Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[AreJay25]

So, to distract myself from... whatever the hell is happening right now. I figured this was interesting.

Sega announced (in an interview) that they do indeed have a new Virtua Fighter game in the works. Again, it's only in text, and it's pretty much been an open secret for a while now, but hey.

I think it's pretty expected that we might get at least a few more fighting game reps next go around. With this, what do you all think are the chances of a VF rep making it in? Sakurai clearly has a lot of respect for the series seeing that it's gotten content in Smash 4 and Ultimate, and it has more than enough of a legacy within the industry to justify its inclusion. I guess the main hurdles are implementation (considering how difficult it was to include a Tekken character) and Sega already having a bunch of characters vying for spots.

 

[dream1ng]

I seriously doubt it solely because of backwards compatibility.

BotW had a valid argument for having both a Wii U version and a Switch version (Wii U was the promised console for years and Switch lacked BC), but it would feel a bit weird for Prime 4 to be given the same treatment.

The only reason I could see two versions co-existing is if there is stuff that is simply unfeasible on the original Switch hardware.

This doesn't really address the major commercial differences between Switch and Switch 2 games in 2025 and beyond.

BC squeezes a few more units out of old games, but exists primarily to make the new console more appealing to the existing install base. Marketing-wise, they're going to move more units of a game marketed for the new system than one they're laying to rest. Not just in the lead up to the release of the system and game but consider the shelf life of a new system versus any Switch games.

How many units you think MP4 is selling in, like, 2027 as a Switch game versus as a Switch 2 game? All Switch games are about to have a dropoff in sales, even with BC, because people just want to buy what's new. And even a new game on an old system will seem less new than a new game on a new system.

Just because a system has BC doesn't mean Switch games will continue to sell as if they're on the current console.

Switch lacked BC, but Wii didn't. And Twilight Princess came to both. I think the commonality between it, BotW, and MP4 is that a big reason these games touched down on the previous system is because they had already been promised for it. But I don't think any of the older systems were the priority for the cross-release, more an obligation, and I think the same will be true here. They're priority games, they're going to be put on the priority system.

Despite Metroid being treated as bigger than it actually is, MP4 is still a high-status game. If it releases solely on the Switch, it's going to be neglected promotionally as it actively competes against the much bigger Switch 2 push, then releases on an already outdated platform, whose library will only continue to diminish commercially. BC won't afford it nearly as many sales as actually releasing it on the thing Nintendo is pushing, will exist for years to come, and enables actually working in tandem with and benefitting from the massive Switch 2 promotion, instead of against it.

Like, if MP4 is a Switch 2 game, it will actually be a part of the reveal and the push. Like ARMS and Splatoon 2 and XC2. That will be very big for this game. Just because you'd be able to play the Switch version on the Switch 2 doesn't make up for the effect of actually being a Switch 2 game.

 

[Speed Weed]

So, to distract myself from... whatever the hell is happening right now. I figured this was interesting.

Sega announced (in an interview) that they do indeed have a new Virtua Fighter game in the works. Again, it's only in text, and it's pretty much been an open secret for a while now, but hey.

I think it's pretty expected that we might get at least a few more fighting game reps next go around. With this, what do you all think are the chances of a VF rep making it in? Sakurai clearly has a lot of respect for the series seeing that it's gotten content in Smash 4 and Ultimate, and it has more than enough of a legacy within the industry to justify its inclusion. I guess the main hurdles are implementation (considering how difficult it was to include a Tekken character) and Sega already having a bunch of characters vying for spots.

Saying what I've said before - it has the legacy, Sakurai's clearly fond, I just can't shake the feeling that he sees the Akira assist as good enough representation as is. There's also, of course, the matter of competition - for example, nowadays, you can't go 5 seconds without hearing SEGA push Sonic, Persona and RgG as their pillars, and we're 2 for 3 on that one - and VF is a series that's still going to need to do some work to "re-establish" itself for the time being, so I don't know that it's a priority in their heads right now.

I would love to see it though. Have em come with a Honey Mii costume

 

[Guynamednelson]

Twilight Princess came to both

I feel like that had a very good reason to happen beyond it being announced for the Gamecube: If you didn't have a Gamecube, you're likely to not have a GC controller, and thus you'd need to buy the Wii version of TP if you want to actually play the game on your new console.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

This doesn't really address the major commercial differences between Switch and Switch 2 games in 2025 and beyond.

BC squeezes a few more units out of old games, but exists primarily to make the new console more appealing to the existing install base. Marketing-wise, they're going to move more units of a game marketed for the new system than one they're laying to rest. Not just in the lead up to the release of the system and game but consider the shelf life of a new system versus any Switch games.

How many units you think MP4 is selling in, like, 2027 as a Switch game versus as a Switch 2 game? All Switch games are about to have a dropoff in sales, even with BC, because people just want to buy what's new. And even a new game on an old system will seem less new than a new game on a new system.

Just because a system has BC doesn't mean Switch games will continue to sell as if they're on the current console.

Switch lacked BC, but Wii didn't. And Twilight Princess came to both. I think the commonality between it, BotW, and MP4 is that a big reason these games touched down on the previous system is because they had already been promised for it. But I don't think any of the older systems were the priority for the cross-release, more an obligation, and I think the same will be true here. They're priority games, they're going to be put on the priority system.

Despite Metroid being treated as bigger than it actually is, MP4 is still a high-status game. If it releases solely on the Switch, it's going to be neglected promotionally as it actively competes against the much bigger Switch 2 push, then releases on an already outdated platform, whose library will only continue to diminish commercially. BC won't afford it nearly as many sales as actually releasing it on the thing Nintendo is pushing, will exist for years to come, and enables actually working in tandem with and benefitting from the massive Switch 2 promotion, instead of against it.

Like, if MP4 is a Switch 2 game, it will actually be a part of the reveal and the push. Like ARMS and Splatoon 2 and XC2. That will be very big for this game. Just because you'd be able to play the Switch version on the Switch 2 doesn't make up for the effect of actually being a Switch 2 game.

Like I said, they would need to absolutely justify the Switch 2 version in some way.

Twilight Princess is actually a good example since the GameCube version didn't have any motion controls, which was the Wii's hook. So naturally the Wii launch title should be built with those in mind, right?

I'm not saying the motion controls were good. It is, after all, a launch game for the Wii, but it was a valid enough reason for the two versions to coexist.

If they do two versions of MP4, the Switch 2 version would need stuff that is undeniably unique to the console. Otherwise, it feels pointless, imo. And this is how Nintendo tends to roll with cross-releases too.

"But Breath of the Wild was the same game!"

And the Switch lacked BC. That's reason enough to justify the cross-release.

 

[superprincess]

I couldn't concentrate on the Nintendo post with everything going on and the terrible news of today.

But now that my mind's a bit clearer, I'm gonna say that their announcement about the new console was great! Finally, Ultimate Deluxe is a dead concept. You guys can continue to play Smash Ultimate on this new system.

The fact that Nintendo's president also put out a reminder that we're still getting the console before April 1st 2025 makes me think... it probably won't be announced this year.

 

[Perkilator]

After clearing my mind of…current events, I’ve decided I want the next Smash game’s newcomer selection to be as follows:

• Newcomers from veteran franchises in both the base game and DLC
• Newcomers from newly represented 1st party franchises in the base game
• Newcomers from newly represented 3rd party franchises in the DLC

 

[HyperSomari64]

May this isn't related to Smash, but Sega is going to delist some of their classic Genesis games from digital stores. Maybe they will find a home in a new compilation?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

May this isn't related to Smash, but Sega is going to delist some of their classic Genesis games from digital stores. Maybe they will find a home in a new compilation?

At this point, does Sega really need another Genesis compilation? The Sega 3D Classics Collection, the Sega Genesis Mini, the Sega Ages line, Genesis titles on NSO, Sega Genesis Mini, and the Sega Genesis Classics release on various platforms... what else can really be done with these games?

Expensive or not, I think Saturn or even Master System games would be far more notable novelty at this point.

 

[ninjahmos]

I kind of would like to hear Akira Yamaoka do his own arrangement of Lavender Town.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

So, to distract myself from... whatever the hell is happening right now. I figured this was interesting.

Sega announced (in an interview) that they do indeed have a new Virtua Fighter game in the works. Again, it's only in text, and it's pretty much been an open secret for a while now, but hey.

I cant wait to play it in the Yakuza Arcade cabinet.

 

[Noipoi]

Realistically, what do we think the Switch 2 will cost?

$400? $500?

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Realistically, what do we think the Switch 2 will cost?

$400? $500?

Considering the Switch was $300 and the OLED was $350, and rumors have Switch 2 placed somewhere around the PS4 (I think the rumored specs I read were like base PS4 handheld and PS4 Pro docked, but obviously that's rumors lol) which was $400 at launch, I'm expecting probably around there?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

My hangup with a Virtua Fighter character is that Sakurai couldn't find an up special for a grounded fighter with lightning powers, so how's he going to envision a workable moveset for a character from a series that explicitly doesn't give its characters superpowers.

 

[DarthEnderX]

so how's he going to envision a workable moveset for a character from a series that explicitly doesn't give its characters superpowers.

The same way he did with Little Mac.

He doesn't...

 

[Kirbeh]

My hangup with a Virtua Fighter character is that Sakurai couldn't find an up special for a grounded fighter with lightning powers, so how's he going to envision a workable moveset for a character from a series that explicitly doesn't give its characters superpowers.

Easy. Jacky Byrant pops in screaming "YEEEAHH!" and gives Akira a boost.

 

[chocolatejr9]

So, to distract myself from... whatever the hell is happening right now. I figured this was interesting.

Sega announced (in an interview) that they do indeed have a new Virtua Fighter game in the works. Again, it's only in text, and it's pretty much been an open secret for a while now, but hey.

I think it's pretty expected that we might get at least a few more fighting game reps next go around. With this, what do you all think are the chances of a VF rep making it in? Sakurai clearly has a lot of respect for the series seeing that it's gotten content in Smash 4 and Ultimate, and it has more than enough of a legacy within the industry to justify its inclusion. I guess the main hurdles are implementation (considering how difficult it was to include a Tekken character) and Sega already having a bunch of characters vying for spots.

The article as a whole is pretty interesting, as it talks about Sega's recent strategy regarding IP revivals, not just through new games but also films (still surprised Eternal Champions of all things is getting a film: thought they were content leaving that one forgotten). Here's hoping it works out for them in the long run, lord knows the "Sega only makes Sonic" meme is WAY beyond stale at this point...

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Realistically, what do we think the Switch 2 will cost?

$400? $500?

500 would be enough to keep up with the regular PS5 and Xbox Series S, but unless the console can also do my taxes, I don't see the hardware in it (based on leaks) being good enough to justify a matching price.

I can see 400 though.

 

[fogbadge]

Finally, Ultimate Deluxe is a dead concept.

never underestimate the stubbornness of smash fans

 

[PersonAngelo53]

The same way he did with Little Mac.

He doesn't...

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

Or just say screw it and do give him super powers.

He throws a laser at the end of this combo here.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Yeah, does Virtua Fighter even have special moves? Cause if not, we might be looking at a Heihachi situation with Akira.

 

[Garteam]

Realistically, what do we think the Switch 2 will cost?

$400? $500?

$400 with a price cut early in the generation (~end of year 2). One of the big competitive advantages of the Switch was being far less expensive than alternatives consoles, which allowed it to be sold as the cheapest, non-phone device that could play games like Fortnite and Minecraft.

That's going to be particularly relevant in the 2020s, where both consumers and the industry have a lot less cash to play with. Nintendo has been able to report consistent profits due to the success of the Switch, but even that has a limit. They're finally starting to see the financial disappointments and tough choices that the rest of the industry is facing.

Being one of the few megacorps not trying to chase absurd budgets under the expectation they're going to be making Fortnite-tier money is a major strength of Nintendo's. It'll be interesting to see if they stick to what works or if they'll shoot themselves in the foot like Nintendo tends to do when exiting a particularly successful generation.

 

[BuckleyTim]

Granted, the last major period of instability they had was brought upon them by trying to do what was working before despite the audience for that drying up (Wii u) and pricing a system too high and with no real first party support to speak of in the first year (3ds).

I think Nintendo will have a relatively smooth transition to switch 2 since it's clear the audience for their consoles has reconsolidated from both a hardcore and a casual perspective. Not to mention it's clear they're saving stuff for switch 2 given how lean this year is already.

 

[Garteam]

Granted, the last major period of instability they had was brought upon them by trying to do what was working before despite the audience for that drying up (Wii u) and pricing a system too high and with no real first party support to speak of in the first year (3ds).

I think Nintendo will have a relatively smooth transition to switch 2 since it's clear the audience for their consoles has reconsolidated from both a hardcore and a casual perspective. Not to mention it's clear they're saving stuff for switch 2 given how lean this year is already.

The problem isn't just the transition to the Wii U, it's also the transition to the Nintendo 64. In 1996, they should have seen the writing on the wall and realized that cartridges were a bad idea (anti-piracy and lack of load times weren't worth the cost of production and lack of data relative to CDs) and they needed to treat key devs like Square and Capcom more equitably. In 2012, they should have realized the casual market moved on from the Wii awhile ago and the GamePad was more of a detriment than an asset to the console.

Historically, console transitions are when Nintendo gets punished for bad habits and beliefs they picked up while at the top in the previous gen. I don't know exactly what this would look like for the Switch. It could be a lack of a really solid early lineup, an assumption that IPs will just continue to linearly get popular without actually managing those IPs well (see Pokemon), or just pricing the thing wrong. Failure obviously isn't guaranteed, but this is the most precarious position Nintendo has been in since mid-2017.

Granted, Nintendo tends to enter their most innovative phases following these botched generation jumps. The N64 and GameCube not working as traditional consoles led to the Wii. The Wii U's failure led to a lot of ideas being refined for the Switch.

 

[Perkilator]

Since Popeye is a couple months away from becoming public domain, do you think Nintendo's going to capitalize on this in any way? They did make Popeye games back in the day, after all.

 

[BuckleyTim]

I don't think Nintendo cares all that much, and if they did they'd probably negotiate the actual Popeye liscence from [whatever studio owns Popeye] rather than limit themselves to whatever cartoons are in the public domain at the time.

Could see a cheeky reference to the origins of Jumpman in a new 3d Mario, though.

 

[HyperSomari64]

At this point, does Sega really need another Genesis compilation? The Sega 3D Classics Collection, the Sega Genesis Mini, the Sega Ages line, Genesis titles on NSO, Sega Genesis Mini, and the Sega Genesis Classics release on various platforms... what else can really be done with these games?

Expensive or not, I think Saturn or even Master System games would be far more notable novelty at this point.

I remember in FamiBoards about the possibility of an NSO/Project EGG-like service with games from the SG-1000 to the Dreamcast with some Arcade. But these are just dream ideas users from there have.

 

[Wonder Smash]

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

Or just say screw it and do give him super powers.

He throws a laser at the end of this combo here.

Akira doesn't have super powers though, so giving him some wouldn't be an accurate depiction of the character. Even that "laser" attack in that video is really just an exaggeration of an attack he already does in the VF series.

 

[Perkilator]

Anyway, here's more proof that Shadow can be a fully unique fighter if the devs so desired.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Anyway, here's more proof that Shadow can be a fully unique fighter if the devs so desired.

This has got to be the most broken mess I have ever seen.

Love his back throw though. I hope he has that same animation idea for his official appearance whenever that may be.

 

[ninjahmos]

Anyway, here's more proof that Shadow can be a fully unique fighter if the devs so desired.

Damn. That's pretty cool.

OK, the moveset actually does look a little broken, but some aspects of it were pretty cool. I'd definitely love to see what the devs could do with Shadow as a unique fighter.

I think I might have an idea for what his Final Smash could be. It starts off with Shadow using Chaos Control on his opponent, then he does a flurry of punches and kicks, and finishes with Chaos Blast.

 

[Speed Weed]

At this point, does Sega really need another Genesis compilation? The Sega 3D Classics Collection, the Sega Genesis Mini, the Sega Ages line, Genesis titles on NSO, Sega Genesis Mini, and the Sega Genesis Classics release on various platforms... what else can really be done with these games?

Expensive or not, I think Saturn or even Master System games would be far more notable novelty at this point.

As long as other stuff continues to be rereleased, I would honestly be fine with a new Mega Drive compilation with better emulation (ideally by M2) and some of the big missing first-party games that weren't in the previous comps, like Crusader of Centy, Pulseman, Ranger-X, all the Technosoft stuff, etc. Though that would probably be as far as I'd be willing to take it. Also I don't get why you included SEGA AGES in that list - of the 19 games they did, only 4 are actually Mega Drive games, and two of them hadn't been released in previous compilations.

Also worth noting they're delisting NiGHTS as well as some of the Dreamcast and Model 2 ports. I have to wonder what's going on...

(still surprised Eternal Champions of all things is getting a film: thought they were content leaving that one forgotten)

I can kinda see why they gave it a film: as I mentioned in the past, this current IP usage initiative is very focused on that American SEGA boomer audience so far, and EC is a pretty nostalgic game for a lot of that crowd. As to whether it has any appeal beyond that......eeeeehhhhh. I think ultimately the biggest reason they left it forgotten for so long is that it just isn't a very good series

 

[HyperSomari64]

Well, Sega's gonna delisting Arcade, Genesis and Dreamcast games from digital stores.

Not sure how this will affect next Smash, but this deserves to be mentioned.

Sorry for repeating it.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Well, I got both Sega Genesis Minis, Shenmue I and II, and Lost Judgment since the Yakuza series provides a lot of retro SEGA games. Somewhere down the line, I'll get whatever Yakuza game that's got Virtua Fighter 2.

I prefer physical copies anyway.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Eternal Champions always struck me as one of those series that could have become something significant had they done more with it, but it was basically cut off after the 1 and half core games (and one unwanted spin-off) it got and was basically left as one of various 4th gen IP's that never really popped up again.

I almost wonder if it's resurrection as a film project is more because the concept (different people are plucked from various historical periods and fight each other) just makes for an easy elevator pitch.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

GOOD NEWS EVERYONE!

Which means... You know what!

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

As incredibly unlikely as it would be, a Ryu Hayabusa/Joe Musashi dual Smash reveal would be one of the craziest surprise announcements ever.


(Hopefully the latter would have his dog to differentiate him a bit from the former)

 

[Ivander]

(Hopefully the latter would have his dog to differentiate him a bit from the former)

So about Shadow Dancer, it's Joe Musashi only in the English one. In Japanese, it's his son Hayate. And in all the other Shinobi games Joe Musashi appears in, he never has the dog helping him.

 

[Speed Weed]

I'm sorry I just can't get very excited for the prospect of Joe being the rep. I'm a Hotsuma guy all the way

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

So about Shadow Dancer, it's Joe Musashi only in the English one. In Japanese, it's his son Hayate. And in all the other Shinobi games Joe Musashi appears in, he never has the dog helping him.

I guess there could be a convoluted amalgamation character that takes elements from various games in the series amounting to a tribute character... or they could just go the simple SHAZAM route of calling him Shinobi and leaving it at that.

Look I just want a Ninja attacking people with his dog, I can't lie.