Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[LiveStudioAudience]

Dixie's admittedly not had much recent relevance but that's entirely on Nintendo's relative neglect of the DK franchise. She might overall have the worst luck as character that once had a major spotlight.

-Unnecessarily replaced in DK64
-Highlighted in spin-offs in the aughts before but before Smash dug deep with DKC representation
-Doesn't even get in Mario spin-offs with Funky Kong getting the nod for Wii
-Finally gets showcased again in Tropical Freeze past the point of Smash 4's development
-Understandably loses out of K Rool in the Smash Ballot due to the latter's more critical status as the DK villain
-The Mario Kart Booster course pass grabs all the major Tour characters not in 8 Deluxe... but not her

Honestly the fact that she has any support given how dubiously she's been handled is a testament to just how much an impression she left in DKC2, 3, and (to a lesser extent) Tropical Freeze.

 

[Shinuto]

Dixie's admittedly not had much recent relevance but that's entirely on Nintendo's relative neglect of the DK franchise. She might overall have the worst luck as character that once had a major spotlight.

-Unnecessarily replaced in DK64
-Highlighted in spin-offs in the aughts before but before Smash dug deep with DKC representation
-Doesn't even get in Mario spin-offs with Funky Kong getting the nod for Wii
-Finally gets showcased again in Tropical Freeze past the point of Smash 4's development
-Understandably loses out of K Rool in the Smash Ballot due to the latter's more critical status as the DK villain
-The Mario Kart Booster course pass grabs all the major Tour characters not in 8 Deluxe... but not her

Honestly the fact that she has any support given how dubiously she's been handled is a testament to just how much an impression she left in DKC2, 3, and (to a lesser extent) Tropical Freeze.

Lol Dixie sucks, Tiny best girl Kong.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Correction: Only the original release did millions. The GBA remake didn't even crack 1 mil.

Source: what Opossum posted before when pointing out DK sales vs. Mario Kart Wii/8.
View attachment 394966

I was thinking about Land 3, but after checking it looks like the Land games didn't do as hot as I was remembering.
Oh well.

I agree that Dixie is a relative longstanding no brainer, but I’m not sure if it would be right to treat her as “contemporary”? Tropical Freeze is ported on Switch at least, but she hasn’t had a whole lot of new going on since Ultimate’s release. She gets to remain a somewhat active character via Mario Kart Tour and seems to have a role in the theme park, so maybe if we’re thinking more abstractly, but I don’t know if she’s the kind of evergreen face today that someone like King Dedede was in 2005-2006.

I don't want to dismiss Dedede but I'm not so sure about him being this super evergreen character back then. If you only stuck to home consoles (like I did) his only notable appearance between Superstar and Brawl was being a sidekick in Kirby 64, and Kirby as a series itself wasn't as popular as it is today. Even on the GBA he only appeared in the Kirby's Adventure remake I think?
K. Rool had more of an impact than him at that point imo.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I think Dedede being the second most notable character in the Kirby series pretty much guaranteed an inclusion. In some ways Meta Knight was a bit more of reach, albeit he didn't have that much diminished relevance in comparison to Dedede.

 

[Shinuto]

What post smash 64 character would you want to see in the smash 64 art style/model?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

What post smash 64 character would you want to see in the smash 64 art style/model?

I can't lie seeing notable PSX associated figures (Cloud, Sephiroth, Snake) would be genuinely interesting to view in the N64 engine.

 

[jamesster445]

What post smash 64 character would you want to see in the smash 64 art style/model?

All of them that technically have a low poly model. I'd even be down to see newer character who never had a low poly model like Joker re imagined with one.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I was thinking about Land 3, but after checking it looks like the Land games didn't do as hot as I was remembering.
Oh well.


I don't want to dismiss Dedede but I'm not so sure about him being this super evergreen character back then. If you only stuck to home consoles (like I did) his only notable appearance between Superstar and Brawl was being a sidekick in Kirby 64, and Kirby as a series itself wasn't as popular as it is today. Even on the GBA he only appeared in the Kirby's Adventure remake I think?
K. Rool had more of an impact than him at that point imo.

I was about to say that Dedede had an edge over K. Rool by being in a cartoon, but then I remembered

 

[SharkLord]

I said I had trouble thinking of characters like this, but I just realized Ashley definitely fits all of the criteria, and she's been around since WarioWare Touched in 2004, I think lol

Ashley's interesting to me because we saw her score in the top ten of Swamp's poll, and she's made consistent appearances in WarioWare so it's not like she has to worry about relevancy, but her support just isn't very vocal at the moment. I dunno, maybe she'll pick up a bit more when Smash 6 is announced and speculation properly heats back up again

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I don't know why Ultimate shortened/sped up so many victory themes. It made some of them feel incomplete.

 

[SharkLord]

I was thinking about Land 3, but after checking it looks like the Land games didn't do as hot as I was remembering.
Oh well.


I don't want to dismiss Dedede but I'm not so sure about him being this super evergreen character back then. If you only stuck to home consoles (like I did) his only notable appearance between Superstar and Brawl was being a sidekick in Kirby 64, and Kirby as a series itself wasn't as popular as it is today. Even on the GBA he only appeared in the Kirby's Adventure remake I think?
K. Rool had more of an impact than him at that point imo.

Eh, he was still pretty consistent. He showed up in every game from Dream Land to 64, usually as a lategame boss (Except for 64) and he was the most active villain of the show. He skipped Amazing Mirror, but he came back as a boss in Canvas Curse and Squeak Squad, as well as being a playable character in the former. Yeah, he was just the starter boss in Squeak Squad, but his appearance was hinged on the idea of "Hey, King Dedede's always the villain, he must be behind this!", only to subvert the usual formula with the titular Squeak Squad after you beat him. He was still pretty solidly the most recurring villain at that point in time, with Meta Knight shifting to a more heroic role by then and every other villain being a one-off. By the time Brawl released, Super Star Ultra was in the works and Dedede was planned to get a new story mode as an antagonist looking to settle his grudge with Kirby.

There was also the HR-D3 shown off for Kirby GCN trailers, which was certain in development at the time, but that thing was in development hell for a whole console generation so I don't know if that was actually counted in Sakurai's decision making.

 

[Noipoi]

I don't know why Ultimate shortened/sped up so many victory themes. It made some of them feel incomplete.

A lot of Ultimate’s design philosophy was devoted to increasing the pace, streamlining the process and getting you back to the action asap. That included making the victory themes take less time, which I don’t think was overly necessary.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Smash victory songs should at least be long enough to go with old TV production logos:

 

[Perkilator]

A lot of Ultimate’s design philosophy was devoted to increasing the pace, streamlining the process and getting you back to the action asap. That included making the victory themes take less time, which I don’t think was overly necessary.

This also hurt a lot of Final Smashes too, which ended up a lot of copy-paste cinematic supers. And it's not even like using the cinematic Final Smashes was even that fun anyway, since a lot of them required you to successfully hit your opponent in order for the Final Smash to even work.

 

[Shinuto]

A lot of Ultimate’s design philosophy was devoted to increasing the pace, streamlining the process and getting you back to the action asap. That included making the victory themes take less time, which I don’t think was overly necessary.

Yoshis now just feels f****** wrong

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I was thinking about Land 3, but after checking it looks like the Land games didn't do as hot as I was remembering.
Oh well.

I honestly deadass forgot Land 2 and 3 even existed.
I remember finding it odd Land 1 and the GBC Country 1 weren't listed but assumed they'd be negligible compared to the original SNES and GBA anyway.

 

[Guynamednelson]

A lot of Ultimate’s design philosophy was devoted to increasing the pace, streamlining the process and getting you back to the action asap. That included making the victory themes take less time, which I don’t think was overly necessary.

Well it doesn't feel like the victory animations are any faster if they really wanted to be devoted to that. I'd think having to shave off every last kilobyte they can to fit the game in a 16 GB Switch cartridge would be more to blame.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Yoshis now just feels f****** wrong

Honestly if I could give Yoshi a new one, I'd just remix the classic Yoshi's Island one for beating a stage and let the loop play out like it does for Cloud or Joker, sorta like they did on the Yoshi's Island course for Mario Kart 8 Deluxe lol

 

[CannonStreak]

Hey, I have a question for you all: If your most wanted character got in and another character from the same series came in alongside them, or of said other character got in over your most wanted (think Min Min over Spring Man) but was from the same series; either way, who would you want it to be and why?

For me, in terms of Crash Bandicoot, I would also like Dr. Neo Cortex to be playable if it were possible, or Ripto with Spyro.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Hey, I have a question for you all: If your most wanted character got in and another character from the same series came in alongside them, or of said other character got in over your most wanted (think Min Min over Spring Man) but was from the same series; either way, who would you want it to be and why?

For me, in terms of Crash Bandicoot, I would also like Dr. Neo Cortex to be playable if it were possible, or Ripto with Spyro.

Hyperdimension Neptunia should have Blanc over Neptune, since the first is based on the Wii.

 

[Shinuto]

Honestly if I could give Yoshi a new one, I'd just remix the classic Yoshi's Island one for beating a stage and let the loop play out like it does for Cloud or Joker, sorta like they did on the Yoshi's Island course for Mario Kart 8 Deluxe lol

Id vastly prefer this as that song is my childhood

 

[Laniv]

Yoshis now just feels f****** wrong

As an Ice Climbers player I feel your pain

 

[SharkLord]

This also hurt a lot of Final Smashes too, which ended up a lot of copy-paste cinematic supers. And it's not even like using the cinematic Final Smashes was even that fun anyway, since a lot of them required you to successfully hit your opponent in order for the Final Smash to even work.

I remember FK's Smash 4 FS being rather unintuitive as a kid, but I feel like we could still work extra inputs into the final smashes. Maybe a big "MASH B" prompt while you punch the crap out of someone, or holding B to charge up a giant laser. Y'know, Mario and Luigi style inputs, if nothing else (Though timed inputs probably won't work if we want to freeze your opponent like the cinematic Final Smashes)

 

[HyperSomari64]

FK

Fanjo Kazooie

 

[cashregister9]

I don't really mind the influx of Cutscene final smashes. I would prefer more unique ones but what we have I'm okay with

No what really bothers me is the fact that Peach and Daisy's FS is still here despite the changes made to Final Smashes across the board

I also truly hate Robin's Final Smash now that Chrom is here. Awakening Spoilers a Grima Final Smash literally makes itself

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

A lot of Ultimate’s design philosophy was devoted to increasing the pace, streamlining the process and getting you back to the action asap. That included making the victory themes take less time, which I don’t think was overly necessary.

It probably went something like this:

"We're shortening this segment so we need to make that little visual splash happen earlier."
"The visual splash happens earlier so we need to get rid of the dramatic pause and just say "[X Character] Wins!"."
"The music should sync with these two changes so lets shorten all the fanfares that meander about for a bit."
"You know how we gave Cloud that special post fanfare jingle since that's how it works in Final Fantasy? Yeah let's not give that to Inkling. They aren't DLC so no special treatment for them."

 

[Wonder Smash]

i’m just ready to move on from Ultimate. Not even just from the characters, but all the little things. The fact that it’s been years since we’ve seen a new stage from Kirby, DK or Metroid. The fact that we’ve been strapped with many of the same voicelines and victory jingles for over 15 years now. And yes, the hunger for more than just six Nintendo newcomers. I’m eager for the next Smash Bros to actually feel like a fresh new experience.

I won’t go kicking and screaming if we do just see a DX port with a handful of obligatory new stages and characters, largely unaltered gameplay and veteran movesets. But I will think we’re starting to flirt around with a furure where Smash gets stagnant and stale.

I wouldn't be surprised. But if a game like Smash Ultimate starts to finally feel stale, I can't really blame the series or Nintendo for that. I look at all these other companies that have so many great, memorable IPs and it's a shame none of them tried their hand at making a Smash-style game of their own at this point. We're no doubt going to be seeing a lot of the same things in the next Smash but imagine a crossover game from a company? One with series that are just as interesting as Nintendo's and the potential of guest characters it could have? That would be a real fresh experience and something else to look forward to besides just the next Smash.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Ashley's interesting to me because we saw her score in the top ten of Swamp's poll, and she's made consistent appearances in WarioWare so it's not like she has to worry about relevancy, but her support just isn't very vocal at the moment. I dunno, maybe she'll pick up a bit more when Smash 6 is announced and speculation properly heats back up again

Yeah give it until Smash 6 is officially announced and you'll see characters like Ashley prop back up in no time. There is a silent majority who don't really talk and gather in enthusiast forums like SB until they become relevant with a new game announcement.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Dixie's admittedly not had much recent relevance but that's entirely on Nintendo's relative neglect of the DK franchise. She might overall have the worst luck as character that once had a major spotlight.

-Unnecessarily replaced in DK64
-Highlighted in spin-offs in the aughts before but before Smash dug deep with DKC representation
-Doesn't even get in Mario spin-offs with Funky Kong getting the nod for Wii
-Finally gets showcased again in Tropical Freeze past the point of Smash 4's development
-Understandably loses out of K Rool in the Smash Ballot due to the latter's more critical status as the DK villain
-The Mario Kart Booster course pass grabs all the major Tour characters not in 8 Deluxe... but not her

Honestly the fact that she has any support given how dubiously she's been handled is a testament to just how much an impression she left in DKC2, 3, and (to a lesser extent) Tropical Freeze.

It's not surprising at all to me. DKC fans in general have a strong desire for Dixie cause she's part of the original trilogy and like DK and Diddy a star of her own title in the triology. DKC2 and Tropical Freeze also are the most critically acclaimed titles in the series, at least by fans. And Dixie is a beloved character in these games cause she makes playing these rather difficult platformers an easier experience due to her Helictoper Spin ability. I myself play Diddy exclusively, always, but it's an objective fact that playing as Dixie is the best option if you want to play it safe and easy.

Easy to miss these facts cause the most popular and well known games in the series are always gonna be DKC1 and Returns, and those star DK and Diddy alone but still. Us DKC fans know.

 

[fogbadge]

Hey, I have a question for you all: If your most wanted character got in and another character from the same series came in alongside them, or of said other character got in over your most wanted (think Min Min over Spring Man) but was from the same series; either way, who would you want it to be and why?

For me, in terms of Crash Bandicoot, I would also like Dr. Neo Cortex to be playable if it were possible, or Ripto with Spyro.

other characters from the same series get in over my most wanted all the time

 

[Swaggod7]

Nintendo, if want more cartoonish scrooge mcduck money pools you can just release old games people WANT as part of NSO like Mother 3. Oh, and don't just leave it in Japanese like you do with other games. Personally I think the top 1# priority for a game is that people can understand what the game says.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

The reps who folks are most excited for are boring.

My Top Most Wanted

codename : Legacy = XenoBlade Origins : protagonist
Noah + ( Mio = echo )
Officer Howard – Astral Chain
Iron Valiant ( Pokemon )
Tabuu

Vault Boy
Yumia ( Ryza = Alt ) = Atelier , via , Koei Tecmo
Harvard , from ; Deca Police
( Ahri & Lux ) - League of Legends , via Riot Games
Master Chief & Arbiter ( Halo )

We have different choices but I agree on the fact folks takes really safe bets with reps.

Echo fighters are just clones. They’ve been here since the very beginning with and because they’re so damn easy to develop.

They’re not going anywhere, and it’s ridiculous people are so vicious towards their inclusions.

Damn friggin' true! Say 'em, bro!
Clone characters have existed since the first Street Fighter 2 and have been a plague since then.
Luigi and Jigglypuff at least made some efforts to not be just Green Mario and Cat Kirby. Echo fighters are just clone characters without extra steps, Sakurai ain't foooling anyone by relabeling them. Same with Spirits: They are just stickers, like in Brawl, but without white borders.
I really hope the next Smash Bros. will feature some less disappointing gimmicks.

 

[Gorgonzales]

It's funny how seemingly desperate the final pre-release Ultimate Smash direct was in trying to make spirits seem like a cool fleshed-out universe of unique characters instead of a collection of 1000 or so PNGs that all pull from the same pool of 50 or so effects.

Like yeah bro... Louie, Wiggler, Helix, and the Pac-Man ghosts are my dream team, but seeing static images of them occasionally bounce up and down as they "hunt" for treasure doesn't really do it for me.

 

[chinkuru]

What post smash 64 character would you want to see in the smash 64 art style/model?

Well, thanks to Smah Remix I have already seen practically everyone I would like to see, maybe I would be missing Snake, Cloud, Diddy Kong and the Villager

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

On one hand yeah I really didn't get the crossover aspect of Spirits, but I do enjoy the references within the spirit battles themselves, a lot of them made me exhale through my nose with amusement. I did have fun when the spirits actually effected the WoL map, like getting Pico to ride in his F-Zero machine or getting ROB64 to repair the Great Fox. Spirits weren't perfect by any means but I felt like I did not feel very motivated to earn all the trophies in smash 4 either (but that could be more a reflection of generally not liking smash 4 as much as the rest of the series in general rather than a reflection of trophies.)

Also Spirits gave us this

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I still prefer spirits to the trophies we had in Brawl or Smash 4.

 

[Noipoi]

Spirit Battles are really fun and one of my favorite things Ultimate did, but I do miss the physical aspect and especially the unique descriptions of trophies.

I feel like there’s a good middle ground somewhere.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I just found it funny how much effort they put into Melee trophies, like they did not need to go this hard with Mach Rider. Im pretty sure Mach Rider would a zero supporters for smash if it wasnt for this trophy redesign lol. Makes me think of an alternate timeline where instead of reviving Kid Icarus after Pit's Brawl design, Sakurai revived Mach Rider with this design.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

This would be really weird to see in functional use for menus/stat bonuses, but if there is an insistence on utilizing pictures as opposed to 3D models, then maybe spirits could be represented by old/obscure art of the characters that Nintendo and various third parties have in the proverbial vaults. Lean into the museum aspect of Smash and make the formative pieces of older games essentially being critical again in the context of the main campaign/spirit battles.

 

[ninjahmos]

I still think it'd be pretty cool if they could take the PNGs from Spirits and the descriptions from Trophies, put them together and make them "Spirit Cards."