how many more amiibo will be made, likely foreshadowing this issue. When Pyra, Mythra, and Kazuya had theirs announced, Sora explicitly did not, despite it being the final presentation. Add onto all of this that merchandising is one of the things Disney corporate is the most protective of, and you have a perfect storm of Not Gonna Happen that only those who are most in denial can ignore.

Sakurai's comments about Smash merchandise being very difficult to produce and Amiibo being the exception really makes me think it took nothing short of a minor miracle to get Amiibo of the Smash cast off the ground (pitching the idea when the toys to life trend at its height probably helped, with the later characters getting in through grandfathering and Sakurai's sway). Given how many weird concessions had to be granted to get Sora into Smash (In-game renders of Sora must be posed to match his original art, no depicting character art for the series' spirits [with the exception of Kingdom Hearts 3 Sora], no remixes, no Mii costumes, etc.) and Amiibo's general waning popularity, it wouldn't surprise me if Sakurai just went "**** it, this isn't a hill worth dying on" and negotiations for a Sora Amiibo fell through.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Sakurai's comments about Smash merchandise being very difficult to produce and amiibo being the exception really makes me think it took nothing short of a minor miracle to get amiibo of the Smash cast off the ground (pitching the idea when the toys to life trend at its height probably helped, with the later characters getting in through grandfathering and Sakurai's sway). Given how many weird concessions had to be granted to get Sora into Smash (In-game renders of Sora must be posed liked the original art, no depicting character art for the series' spirits [with the exception of Kingdom Hearts 3 Sora], no remixes, no Mii costumes, etc.) and Amiibo's general waning popularity, it wouldn't surprise me if Sakurai just went "**** it, this isn't a hill worth dying on" and negotiations for a Sora Amiibo fell through.

Hell I think Amiibos are why we only had a few echoes in the first place. They were trying to make way less Amiibo for SSBU vs. SSB4, even with cases like the Zelda amiibo not matching the designs used, and making too many echoes would make doing that a problem.

 

[Stratos]

Today's Nintendo Direct impressed me by showing a new trailer for Super Mario Bros. Wonder, especially the three new forms of Elephant Mario, Bubble Mario and Drill Mario as well as the four Wonder Effect forms Spike Ball Mario, Stretchy Mario, Goomba Mario and Balloon Mario. I also believe at least that he will have more to show that maybe he hasn't shown yet.

 

[osby]

Sakurai's comments about Smash merchandise being very difficult to produce and Amiibo being the exception really makes me think it took nothing short of a minor miracle to get Amiibo of the Smash cast off the ground (pitching the idea when the toys to life trend at its height probably helped, with the later characters getting in through grandfathering and Sakurai's sway). Given how many weird concessions had to be granted to get Sora into Smash (In-game renders of Sora must be posed to match his original art, no depicting character art for the series' spirits [with the exception of Kingdom Hearts 3 Sora], no remixes, no Mii costumes, etc.) and Amiibo's general waning popularity, it wouldn't surprise me if Sakurai just went "**** it, this isn't a hill worth dying on" and negotiations for a Sora Amiibo fell through.

I'm not refuting the rest of your points but do we know that this was a concession? It always felt like a unique way to reference Sora's home series to me.

 

[Sucumbio]

Future DLC: I feel that the Mario Kart dev team being different from the Smash team is more than a minor difference and enough to reduce the potential for more Ultimate content.

Sora: I want to believe we'll get an amiibo but I understand the fact it's unlikely given the body of evidence against it happening. Hoping against hope, such an endearing human trait, I'm touched... Really.

Super Mario Wonder: lots to unpack. I can't wait to play it! All these new mechanics. I'm wondering just how different the game plays when you use Yoshi and that other thing vs the normal cast. Seems like they focused more on how Yoshi is a soft "easy mode" but I think he can't transform into elephant for example. Interesting balance strategy to say the least.

For the next Smash I'd be psyched for the Mario cast to incorporate something new from this entry.

 

[CannonStreak]

Future DLC: I feel that the Mario Kart dev team being different from the Smash team is more than a minor difference and enough to reduce the potential for more Ultimate content.

Sora: I want to believe we'll get an amiibo but I understand the fact it's unlikely given the body of evidence against it happening. Hoping against hope, such an endearing human trait, I'm touched... Really.

Super Mario Wonder: lots to unpack. I can't wait to play it! All these new mechanics. I'm wondering just how different the game plays when you use Yoshi and that other thing vs the normal cast. Seems like they focused more on how Yoshi is a soft "easy mode" but I think he can't transform into elephant for example. Interesting balance strategy to say the least.

For the next Smash I'd be psyched for the Mario cast to incorporate something new from this entry.

I am not doubting you, but what is the body of evidence against a Sora amiibo?

 

[Laniv]

I am not doubting you, but what is the body of evidence against a Sora amiibo?

Well, there's still no data for a Sora amiibo in the game. While this was the case for Smash 4, they did confirm the last three were getting amiibo the day they were announced. There's also that Sakurai stated he doesn't know how many more will be made.

Speaking as someone who is on the train of "they're making 4 amiibo for his first four costumes because Disney wants that sweet, sweet merchandise money", it's not looking good.

 

[CannonStreak]

Well, there's still no data for a Sora amiibo in the game. While this was the case for Smash 4, they did confirm the last three were getting amiibo the day they were announced. There's also that Sakurai stated he doesn't know how many more will be made.

Speaking as someone who is on the train of "they're making 4 amiibo for his first four costumes because Disney wants that sweet, sweet merchandise money", it's not looking good.

Oh, that. Yeah, it is not looking good.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Sakurai's comments about Smash merchandise being very difficult to produce and Amiibo being the exception really makes me think it took nothing short of a minor miracle to get Amiibo of the Smash cast off the ground (pitching the idea when the toys to life trend at its height probably helped, with the later characters getting in through grandfathering and Sakurai's sway). Given how many weird concessions had to be granted to get Sora into Smash (In-game renders of Sora must be posed to match his original art, no depicting character art for the series' spirits [with the exception of Kingdom Hearts 3 Sora], no remixes, no Mii costumes, etc.) and Amiibo's general waning popularity, it wouldn't surprise me if Sakurai just went "**** it, this isn't a hill worth dying on" and negotiations for a Sora Amiibo fell through.

I very much doubt Disney, the company that had probably the biggest invested in toys to life and saw the writing on the wall when that genre fell through would have wanted a Sora amiibo anyway lol

 

[Perkilator]

Wouldn’t it be hilarious if Sakurai appeared in a Direct and said “Hm? Sora amiibo? Unfortunately, I’m afraid no such thing exists.

…As if I’d ever really say that.” and then revealed amiibo with all four of his costumes in SSBU?

 

[Garteam]

I'm not refuting the rest of your points but do we know that this was a concession? It always felt like a unique way to reference Sora's home series to me.

There's been no confirmation that the pose references were a concession to Disney, it just seems odd that all four of Sora's unique alt costumes match the poses in his original art when every other character in the roster has a unique pose. Cloud did follow this trend in Smash for, where his default alt matched his FFVII art. However, his Advent Children alts seemed to have a unique pose, so the render for his default costume was nothing more than a reference. Sora having this be the trend across his alts, along with the general weirdness regarding Kingdom Hearts' depiction in Smash, makes me think this was more at the request of Disney than necessarily being an organic creative choice.

Sora's Kingdom Hearts 3 spirit is also the only Kingdom Hearts spirit in Smash to use unaltered artwork from any entry in the series. My guess is Disney only wanted renders from 3 to appear in Smash, so models from the HD ports of 1, 2, and Birth by Sleep were used for the spirits and Sora's fighter renders were made to recreate the original Nomura artwork to work around this limitation. I imagine there was a lot of discussion regarding this area of Sora's inclusion specifically and, even if my guess is partially right, there's a lot more to it than that.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

Wouldn’t it be hilarious if Sakurai appeared in a Direct and said “Hm? Sora amiibo? Unfortunately, I’m afraid no such thing exists.

…As if I’d ever really say that.” and then revealed amiibo with all four of his costumes in SSBU?

the internet would collapse from the sheer weight of complaints about the "fakeout reveal" of something completely different, be it ultimate deluxe, fp3, a reboot or otherwise