Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Maybe cut young link, Pichu, zero suit samus and a couple of others!
But keep all the important character archetypes!

Not necessarily a counterargument, but I kinda view Zero Suit Samus as the series's prime example of a pixie character. I mean, Jigglypuff did it first, but she's weird, and Sheik did it more popular, but I feel like Zero Suit Samus embodies it a bit better.

There's also Sonic and maybe Mythra but like...no.

BTW I've recently watched some fnaf videos (weird considering i never played any of the games)
But that made me think which FNAF character should be added into smash?

I guess it would have to be either a freddy or springtrap variant?

Usually normal freddy gets brought up the most although i think toy freddy and Glamrock freddy would be cool too!

Given how Sakurai usually makes these decisions, Freddy would probably get first dibs, with Springtrap being a second addition, or a first if he had a stronger hook.

Gregory & Glamrock Freddy is also an option, but since he's neither the classic nor promotional iterations of the character I don't think it's nearly as likely that they'd pick them.

 

[fogbadge]

The Switch doesn't have backwards compatibility though.

and yet it’s still the same accounts we had on our Wii us and 3dss

 

[Gengar84]

I think the fact that we got Min-min over Spring Man and Pyra/Mythra over Rex shows that we don’t necessarily always have to have the cover character as the first rep from their game if there’s another really popular option. I know Nintendo had since said that ARMS has no true main character but Spring Man seemed to be more heavily promoted at the time than the rest of the cast. I don’t know enough about FNAF to comment on that specifically but I wouldn’t completely rule it out now.

I’ve never actually heard of the pixie archetype until now. I just looked it up and they’re characters who are similar to glass cannons but with lower damage output in exchange for more exaggerated movement options. Would Sora fall into this category in Smash? He’s the first character that comes to mind with this description. Not sure if characters like Greninja and Mewtwo would fit here.

 

[fogbadge]

I think the fact that we got Min-min over Spring Man and Pyra/Mythra over Rex shows that we don’t necessarily always have to have the cover character as the first rep from their game if there’s another really popular option. I know Nintendo had since said that ARMS has no true main character but Spring Man seemed to be more heavily promoted at the time than the rest of the cast. I don’t know enough about FNAF to comment on that specifically but I wouldn’t completely rule it out now.

it’s not much of a subversion just to go for the next character on the list though is it? if anything pythra was like putting Luigi in first and min min was like pikachu

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

and yet it’s still the same accounts we had on our Wii us and 3dss

Can't argue facts.

 

[fogbadge]

Can't argue facts.

then don’t

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think the fact that we got Min-min over Spring Man and Pyra/Mythra over Rex shows that we don’t necessarily always have to have the cover character as the first rep from their game if there’s another really popular option. I know Nintendo had since said that ARMS has no true main character but Spring Man seemed to be more heavily promoted at the time than the rest of the cast. I don’t know enough about FNAF to comment on that specifically but I wouldn’t completely rule it out now.

I’ve never actually heard of the pixie archetype until now. I just looked it up and they’re characters who are similar to glass cannons but with exaggerated movement options. Would Sora fall into this category in Smash? Mewtwo seems to fit this too unless I’m misunderstanding what they mean by movement options.

I think even despite not being the focus, Freddy is still the face of the series, and makes regular appearances within it albeit generally in spinoffs. He's most recently appeared in Five Nights at Freddy's (the movie), the FNAF Kart demo, and I'm pretty sure he was in Help Wanted 2. Springtrap is just as iconic, so he is an option, but I would predict Freddy, or one of his many variants as a first character.

EDIT: I did make a challenger pack idea for Freddy, and it's still one of the ones I'm most proud of (though later I found out some of the songs I picked from the older games were outsourced and thus wouldn't actually be included and aren't in rereleases). If you haven't already read it and are still curious, you can find it in my signature...This feels weird to say. I like sharing ideas, but I also don't want to annoy people with self-promotion.


As for pixies, I'm not the best at locking in characters as examples of this kind of archetype, but I don't think I'd consider Sora or Mewtwo to be pixies since the former's movement is kinda slow and floaty while the latter is notorious for being easy to hit. From how it was described to me, pixies are more characters that use their movement speed rather than fast buttons to get you in neutral, and then use it during pressure strings to mix you up and keep you in the blender.

Here's Fighting Game Glossary's definition, just in case it helps. I will note that Twelve is a weird pick as an example of a Pixie since he seems to be zoner in design, but a lot of stuff in his kit also just doesn't really work, and he does have a glide ability, so perhaps he ends up working like a pixie in practice. I'll also add Seth from BlazBlue as an example.

A character that has extreme movement and mixup options, but pretty low damage output and low health. If you liken a character to a fly buzzing around your head that you can't seem to swat, chances are they're a pixie character. They're similar to glass cannons, but their movement options are even more exaggerated at the cost of doing very little damage. Examples include Chipp in Guilty Gear, Twelve from SFIII: 3rd Strike, and Sonic from Super Smash Bros.

 

[RouffWestie]

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Assuming the Switch 2 is backwards compatible, do you think that also applies to digital games? I just bought a ton of Switch games, both physical and digital, that I’m sure I won’t have time to get around to most of the before Switch 2 comes out. I’m hoping I can play those games on the next console.

I assume they would do a transfer tool again.
The 3DS had a transfer tool that allowed you to bring over DSiware to the system. I remember that specifically because my 3DS library was basically old DSiware games
https://en-americas-support.nintend...nsfer-dsiware-to-a-nintendo-3ds-family-system

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

As for pixies, I'm not the best at locking in characters as examples of this kind of archetype, but I don't think I'd consider Sora or Mewtwo to be pixies since the former's movement is kinda slow and floaty while the latter is notorious for being easy to hit. From how it was described to me, pixies are more characters that use their movement speed rather than fast buttons to get you in neutral, and then use it during pressure strings to mix you up and keep you in the blender.

Sounds like Sonic if he wasn't busted.

Edit: ooops, they already cited him

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Sounds like Sonic if he wasn't busted.

Edit: ooops, they already cited him

I think one of the major difficulties with balancing Sonic is that pixie characters have to be able to be mobile enough to be hard to hit, but in the platform fighter context, that also makes it easy for them to be able to run away indefinitely if left unchecked, and Sonic is probably the closest to being able to do that as can be. The other, and more pressing concern is that his speed makes his threat bubble reach the entire screen despite not having a projectile so approaching him is extremely difficult even though he's just futzing about at the ledge.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Yes but also no.

Like, you could play those games on the new system, but there would be no official support for moving digital games to the next console so you'd have to buy them again.

Tbh, considering we would assumedly be using the same sort of infrastructure (I don't know if that's even the right word but roll with me lol) for account creation and how it connects to about everything Nintendo has alongside the Save Data Cloud system?

I could see save data being transferrable, maybe just not on a game by game basis. Like it might be more all or nothing like Wii to Wii U save data transfer, but I do kind of hope they can do it on case by case for Switch games, or heck even let you connect to the same cloud so your save data tracks between the two systems. Might even be part of that whole "blur the lines of traditional console generations" thing that I think they mentioned at one point?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Assuming the Switch 2 is backwards compatible, do you think that also applies to digital games? I just bought a ton of Switch games, both physical and digital, that I’m sure I won’t have time to get around to most of the before Switch 2 comes out. I’m hoping I can play those games on the next console.

There'd be literally no reason for it not to be if the Switch 2 is backwards compatible.

It'd be easier than backwards compatible cartridges actually since you wouldn't need a way to read old cartridges, just a way to play the games on the new system.

Also, I don't know where the idea of Nintendo making you buy games again comes from because it'd be a braindead decision. I get Nintendo has a history of making odd business decisions, sure, but we're talking about $40-60 games you're asking the consumer to buy again compared to $3-5 Virtual Console games. That's completely absurd, especially because Nintendo's been good about backwards compatibility in the past.

The 3DS and Wii U both had transfer tools and Nintendo's Online infrastructure is actually set up for such a move, considering Cloud Saves and how Nintendo Online accounts will carry over to the Switch 2, as Doug Bowser confirmed in a recent interview:

In the past, every device we transitioned to had a whole new account system. Nintendo Account will allow us to communicate with our players if and when we make a transition to a new platform, to help ease that process or transition.

Everything points to full backwards compatibility with physical and digital games. At this point, I'd be more surprised if the Switch 2 weren't backwards compatible.

 

[AreJay25]

I think one of the major difficulties with balancing Sonic is that pixie characters have to be able to be mobile enough to be hard to hit, but in the platform fighter context, that also makes it easy for them to be able to run away indefinitely if left unchecked, and Sonic is probably the closest to being able to do that as can be. The other, and more pressing concern is that his speed makes his threat bubble reach the entire screen despite not having a projectile so approaching him is extremely difficult even though he's just futzing about at the ledge.

Thing is, they actually did try to nerf Sonic's camping ability in Ultimate. They specifically went out of their way to remove his ability to shield cancel Spin Dash, which was a massive part of his gameplan in Brawl/Smash 4 and a big reason why he was so hard to approach.

... But it literally didn't matter because Sonic mains found other ways to cancel Spin Dash, effectively making the nerf null and void lmao. Not to mention he's one of the biggest beneficiaries of the overall engine changes like the 1v1 damage multiplier, meaning it's even HARDER to actually get the lead/make comebacks against him because his damage output is so absurd.

Please redesign this character, what we have now clearly ain't working.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I think I have an idea how to get the best of both worlds for a new smash game being just a deluxe or a whole new game.

The best of both worlds would be:
1. Smash 6 is a whole new game.
2. Any newcomer to Smash 6 also gets added to Smash Ultimate as DLC.

What I’d ideally want to see is a brand new game that just uses Ultimate as a starting point and builds onto it from there. So in a way, it’s kind of a Deluxe edition but it would have as much new content as Ultimate itself had compared to Smash 4 at least. I know that requires a lot more work and it may not be entirely realistic to expect but I don’t think it’s impossible.

This.

Assuming the Switch 2 is backwards compatible, do you think that also applies to digital games?

Don't see why it wouldn't be. The cartridges just have files on them. I doubt the Switch 2 cares where the files come from.

Although...They do have cloud saves, so maybe compatible games could allow you to transfer data that way?

That is the obvious way to do it, yes. Though this is Nintendo so...who knows?

 

[Dukefire]

Ultimate's story was the constant battle of Light vs Dark which concluded that balance was ideal to bring life into a new world. Also, Lifelight was the theme that souls and life will always rise up even from the smoldering coals.

Smash 4 didn't bring a story on the table, but the Master Core was something going for that game. Theorized as the person's internal struggles before coming into terms within themselves and embrace it.

Brawl was Subspace with Tabuu being the big bad that brought everything into the void. Brawl's theme (Fun fact: it was composed by Nobuo Uematsu. He created nearly every Final Fantasy music track.) was Legends both heroes and mortal enemies allows the light to shine brighter within their ongoing battles to fight a greater evil when the time comes.

With Smash 6 unknown, I don't know if a story may be added for the next iteration should it appear. What do you think could be a good concept?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Ultimate's story was the constant battle of Light vs Dark which concluded that balance was ideal to bring life into a new world. Also, Lifelight was the theme that souls and life will always rise up even from the smoldering coals.

Brawl was Subspace with Tabuu being the big bad that brought everything into the void. Brawl's theme (Fun fact: it was composed by Nobuo Uematsu. He created nearly every Final Fantasy music track.) was Legends both heroes and mortal enemies allows the light to shine brighter within their ongoing battles to fight a greater evil when the time comes.

With Smash 6 unknown, I don't know if a story may be added for the next iteration should it appear. What do you think could be a good concept?

Smash has never had a story so much as a loose design theme that the story has some influence over.

I don't expect the next Smash to have much of a story at all. Maybe something like Melee's Adventure Mode or maybe World of Light mini with Trophies or whatever replaces them, but not a full fledged campaign.

 

[Gengar84]

It would be awesome to see Smash get an actual story with spoken character interaction between characters (the ones that actually speak at least). I’d also love if we had some custom stage intro and victory dialogue between more characters. Thats the one thing Smash currently lacks. The characters have a hard time bringing over their unique personalities with only a few taunts and not much else.

 

[dezeray112]

Assuming the Switch 2 is backwards compatible, do you think that also applies to digital games? I just bought a ton of Switch games, both physical and digital, that I’m sure I won’t have time to get around to most of the before Switch 2 comes out. I’m hoping I can play those games on the next console.

I really do hope that not only the Switch 2 can play backward compatible games with the Switch, but also still play region free games too.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Nah, Brawl's Adventure was clearly a proper story. It was just poorly done so is a weak story. Ultimate's is more of an excuse plot, but it still has a story. It's just only done lightly by rarely showing up here and there.

Melee's is however the only one that really counts as a stringent, with the only real story beat at the very end when we find out that the Bowser there is not the same Bowser you can use, but a separate one who transformers into Giga Bowser. Smash 64 slightly had it by having a very clear design not too unlike how Melee's Adventure Mode does its strict routing, with a specific Boss who is known in the intro to have some control over the characters. It's barely there. 4's Classic goes the same way, by having a very specific final boss with new forms to show off. As in "barely there". Again, excuse plot situation, but unlike Ultimate, really doesn't try to add much story to any degree.

It's kind of weird due to the lack of dialogue. Either way, Brawl's was the only one with a remotely fleshed-out story. Ultimate's still has one, but that's because we're given enough information to understand what the actual situation is. It's just less elaborate than Brawl's, respectively.

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As much as I enjoyed the blurbs and such, there's over 1,000 Spirits, and Trophies wouldn't be severely lower either way. Even at, say, 500, that's a massive amount of text to translate. It's no surprise they got rid of that factor. It's way too much to do. I do think it would be good for the playable characters, though. It's significantly less in total(though still a lot).

Also, to me, I did get the impression that the Spirits are like drawings coming to life as part of the point behind them. No different from toys coming to life. That said, it's not actually done that well, though the theme is still there a bit. They are more possessing the character in Adventure Mode, which is a tad different. It's still them alive, just in a different way.

 

[fogbadge]

Anyone else wonder if parts of brawls story were borrowed from FF5

 

[Stratos]

Whatever Adventure Mode is like in Super Smash Bros. 6 will be enough for me.

 

[Will]

It's kind of weird due to the lack of dialogue.

Come on, you don’t remember the great, hard-hitting lines like

GRREAT. AAEEEETHHHEEERRR!!!!

 

[DarthEnderX]

Anyone else wonder if parts of brawls story were borrowed from FF5

Brawl's story wanted to be Kingdom Hearts. Along with all the cringy melodrama that entails.

 

[Will]

Brawl's story wanted to be Kingdom Hearts. Along with all the cringy melodrama that entails.

What was cringy and melodramatic? The Diddy Kong Bromances? Lucas getting traumatized, again? Mario/Zelda princess swap beef?

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Brawl's story wanted to be Kingdom Hearts. Along with all the cringy melodrama that entails.

The only things I can think of when I think of melodrama in Subspace is like the stuff with Lucas for like a stage or two because of Ness saving Lucas from Wario's Dark Cannon shot and the stuff about ROB being the last of his kind, which really isn't focused on for very long.

Subspace was mostly just "all right, you're gonna follow this group for a stage, and then this group, and EVENTUALLY they'll all meet up and you'll go through the Great Maze".

 

[Laniv]

Brawl's story wanted to be Kingdom Hearts. Along with all the cringy melodrama that entails.

But was it trying to be Kingdom Hearts? What was melodramatic about it besides the stuff with Lucas and R.O.B.?

 

[cashregister9]

My biggest problem with Subspace Emissary is that it didn't commit hard enough

give me the Kingdom Hearts level story

give me weird ass crossover nonsense like in Project x Zone and Super Robot Wars

 

[ninjahmos]

If Smash 6 had a new Adventure Mode with a Subspace-level story (or something like that), but more cohesive, and Melee Adventure Mode-type levels and battles (including secret battles for unlockable characters) with a couple elements from World of Light, I'd be all for it.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Ultimate's story was the constant battle of Light vs Dark which concluded that balance was ideal to bring life into a new world. Also, Lifelight was the theme that souls and life will always rise up even from the smoldering coals.

Smash 4 didn't bring a story on the table, but the Master Core was something going for that game. Theorized as the person's internal struggles before coming into terms within themselves and embrace it.

Brawl was Subspace with Tabuu being the big bad that brought everything into the void. Brawl's theme (Fun fact: it was composed by Nobuo Uematsu. He created nearly every Final Fantasy music track.) was Legends both heroes and mortal enemies allows the light to shine brighter within their ongoing battles to fight a greater evil when the time comes.

With Smash 6 unknown, I don't know if a story may be added for the next iteration should it appear. What do you think could be a good concept?

I think they should do something like Brawl, where everyone fights against a greater evil. But not too focused on "light" and "dark" because the series is way too colorful for that.

Though my main problem is the setting. Smash has all these stages and locations from different series, yet none of them were featured in Subspace and, despite the Spirit Battles, doesn't seem to be the setting in Ultimate. It's just one big generic world with references to them. It's not doing the crossover factor enough justice. Either they can make them separate worlds like in the Kingdom Hearts series or make a composite world where they all reside in.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Though my main problem is the setting. Smash has all these stages and locations from different series, yet none of them were featured in Subspace and, despite the Spirit Battles, doesn't seem to be the setting in Ultimate. It's just one big generic world with references to them. It's not doing the crossover factor enough justice. Either they can make them separate worlds like in the Kingdom Hearts series or make a composite world where they all reside in.

I do appreciate the setting in World of Light more honestly, because it's at least implied that Galeem created the setting after beating all of the fighters and wiping out the universe, stitching together bits and pieces to create one world.

In Subspace, the world was just kind of like that from the start, so it feels weird in retrospect.

 

[Will]

I do appreciate the setting in World of Light more honestly, because it's at least implied that Galeem created the setting after beating all of the fighters and wiping out the universe, stitching together bits and pieces to create one world.

In Subspace, the world was just kind of like that from the start, so it feels weird in retrospect.

Super weird that in SSE, Marth’s kingdom is one castle in the middle of a wasteland… and a wasteland.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I do appreciate the setting in World of Light more honestly, because it's at least implied that Galeem created the setting after beating all of the fighters and wiping out the universe, stitching together bits and pieces to create one world.

I noticed that too but I do wish they pushed the envelope with that idea a little more.

It'd be really fun if the next adventure mode took this a step further while maintaining the "fighters are toys" concept by having the main antagonist be a powerful figure that still has childlike interest and wonder; He's such a big fan of the fighters' individual games that he rips out a small chunk of each universe's world (along with the fighters/NPCs that inhabit it) and stitches all of them together into an artificial landmass or even planet. Maybe even contextualize it as him combining different play sets and plushes from these games or something, like what the Lego Movie did.

It'd contextualize having levels themed after each game without a dimensional rift plot line. Going from game world to game world is easy, as here they're all quite literally next-door to each other. It'd probably look sick as heck, too.

 

[Perkilator]

I noticed that too but I do wish they pushed the envelope with that idea a little more.

It'd be really fun if the next adventure mode took this a step further while maintaining the "fighters are toys" concept by having the main antagonist be a powerful figure that still has childlike interest and wonder; He's such a big fan of the fighters' individual games that he rips out a small chunk of each universe's world (along with the fighters/NPCs that inhabit it) and stitches all of them together into an artificial landmass or even planet. Maybe even contextualize it as him combining different play sets and plushes from these games or something, like what the Lego Movie did.

View attachment 395008

It'd contextualize having levels themed after each game without a dimensional rift plot line. Going from game world to game world is easy, as here they're all quite literally next-door to each other.

Ah, so a world stitched together using multiple worlds…I like the idea! Do you think it’d lend itself to a similar kind of roguelike campaign to NASB2?

 

[RileyXY1]

Ah, so a world stitched together using multiple worlds…I like the idea! Do you think it’d lend itself to a similar kind of roguelike campaign to NASB2?

An NASB2-styled roguelike campaign is exactly what I'm predicting they're gonna do next.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Ah, so a world stitched together using multiple worlds…I like the idea! Do you think it’d lend itself to a similar kind of roguelike campaign to NASB2?

That could work but I'd imagine a more "set" campaign for this that includes multiple routes like WoL. Pick a direction and start traveling, defeat and recruit fighters as you enter their territory and convince them to join your cause of returning the worlds where they belong, etc. I have no doubt that content from this could be used for a separate rougelike mode anyhow, though.

 

[ninjahmos]

You know what's another song I'd love to hear in Smash if Snake makes it into the next game and they give us more music from the Metal Gear series (and hopefully other Konami/Kojima games)?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Gonna be real. Most major multi IP crossovers need excuse plots. The huge variance in IP necessitate it. You're never going to get the Pokemon and Metal Gear creators to agree on a plot that isn't just "and everyone was just kinda there." The original plot for SSE had like... Meta Knight meeting Luigi at the bus stop or something (not what they actually said but it was equally as mundane).

We're never going to get something particularly deep with this expansive of a cast. The last attempt at a major multi IP cross over with a non excuse plot that I can think of was Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite. And that game would have done better if there was no plot at all (it sucks lmao).

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Gonna be real. Most major multi IP crossovers need excuse plots. The huge variance in IP necessitate it. You're never going to get the Pokemon and Metal Gear creators to agree on a plot that isn't just "and everyone was just kinda there." The original plot for SSE had like... Meta Knight meeting Luigi at the bus stop or something (not what they actually said but it was equally as mundane).

We're never going to get something particularly deep with this expansive of a cast. The last attempt at a major multi IP cross over with a non excuse plot that I can think of was Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite. And that game would have done better if there was no plot at all (it sucks lmao).

To be honest, I'm just happy that the Sephiroth trailer included light story beats, since it was really fun seeing Banjo and Kazooie getting ready to square up with a god basically lmao

 

[Kirbeh]

Thing is, they actually did try to nerf Sonic's camping ability in Ultimate. They specifically went out of their way to remove his ability to shield cancel Spin Dash, which was a massive part of his gameplan in Brawl/Smash 4 and a big reason why he was so hard to approach.

... But it literally didn't matter because Sonic mains found other ways to cancel Spin Dash, effectively making the nerf null and void lmao. Not to mention he's one of the biggest beneficiaries of the overall engine changes like the 1v1 damage multiplier, meaning it's even HARDER to actually get the lead/make comebacks against him because his damage output is so absurd.

Please redesign this character, what we have now clearly ain't working.

Aside from redesigning his kit, which I do think is needed, I wonder if they could potentially try doing something like Guilty Gear's Negative Penalty?

 

[Laniv]

If they do have a story mode next game, do you think they'll finally make the Smash Mansion headcanon real?