Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Hadokeyblade]

Adding on to cool boss themes I was kinda bummed this boss theme didnt come with Sora.

 

[Gengar84]

Adding on to cool boss themes I was kinda bummed this boss theme didnt come with Sora.

Yeah, the series has a ton of awesome boss themes. It’s kind of a shame they just stuck with the first game. I had Darkness of the Unknown on my list for most wanted boss music but I’ll gladly take any of these great themes.

 

[Noipoi]

Roar of Dedede is a requirement for the next Smash.

I actually think a stage based on Forgotten Land would be rad, maybe it could come with Bandana Waddle Dee. But despite all that, RoDDD needs to be there. It's too hype to be left out.

 

[Idon]

Adding on to cool boss themes I was kinda bummed this boss theme didnt come with Sora.

Anything post KH1 in general.
get any KH fan, any at all, and if you ask them what their absolute favorite song from the series is, it's gonna be from every other game but KH1 lol.

 

[DarthEnderX]

About a character that Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels has is Blue Bowser who appears in World 8-4 and World 9-3 and is believed to be the brother of our familiar Bowser named "Bowser's Brother ”, the question I have is, is he really Bowser's brother or is this someone fake? And also if he really is his brother shouldn't he be featured in other mario games as well?

MOST of the Bowsers in SMB and TLL are fake. That's why they turn into normal enemies when killed wish fireballs. Only the ones at the end of 8-4 are real because they remain Bowser as they die.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Blue Bowser isn't supposed to be a random enemy. It's actually a more proper character. It's just inconsistently used and barely shows up as a character proper, sometimes having a reused variation.

Only a player's guide first suggests he's a fake, but the more up to date character guide itself makes it clear he's a brother of Bowser.

Other games do references a concept, but has the colors fairly off or just is loose at best. However, one of Smash's costumes for Bowser being Blue is actually specified in the Tips Section that it's colored after him(both in 4 and Ultimate). Other than that, he only actually appeared in The Lost Levels. He does not get turned back into a minion upon defeat either, only showing up before Bowser in 8-4 and a reappearance in 9-3.

The other ones are clearly a case of "not many color options", and sometimes colors can be even inconsistent due to limited palettes/coding, making Bowser and Bowser's Brother sometimes look the same. The Fake Bowsers were in Super Mario Bros. 1 as well, though it was an updated version that turned them into minions to make it clear of that. Though note what I said about color issues. The minions can even turn blue unintentionally. The colors Bowser has in Mario Golf and Tennis as an alt are actually different from Bowser's Brother in terms of how the coloration is supposed to be. Though being how long it took Smash 3DS/Wii U to come out, that concept may actually not matter and it could be a light reference to him or the fake Bowsers specifically. Note that Fake Bowsers already have a different blue color scheme, but sometimes are just identical to Bowser's normal red/yellow. They don't actually have the same colors as Bowser's Brothers.

It also doesn't help that Koopa(Blue) is Bowser's Brother's Japanese name originally, meaning it basically is a super easy thing to misunderstand. But yeah, they're overall different characters in the series. It would've been neat if he was given a proper name, heh.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

Smash 8 Deluxe was never declared "over with"

It's hard to declare a game "over with" when it's over a decade before it releases

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's hard to declare a game "over with" when it's over a decade before it releases

Oddly enough everybody knew which game I meant despite the typo. Fixed.

Though hey, we'll be getting an actual 8th game down the line. ...I still wouldn't mind seeing some Mobile variation, if only just to see all those tons of characters people want to play as. That'd be nice. Sure, it's most likely to be a Gacha, but... hey, all your fan favorites are there. Of course, it's a licensing nightmare for a much more minor game, so it has no real chance of happening anyway. XD

 

[TheLamerGamer]

Oddly enough everybody knew which game I meant despite the typo. Fixed.

Though hey, we'll be getting an actual 8th game down the line. ...I still wouldn't mind seeing some Mobile variation, if only just to see all those tons of characters people want to play as. That'd be nice. Sure, it's most likely to be a Gacha, but... hey, all your fan favorites are there. Of course, it's a licensing nightmare for a much more minor game, so it has no real chance of happening anyway. XD

Yeah it was clear what you meant in context, I just thought it was funny.

Honestly, Smash is one of the last Nintendo games I'd want to get a mobile version, fighting games never feel right with touch controls. I'd still play it, but I'd rather they used other franchises.

 

[Stratos]

If they really plan to make 'Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Deluxe' and the DLC characters that Super Smash Bros. Ultimate had, it will have them there as normal fighters. Since as I wrote "Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Deluxe" will have the DLC characters from Super Smash Bros. Ultimate as normal fighters, I'd say they should make a new Adventure Mode to show what role the "former DLC characters" will play there. But in this particular case it would be better to make a new Super Smash Bros. instead of a deluxe version of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate and in this new Super Smash Bros. it would also be better to put the new Adventure Mode so that.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah it was clear what you meant in context, I just thought it was funny.

Honestly, Smash is one of the last Nintendo games I'd want to get a mobile version, fighting games never feel right with touch controls. I'd still play it, but I'd rather they used other franchises.

I was more saying how easy it is to get tons of characters available in general, even if it's more of a collection game with a limited moveset. Definitely not as good as we got, but it would be more pleasing to see a lot of a bigger roster for tons of people.

It doesn't work that great outside of crossovers where the merit is more the character than just the gameplay. That's where they stand out, ultimately(sic). It's why Tour was rather popular, because of having more and more characters than before they could easily throw in. Gacha is kind of the strongest point for a hefty roster even then. Easier assets, etc. But yeah, mobile doesn't work well for actual fighting. But maybe a spin-off like a card game could be neat or something. I dunno. Hard to say.

(Truthfully, I don't like being joked about when I make a typo(it comes off as mocking to me, and I despise being mocked. I get it's a joke for some people, but after being relentlessly bullied(and still am), it's a hefty sore spot for me). I'd just rather it be pointed out so I can fix it. Nothing personal or anything, of course. I know it was in good faith).

 

[smashkirby]

About a character that Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels has is Blue Bowser who appears in World 8-4 and World 9-3 and is believed to be the brother of our familiar Bowser named "Bowser's Brother ”, the question I have is, is he really Bowser's brother or is this someone fake? And also if he really is his brother shouldn't he be featured in other mario games as well?

It's generally unclear. Early sources did claim he was Bowser's brother, listing him with Bowser and the Koopalings as part of the "Ō-zoku" (King Tribe). Later games would claim that Blue Bowser is just that: a blue, fake Bowser.

Blue Bowser isn't supposed to be a random enemy. It's actually a more proper character. It's just inconsistently used and barely shows up as a character proper, sometimes having a reused variation.

Only a player's guide first suggests he's a fake, but the more up to date character guide itself makes it clear he's a brother of Bowser.

Other games do references a concept, but has the colors fairly off or just is loose at best. However, one of Smash's costumes for Bowser being Blue is actually specified in the Tips Section that it's colored after him(both in 4 and Ultimate). Other than that, he only actually appeared in The Lost Levels. He does not get turned back into a minion upon defeat either, only showing up before Bowser in 8-4 and a reappearance in 9-3.

The other ones are clearly a case of "not many color options", and sometimes colors can be even inconsistent due to limited palettes/coding, making Bowser and Bowser's Brother sometimes look the same. The Fake Bowsers were in Super Mario Bros. 1 as well, though it was an updated version that turned them into minions to make it clear of that. Though note what I said about color issues. The minions can even turn blue unintentionally. The colors Bowser has in Mario Golf and Tennis as an alt are actually different from Bowser's Brother in terms of how the coloration is supposed to be. Though being how long it took Smash 3DS/Wii U to come out, that concept may actually not matter and it could be a light reference to him or the fake Bowsers specifically. Note that Fake Bowsers already have a different blue color scheme, but sometimes are just identical to Bowser's normal red/yellow. They don't actually have the same colors as Bowser's Brothers.

It also doesn't help that Koopa(Blue) is Bowser's Brother's Japanese name originally, meaning it basically is a super easy thing to misunderstand. But yeah, they're overall different characters in the series. It would've been neat if he was given a proper name, heh.

Honestly, I've been of the headcanon that Bowser's brother is Morton Koopa Sr. Like, if Nintendo bothered, there'd be a pretty simple way to re-introduce him into Mario canon, AND retcon the Koopalings into being related to Bowser again.

It's even something I've been hoping the Mario movie-verse would do.

 

[Speed Weed]

melvin, brother of the bowser

 

[Swamp Sensei]

melvin, brother of the bowser

: Dad, how come we don't go to visit Uncle Melvin anymore?


: I'd rather not talk about it, son.

 

[Oracle Link]

Roar of Dedede is a requirement for the next Smash.

I actually think a stage based on Forgotten Land would be rad, maybe it could come with Bandana Waddle Dee. But despite all that, RoDDD needs to be there. It's too hype to be left out.

The Main issue i have with a forgotten land stage is that Another Dimension deserves a spot more!
But I could accept a Forgotten land stage if it isnt grassland based So yeah no waddle dee town or first world!
The Best stages would be these:
Wonderia
The Icy Bridge
Redgar forbidden lands
and DEFINITLY LAb Discovera (Roof or Eternal Capsule)

Honestly, I've been of the headcanon that Bowser's brother is Morton Koopa Sr. Like, if Nintendo bothered, there'd be a pretty simple way to re-introduce him into Mario canon, AND retcon the Koopalings into being related to Bowser again.

It's even something I've been hoping the Mario movie-verse would do.

I Doubt heavily that they would ever bring up morton Koopa sr. as the names of the koopalings were made up by some joe smoe on the localization team! Nintendo just liked the names and thus ported them into Japanese

 

[CannonStreak]

You know, a Mario Kart 8 Deluxe only happened because the original was on a failing system that was the Wii U, was it not?

Super Smash Brothers Ultimate was not on a failing console, so that would be at least one reason why Nintendo would not see the need to make a Deluxe version of it, right?

 

[fogbadge]

Remember when people said ultimate was a deluxe version of 4?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Remember when people said ultimate was a deluxe version of 4?

I still think it is.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Remember when people said ultimate was a deluxe version of 4?

Yep. I do remember them being wrong.

Funny thing is, every single game is based upon the prior's data. That doesn't make it a port of any kind. Technically speaking, the closest thing to a port is the re-release of Smash 64 on the Wii VC. That's the only one we ever had(and re-releases like that might actually be the only ports of any kind we may ever get. Not that I'm against some kind of remake/updated port either).

It's not entirely clear why they made every stage from scratch either, which is a much bigger workload. It might have to do with the Stage Morph being easier to program that way. It could also be why some stages didn't return(Miiverse and Pac-Maze has no way to really have its original gimmick, not to say it's a good enough reasoning either). Also, we learned they had to rework the stages against for Steve/Alex, so... making them from scratch may have unintentionally helped make that easier. Or not affect it at all. If they're more familiar with code they made, it might've made a difference(Steve was in talks for years, so who knows what could've happened with thoughts on him. One thought I'm having is they already had an idea straight-out and that required new stage data entirely, but eventually the plans fell through for now but work was pretty much already done. Not really anything to back it up, but a fun guess).

I do wish we knew more fully on the reasoning, though maybe there's an article that details it better.

 

[Sucumbio]

Yep. I do remember them being wrong.

Funny thing is, every single game is based upon the prior's data. That doesn't make it a port of any kind. Technically speaking, the closest thing to a port is the re-release of Smash 64 on the Wii VC. That's the only one we ever had(and re-releases like that might actually be the only ports of any kind we may ever get. Not that I'm against some kind of remake/updated port either).

It's not entirely clear why they made every stage from scratch either, which is a much bigger workload. It might have to do with the Stage Morph being easier to program that way. It could also be why some stages didn't return(Miiverse and Pac-Maze has no way to really have its original gimmick, not to say it's a good enough reasoning either). Also, we learned they had to rework the stages against for Steve/Alex, so... making them from scratch may have unintentionally helped make that easier. Or not affect it at all. If they're more familiar with code they made, it might've made a difference(Steve was in talks for years, so who knows what could've happened with thoughts on him. One thought I'm having is they already had an idea straight-out and that required new stage data entirely, but eventually the plans fell through for now but work was pretty much already done. Not really anything to back it up, but a fun guess).

I do wish we knew more fully on the reasoning, though maybe there's an article that details it better.

I'm not sure we could know without more from the man himself, but at least asthetically speaking the games do seem to run into the next with brawl being the most obvious change and 4 being "smoother" and ultimate the smoothiest.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm not sure we could know without more from the man himself, but at least asthetically speaking the games do seem to run into the next with brawl being the most obvious change and 4 being "smoother" and ultimate the smoothiest.

I more meant we don't know what the deal is with the stages. We barely know beyond "they were made from scratch" with little details beyond that. Though maybe the articles slightly mentioned more?

We know the previous games are basically ported over and used as a base to start work on. Though it's not hard confirmed for every game, but I think only Melee wasn't confirmed to use any of Smash 64 as an outright base. Ultimate I don't remember if it was actually said either. Brawl used Melee, and For used Brawl was confirmed outright, though. Porting over assets of course happens all the time, but that's a different story, heh.

But yeah, porting code over(and using an old game base) is just plain easier. I do wonder how much of Smash 64 was used, though. Though I think the past stages were pretty much the same, bar having a clear graphical overhaul? Not counting Battlefield and Final Destination(which weren't even named that officially till Melee, heh). Plus, the way they handled Pokeballs is entirely different. They were background sprites in 64, but are full models ever since. Certain enemies were that way too, though I forget if Items went to full 3D compared to being 2D sprites as soon as Melee. It's been a while.

 

[Sucumbio]

I more meant we don't know what the deal is with the stages. We barely know beyond "they were made from scratch" with little details beyond that. Though maybe the articles slightly mentioned more?

We know the previous games are basically ported over and used as a base to start work on. Though it's not hard confirmed for every game, but I think only Melee wasn't confirmed to use any of Smash 64 as an outright base. Ultimate I don't remember if it was actually said either. Brawl used Melee, and For used Brawl was confirmed outright, though. Porting over assets of course happens all the time, but that's a different story, heh.

But yeah, porting code over(and using an old game base) is just plain easier. I do wonder how much of Smash 64 was used, though. Though I think the past stages were pretty much the same, bar having a clear graphical overhaul? Not counting Battlefield and Final Destination(which weren't even named that officially till Melee, heh). Plus, the way they handled Pokeballs is entirely different. They were background sprites in 64, but are full models ever since. Certain enemies were that way too, though I forget if Items went to full 3D compared to being 2D sprites as soon as Melee. It's been a while.

Yeah, there is definitely asset reuse. The engine is also revamped / tweaked but remains at its core the same (such as tripping still existing just the percentage chance is much lower compared to Brawl). Stages themselves are assets and contain assets of their own. But by remaking them from scratch suggests less an issue with compatibility with older asset use and more making it switch friendly especially in terms of foreground/background for example.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, there is definitely asset reuse. The engine is also revamped / tweaked but remains at its core the same (such as tripping still existing just the percentage chance is much lower compared to Brawl). Stages themselves are assets and contain assets of their own. But by remaking them from scratch suggests less an issue with compatibility with older asset use and more making it switch friendly especially in terms of foreground/background for example.

Or just for adding new unique stuff. Stage Morph could've been easier cause of it, heh.

Either way, I hope we get the full story(or somebody can find the article, cause I don't think I ever found it again...).

 

[Wonder Smash]

Does anybody still go to Nintendo's Famicom section?

ファミコン40周年キャンペーンサイト | 任天堂

「ファミリーコンピュータ（ファミコン）」の発売から今年で40年。当時の思い出を振り返る、ファミコン40周年キャンペーンサイトです。

www.nintendo.com

I don't know but sometimes, I just can't help but look at all the Nintendo and third-party series being shown together on their website. It's interesting to see which series Nintendo consider important to their history and also makes me think of Smash Bros.

But I also hope Nintendo would actually consider the series that are featured on their website for Smash too. It would be a shame to see series like Ninja Gaiden and River City being shown so often like the other series that already have fighters in Smash, only for them to not get the same treatment in the next Smash game.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate has arrived at #NintendoLive! Can you spot your character 👀 pic.twitter.com/TptoeP8fbn

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) September 1, 2023

Nice to see the E3 2018 props again. I wonder if the relevant ones will be used for the next game as well.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate has arrived at #NintendoLive! Can you spot your character 👀 pic.twitter.com/TptoeP8fbn

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) September 1, 2023

Nice to see the E3 2018 props again. I wonder if the relevant ones will be used for the next game as well.

Kinda weird that Bayo is the only third party with enough "Nintendo privileges" to have a prop. Wish that Sonic's shoes or Cloud's sword were there tho.

 

[CannonStreak]

Kinda weird that Bayo is the only third party with enough "Nintendo privileges" to have a prop. Wish that Sonic's shoes or Cloud's sword were there tho.

With that said, they could have done something like this.

Spoiler

See Sonic's shoes in there? Also, replace Earthworm Jim's gun with Cloud's sword there.

 

[HyperSomari64]

With that said, they could have done something like this.

Spoiler

See Sonic's shoes in there? Also, replace Earthworm Jim's gun with Cloud's sword there.

Just add Mega Man's Helmet, the Vampire Killer whip, etc, and it's perfect.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Kinda weird that Bayo is the only third party with enough "Nintendo privileges" to have a prop. Wish that Sonic's shoes or Cloud's sword were there tho.

Well, that's what happens when Nintendo owns the rights to sell certain games. Other 3rd parties aren't honorary that way(anymore in B&K's case).

 

[Sucumbio]

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate has arrived at #NintendoLive! Can you spot your character 👀 pic.twitter.com/TptoeP8fbn

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) September 1, 2023

Nice to see the E3 2018 props again. I wonder if the relevant ones will be used for the next game as well.

OMG! I want a giant sandbag now.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Well, that's what happens when Nintendo owns the rights to sell certain games. Other 3rd parties aren't honorary that way(anymore in B&K's case).

kid named "Pac-Man vs." (developed internally at Nintendo)
lol

 

[ZephyrZ]

I still think it is.

Do you think Smash 4 is just a Deluxe port of Brawl?

 

[osby]

Do you think Smash 4 is just a Deluxe port of Brawl?

I'm not gonna lie, all this talk about next Smash game potentially adding a ton of mechanical changes, characters, stages and modes while still technically being a deluxe port makes me think some people in the community don't know what a port actually is.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I don't know but sometimes, I just can't help but look at all the Nintendo and third-party series being shown together on their website. It's interesting to see which series Nintendo consider important to their history and also makes me think of Smash Bros.
View attachment 377075

Maybe it's time for another one of my patented checklists(which don't embed anymore for some reason...):

https://i.imgur.com/bcazCUA.png

https://i.imgur.com/9Addb3x.png

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Do you think Smash 4 is just a Deluxe port of Brawl?

Well no they look completely different

 

[DarthEnderX]

Okay, here's what I have so far:

https://i.imgur.com/zI4wQlG.jpg

But I need help identifying most of the unchecked franchises. I know Ninja Gaiden, Gradius, and Atlantis No Nozo.

But the rest, I don't recognize. Please let me know if you know what game they're from.

1. Man/ship in top left - ???
2. Baseball player on right - ???
3. Tiny horned man next to baseball player - ???
4. Wrestler on left - ???
5. Car at the bottom - ???
6. Ninja on frog - ???
7. Samurai on horses - ???
8. Lizard spitting kanji - ???

 

[Speed Weed]

Okay, here's what I have so far:

https://i.imgur.com/okyaJrA.jpg

But I need help identifying most of the unchecked franchises. I know Ninja Gaiden, Gradius, and Atlantis No Nozo.

But the rest, I don't recognize. Please let me know if you know what game they're from.

Twinbee, Bases Loaded, Mighty Bomb Jack, Pro Wrestling, City Connection, Ninja JaJaMaru-kun, Wagan Land and the dudes on the horses I don't entirely recognize myself

 

[Wonder Smash]

Maybe it's time for another one of my patented checklists(which don't embed anymore for some reason...):

https://i.imgur.com/bcazCUA.png

https://i.imgur.com/9Addb3x.png

Oh, you mean these?

Okay, here's what I have so far:

https://i.imgur.com/okyaJrA.jpg

But I need help identifying most of the unchecked franchises. I know Ninja Gaiden, Gradius, and Atlantis No Nozo.

But the rest, I don't recognize. Please let me know if you know what game they're from.

1. Man/ship in top left - ???
2. Baseball player on right - ???
3. Tiny horned man next to baseball player - ???
4. Wrestler on left - ???
5. Car at the bottom - ???
6. Ninja on frog - ???
7. Samurai on horses - ???
8. Lizard spitting kanji - ???

I was just thinking about whether or not you'd make a checklist of this too. lol

And yeah, was wondering about some of those.

I do know the wrestler is Fighter Hayabusa from Pro Wrestling, the baseball player from Bases Loaded, Mighty Bomb Jack next to him, and Twinbee next to Kirby but that's all I know.

 

[Megadoomer]

Kinda weird that Bayo is the only third party with enough "Nintendo privileges" to have a prop. Wish that Sonic's shoes or Cloud's sword were there tho.

It probably helps that Nintendo published and funded Bayonetta 2. (it feels like that also plays a part in why the Bayonetta 1 versions of Bayonetta and Jeanne are used in mobile game appearances like the Shin Megami Tensei mobile game or Last Cloudia, rather than any of their more recent designs)

I'm not sure how often that sort of thing happens - Pac-Man Versus was designed by Miyamoto, but it was still published (and, presumably, funded) by Namco.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

Oh, you mean these?

View attachment 377121

View attachment 377122



I was just thinking about whether or not you'd make a checklist of this too. lol

And yeah, was wondering about some of those.

I do know the wrestler is Fighter Hayabusa from Pro Wrestling, the baseball player from Bases Loaded, Mighty Bomb Jack next to him, and Twinbee next to Kirby but that's all I know.

Loosely on this:

I honestly think that if a Sunsoft character were added, I'd kind of hope they acted a little like Terry as a singular representative of a variety of media from the company as a whole - given that a lot of Sunsoft's music from their NES titles is generally well-liked, and I don't really imagine there'd be another excuse for music from Gimmick!, Journey to Silius or Ufouria otherwise. (Plus, it'd be nice to see other content like Spirits for them too.)

As for who? I'd personally opt for Jason Frudnick from the recent Blaster Master Zero series - you could always add MetaFight Kane as an alt if you wanted, plus him and SOPHIA III have a ton of potential for a moveset, and the series has had decent prominence on the Switch since its launch.

I wouldn't personally say Sunsoft is this massive gap in representation the same way that like, Taito or Atari is, but it'd be nice to see Sunsoft involved in a next Smash title in some way or another. I think it'd be cool, at least.