Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[YeppersPeppers]

I still think it'd be pretty cool if they could take the PNGs from Spirits and the descriptions from Trophies, put them together and make them "Spirit Cards."

This. Shaking up the presentation of spirits would honestly go a long way in livening them up, and the idea of cards feels like a natural and fun way to go about it. Slap on some quick details about the characters à la trophies (doesn't even need to be as much either), give 'em a stylish collectible card frame, and suddenly they feel a lot cooler and meaningful...at least I think so. The coolest thing they could do is invite a whole slew of guest artists to come in and draw new art for the cards. Would significantly diminish how many there are, though.

 

[Dinoman96]

View attachment 394973View attachment 394974
View attachment 394975View attachment 394976
View attachment 394977

It's funny how seemingly desperate the final pre-release Ultimate Smash direct was in trying to make spirits seem like a cool fleshed-out universe of unique characters instead of a collection of 1000 or so PNGs that all pull from the same pool of 50 or so effects.

Like yeah bro... Louie, Wiggler, Helix, and the Pac-Man ghosts are my dream team, but seeing static images of them occasionally bounce up and down as they "hunt" for treasure doesn't really do it for me.

You remind me of this one trailer:

Hearing Xander Mobus go "What's this?! Characters other than fighters?!" in the Spirits segment cracks me up so hard. Like bruh what about assist trophies and even boss fights? Those involve extra NPCs outside of the playable lineup and they're actually physically there too instead of just PNGs

 

[Ivander]

I think Spirit Battles had an interesting premise of being similar to Event Battles, although I think they could've been more better than Event battles had they done a bigger distance with them.

• For the Assist Trophy battles, simply have them fought without them controlling another character unless that character is heavily associated with them, like a Mini-boss.
• Similar to the Trophy Stage Event Matches in Melee, I think some Spirits being fought on stages you can't normally be on would've been cool to see, like some of the Boss battle stages like Ganon's Tower or Ancestral Steppe. Heck, fighting Spirits on a Custom Stage made by the developers would've been cool too.
• Give an option in Smash Battles that allow Spirits to have their power/advantage turned off, with only Traits being the only thing affecting the fighters, to allow people to fight with low-level Spirits without getting curbed by high-level Spirits. An additional option to allow all Spirits to equip up to 3 secondary Spirits without worrying about the Spirit's original number of slots or space cost would be good too.
• Add Mooks from Smash Run to some of the Spirit Battles, like Bronto Burts in the Bronto Burt Spirit battle, or a Magikoopa in the Kammy Spirit battle or a Darknut in the Darknut Spirit Battle.
• Add some text for description. With the number of Spirits, it doesn't have to be alot of text, but there has to be enough text to give a description and trait of the character. Something like: "Luigi: Brother of Mario, the hero of the Mushroom Kingdom. Sometimes gets nervous, but he pulls through to help save the day."
• Obviously, I mentioned this before, but a character color editor for Smash Bros. and when you are fighting Spirits, the Fighter's colors are changed to reflect the Spirit's colors and additional fighters in the match have their colors changed to reflect the character they are representing helping the main fighter.

 

[YeppersPeppers]

Honestly, I'd just like to see Smash acknowledge its thematic origins of being one big depiction of toys and figures being played with. Characters being ripped from their worlds directly to fight is cool and all but the way Smash took contextualizing its crossover a step further was always an artistic decision that really stuck with me. Overtime it's fallen to the wayside, with the only real sticking point now being that characters are still trophies technically, but even then we hardly see that represented in the games. The last time I felt that original theming was Smash 4 trophy shop, especially the Wii U's version. Genuinely one of the coolest pieces of presentation I've seen from the series. I want to see more of that!

I recognize that it's probably just a result of the series growing over the years and that its all bonus fluff that many won't entirely care about, but it's a flare that gives Smash something unique compared to most other crossover media and I think that's just cool as hell.

 

[Louie G.]

I'm overall kind of neutral on spirits, but my opinion is similar to Yeppers here where I'm remiss that Smash near abandoned its toys to life premise in any significant way. Trophies served as a nice reminder of the premise, so I miss them. Alongside the little blurbs about each character that taught me about a surplus of Nintendo characters and games I had never heard of as a kid.

I think though I'd be perfectly satisfied if we just added trophies for specific characters with existing roles in the game. Add fighters, maybe bosses and assist trophies and then you can honestly call it a day. We can still roll with spirits if you wanna represent a metric ton of other characters in the easiest possible way, but for the characters with major roles in the game I think they should still make an effort to tie them back to their toyetic roots. That seems like a fair compromise, to me.

 

[ninjahmos]

Honestly, I'd just like to see Smash acknowledge its thematic origins of being one big depiction of toys and figures being played with. Characters being ripped from their worlds directly to fight is cool and all but the way Smash took contextualizing its crossover a step further was always an artistic decision that really stuck with me. Overtime it's fallen tot he wayside, with the only real sticking point now being that characters are still trophies technically, but even then we hardly see that represented in the games. The last time I felt that original theming was Smash 4 trophy shop, especially the Wii U's version. Genuinely one of the coolest pieces of presentation I've seen from the series. I want to see more of that!

I recognize that it's probably just a result of the series growing over the years and that its all bonus fluff that many won't entirely care about, but it's a flare that gives Smash something unique compared to most other crossover media and I think that's just cool as hell.

Yeah, I kinda miss the concept of characters coming to life from toys and figures. I thought it looked pretty cool when Mario came to life from his Trophy in the intro from Melee:

 

[Gorgonzales]

Yeah, I kinda miss the concept of characters coming to life from toys and figures. I thought it looked pretty cool when Mario came to life from his Trophy in the intro from Melee:

I miss having fully original intros for these games.

 

[Perkilator]

I’ve been working on a moveset for Rathalos based on its appearance in MH Stories and here’s the alts and specials I have so far:

Spoiler: Alts

1. Rathalos + male rider
   • Default (red)
   • Azure Rathalos (cyan)
   • Silver Rathalos (gray)
   • Corrupted Rathalos (black)
2. Rathian + female rider
   • Default (green)
   • Gold Rathia (yellow)
   • Pink Rathia (pink)
   • Felyne (beige)

Spoiler: Special Moves

B : Flame Breath; Rathalos shoots a fireball that can be aimed with the control stick. In the air, Rathalos fires at a downward angle.
B + ←→ : Poison Claw; Rathalos swipes downwards with its clawed feet. If it hits, Rathalos grabs the opponent and scratches them with its feet, poisoning them.
B + ↑ : Sky-High Dive; on the ground, Rathalos jumps into the air and dives downward to grab an opponent. If successful, Rathalos drags them all the way to the edge before blasting them with fire. In the air, Rathalos instead rushes through the air in the direction tilted on the control stick.
B + ↓ : Roar; Rathalos charges up a mighty roar that stuns any opponents on the ground. After it roars once, it must recharge before the move can be used again.

Final Smash: Scorching Slice; Rathalos breathes fire onto the ground. If it connects with any opponents in front, Rathalos then follows up with a flame wheel summoned with its tail before finishing with a spray of fireballs.

 

[Noipoi]

Alongside the little blurbs about each character that taught me about a surplus of Nintendo characters and games I had never heard of as a kid.

That’s a very good point. Smash used to have this subtle undertone of being an archive on Nintendo history, and later video game history as a whole. Scrolling down the trophy gallery felt like walking through a museum or something. I learned a lot of obscure gaming trivia this way. It gave me something to care about other than the fighting, and it made the game feel way more expansive than it really was.

Ultimate skimped on this element because its focus was more on being this positively massive crossover event first and foremost, which was awesome. But I hope the next game brings back some of that “historical” flair. It’s a very important part of Smash’s identity.

 

[Ivander]

I mean, Spirits themselves have a very "Drawn to Life" aesthetic to them, which is certainly not an uncommon theme. The idea of drawings, including childhood drawings, suddenly becoming real. And part of Smash Bros' theme is the whole imagination aspect of characters meeting each other and whatnot, and drawings or even written fanfiction can add to that aspect. Even Ultimate's theme song Lifelight somewhat ties into that theme. It's not that different from the whole toy-to-life aesthetic that Smash has had since the first game.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I will admit, I do honestly kind of prefer Trophies, maybe partially due to being used to them, but they also just felt more substantial I guess? The text blurb probably helps with this, but there's just something about a physical item (even if it's a fake trophy in a video game) as opposed to a PNG that makes it feel more worthwhile to me.

I do think cards would be a good middle ground to sort of hit both sides if they really want to have a TON of collectibles, though.

And bring back something reminiscent of Coin Launcher too, I miss that stuff.

 

[AreJay25]

I miss having fully original intros for these games.

You and me both.

I look at games like Tekken 8 and Sparking Zero, both featuring big CG intros that feel like celebrations with tons of callbacks to previous entries, and I can't help but wonder why Smash has just been stuck with basic clip shows since 2008.

 

[Louie G.]

I mean, Spirits themselves have a very "Drawn to Life" aesthetic to them, which is certainly not an uncommon theme. The idea of drawings, including childhood drawings, suddenly becoming real. And part of Smash Bros' theme is the whole imagination aspect of characters meeting each other and whatnot, and drawings or even written fanfiction can add to that aspect. Even Ultimate's theme song Lifelight somewhat ties into that theme. It's not that different from the whole toy-to-life aesthetic that Smash has had since the first game.

This is a very cute idea, but I have never gotten this impression from Spirits at all.

And what part of Lifelight alludes to this, the part about colors weaving together?

 

[YeppersPeppers]

I mean, Spirits themselves have a very "Drawn to Life" aesthetic to them, which is certainly not an uncommon theme. The idea of drawings, including childhood drawings, suddenly becoming real. And part of Smash Bros' theme is the whole imagination aspect of characters meeting each other and whatnot, and drawings or even written fanfiction can add to that aspect. Even Ultimate's theme song Lifelight somewhat ties into that theme. It's not that different from the whole toy-to-life aesthetic that Smash has had since the first game.

I'd be down with this viewing of it if the connection was stronger. When it comes to stuff like trophies (or just dolls in Smash 64) there were other elements that pushed the toys-to-life idea, such as the bedroom in 64, the living room table in Melee, the trophy shop in Smash Wii U, etc. There's nothing intrinsically connecting spirits to the toys-to-life idea aside from the spirits being pre-existing art, but there's nothing that implies that the art itself is tied to the whole child imagination like there is with trophies. This is why the idea of turning spirits into collectable cards would significantly strengthen that thematic connection.


(God I'm bad at explaining my thoughts I hope any of that makes sense.)

EDIT: I forgot about Brawl and its stickers, another cute way to make collectables tie into the broader imagination-to-life idea. The use for them as well? Planting them on the bottoms of the trophies and it gives the characters power bonuses? Very fun idea that feels like something kids would do.

 

[Arcanir]

I'm overall kind of neutral on spirits, but my opinion is similar to Yeppers here where I'm remiss that Smash near abandoned its toys to life premise in any significant way. Trophies served as a nice reminder of the premise, so I miss them. Alongside the little blurbs about each character that taught me about a surplus of Nintendo characters and games I had never heard of as a kid.

I think though I'd be perfectly satisfied if we just added trophies for specific characters with existing roles in the game. Add fighters, maybe bosses and assist trophies and then you can honestly call it a day. We can still roll with spirits if you wanna represent a metric ton of other characters in the easiest possible way, but for the characters with major roles in the game I think they should still make an effort to tie them back to their toyetic roots. That seems like a fair compromise, to me.

Yeah, the lack of the blurbs is what makes me lean towards Trophies overall. As a kid I loved going through all the trophies I collected and learning about all the different characters they were. It's how I learned about Marth, Roy, Ridley, Samus, Ayumi, Samurai Goroh, and a number of other characters, and that's something I cannot do with Spirits in their current form. I do appreciate the references in their Spirit Battles, but unfortunately to fully appreciate them you have to have a background knowledge of those characters and franchises so even in that regard it's limited in how it presents those characters.

I also agree with your compromise of making trophies for the important characters like playable ones as on top of those points, it'd make getting those characters more special. Completing Samus' Classic mode in Ultimate wasn't that exciting since the Spirit you get is just an image with no practical use, but having a trophy version would've immediately stood out and make it more rewarding.

 

[Ivander]

This is a very cute idea, but I have never gotten this impression from Spirits at all.

And what part of Lifelight alludes to this, the part about colors weaving together?

Besides the colors weaving, I was referring to the first set of lyrics altogether, where it sounds like it's calling out to a character who was drawn by a passionate person to be a light in a dark world and to search it's soul, the life behind the drawn character(like that saying where you feel the passion from the artist behind a drawing and feel the life coming from it, showing the artist's passion to that subject, kinda like a drawing of someone important to the artist) to find and bring back that life back to the world.

Probably looking a bit too far, but that itself sounds like an interesting premise for a game.