Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[chocolatejr9]

Eternal Champions always struck me as one of those series that could have become something significant had they done more with it, but it was basically cut off after the 1 and half core games (and one unwanted spin-off) it got and was basically left as one of various 4th gen IP's that never really popped up again.

I almost wonder if it's resurrection as a film project is more because the concept (different people are plucked from various historical periods and fight each other) just makes for an easy elevator pitch.

Correction: it had TWO unwanted spinoffs.

But yeah, considering it was one of the few Mortal Kombat clones to NOT be a one-off type of game, I think it's safe to say it was at least somewhat notable. I think there were even plans for a third game that got cancelled after Virtua Fighter was brought over to the west or something like that. Sega of America and Sega of Japan had a bit of a... complicated relationship.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Issues between SoJ and SoA aside (as that is its own rabbit hole) I'm curious if it was a case of enough prominent people at Sega simply not seeing long term vitality in a 2D fighter series at that point. Virtua Fighter got so big in Japan so quick that there might have been a sentiment that 3D was the future, and that resources/time were better spent in that field. Whether or not a supported Eternal Champions would have survived that post-arcade, pre-net play era that many traditional fighting games struggled in circa the aughts, I don't know, but the core idea was one you could take a lot of places at least conceptually.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Virtua Fighter got so big in Japan so quick that there might have been a sentiment that 3D was the future

This legitimately happened.

Don't mind how this video's title and a lot of its content seems to be stirring a VF vs. Tekken pot, it covers how much VF made the game industry want to invest in 3D gaming.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

This legitimately happened.

Don't mind how this video's title and a lot of its content seems to be stirring a VF vs. Tekken pot, it covers how much VF made the game industry want to invest in 3D gaming.

Yeah I've read the practicality of 3D graphics with Virtua Fighter was a wake up to a lot of people in the industry, and given how much the 5th gen was moved forward by that? A feeling that pushing Eternal Champions would be effort spent on a now outdated paradigm? It would make complete sense.

 

[ninjahmos]

If Akira ever gets in with a new remix of Ride The Tiger, it should include a voice clip of him saying "Juunen hayain dayo!"

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If Akira ever gets in with a new remix of Ride The Tiger, it should include a voice clip of him saying "Juunen hayain dayo!"

No need because Akira himself will have the voice clip in his moveset.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

No need because Akira himself will have the voice clip in his moveset.

Doesn't Bayonetta already say that every once in a while during I wanna say Forward Throw? lol

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Doesn't Bayonetta already say that every once in a while during I wanna say Forward Throw? lol

Yes. It's called an easter egg and she actually says it in her games too sometimes. This is a deliberate reference to Virtua Fighter.

 

[DarthEnderX]

As incredibly unlikely as it would be, a Ryu Hayabusa/Joe Musashi/Strider Hiryu dual Smash reveal would be one of the craziest surprise announcements ever.

Fixed.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Fixed.

You forgot to fix the "dual" though, thus making it incorrect.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

You forgot to fix the "dual" though, thus making it incorrect.

Nah. Two of these are the same person and we have to figure out which ones

 

[HyperSomari64]

Atari 50 DLC Pack 2 drops today

Man, why Color TV-Game 6 is the closest thing to Atari representation?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Man, why Color TV-Game 6 is the closest thing to Atari representation?

Probably because their hardware is more iconic than their games.

 

[dezeray112]

So, to distract myself from... whatever the hell is happening right now. I figured this was interesting.

Sega announced (in an interview) that they do indeed have a new Virtua Fighter game in the works. Again, it's only in text, and it's pretty much been an open secret for a while now, but hey.

I think it's pretty expected that we might get at least a few more fighting game reps next go around. With this, what do you all think are the chances of a VF rep making it in? Sakurai clearly has a lot of respect for the series seeing that it's gotten content in Smash 4 and Ultimate, and it has more than enough of a legacy within the industry to justify its inclusion. I guess the main hurdles are implementation (considering how difficult it was to include a Tekken character) and Sega already having a bunch of characters vying for spots.

To be fair, it has been a long while since Virtua Fighter's last entry and I am eager to see what the newest entry in which I am sure we will find out eventually within the future.

In terms of newer fighting game reps, whilst I do predict that the likes of Chun-Li and maybe Rock Howard or Mai Shiranui are likely newcomer candidates whilst I would not possibly rule out another newcomer from the Tekken franchise.

The only new fighting game franchise that I can possibly see getting a new rep would possibly be someone from the Guilty Gear franchise.

Correction: it had TWO unwanted spinoffs.

But yeah, considering it was one of the few Mortal Kombat clones to NOT be a one-off type of game, I think it's safe to say it was at least somewhat notable. I think there were even plans for a third game that got cancelled after Virtua Fighter was brought over to the west or something like that. Sega of America and Sega of Japan had a bit of a... complicated relationship.

Those two spinoffs I believe were based upon two of its characters, Larcen Tyler and Shadow Yamato which those two games were not very well received.

I believe Matt McMuscles actually covered a video based on the situation of the Eternal Champions too.

I also do recall that the late Michael Latham did made an attempt to revive the franchise dubbed the "Eternal Successors" which did not went forward in the end many years ago. But you can find pieces of the concept/illustrations for that here which is ran by Adam Starcaster.

As for the film, I will say that it is a rather bold decision by SEGA to give a film to a fighting game that hasn't had a new entry for a long while, even though Eternal Champions does have a rather interesting story concept.

 

[BuckleyTim]

Probably because their hardware is more iconic than their games.

We gotta believe in the Klax assist trophy

 

[HyperSomari64]

We gotta believe in the Klax assist trophy

Isn't Klax owned by Warner Bros.?
Well, after Midway went downhill and sold their franchises

 

[Oracle Link]

So i think i'll just put this here!
(if theres an official meme/ Lil Comic thread tell me)

Spoiler: Some extra info and credit

Why did i draw this instead of zelda? I like Link more Thats why! It The Real And Fake Link HAving the iconic SA 2 Exchange (albeit quietly cause poor EOW Link is ACTUALLY Mute!) also ive only finnished the first and gerudo dungeon so the fake link is based on phase 2 from the first two fights with him!

Besides SA 2 this picture by Shark Guy 1 served as inspiration!

 

[Speed Weed]

On the topic of Eternal Champions getting killed off - the usual narrative is that SoJ killed it so Virtua Fighter wouldn't have competition, and I don't know how much I believe that considering SEGA would later go on to put out several other fighting games that are also much closer to VF. The explanation that usually comes from that, "well Eternal Champions died specifically because SoJ hated/was jealous of/was biased against/just plain didn't get along with SoA" also doesn't hold much water considering that's a narrative that's been refuted by multiple accounts - there's absolutely some truth to the idea that they weren't always the best at communication, but the extent to which they actually had it in for each other is often pushed to the point of exaggeration by, like, one or two accounts that people choose to put all their stock in because of the pedigree of who's saying it (exclusively from the American side too).

If we want to figure out why this might've happened otherwise, I feel some context is key - around the time that this new EC game would have been being made, SEGA of America was horribly mismanaged and taking severe financial nosedives. Like, bleeding money, accumulating tons of unsold stock, on-the-verge-of-bankruptcy levels. It's generally believed from more recent accounts that this was when, after a period of just kinda letting them do whatever, SoJ came in to sort of clean house and reign things in, eventually leading to Kalinske leaving his position. It's possible that, during all this mess, the game might have slipped through the cracks, or they might've put the kibosh on it because they felt that SoA was genuinely not in a state to even make it at that point. Who knows.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Probably because their hardware is more iconic than their games.

That's not entirely true. Everyone remembers E.T.

 

[Borskaboska]

all the sega talk is reminding me just how much I would kill for a sega version of smash bros. They dont have as many brands that have modern day popularity like nintendo does, but all their characters have such unique aesthetics and abilities that pretty much any roster use choose would be great. I followed the Sega Battle of Ages discussion back when it was more active.
My bias-pick for a character that would never happen in this hypothetical game that would never happen is the one boss from Revenge of Shinobi, who is a shapeshifter who uses his powers exclusively to look like Spiderman and then Batman. In the international release they had to change his appearance, so he became a pink ninja guy that turns into a flying bat winged demon, so i think there is a legally sound version of this character you could use. Just have him shoot webs and cling to walls and for his final smash he summons the giant skeletal godzilla.

 

[Wonder Smash]

all the sega talk is reminding me just how much I would kill for a sega version of smash bros. They dont have as many brands that have modern day popularity like nintendo does, but all their characters have such unique aesthetics and abilities that pretty much any roster use choose would be great. I followed the Sega Battle of Ages discussion back when it was more active.
My bias-pick for a character that would never happen in this hypothetical game that would never happen is the one boss from Revenge of Shinobi, who is a shapeshifter who uses his powers exclusively to look like Spiderman and then Batman. In the international release they had to change his appearance, so he became a pink ninja guy that turns into a flying bat winged demon, so i think there is a legally sound version of this character you could use. Just have him shoot webs and cling to walls and for his final smash he summons the giant skeletal godzilla.

I'm not sure about SEGA not having as many modern day popular brands as Nintendo's. Aside from Sonic, Yakuza/Like A Dragon, Super Monkey Ball, there's also Persona (thanks to Atlus), and now Angry Birds (thanks to Rovio). Plus, a lot of their other older IPs have either gotten new installments or getting some new ones.

As for the SEGA version of Smash Bros, yeah, I've been interested in that idea myself. I would never say never. They made Fighters Megamix (which pretty much was their Smash Bros) and has been making all these other crossover games. So who knows? They just make another crossover fighting game. We just gotta hoping and requesting.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Gotta say, Sega has gathered up a nice variety of IPs (partly due to Atlus). And even if they're not all big in the modern day, there's a handful that are still continuously successful.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Atari 50 DLC Pack 2 drops today

Man, why Color TV-Game 6 is the closest thing to Atari representation?

Erm actually it's Color TV-Game 15....

 

[BritishGuy54]

So… what’s everyone’s stance on QTEs (Quick Time Events)?

Should they be introduced in a new game for Final Smashes as a middle ground between cutscenes and transformations?

 

[Opossum]

So… what’s everyone’s stance on QTEs (Quick Time Events)?

Should they be introduced in a new game for Final Smashes as a middle ground between cutscenes and transformations?

Given how awful Nintendo online has historically been...I don't think there needs to be a middle ground. Just make them like they were in Ultimate.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

As far as Sega removing games from various platforms, is it nutty to suggest that they might be setting up their own online/store service for a lot of these?

I don't think its necessarily the best option, nor I am I certain Sega has the sort of specific online infrastructure for it, but given the sheer volume of titles, its the thing that keeps coming to mind for me.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

So… what’s everyone’s stance on QTEs (Quick Time Events)?

Should they be introduced in a new game for Final Smashes as a middle ground between cutscenes and transformations?

I'll stand with Opo here because the only way these could functionally work online is if they're so lenient that they don't even matter and at this point, maybe just don't do them...

Smash's own innate input delay could also make them abysmal if they keep making it like 10 frames long so even offline they'd feel like ****.

 

[Idon]

So… what’s everyone’s stance on QTEs (Quick Time Events)?

Should they be introduced in a new game for Final Smashes as a middle ground between cutscenes and transformations?

Can we just let cool moves be cool moves for christ's sake.

Like not every single thing in the universe needs to be Mario and Luigi timing minigames.

 

[Guynamednelson]

As far as Sega removing games from various platforms, is nutty to suggest that they might be setting up there own online/store service for a lot of these?

I don't think its necessarily the best option, nor I am I certain Sega has the sort of specific online infrastructure for it, but given the sheer volume of titles, its the thing that keeps coming to mind for me.

I would say it's a bad idea, but this is Sega we're talking about. Of course they're going to do something that sounds like a bad idea.

 

[DarthEnderX]

So… what’s everyone’s stance on QTEs (Quick Time Events)?

Should they be introduced in a new game for Final Smashes as a middle ground between cutscenes and transformations?

Fine for some games. Not a good idea for fighting games.

 

[Speed Weed]

As far as Sega removing games from various platforms, is it nutty to suggest that they might be setting up their own online/store service for a lot of these?

I don't think its necessarily the best option, nor I am I certain Sega has the sort of specific online infrastructure for it, but given the sheer volume of titles, its the thing that keeps coming to mind for me.

I.....hm. It's definitely not impossible to sell me on this idea but I'm not huge on it on paper. Just kinda not really sure how to formulate my thoughts here. I do think it'd track with SEGA's apparent current initiative of treating their old IPs as if they were bigger than they actually are, but I don't know. Tbh I'm not even sure how I would approach a new SEGA reissue line at this point

 

[AlRex]

On Atari, I’d love Yorgle from Adventure getting in as a sort of Atari version of Mr. Game & Watch. Alternatively, Centipede could be an interesting unconventional fighter with its body type, ability to split, summon bugs and poisonous mushrooms…

 

[Gorgonzales]

So… what’s everyone’s stance on QTEs (Quick Time Events)?

Should they be introduced in a new game for Final Smashes as a middle ground between cutscenes and transformations?

I just want transformations back.

 

[RykZyk]

Hi folks! Since i'm planning to do some moveset concept ideas for some characters in the future, here's a little topic for debate:

Do you prefer movesets that are full of references, or more practical movesets that have some attacks that the characters don't do in their game of origin?
I'm honestly kind of more inclined on the practical side, at the end of the day Smash Bros. is a fast paced game where attacks pass by so quickly that honestly i don't think that movesets should be fully referencial.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Do you prefer movesets that are full of references, or more practical movesets that have some attacks that the characters don't do in their game of origin?
I'm honestly kind of more inclined on the practical side, at the end of the day Smash Bros. is a fast paced game where attacks pass by so quickly that honestly i don't think that movesets should be fully referencial.

As long as everything is cohesive, fits with an overall design and doesn't feel bloated, either option can really work, though it's really a case-by-case basis.

For example, characters from combat-centric games (so things like fighting games or hack-and-slash) SHOULD have as many moves as possible be from their actual moveset in the source material because duh. They already have something perfectly designed for fast-paced combat, after all.

But then you have someone like Joker who only has a handful of attack animations in Persona 5, giving you only two options to fill gaps; either fully committing to him being a Wild Card and having every attack use a different Persona which would make the moveset bloated but also add way too much work... or coming up with wildly acrobatic stuff that doesn't have any origin but does look cool so that the entire moveset keeps the vibe of the few animations he actually has in P5's combat as well as make him even more like a thief.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Hi folks! Since i'm planning to do some moveset concept ideas for some characters in the future, here's a little topic for debate:

Do you prefer movesets that are full of references, or more practical movesets that have some attacks that the characters don't do in their game of origin?
I'm honestly kind of more inclined on the practical side, at the end of the day Smash Bros. is a fast paced game where attacks pass by so quickly that honestly i don't think that movesets should be fully referencial.

Ah, the age-old question.

While I used to prefer movesets to have as many references as possible, I now think having a clear playstyle is the priority. However, I still don't like pulling ideas from out of nowhere. With normals, you often have to make up specific attacks, which is fine, but they could still be based on the character's weapon or fighting style. The specials should be more focused on references, but some creative liberties can be taken there to make the moves fit a clear playstyle. Overall, moveset design is an art that takes practice.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So, what do you think goes on with the selection process of assist trophies and PokeBall Pokemon?

Like how do those guys get picked for the job?

 

[SharkLord]

So… what’s everyone’s stance on QTEs (Quick Time Events)?

Should they be introduced in a new game for Final Smashes as a middle ground between cutscenes and transformations?

Eh... I'm fine if it's just a quick button-mash/hold segment for some added interactivity, but I feel like timed hits are just gonna drag out the final smash. My personal gripe with cinematics are that sometimes they feel a bit long and break up the pace of the match a bit, especially when you're playing a casual match and everyone starts popping Final Smashes willy-nilly; Timed hits would require dragging out the attack even more just to give enough space to land the inputs

 

[SPEN18]

So, what do you think goes on with the selection process of assist trophies and PokeBall Pokemon?

Like how do those guys get picked for the job?

It seems like a mix of three primary things: (1) getting some popular favorites in with some significant representation if they can't make it as playable; (2) taking picks which nicely fill some specific and/or novel gameplay function that translates well into a platform fighter, based on some unique ability or abilities; and (3) further indulging Sakurai's love for the wacky/surprise factor, pulling contents from retro or otherwise unexpected places.

 

[RouffWestie]

Hi folks! Since i'm planning to do some moveset concept ideas for some characters in the future, here's a little topic for debate:

Do you prefer movesets that are full of references, or more practical movesets that have some attacks that the characters don't do in their game of origin?

Moveset full or reference or moveset that's practical?


Always felt that Mr. Game & Watch gets both jobs done pretty well. Never felt the same concern with this that I've noticed others have. Fighter's stats and attack details, like active frames and endlag and damage %, those are more important to me.
Though if you were a game dev and got hired for a Smashlike, were told to put Character A in the game, so you sit down watching or playing Character A's game, then it's at least understandable that the things you see Character A do end up being the first things on your mind when building their moveset. Not inherently good or bad, just more understandable.