Official Smash for Switch 2 - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Perkilator]

If Smash Run came back in the next Smash game, how many players maximum do you think the Switch 2 could support just for Smash Run?

 

[Gengar84]

The villagers themselves could easily work if you stick only to the same species (i.e. only dogs, only horses or only octopi) but the problem is that their moveset potential is nonexistent. They exist as a social aspect of the game, with you befriending them, talking to them, doing favors for them, etc.

The special characters are where the moveset sauce lies but they all have wildly different body types and abilities to the point where none of them would feel right as alts of another.

That makes sense. The one character I’ve seen that I think could be cool is Ankah. I don’t know much at all about her as a character but I’m always a big fan of the ancient Egyptian aesthetic. I’m guessing she’s not as likely as Tom Nook but I like her design. I’m generally not huge on the Animal Crossing aesthetic but some characters are still pretty cool.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

If Smash Run came back in the next Smash game, how many players maximum do you think the Switch 2 could support just for Smash Run?

Probably depends on the scale since it could be 8 if it’s much bigger than it was in Smash 3DS.

4 if they want not much players.

 

[Guynamednelson]

if you stick only to the same species (i.e. only dogs, only horses or only octopi)

You don't really have to, AC uses the same animations for every single character.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

That makes sense. The one character I’ve seen that I think could be cool is Ankah. I don’t know much at all about her as a character but I’m always a big fan of the ancient Egyptian aesthetic. I’m guessing she’s not as likely as Tom Nook but she looks cool. I’m generally not huge on the Animal Crossing aesthetic but some characters are still pretty cool.

Ankah is unfortunately one of those villagers with nonexistent potential, however.

I also don't see Sakurai ever go for a random villager, even the uber popular ones like Ankah or Raymond, because that would probably cause a bigger uproar than even Byleth since X villager got in instead of Y. And long-time AC fans take their favorite villagers extremely seriously.

 

[Gengar84]

Ankah is unfortunately one of those villagers with nonexistent potential, however.

I also don't see Sakurai ever go for a random villager, even the uber popular ones like Ankah or Raymond, because that would probably cause a bigger uproar than even Byleth since X villager got in instead of Y. And long-time AC fans take their favorite villagers extremely seriously.

I wonder if the animal villagers could work as echoes of the current player villager? They could just include the eight most popular villager characters as alts. That could be cool and not a ton of extra effort.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

You don't really have to, AC uses the same animations for every single character.

That is such a reductionist way of thinking.

Yes, it's true they use the same animations, but you fall into the problem of them having very different body types which was the explicit reason Isabelle wasn't made into an Echo Fighter. A gorilla cannot be an alt of a cat character because even if they use the same animations, their vastly different body types would not make them work as alts.

I also think Sakurai would try to use aspects unique to the species if he brought a random villager, so if he makes use of a rhino's horns, a squirrel's tail or an octopus's tentacles, this severely reduces the number of potential alts.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I don't think Animal crossing should get another character.

The two characters we already have feel too similar already.

 

[Gengar84]

That is such a reductionist way of thinking.

Yes, it's true they use the same animations, but you fall into the problem of them having very different body types which was the explicit reason Isabelle wasn't made into an Echo Fighter. A gorilla cannot be an alt of a cat character because even if they use the same animations, their vastly different body types would not make them work as alts.

I also think Sakurai would try to use aspects unique to the species if he brought a random villager, so if he makes use of a rhino's horns, a squirrel's tail or an octopus's tentacles, this severely reduces the number of potential alts.

They made to Koopa Kids work as alts despite some of them like Roy and Morton having much bulkier frames than Lemmy or Iggy. It probably has a lot to do with their shared Clown Car but I think they might be able to make it work for a more traditional fighter. Modders have done similar things with Smash characters. For example, there’s a Tifa mod over Terry that has Tifa’s correct proportions but plays identically to Terry. I’m not sure exactly how they make it work but it looks pretty natural. My brother and I made a pretty natural looking Lickitung over Yoshi using the same method despite them having fairly different body types. If modders can make it work, I’m assuming the actual developers could too.

 

[Guynamednelson]

That is such a reductionist way of thinking.

By "you don't really have to" I meant that they don't all have radically different body shapes. Gorillas and octopi can't be alts of a dog villager, but cats and teddy bears could.

 

[fogbadge]

Pokémon has never done an Asian region outside of Japan before, let alone SEA.

well that's got nothing to do with either point so nice job deflecting

 

[SubspaceJigglypuff]

Not guaranteed but they are too big to ignore. Not the first time that there was a gap like how there are several early Wii characters in Smash 4 and Olimar being added to Brawl despite Pikmin 1 releasing around the same time as Melee.

Minor correction; Olimar also had Pikmin 2. That game only released about a year and two months before Brawl's project plan (4/29/2004 vs 7/5/2005).

Anyways I've actually been goin back and lookin into this for past games. I think Wii Fit's most recent new content (Wii Fit +) at the time of Smash 4's project plan (4/26/2012 I think?) was 2 and a half years prior, and Little Mac's most recent game was about 2 years and 11 months old. So fun fact, I think these two are the farthest back Sakurai's gone for characters in base outside of echos, retro/surprise characters and fan requests.

I can understand why Swamp asked that question, since Ring Fit would be like, idk, 4 years or something from when I think the project plan was made but I don't think it matters that much, it's not like they have that many new 1st party Switch IPs to pick from. If they can go back farther than usual for fan demands, they can prolly do it for exceptional performance too.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

They made to Koopa Kids work as alts despite some of them like Roy and Morton having much bulkier frames than Lemmy or Iggy. It probably has a lot to do with their shared Clown Car

I'm gonna stop you right there because you explained exactly why the Koopalings work.

In the case of Random Animal Crossing Villager, it's harder to justify shriking down a gorilla or clipping an eagle's wings to fit the "default" animal chosen.

 

[Gengar84]

I'm gonna stop you right there because you explained exactly why the Koopalings work.

In the case of Random Animal Crossing Villager, it's much harder to justify shriking down a gorilla or clipping an eagle's wings to fit the "default" animal chosen.

Right, but I also said modders have since figured out a way to make other characters work too. There’s a method when porting a model that lets you keep the original proportions of the character you’re porting over. It takes some additional tweaking but the end result is actually really convincing and on par with actual official Smash characters. You’d think Tifa would look weird on Terry with his broader shoulders and more muscular frame but the porting method actually fixes that.

The obvious solution is to just choose animal villagers with roughly similar frames so you don’t have to do as much tweaking to make it look natural. The modding method definitely makes a lot of things possible you wouldn’t think would work though.

 

[CosmicEternity44]

Say guys, you know when before Kirby Air Riders was revealed, Sakurai made a tweet on X and fans started asking for characters in the next Smash game?

Assuming Sakurai had not started working on Smash 6 yet, I think that may help some characters get into the next Smash Bros., actually, as annoying as it might be for Sakurai. With that, I am only partially serious.

 

[SubspaceJigglypuff]

Right, but I also said modders have figured out a way to make other characters work too. There’s a method when porting a model that lets you keep the original proportions of the character you’re porting over. It takes some additional tweaking but the end result is actually really convincing and on par with actual official Smash characters. You’d think Tifa would look weird on Terry with his broader shoulders and more muscular frame but the porting method actually fixes that.

Does that method end up tweaking the character's hurtbox sizes though? If it does, then that would still be disqualifying from alt costume status since costumes can't have anything that could potentially change the outcome of a match.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Right, but I also said modders have figured out a way to make other characters work too. There’s a method when porting a model that lets you keep the original proportions of the character you’re porting over. It takes some additional tweaking but the end result is actually really convincing and on par with actual official Smash characters. You’d think Tifa would look weird on Terry with his broader shoulders and more muscular frame but the porting method actually fixes that.

The "modders did it" argument might feel like a Joker card that can shut down any argument that this thread could ever possibly have. After all, why bother arguing about what isn't possible when people with infinite free time have shown that everything is possible?

But the real question isn't really whether it's possible but rather if it feels right. And like I said earlier, Sakurai might want to focus on the unique aspects of a chosen species. Having to homogenize people of multiple species into a single set of alts is simply not how he operates. He's made characters into Echo Fighters for less than that.

 

[Starbun]

Say guys, you know when before Kirby Air Riders was revealed, Sakurai made a tweet on X and fans started asking for characters in the next Smash game?

Assuming Sakurai had not started working on Smash 6 yet, I think that may help some characters get into the next Smash Bros., actually, as annoying as it might be for Sakurai. With that, I am only partially serious.

I already deleted my Twitter long before that. Wish I'd known he posted that so maybe I would make a new one and be a strong voice for Reimu

 

[Gengar84]

Does that method end up tweaking the character's hurtbox sizes though? If it does, then that would still be disqualifying from alt costume status since costumes can't have anything that could potentially change the outcome of a match.

It doesn’t actually. The character still plays identically despite having different proportions. It’s really cool and I think something like that could be possible in the main game if they wanted to.

The “modders did it” is just to show that it is, in fact, possible. I’m not trying to shut down any argument but instead show that things are actually possible now that weren’t when Ultimate launched. Once you know what you’re doing, you can actually make a very convincing model port in just a few hours. It took my brother and I about a day to port Lickitung over Yoshi convincingly and I’m still very inexperienced. More experienced modders can do it in a couple hours. I’m guessing professional game developers could do it even faster.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I don't think Animal crossing should get another character.

The two characters we already have feel too similar already.

Although despite that, they will probably do it again since the series is that big.

I feel like would just be one more because of the moveset problem. Maybe Tom Nook or K.K. Slider?

Say guys, you know when before Kirby Air Riders was revealed, Sakurai made a tweet on X and fans started asking for characters in the next Smash game?

Assuming Sakurai had not started working on Smash 6 yet, I think that may help some characters get into the next Smash Bros., actually, as annoying as it might be for Sakurai. With that, I am only partially serious.

Not even sure if Sakurai even reads these because of the amount of spam.

 

[CosmicEternity44]

Although despite that, they will probably do it again since the series is that big.

I feel like would just be one more because of the moveset problem. Maybe Tom Nook or K.K. Slider?

Not even sure if Sakurai even reads these because of the amount of spam.

Yeah, that may be one of the reasons why I said I was partially serious, as in partially joking.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I don't think Animal crossing should get another character.

The two characters we already have feel too similar already.

Fire Emblem called.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Fire Emblem called.

And I'm not picking up that damn phone. :V

 

[Gengar84]

Fire Emblem called.

Fire Emblem is actually centered on combat and the characters have deep narratives so it’s natural it would have more characters. I’m not exactly the biggest fan of how Smash handled Fire Emblem’s representation but it’s understandable. I’m not saying we can’t or shouldn’t get another Animal Crossing character, they’re just not as natural a fit for Smash as something like Fire Emblem.

 

[Noipoi]

Say guys, you know when before Kirby Air Riders was revealed, Sakurai made a tweet on X and fans started asking for characters in the next Smash game?

Assuming Sakurai had not started working on Smash 6 yet, I think that may help some characters get into the next Smash Bros., actually, as annoying as it might be for Sakurai. With that, I am only partially serious.

I think Soccer Guy learned to ignore the comments a long time ago

 

[CosmicEternity44]

I think Soccer Guy learned to ignore the comments a long time ago

Yeah, I kinda figured. Then again, I was not wholly serious as I said.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Pokémon has never done an Asian region outside of Japan before, let alone SEA.

What do you consider Hawaii to be?

Edit: Oh wait, SEA stands for Southeast Asia. Nevermind.

If Smash Run came back in the next Smash game, how many players maximum do you think the Switch 2 could support just for Smash Run?

64.

Turn it into a Battle Royale. Players run around killing creeps and collecting upgrades. Map shrinks over time. Last 4 surviving players have a Smash match.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Fire Emblem is actually centered on combat and the characters have deep narratives so it’s natural it would have more characters. I’m not exactly the biggest fan of how Smash handled Fire Emblem’s representation but it’s understandable. I’m not saying we can’t or shouldn’t get another Animal Crossing character, they’re just not as natural a fit for Smash as something like Fire Emblem.

...the joke was that 4 FE characters had the same moveset

 

[Ivander]

...the joke was that 4 FE characters had the same moveset

I mean, at the least one of them plays differently from the other three due to attributes. Fire Emblem fans put a lot of baggage on Roy, but let's give him credit for at least trying to be played differently compared to the other three.

 

[Gengar84]

My controversial Fire Emblem take is that they should have had a character for each of the major weapon classes with Hero style alts of different popular units of that class that had roughly the same frame. Cloud’s Advent Children outfit shows that you can have visual differences in things such as a unique Final Smash as long as it doesn’t affect the core gameplay. So that means each alt could have their own unique taunts and visual flair to show off their unique personalities while maintaining the core gameplay mechanics.

This approach obviously wouldn’t work for a lot of the unique lords but most popular ones could still be their own separate characters. The weapon class idea would just give us the opportunity to play as a lot of our favorite supporting characters while emphasizing the weapon system and giving Smash a lot of variety. It’s probably too late at this stage to do something like that with the current Smash direction but I think it would be a cool idea if Smash got a hard reboot.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

IIRC, the villager's body types are all fairly uniform with exceptions with things like octopi having tentacle legs. Theoretically, it would be possible to have a handful of villagers as Echo Fighters of Villager and/or Isabelle. For example (if you'll excuse the fairly random assortment), as an Echo of Isabelle, you could have taller villagers Bob, Frett, Fang, Curt, Coco, Rolf, Raymond, and Zell, and for Villager you could have shorties like Ribbot, Hamlet, Derwin, Bree, Mallary, Mint, Molly, and Peck.

Would this be a good idea? Well Marth, Roy, Lucina and Chrom have proven that it isn't, but I do think it would be a feasible idea, and representing the normal villagers in some way I think is something that should happen. Perhaps they could appropriate Isabelle's Assist Trophy in function, maybe even sprucing it up a bit by having them do something different depending on their personality. Things like Cranky villagers throwing their summoner fruit like normal, but if an opponent eats one, they swap to throwing durians at that player, or Snooty villagers taking longer to throw fruit, and throwing less fruit on average, but always throwing perfect fruit because they're picky about what food they throw.

 

[Ivander]

Imagine being called a clone because you share 4 special moves that are similar to another character, despite you having a completely different normal attack pool from that character, especially in later games.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I mean, at the least one of them plays differently from the other three due to attributes. Fire Emblem fans put a lot of baggage on Roy, but let's give him credit for at least trying to be played differently compared to the other three.

I didn't mention gameplay. All four of them are actually fairly unique, with Marth relying on spacing, Roy having so much privilege in his moves that the only reason he doesn't feel like DLC is not having any meters (seriously, all his combo options from sourspots and the fact that no character comes close to having as many kill moves as him is ridiculous and yes, I'm salty over his Side B being stronger than Limit Break Cross Slash) and their Echoes being fundamentally different due to having uniform strength on their blades rather than extremely weak and extremely strong.

But they're still basically like Street Fighter shotos; same moveset but with enough tweak on attributes that they feel nothing alike.

 

[Arcanir]

View attachment 402634
Imagine being called a clone because you share 4 special moves that are similar to another character, despite you having a completely different normal attack pool from that character, especially in later games.

Then there's , who gets called a clone for sharing one move.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Perhaps they could appropriate Isabelle's Assist Trophy in function, maybe even sprucing it up a bit by having them do something different depending on their personality. Things like Cranky villagers throwing their summoner fruit like normal, but if an opponent eats one, they swap to throwing durians at that player, or Snooty villagers taking longer to throw fruit, and throwing less fruit on average, but always throwing perfect fruit because they're picky about what food they throw.

I like this idea so I'm fleshing it out:

• Lazy: Only throws one round of fruit before getting tired and leaving.
• Jock: Throws coconuts and durians indiscriminately in a short radius around them.
• Cranky: Alternates between throwing fruit at you and coconuts and durians at opponents.
• Smug: Throws perfect fruit at everyone, but only does one round, and poses for a bit before leaving.
• Normal: Acts exactly like Isabelle did.
• Peppy: Throws fruit indiscriminately in a short radius around them.
• Snooty: Takes longer to throw fruit, and throws less on average, but only throws perfect fruit.
• Big Sister: If an opponent eats the summoner's fruit, they pelt the offender with durians.

Since they all share animations, most if not all villagers are able to spawn.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Since they all share animations, most if not all villagers are able to spawn.

Oh, that would definitely not happen.

Mainly because there's nearly 500 of them across the series (but only 413 if you stick to just New Horizons)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Oh, that would definitely not happen.

Mainly because there's nearly 500 of them across the series (but only 413 if you stick to just New Horizons)

Yeah I misread the number and didn't see the extra 0. lol

In that case, I'd still put a hefty number in there, but even 100 is kinda too much memory to allocate to 1 assist trophy. I'd say probably 50 max, but probably more like 24 and have them rotate out each game like the Nintendogs.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Yeah I misread the number and didn't see the extra 0. lol

In that case, I'd still put a hefty number in there, but even 100 is kinda too much memory to allocate to 1 assist trophy. I'd say probably 50 max, but probably more like 24 and have them rotate out each game like the Nintendogs.

3 for each personality sounds reasonable for the idea.

 

[CosmicEternity44]

You know when I said that thing about Sakurai and the fans posting to him on X?

That aside, assuming he is not too busy, I think Sakurai, from now until the next Smash begins development, should look at fan requests to find out who he should add for the next Smash. Only it does not have to be from X, but maybe the still remaining runner ups from the ballot and other means?

 

[chocolatejr9]

You know when I said that thing about Sakurai and the fans posting to him on X?

That aside, assuming he is not too busy, I think Sakurai, from now until the next Smash begins development, should look at fan requests to find out who he should add for the next Smash. Only it does not have to be from X, but maybe the still remaining runner ups from the ballot and other means?

I still hope they'd at least consider a second ballot. A LOT has changed since the first ballot, in more ways than one...