Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Capybara Gaming]

Garganacl and Baxcalibur feels a little redunant, both are big slow heavyweights. I think one (probably Nacl) should be swapped out for something else. Your proposed Loxix would work, but I think I would prefer something weird like Tatsugiri or Toadscruel. Overall I like the idea, but it does feel a touch arbitrary.

I would argue that Baxcalibur actually isn't as a slow as you think. It's speed stat is 82 up to 152. Garganacl can go from 36 to 95, whereas Tinkaton is 94 to 173.

 

[Geno Boost]

If there is another Pokémon trainer I would like to see Blue () or Cynthia (Spiritomb, Roserade, Garchomp) or a villain trainer instead of another regular trainer

 

[chocolatejr9]

Could Iron Valiant work in any way?

 

[fogbadge]

Could Iron Valiant work in any way?

I can’t see how it wouldn’t work

 

[PeridotGX]

I would argue that Baxcalibur actually isn't as a slow as you think. It's speed stat is 82 up to 152. Garganacl can go from 36 to 95, whereas Tinkaton is 94 to 173.

Fair enough, but Smash often ignores stats in the games to make characters work better. Mewtwo outspeeds Mewtwo in the main series, but in Smash Greninja has the advantage. Squirtle runs circles around Incineroar in smash, an amusing prospect in the main series. Hell, Ike is a lot slower in Smash than in FE It's all basically based on vibes, and Baxcalibur gives big "lumbering Titan" vibes.

 

[Sucumbio]

Could Iron Valiant work in any way?

Absolutely in fact I'd be happy with their addition.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I don’t have much to think about in terms of characters rn but in terms of music

I have a MIGHTY NEED for the Big Run battle theme from Splatoon 3 in the next Smash it is FIRE

 

[HyperSomari64]

And i want Metal Head from the Donkey Kong cartoon as part of the game's soundtrack.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I don’t have much to think about in terms of characters rn but in terms of music

I have a MIGHTY NEED for the Big Run battle theme from Splatoon 3 in the next Smash it is FIRE

Oh, how I miss the old Music For Smash Twitter account. Found a new banger everyday, it felt like...

 

[PeridotGX]

Could Iron Valiant work in any way?

The tricky thing with IV is that it's a version exclusive - adding could be interpreted as giving preferential treatment to Violet over Scarlet. That being said, for one of the first times in the series there's an easy workaround - Scream Tail as a Jigglypuff echo to satiate Scarlet players as well.

Aside from that, Iron Valiant is pretty cool

 

[Perkilator]

Aight, since we’re still talking about a franchise made by Nintendo, let’s broadly speculate about Nintendo characters.

And by that, I mean this:

Name a first party Nintendo character youd want to see in the next Super Smash Bros that wasnt in Ultimate.

— Shesez (@BoundaryBreak) January 2, 2023

 

[Quillion]

It's not going to quit anytime soon. Not when alot of the new faces are, in fact, popular in their series.

But it's not like there can't be exceptions, like Chrom, King K. Rool and to some degree, Hero.

Sure it's unlikely to quit, and that really sucks when older characters in rotating cast franchises have much more time to build and maintain their popularity over the new faces.

 

[Ivander]

Sure it's unlikely to quit, and that really sucks when older characters in rotating cast franchises have much more time to build and maintain their popularity over the new faces.

I think alot of us wish that were so...

 

[osby]

Sure it's unlikely to quit, and that really sucks when older characters in rotating cast franchises have much more time to build and maintain their popularity over the new faces.

Older characters in any franchise have more time to build popularity.

Doesn't mean they should always be prioritized, lest we have a roster of nothing but old faces.

 

[PeridotGX]

If there is another Pokémon trainer I would like to see Blue () or Cynthia (Spiritomb, Roserade, Garchomp) or a villain trainer instead of another regular trainer

An idea I've always liked is a trainer with a regional bug, bird, and rodent. Those are some of the most important "genres" of Pokemon, and they have basically nothing in Smash. My preferred lineup would probably be something like Sentret, Spidops, and Corvinight but I would be open to a lot of options.

Aight, since we’re still talking a lit a franchise made by Nintendo, let’s broadly speculate about Nintendo characters.

And by that, I mean this:

Name a first party Nintendo character youd want to see in the next Super Smash Bros that wasnt in Ultimate.

— Shesez (@BoundaryBreak) January 2, 2023

...see above. I still also want Kamek, Bandana Dee, and PMD Grovyle.

 

[Quillion]

I think alot of us wish that were so...

Older characters in any franchise have more time to build popularity.

Doesn't mean they should always be prioritized, lest we have a roster of nothing but old faces.

Hey, if they're going to recycle models and animations from now on, making it so that being in Smash is almost "immortal" (give or take fluctuating third-party licenses), maybe older characters should be a priority.

Besides, when the newer characters pass into being older characters, they'd still have a chance. No more BS like Lyn staying an AT or established marketing icons like Eevee or Garchomp not being playable.

 

[Laniv]

Aight, since we’re still talking a lit a franchise made by Nintendo, let’s broadly speculate about Nintendo characters.

And by that, I mean this:

Name a first party Nintendo character youd want to see in the next Super Smash Bros that wasnt in Ultimate.

— Shesez (@BoundaryBreak) January 2, 2023

Just one? In that case, my answer is obvious:

 

[toonito]

If there is another Pokémon trainer I would like to see Blue () or Cynthia (Spiritomb, Roserade, Garchomp) or a villain trainer instead of another regular trainer

i'd rather see Blue as a boss than playable. IMO I find another playable PT redundant.

for his boss battle he could have with type advantages on against PT. I chose those 3 pokemon as they're Blue's most prevalent grass/fire/water pokemon throughout the series

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'd like to get some reactions on a "What If" scenario.

New fighter in the next Smash: Paldean Trainer: Comes with Tinkaton, Garganacl, and Baxcalibur. Your reaction?

Any scenario where they spend 3 fighters worth of dev resources on one fighter again would infuriate me.

And i want Metal Head from the Donkey Kong cartoon as part of the game's soundtrack.

Screw that. Pirate's Scorn or nothing!

DKC: Curse of the Crystal Coconut - Animated Short

This year may have been Donkey Kong’s 40th birthday, but what a lot of people don’t know is that this wasn’t his only milestone, as this month marks the 25th...

www.youtube.com

Older characters in any franchise have more time to build popularity.

Doesn't mean they should always be prioritized, lest we have a roster of nothing but old faces.

Solution: All games should do EiH, all the time.

 

[Mamboo07]

i'd rather see Blue as a boss than playable. IMO I find another playable PT redundant.

for his boss battle he could have with type advantages on against PT. I chose those 3 pokemon as they're Blue's most prevalent grass/fire/water pokemon throughout the series

One of them are a bunch of eggs?

Bah, how easy to kill.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The frustrating part of the "they should focus on older characters" argument is it often invalidates the victories newer characters have.

Like Pyra/Mythra were a few years old when they were included. Yet they still are derided in this thread as shill picks. They had already proven themselves to be Xenoblade royalty then and are still incredibly popular in the Xenoblade community. When has a character proven themselves? When does a character just become a popular and important character worth including and not some "blatant advertising?"

Lyn was brought up as a character who has proved herself, and ya know what, I agree. But I'd argue every Fire Emblem character in the roster except Corrin has. The rest are uber popular and are from super important and well beloved games. Sure Three Houses was new when Byleth was included but it has already proven to be one of the cornerstones of the franchise. Games and characters can and do prove their worth super quickly. There is nothing wrong with celebrating the current superstars. That's part of how they become older superstars. When King K. Rool was introduced, audiences didn't just sit there and say "oh this villain is cool, but I want to see if he has staying power." They went "I like this character and I want to see more of him." Then the character appears more and people are happy. Putting newer characters in Smash is just one way of doing that. Roy and Ike are pretty much considered the old guard now, but they were included when they were very young. Same with characters like Lucas, Lucario, Inkling and... oh yeah.... Pikachu. He was effectively brand new when included.

You might argue Smash should be different but like... why? If you argue Smash is like a museum of sorts, then modern gaming history is equally as important as early gaming history. Even if I think they're (a little) overrated, I'm not gonna pretend Persona 5 isn't still affecting JRPGs or that Breath of the Wild isn't still affecting open worlds. If you argue that more popular characters should get in, then I'd say that the newer characters are still objectively popular (even Corrin who I kinda **** on earlier). If you argue that it feels corporate... well yeah. Making games is a business. Choosing Banjo and choosing Incineroar were both calculated decisions to make money. One route isn't inherently better than the other. Just because a product appeals directly to you doesn't make it better.

Why aren't you guys celebrating Chrom? He's the kind of inclusion you want, right? He maintained his popularity for 6 years until he got in. Is he somehow not old enough even though he join Smash a generation after his debut? Chrom should be a shining example that characters like Lyn are possible.

I want a lot of older characters too, but so often the argument comes off like it can't build up older characters without tearing down the new. Like an old relative complaining that foreigners are taking are jobs. Older characters should be able to stand up on their old merits. Its how "forgotten" characters like Banjo, K.Rool, Dark Samus, and Chrom got included. Their fanbases weren't demeaning newer picks (barring bad eggs). They were surviving off of passion and selling their characters. Older characters aren't being dismissed or insulted when new characters are included.

And I know this isn't going to change anything. This debate has been done so many times its reaching futility. Nothing new is being added to the conversation. It seems you're either opposed go this sort of thing or not with very little wiggle room. I really don't want to discuss this kind of thing anymore because it keeps running in circles. Let's talk about more productive (or at least funny) things.

 

[Geno Boost]

Aight, since we’re still talking a lit a franchise made by Nintendo, let’s broadly speculate about Nintendo characters.

And by that, I mean this:

Name a first party Nintendo character youd want to see in the next Super Smash Bros that wasnt in Ultimate.

— Shesez (@BoundaryBreak) January 2, 2023

Isaac, Ninten, Grovyle (PMD), Sukapon

 

[AlRex]

Aight, since we’re still talking a lit a franchise made by Nintendo, let’s broadly speculate about Nintendo characters.

And by that, I mean this:

Name a first party Nintendo character youd want to see in the next Super Smash Bros that wasnt in Ultimate.

— Shesez (@BoundaryBreak) January 2, 2023

I mostly want more new Nintendo series rather than any of the ones from already represented series. ExciteBike/Mach Rider, Advance Wars, Panel de Pon, Custom Robo, Rhythm Heaven, Sin & Punishment, StarTropics, Pro Wrestling, Style Savvy, WaveRace/1080 Snowboarding, Pillotwings, Elite Beat Agents/Ouendan, Chibi-Robo, Starfy...they don't lack for options in this regard, even. Only problem is that they don't play into the widespread hype, so you usually either just see already well-represented series get asks for their picks or the big third party requests. Only one I still see getting big requests is Isaac from Golden Sun, and even then, I doubt he'd be priority #1 amongst all character requests. But I'd prefer a Nintendo newcomer line-up of these kinds of characters way more than one that was just "Waluigi, Bandana Dee, (insert lord here), (insert starter here)", although I suspect that route a bit more.

 

[Geno Boost]

Curious who do you find more likely to be to get in smash Ayumi Tachibana or Advance wars rep? Both are nintendo franchises that have gotten revival recently

 

[Gengar84]

Any scenario where they spend 3 fighters worth of dev resources on one fighter again would infuriate me.

How about 3 fighters for one fighter’s with of dev time?

Spoiler

While I tend to favor older characters in general, I think the ideal situation is to get a good mix of both old and new. There are plenty of newer characters I also enjoy and would love to see in Smash but I don’t want to see older characters always get passed over because they may not be currently relevant.

 

[Geno Boost]

How about 3 fighters for one fighter’s with of dev time?

Spoiler

View attachment 365962

As far as new characters Vs older characters go, while I tend to favor older characters in general, I think the ideal situation is to get a good mix of both old and new. There are plenty of newer characters I also enjoy and would love to see in Smash but I don’t want to see older characters always get passed over because they may not be currently relevant.

i think the difference between battletoads and a pokemon trainer is that 3 battletoads would all share reused assets for each

 

[Gengar84]

i think the difference between battletoads and a pokemon trainer is that 3 battletoads would all share reused assets for each

Yeah, that’s what I was trying to get at. They’re kind of in the opposite boat from Pokémon Trainer. While PT takes almost as much development time as three unique characters, with the Battletoads, you essentially get three characters with just over one character’s worth of dev time (depending on how unique you want to make them). Not that I’m opposed to transform characters with unique movesets. I actually love these types of characters and would like to see more.

Alphen and Shionne from Tales of Arise and Noah and Mio from Xenoblade 3 are two examples of transform characters I think could be great. Both pairs rely on each other to utilize their full potential and compliment each other’s strengths and weaknesses (Attacker/Healer for Alphen and Shionne and Attacker/Defender for Noah and Mio). Both pairs also have unique abilities that use the other with double team attacks and flame sword with Tales and the Ouroboros fusion with Xenoblade. I can understand why some people don’t like the idea of two unrelated movesets in one like Zelda/Sheik but I think as long as the movesets play off each other or have some mechanic tying them together even if they are otherwise unique, transform characters can be even more fun.

 

[Quillion]

TBH I'd rather have Noah and Mio as totally separate characters. Aegis-style transformation is fine, but it seems like people just want them tied just to keep up the gimmicky trend.

 

[Gengar84]

TBH I'd rather have Noah and Mio as totally separate characters. Aegis-style transformation is fine, but it seems like people just want them tied just to keep up the gimmicky trend.

I feel like they are too connected both mechanically and in lore to have one without the other. True, they could just do a Robin/Chrom situation and summon the other for a final smash Ouroboros form but I don’t think that would be as interesting, personally. I don’t think Noah by himself offers a ton that would really make him stand out compared to Shulk and other sword users. Alphen stands out a bit more focusing on powerful melee attacks at the cost of damaging himself as well but I think that works even better with a ranged healer partner like Shionne.

If we were just getting one, I’d go with Mio and Shionne over their male partners since the females have more unique gameplay possibilities. I also happen to prefer the female lead in each game although I do like all four protagonists. Another alternative for Noah and Mio is to have them permanently in Ouroboros form. That would be a unique way of representing two characters without needing to use transformations or take up twice the development time.

 

[Perkilator]

TBH I'd rather have Noah and Mio as totally separate characters. Aegis-style transformation is fine, but it seems like people just want them tied just to keep up the gimmicky trend.

I think a way to do that without taking up a down special is to do what Source Gaming suggested and have the player hold down B for wither of their specials to perform Fusion Arts, and have the characters switch afterwards. You’d probably have to do a lot to keep that from being confusing, but I thought that would be a more unique take on transforming characters.

 

[Garteam]

I'd like to get some reactions on a "What If" scenario.

New fighter in the next Smash: Paldean Trainer: Comes with Tinkaton, Garganacl, and Baxcalibur. Your reaction? Would you like this trio? Would you prefer Lokix over one of them? Maybe do all four in one instead to differentiate from Red & Leaf?

This trio feels very out of nowhere. Every Pokemon we've gotten up until now has been the subject of major promotion (), a starter (), or were last minute additions that were easy to develop (). Tinkaton, Garganacl, and Baxcalibur really don't fit any of the above criteria. Swapping one of them out for Lokix doesn't fix this problem either.

Admittedly, I never really understood the Tinkaton hype beyond "lol cute Pokemon steals and assaults Corviknight for pleasure", so that might be why I'm less open to the idea. I think her inclusion alone would make a lot of people happy with this hypothetical, but it isn't for me personally. I'm rooting for Bomb Cat personally.

 

[Ivander]

Admittedly, I never really understood the Tinkaton hype beyond "lol cute Pokemon steals and assaults Corviknight for pleasure", so that might be why I'm less open to the idea.

I think it's less bully and more, "cute thing wielding a giant frickin' hammer". Which is not an uncommon trope and is popular in it's own right. And by what I heard, Tinkaton is ironically not good against Corviknight gameplay-wise, meaning it can get bullied by Corviknight.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'd like to get some reactions on a "What If" scenario.

New fighter in the next Smash: Paldean Trainer: Comes with Tinkaton, Garganacl, and Baxcalibur. Your reaction? Would you like this trio? Would you prefer Lokix over one of them? Maybe do all four in one instead to differentiate from Red & Leaf?

Extremely whelmed. Those Pokemon are cool, but those just seem like a list of personal favorites. What made Pokemon Trainer so special was that you could play as some of the most popular evolutionary lines in Pokemon history.

This list feels arbitrary and likes its grasping for straws.

 

[Quillion]

I feel like they are too connected both mechanically and in lore to have one without the other. True, they could just do a Robin/Chrom situation and summon the other for a final smash Ouroboros form but I don’t think that would be as interesting, personally. I don’t think Noah by himself offers a ton that would really make him stand out compared to Shulk and other sword users. Alphen stands out a bit more focusing on powerful attacks at the cost of damaging himself as well but I think that works even better with a healer partner like Shionne.

If we were just getting one, I’d go with Mio and Shionne over their male partners since the females have more unique gameplay possibilities. I also happen to prefer the female lead in each game although I do like all four protagonists.

Noah can be a clone while Mio is a full new character then. No need to tie them, and Noah is there while saving resources.

 

[Gengar84]

Noah can be a clone while Mio is a full new character then. No need to tie them, and Noah is there while saving resources.

There isn’t really a NEED to tie them, I personally just prefer them that way. For me, it makes the characters twice as fun to play since I have more options. It’s also fun to see how the two movesets might work together and compliment each other’s styles. I’ve always really enjoyed transform characters and I’d love to see more where they make sense. I understand that everyone has their own preferences and might not feel the same way and that’s fine too.

 

[Oracle Link]

SO On the Whole one nintendo Fighter thing ooh thats difficult?
So While i want Vaati I dont think i want him to be the only zelda newcomer HMMM!
I Guess Yeah Dark Matter Orb from Kirby! Kirby Deserves some more Respect and considering That we just finnished the Dark Matter Saga In Kirby it just fits!
Also like 90% Of Kirby Villains are Orbs and DM Is One of the best for a fighting game!

 

[Quillion]

There isn’t really a NEED to tie them, I personally just prefer them that way. For me, it makes the characters twice as fun to play since I have more options. It’s also fun to see how the two movesets might work together and compliment each other’s styles. I’ve always really enjoyed transform characters and I’d love to see more where they make sense. I understand that everyone has their own preferences and might not feel the same way and that’s fine too.

Didn't they try that with Diddy and Dixie circa Brawl? I don't think it will work now.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

SO On the Whole one nintendo Fighter thing ooh thats difficult?
So While i want Vaati I dont think i want him to be the only zelda newcomer HMMM!
I Guess Yeah Dark Matter Orb from Kirby! Kirby Deserves some more Respect and considering That we just finnished the Dark Matter Saga In Kirby it just fits!
Also like 90% Of Kirby Villains are Orbs and DM Is One of the best for a fighting game!

Skull Kid is the only deserving LoZ villain rep.

 

[Gengar84]

Didn't they try that with Diddy and Dixie circa Brawl? I don't think it will work now.

I don’t see any reason why it couldn’t work now. Technology has advanced a lot since Brawl so I imagine a lot more is possible these days. We already have Ice Climbers, Pokémon Trainer, and Pyra/Mythra so I don’t see what the issue could be. The only potential issue Sakurai brought up is another Ice Climber style character with much more complex models (referencing the barriers to getting a Rex and Pyra duo). DKC is another example where I’d love to see a tag duo with Dixie and Kiddy. I’d have personally preferred Diddy/Dixie but I think it’s too late for that.

Dixie/Kiddy, Noah/Mio, and Alphen/Shionne wouldn’t really play like Ice Climbers but more like typical transform characters that have some double team attacks for some specials. We already have Robin summon Chrom and Pyra summon Rex for a Final Smash so there shouldn’t be a problem doing the same for a special or two.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

A bit late but yeah, happy new year SmashBoards.

Another year, Another round of speculation

I personally adore both Super Mario RPG and DKC's aesthetics. In the case of the latter, while its visual style works best on CRT's when I played through the trilogy in handheld mode on Switch last year, they all still looked great. An HD remake that made it widescreen while smoothing out the models for modern TVs would be great.

With the former I think a change to its visuals would be to the game's detriment, because the weirdness and the (for lack of a better term) tangibility of the style is somewhat the point. Its a game living and breathing its status as an out there Nintendo and Squaresoft collaboration and in my estimation it balances the outworldly nature of the fantasy world with the charm of traditional Mario tropes. I really like Paper Mario's presentation, but the storybook aspects there made sense given the kind of stories and tones most of those games went for. Mario RPG stands out because (like the DKC games) of their contrast versus so many of the typical SMB releases. Most Mario game settings felt fun; Seven Stars and Donkey Kong Country felt real.

Honestly couldn't agree more especially now of the recent playthrough of SMRPG. The game still looks great even today and for what it was back at 1996 literal days before the 64 was impressive. People calling it ugly haven't played it in a while or at all.

I'm not a big fan of PM aesthetic at all (this goes for all games, not the modern ones), They are step down from SMRPG and even M&L.

If there was a SMRPG rerelease, i would probaby prefer in the M&L DS style or just an update style of the original. Remakes/Reimagined have a habit of always losing the charm of originals especially gaming.

A simple update that doesn't much at all from the original would be best.