Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Quillion]

Daisy is a godawful Echo and not a good standard for making anyone an Echo.

Eh, I'm fine with an echo's differences amounting to different idles and taunts. Would it be nice if alts in general had that luxury? Sure. But I'm still okay with the line as it is now since they're different characters anyway. I know it's good to place value on function and all, but there's a thing as going too far. There's also a thing as going too far in the opposite direction.

I'll still say that I want OoT/TP Link as a clone or echo of current BotW Link, but I wouldn't want the same for OoT/TP Zelda of current ALttP/ALBW Zelda (unless we get a new "alts can have different idles and taunts" rule).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Eh, I'm fine with an echo's differences amounting to different idles and taunts. Would it be nice if alts in general had that luxury? Sure. But I'm still okay with the line as it is now since they're different characters anyway. I know it's good to place value on function and all, but there's a thing as going too far. There's also a thing as going too far in the opposite direction.

I'll still say that I want OoT/TP Link as a clone or echo of current BotW Link, but I wouldn't want the same for OoT/TP Zelda of current ALttP/ALBW Zelda (unless we get a new "alts can have different idles and taunts" rule).

Calling it just idle and taunts misses the point. The point was that said idles and taunts had no impact whatsoever and the slightly unique hurtboxes barely anyone is aware they exist. That's why she's a terrible example. You are taking the time to make a different character that requires extra data and new animations. There's no reason she couldn't have been a tad more different when all the tools are there.

It's bad enough she had the Toads(you can forgive Neutral B, at least. Cause, you know, it's kind of hard to replace that. But the throws? She could've used Peach's old ones just as easily). You can't really replace the float without overhauling her aerials, which goes more into clone territory than echo status. Besides, the fact they used custom equipment to make Dr. Mario different from Mario in general shows they've done it before.

That said, the idea of other classic playstyles for Link would be neat. Young Link just doesn't cover it. As long as they're made to actually change the playstyle, sweet. To say the least, people want Richter or Simon changed up more, same with Dark Samus. Dark Pit, Lucina, Chrom, and Ken are more than different enough on their own. ...With only Ken feeling super different, heh.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Its kind of pity that Daisy didn't come about during the more out there era of Smash movesets. Her using elements from Mario Land 1 like diagonal bouncing superballs and exploding Koopas wouldn't have technically made sense, but would have been fun.

 

[Quillion]

Its kind of pity that Daisy didn't come about during the more out there era of Smash movesets. Her using elements from Mario Land 1 like diagonal bouncing superballs and exploding Koopas wouldn't have technically made sense, but would have been fun.

Why would you call the 64-Brawl era of moveset design more "out there"?

Frankly I'd call the Smash 4-on era "out there" because they over-prioritize recreating mechanics from their home games rather than balance that with established Smash design.

 

[dream1ng]

It's also not like we'd even have Daisy at all were she not a clone.

 

[SPEN18]

Traditionally I was always ok with just Olimar as the sole Pikmin rep. Rn I think it makes sense to just wait until Pikmin 4 to see if we should seriously look at a second rep, Echo or otherwise.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It would've been neat if Daisy was an actual Clone, admittedly. Cause her different Echo status at the end of the day was handled poorly. Not terribly great for two other Echoes. But the other four are nice~

Thankfully the Clones(and Semi-Clones) are a bit more unique in many different ways.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Honestly, I kinda wish they at least made Daisy's Final Smash a Strikers reference. Then again, Mario Strikers was dead at the time, so I can't really blame them...

 

[Perkilator]

At the very least, Daisy’s Side B should’ve been Flower Bomber, one of Peach’s custom moves in Sm4sh. Heck, most of the Echoes pre-Ken would’ve benefitted from using their parent characters’ custom moves to make up for that feature not coming back in Ultimate (among other things, in Dark Samus’ case).

 

[Laniv]

At the very least, Daisy’s Side B should’ve been Flower Bomber, one of Peach’s custom moves in Sm4sh. Heck, most of the Echoes pre-Ken would’ve benefitted from using their parent characters’ custom moves to make up for that feature not coming back in Ultimate (among other things, in Dark Samus’ case).

You could probably make Bass or Proto Man or even Roll into a decent Mega Man echo with his customs

 

[Stratos]

What about Bulbmin?

Yes that too, but I write about new Pikmin.

 

[Aligo]

You could probably make Bass or Proto Man or even Roll into a decent Mega Man echo with his customs

Wouldn't proto man be at the very least a ken styled echo due to his shield? Every character with one has it incorporated into their playstyle in some way.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Wouldn't proto man be at the very least a ken styled echo due to his shield? Every character with one has it incorporated into their playstyle in some way.

It also depends if said Shield is fully part of his model or just a piece that doesn't do anything outside of being used as a move. Cause if his entire bodyshape is considered different with that, he wouldn't be an Echo. It entirely depends upon the direction given.

Bass and MegaMan are pretty much the same otherwise. Roll's an odd one. I don't think she's really the same bodyshape, but easily can use his moves. She seems like a case of a clone/semi-clone, akin to Isabelle, but only if her bodyshape is different.

 

[Opossum]

I don't find it strange or problematic that FE has no villain rep. The series has like 20 characters who could feasibly be called a "main protagonist," and they're more diverse than many people give them credit for.

Late on this, but this is essentially where I'm at as well.

Like, contrary to what a lot of people seem to think, the main lords of each game tend to be those games' most popular characters. As well, often times the villains are among each game's least popular characters, at least for the main villains. To allocate a slot specifically for a Fire Emblem villain, they'd not only need to be feasibly chosen over or alongside the game's more popular protagonist, but also be popular enough in their own right to warrant.

Black Knight, Arvis, Edelgard if you count her despite her also being a protagonist, and Veronica if you want to stretch the villain definition to Meta Knight levels of "yeah I guess you were an antagonist once" are pretty much the only Fire Emblem antagonists to even be able to do this. I'd count Rhea as well, but there's zero chance they'd ever go for her over one of the House Leaders, and especially not before Edelgard.

And even then they come with their own issues. Black Knight would need to be justified as having over Micaiah, who is more popular and a main protagonist. Arvis would need to be justified over both Sigurd and Seliph (which may be done through the complications of fighting on horseback), but would also need to be justified over Julia, who gets a lot of love from IS. Veronica would also need to be justified over Alfonse and Sharena, who are also popular in their own right. Edelgard would rely on them picking a second Three Houses character in, presumably, a post-Engage world.

It says a lot when most of the actually popular side characters, never mind main characters, have been playable in Fire Emblem Heroes for years, when on the main villain side, folks like Jedah, Raydrik, Nergal, Validar, Anankos, and Thales are still MIA when Heroes is about to celebrate its sixth anniversary next month.

 

[Troykv]

Late on this, but this is essentially where I'm at as well.

Like, contrary to what a lot of people seem to think, the main lords of each game tend to be those games' most popular characters. As well, often times the villains are among each game's least popular characters, at least for the main villains. To allocate a slot specifically for a Fire Emblem villain, they'd not only need to be feasibly chosen over or alongside the game's more popular protagonist, but also be popular enough in their own right to warrant.

Black Knight, Arvis, Edelgard if you count her despite her also being a protagonist, and Veronica if you want to stretch the villain definition to Meta Knight levels of "yeah I guess you were an antagonist once" are pretty much the only Fire Emblem antagonists to even be able to do this. I'd count Rhea as well, but there's zero chance they'd ever go for her over one of the House Leaders, and especially not before Edelgard.

And even then they come with their own issues. Black Knight would need to be justified as having over Micaiah, who is more popular and a main protagonist. Arvis would need to be justified over both Sigurd and Seliph (which may be done through the complications of fighting on horseback), but would also need to be justified over Julia, who gets a lot of love from IS. Veronica would also need to be justified over Alfonse and Sharena, who are also popular in their own right. Edelgard would rely on them picking a second Three Houses character in, presumably, a post-Engage world.

It says a lot when most of the actually popular side characters, never mind main characters, have been playable in Fire Emblem Heroes for years, when on the main villain side, folks like Jedah, Raydrik, Nergal, Validar, Anankos, and Thales are still MIA when Heroes is about to celebrate its sixth anniversary next month.

Well, that is basically the reason why Black Knight is ocasionally mentioned as a potential Smash Character, he's basically the one popular villain that FE has, I'm sure some people would be insane enough to believe that he's more popular than Miccy.

Thales

To be fair with Thales he has only appeared in games since 2019 compared with the rest than are actually older than Heroes the game, and he probably actually has a chance considering how Heroes already gave us all the other major enemies, included the other ugly looking wizard.

 

[Geno Boost]

does anyone find it strange that despite Hal involvement in all Smash games there isnt any Eggerland content in smash yet?
like Lolo & Lala

do you think there might be a reason?
i know they count as 3rd party content but still Hal has always been part of every smash game

 

[fogbadge]

does anyone find it strange that despite Hal involvement in all Smash games there isnt any Eggerland content in smash yet?
like Lolo & Lala

do you think there might be a reason?
i know they count as 3rd party content but still Hal has always been part of every smash game

I would guess Hal doesn’t have to much say

 

[Wonder Smash]

does anyone find it strange that despite Hal involvement in all Smash games there isnt any Eggerland content in smash yet?

do you think there might be a reason?
i know they count as 3rd party content but still Hal has always been part of every smash game

If they're technically 3rd party characters, then that just might be the reason why. Couple that with them possibly not being much of a popular pick and probably not that big outside of Japan, then all of that might explain why.

But on the bright side, that does bring up an interesting idea for more Kirby reps, seeing as Lololo and Lalala are based on those characters.

 

[Oracle Link]

does anyone find it strange that despite Hal involvement in all Smash games there isnt any Eggerland content in smash yet?
like Lolo & Lala

do you think there might be a reason?
i know they count as 3rd party content but still Hal has always been part of every smash game

I dont know i think nowadays Lolo(lo) and Lala(La) Count more as extremly niche Kirby Reps at that is their Most Iconic Appearnces BUT I might add them to the Handy Dandy Kirby Newcomer List! as someone who has played eggerland do you think that makes sense?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

does anyone find it strange that despite Hal involvement in all Smash games there isnt any Eggerland content in smash yet?
like Lolo & Lala

do you think there might be a reason?
i know they count as 3rd party content but still Hal has always been part of every smash game

No I don't find it strange. Those games are way past their heyday.

 

[Quillion]

does anyone find it strange that despite Hal involvement in all Smash games there isnt any Eggerland content in smash yet?
like Lolo & Lala

do you think there might be a reason?
i know they count as 3rd party content but still Hal has always been part of every smash game

I'm pretty sure HAL is only credited for making certain IPs in Smash while they haven't developed a Smash game directly since Melee.

Still, it does feel like 64/Melee had more respect for the lesser-known than current Smash, so I'll give them that.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Bandai Namco looking to hire more staff for a 3D action game in collab with Nintendo https://t.co/XzXajbzpEh pic.twitter.com/4HLgQSK0IS

— GoNintendoTweet (@GoNintendoTweet) January 2, 2023

This is the second time Bandai Namco started hiring for a Nintendo collab, right? I don't wanna rush things, but we usually get a Nintendo Direct in February, so I wonder if that's when we'll see what this is.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Bandai Namco looking to hire more staff for a 3D action game in collab with Nintendo https://t.co/XzXajbzpEh pic.twitter.com/4HLgQSK0IS

— GoNintendoTweet (@GoNintendoTweet) January 2, 2023

This is the second time Bandai Namco started hiring for a Nintendo collab, right? I don't wanna rush things, but we usually get a Nintendo Direct in February, so I wonder if that's when we'll see what this is.

Federation Force 2
LET'S GOOOO!!

 

[DarthEnderX]

You know it's only Pokken 2...

Gotta add Quaquaval somehow...

 

[Quillion]

Are fighters really included in the "3D Action" umbrella?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Are fighters really included in the "3D Action" umbrella?

If it's a 3d fighter, sure.

 

[Perkilator]

Source Gaming did a Dream Smasher article for Noah & Mio.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Source Gaming did a Dream Smasher article for Noah & Mio.

Just in time for me to start playing XC3!

Wait, are they spying on me?

 

[Quillion]

Still hoping they entirely quit the "new face from rotating cast franchise" trend. It's just not going to be good to sustain it in the long run.

 

[fogbadge]

Just in time for me to start playing XC3!

Wait, are they spying on me?

No but I am

 

[Geno Boost]

I dont know i think nowadays Lolo(lo) and Lala(La) Count more as extremly niche Kirby Reps at that is their Most Iconic Appearnces BUT I might add them to the Handy Dandy Kirby Newcomer List! as someone who has played eggerland do you think that makes sense?

yeah that would be cool i think Trax would be funny also

 

[Ivander]

Still hoping they entirely quit the "new face from rotating cast franchise" trend. It's just not going to be good to sustain it in the long run.

It's not going to quit anytime soon. Not when alot of the new faces are, in fact, popular in their series.

But it's not like there can't be exceptions, like Chrom, King K. Rool and to some degree, Hero.

 

[Oracle Link]

SO i saw a person arguing over a Zelda Echo? WTF smash/ ALTTP Zelda is generic enough to be every Zelda and honestly we dont need a third Adult Zelda Cloging up roster Space unless she gets a playable role with a vastly diffrent Moveset!
I mean i think Tetra and Ghost Zelda or heck regular toon zelda is just much more appealing also smash lacks young girls IMO!
Also when it comes to Link you could just make the base Moveset and Taunts Generic and give him Alts for OOT/TP and BOTW! His Differing Voices and Weapon Designs would be enough to keep the Skins Unique!

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I'd like to get some reactions on a "What If" scenario.

New fighter in the next Smash: Paldean Trainer: Comes with Tinkaton, Garganacl, and Baxcalibur. Your reaction? Would you like this trio? Would you prefer Lokix over one of them? Maybe do all four in one instead to differentiate from Red & Leaf?

 

[Geno Boost]

I'd like to get some reactions on a "What If" scenario.

New fighter in the next Smash: Paldean Trainer: Comes with Tinkaton, Garganacl, and Baxcalibur. Your reaction? Would you like this trio? Would you prefer Lokix over one of them? Maybe do all four in one instead to differentiate from Red & Leaf?

Tinkaton is cool but i dont want another pokemon trainer because it will take 3 extra slots

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Tinkaton is cool but i dont want another pokemon trainer because it will take 3 extra slots

Ignore the slot thing. Let's be hypothetical and say it's got extra time in the oven so it doesn't take anyone else's spot

 

[Zerp]

I'd like to get some reactions on a "What If" scenario.

New fighter in the next Smash: Paldean Trainer: Comes with Tinkaton, Garganacl, and Baxcalibur. Your reaction? Would you like this trio? Would you prefer Lokix over one of them? Maybe do all four in one instead to differentiate from Red & Leaf?

Tinkaton alone makes this worth it for me, I'd like this a lot. I would also prefer them over Lokix personally. Although yeah, making it a four-in-one would be cool too. The only bad thing is I can already hear people whining about having to learn 4 different match-ups for one character

 

[Gengar84]

Tinkaton alone makes this worth it for me, I'd like this a lot. I would also prefer them over Lokix personally. Although yeah, making it a four-in-one would be cool too. The only bad thing is I can already hear people whining about having to learn 4 different match-ups for one character

My favorites are Lokix, Ceruledge, Great Tusk, Koraidon, and Miraidon. I’d be happy to see any of these make it in. There are others I like as well like Annihalape, Aromorogue, and Tinkaton that would be cool too.

 

[Aligo]

It would be interesting as 2 if the 3 would be heavies, and tinkaton would be a middleweight.

 

[PeridotGX]

I'd like to get some reactions on a "What If" scenario.

New fighter in the next Smash: Paldean Trainer: Comes with Tinkaton, Garganacl, and Baxcalibur. Your reaction? Would you like this trio? Would you prefer Lokix over one of them? Maybe do all four in one instead to differentiate from Red & Leaf?

Garganacl and Baxcalibur feels a little redunant, both are big slow heavyweights. I think one (probably Nacl) should be swapped out for something else. Your proposed Loxix would work, but I think I would prefer something weird like Tatsugiri or Toadscruel. Overall I like the idea, but it does feel a touch arbitrary.