Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[fogbadge]

With how Bamco treats the series, it'd be nothing short of a miracle.
As in Nintendo/Sakurai would have to push for it.

toei gives them plenty of love

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

toei gives them plenty of love

Toei isn't going to be the one having to negotiate though.

 

[fogbadge]

Toei isn't going to be the one having to negotiate though.

I think toei must own some part of it, they’re always credited in the games

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

I'm fairly certain Snake has a move based on he does

also so does Ganondorf

Yeah they do. But they're very different characters compared to Emio.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I liked TotK, but none of the characters jumped out as notable Smash additions to me. The sages were good characters, but I didn't see anything that would make one stand out over the others, or over other Zelda characters in general.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I think toei must own some part of it, they’re always credited in the games

From what I can find, Toei owns exclusive rights to the anime projects. Bandai owns and controls the game and merch side of things. As for why Toei's always credited in the games, I'm not 100% certain on and can't find anything from my very basic searching, I just know Digimon's ownership is a really weird case lol

 

[fogbadge]

Yeah they do. But they're very different characters compared to Emio.

Point taken but ganondorf has technically done worse

From what I can find, Toei owns exclusive rights to the anime projects. Bandai owns and controls the game and merch side of things. As for why Toei's always credited in the games, I'm not 100% certain on and can't find anything from my very basic searching, I just know Digimon's ownership is a really weird case lol

video game ownership and licensing is certainly a complex topic

 

[Opossum]

I'm not entirely sure, but I think the Toei copyright might be there for any of the Digimon that were made for the anime that later got brought into the vpets and games. Or at least that's the reason that makes the most sense to me.

 

[fogbadge]

I'm not entirely sure, but I think the Toei copyright might be there for any of the Digimon that were made for the anime that later got brought into the vpets and games. Or at least that's the reason that makes the most sense to me.

that’s what I thought but they never specify

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I think toei must own some part of it, they’re always credited in the games

It's Bamco's IP. Toei just has anime rights and most media for the franchise especially nowadays takes from the anime side in some way or another, including artstyle and designs of the Digimon themselves.

Nintendo/Sakurai would have to work with both sides for that reason, but Bamco is the one that calls the shots on the game side.

To put in perspective, Bamco would be how Agumon gets in Smash to begin with. Toei would be how Smash gets Agumon's characterization as opposed to just being a growling snarling dinosaur.

 

[MBRedboy31]

I haven’t played Emio, but I did a bit of thought into how a “murderer” character could be made unique in a platform fighter and I thought of something interesting.

So, his attacks have almost no knockback scaling, so it’s basically impossible to ring people out the normal way aside from edgeguards. But, he’d have a few command grabs that outright KO the opponent without launching them if they are at high enough percent (kinda like how the Death’s Scythe item works.) I’d imagine in Smash he’d just put a paper bag on the opponent’s head and they‘d crumple over and then explode, just like if they died in Stamina Mode. His attacks would deal more hitstun at really really high percents so it becomes easier to combo into his finisher grabs. Sounds potentially terrifying to fight against, right?

 

[fogbadge]

I haven’t played Emio, but I did a bit of thought into how a “murderer” character could be made unique in a platform fighter and I thought of something interesting.

So, his attacks have almost no knockback scaling, so it’s basically impossible to ring people out the normal way aside from edgeguards. But, he’d have a few command grabs that outright KO the opponent without launching them if they are at high enough percent (kinda like how the Death’s Scythe item works.) I’d imagine in Smash he’d just put a paper bag on the opponent’s head and they‘d crumple over and then explode, just like if they died in Stamina Mode. His attacks would deal more hitstun at really really high percents so it becomes easier to combo into his finisher grabs. Sounds potentially terrifying to fight against, right?

Hmm grabs that can insta KO sounds broken to me

also we have several murderers on the roster

 

[MBRedboy31]

Hmm grabs that can insta KO sounds broken to me

also we have several murderers on the roster

Remember that this is the only way he can KO, since his attacks have basically no knockback growth, and it only works at high percent.

 

[fogbadge]

Remember that this is the only way he can KO, since his attacks have basically no knockback growth.

hmm, I’ve no idea if that would balance it out. I’ll leave it to everyone else

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I haven’t played Emio, but I did a bit of thought into how a “murderer” character could be made unique in a platform fighter and I thought of something interesting.

So, his attacks have almost no knockback scaling, so it’s basically impossible to ring people out the normal way aside from edgeguards. But, he’d have a few command grabs that outright KO the opponent without launching them if they are at high enough percent (kinda like how the Death’s Scythe item works.) I’d imagine in Smash he’d just put a paper bag on the opponent’s head and they‘d crumple over and then explode, just like if they died in Stamina Mode. His attacks would deal more hitstun at really really high percents so it becomes easier to combo into his finisher grabs. Sounds potentially terrifying to fight against, right?

So, are people making up movesets like this due to Emio just being a murderer or is this coming from the game itself?

No judgement, just legit curious here.

 

[fogbadge]

Wait remember spoilers when talking about Emio

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I haven’t played Emio, but I did a bit of thought into how a “murderer” character could be made unique in a platform fighter and I thought of something interesting.

So, his attacks have almost no knockback scaling, so it’s basically impossible to ring people out the normal way aside from edgeguards. But, he’d have a few command grabs that outright KO the opponent without launching them if they are at high enough percent (kinda like how the Death’s Scythe item works.) I’d imagine in Smash he’d just put a paper bag on the opponent’s head and they‘d crumple over and then explode, just like if they died in Stamina Mode. His attacks would deal more hitstun at really really high percents so it becomes easier to combo into his finisher grabs. Sounds potentially terrifying to fight against, right?

Making it so they can only get KOs at a specific percent unless they somehow edgeguard with little to no knockback I feel like would just inherently make the character worse off? I think this concept would somewhat depend on the percentage a character like that would need to reach, because 100% like most Final Smashes would probably be kinda crazy since it's pretty early, but too high a percent and they'd be awful because of how much work is required.

Not to mention, if their entire kit is about having very little knockback, then they'd likely become very easy to overwhelm with even slight pressure, especially depending on what kind of stats a character like Emio would have, who I wouldn't imagine would be very fast, though I haven't played the game so I don't know. I'm not sure if having very little knockback in a chaotic fighting game about knocking people off the stage would be a very desirable trait, basically lol

 

[MBRedboy31]

So, are people making up movesets like this due to Emio just being a murderer or is this coming from the game itself?

No judgement, just legit curious here.

As I said, I haven’t played the game. This is just based on the handful of official prerelease screenshots I’ve seen.

 

[Stratos]

Some see virtual pets as toys, but we all know that virtual pet is a subgenre of the simulation video game category, Digimon started as a virtual pet and that makes Digimon a video game franchise. Besides, as is known, it also belongs to Bandai Namco, which is also the company that develops the Super Smash Bros. series, so I would say that Agumon can easily come as a newcomer as long as Nintendo, Masahiro Sakurai and Bandai Namco agree to it.

 

[SPEN18]

Yikes on Rauru, though his case never rested on popularity anyway. He is IMO the most sensible option to represent strictly the Wild era, and has a ton of interesting moveset options. I voted for him, though that being said I also voted for other Zelda characters I'd like even more.

 

[Goombaic]

The takeaway for Emio should be that he would be awesome in Dead by Daylight and hysterically dissonant in Smash Bros.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

I haven’t played Emio, but I did a bit of thought into how a “murderer” character could be made unique in a platform fighter and I thought of something interesting.

So, his attacks have almost no knockback scaling, so it’s basically impossible to ring people out the normal way aside from edgeguards. But, he’d have a few command grabs that outright KO the opponent without launching them if they are at high enough percent (kinda like how the Death’s Scythe item works.) I’d imagine in Smash he’d just put a paper bag on the opponent’s head and they‘d crumple over and then explode, just like if they died in Stamina Mode. His attacks would deal more hitstun at really really high percents so it becomes easier to combo into his finisher grabs. Sounds potentially terrifying to fight against, right?

I think he should be an assist trophy to be honest. Ayumi however I think she has shot with some school activities like naginata and detective clubs. Also one of her specials better be a coffee mug that will make the player asleep. And her Final Smash would be The Girl Who Stands Behind.

 

[Ivander]

The takeaway for Emio should be that he would be awesome in Dead by Daylight and hysterically dissonant in Smash Bros.

If there is any Nintendo franchise that would be amazing for DbD and should happen for DbD first, it'd be Metroid. No contest. The SA-X as a Killer would bring back and bring about a new wave of PTSD, especially if they keep the Ice Beam.
But that said, Nintendo certainly has a cast of colorful characters that would be horrifying to see as killers in DbD in general.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

The SA-X with Anthony as a survivor is my number one pipe dream pick for DBD, especially if we can't get the Thing as one.

Second best killer choice from Nintendo is, of course, the Ultimate Chimera.

 

[jamesster445]

So, are people making up movesets like this due to Emio just being a murderer or is this coming from the game itself?

No judgement, just legit curious here.

In game, Emio killed by strangulation.

And I think designing with the mentality of making a fighter with "horror/serial killer" vibes the right way to design the character.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

You know, it is kinda funny to think about, even if he's not playable or anything...

We're gonna have a trophy/spirit/collectible of some kind of a murderer from an M-rated game in Smash, huh?

Just kinda funny to dwell on when I really sit down and think about it lol

 

[cashregister9]

You know, it is kinda funny to think about, even if he's not playable or anything...

We're gonna have a trophy/spirit/collectible of some kind of a murderer from an M-rated game in Smash, huh?

Just kinda funny to dwell on when I really sit down and think about it lol

I mean we already have 2 spirits of 2 different Dead By Daylight killers so it wouldn't really be that shocking at this point lmao

 

[chocolatejr9]

You know, it is kinda funny to think about, even if he's not playable or anything...

We're gonna have a trophy/spirit/collectible of some kind of a murderer from an M-rated game in Smash, huh?

Just kinda funny to dwell on when I really sit down and think about it lol

looks over at the RE Spirits

Yeah... funny...

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I mean we already have 2 spirits of 2 different Dead By Daylight killers so it wouldn't really be that shocking at this point lmao

That's true, but Emio isn't full of genetic mutation or vampirism (or a space pterodactyl like Ridley in terms of murderers), he's just a stone-cold, grounded, realistic serial killer, and Nintendo themselves made him. Like even if we got no third parties next game (impossible obviously but still), Emio would almost certainly still be in the game SOMEWHERE, and that's really funny to me and makes me really think about how wide of an IP pool Nintendo really is since Emio and something like Animal Crossing or Nintendogs would be in the same vicinity lmao

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Ironically, I brought up Digimon earlier today, and I see the WarGreymon mod had a recent update.

 

[Nickthebrick1]

So what is your guy's take on retro characters, specifically Takumaru, Excitebiker and Balloon Fighter? I know they were rejected for various reasons but those reasons today may not be solid as they were yesteryear. Takumaru's game is getting a release, besides, we got two ninja characters in the game, I'm really surprised we haven't gotten a samurai character yet.

The same applies of Excitebiker and BF. They're designs are more unique than a standard humanoid. One rides on a bike and the other uses balloons. I think Excitebiker can fight using BMX moves as well as obstacles from their own game to attack, I think Sakurai said the biggest problem they had was involving ramps into their game. Honestly, I think using it as an up B would be good enough.

BF is the hardest, not for moveset wise but rather how to implement that balloon mechanic. Maybe while they have the balloons out they become more floaty with reduced knockback, but if someone pops the balloons they be more receptive to knockback and have a fast fall speed until they return.

Any thoughts? I really hope we get more retro characters. Guys have any prospects of which retros might back it into SSB6?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The same applies of Excitebiker and BF. They're designs are more unique than a standard humanoid. One rides on a bike and the other uses balloons. I think Excitebiker can fight using BMX moves as well as obstacles from their own game to attack, I think Sakurai said the biggest problem they had was involving ramps into their game. Honestly, I think using it as an up B would be good enough.

Specifically, Sakurai had a hard time thinking how a character on a bike would platform around on the N64. Nowadays, I think we have the technology for whatever jump animation they want to give them.

And if they wanted to say "screw it, the bike is an item and you can't jump while riding it", they would be able to design a moveset around this gimmick, which is also something that I don't think would have been possible on the N64.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

That's true, but Emio isn't full of genetic mutation or vampirism (or a space pterodactyl like Ridley in terms of murderers), he's just a stone-cold, grounded, realistic serial killer, and Nintendo themselves made him. Like even if we got no third parties next game (impossible obviously but still), Emio would almost certainly still be in the game SOMEWHERE, and that's really funny to me and makes me really think about how wide of an IP pool Nintendo really is since Emio and something like Animal Crossing or Nintendogs would be in the same vicinity lmao

Yeah what makes Emio so creepy is that he's relatively realistic. He's just a really tall and large guy with a urge to kill and some sort of paper bag fetish.
And he kills by strangulation.
Not to mention (SPOILER) what's under his mask, like damn.
He'll most likely get a spirit/trophy/whatever the next game's collectible is, but he clashes so much even with guys like Ridley and Ganondorf that I can't see him even become an Assist Trophy.
And also, he doesn't really do enough stuff to fill up an entire moveset, though that's a secondary issue.

Closest thing to him would be Sephiroth, who also performs on-screen murder, but I don't know, Sephiroth is a lot more cartoony. Or more anime to be precise. Somewhat more innocuous anyways.

 

[Ivander]

You know, it was originally difficult to think what they would do with Balloon Fighter after both Villager's Up-Special and how to implement BF's Balloon mechanic without them heavily relying on it for recovery or being easy to disrupt/break the balloons. But then believe it or not, Tingle from Hyrule Warriors gave me an idea on how you could give Balloon Fighter a pretty different Up-Special recovery from Villager's.

For an Up-Special, Balloon Fighter could blow up an emergency giant balloon that gives Balloon Fighter a burst of vertical recovery before it explodes, putting Balloon Fighter into an automatic state of helplessness regardless of how many balloons he had before, but dealing damage to surrounding foes when it explodes. If Balloon Fighter has any other balloons when it is used, it gives slightly more vertical recovery and makes the explosion range slightly bigger for each one when it is used. And when used on the ground, blowing up the balloon when close to a foe catches and lifts them up where they get hit by the following explosion, allowing it as a potential combo finisher.

Something else that Balloon Fighter could do is a Special where by sacrificing a balloon or taking out a different emergency balloon, Balloon Fighter uses the force from the balloon blowing in the opposite direction to get a burst of speed in a direction and knock into a foe and for each Balloon available, Balloon Fighter can use that special again up to a certain number of times before becoming helpless. That can make it harder for foes to break the balloons to prevent Balloon Fighter from recovering, while sacrificing some floaty-ness in exchange for a burst of speed and a bit of knockback against potential edge guarders.

 

[SPEN18]

So what is your guy's take on retro characters, specifically Takumaru, Excitebiker and Balloon Fighter? I know they were rejected for various reasons but those reasons today may not be solid as they were yesteryear. Takumaru's game is getting a release, besides, we got two ninja characters in the game, I'm really surprised we haven't gotten a samurai character yet.

The same applies of Excitebiker and BF. They're designs are more unique than a standard humanoid. One rides on a bike and the other uses balloons. I think Excitebiker can fight using BMX moves as well as obstacles from their own game to attack, I think Sakurai said the biggest problem they had was involving ramps into their game. Honestly, I think using it as an up B would be good enough.

BF is the hardest, not for moveset wise but rather how to implement that balloon mechanic. Maybe while they have the balloons out they become more floaty with reduced knockback, but if someone pops the balloons they be more receptive to knockback and have a fast fall speed until they return.

Any thoughts? I really hope we get more retro characters. Guys have any prospects of which retros might back it into SSB6?

From the NES, Excitebike is the last major missing link in my view. If you go to the best seller list for the NES and cross out all third parties and games from series already having a character, look what's left. Aside from the sales, it has a lot of historical value thru its connections to Miyamoto, deep mechanics for a game of that time, and frequent recognition among some of the best of the NES; and it definitely would bring a moveset unlike anything else we currently have, with the technical limitations of the past likely alleviated enough for that mounted biker trick kit to be realized. Tbh not much holding it back besides needing a spot not filled by a recent character.

I think Takamaru would also bring a really cool set, though he's not really a banner character for the era so would probably depend more so on particular interest from the devs or some sort of modern revival.

There's also Ayumi, who you didn't mention, but at this point her inclusion would be just as much about the recent revivals as it would be about the NES so her case is a bit different.

Balloon Fighter, to be honest, I'm comfortable confining to being referenced by Villager (and keeping its stage). Though it does get fairly frequent recognition.

 

[ninjahmos]

What if, if Snake makes it into the next game, truly added Big Boss/Naked Snake as an alt, but with the camouflage, the eyepatch, etc.?

They probably wouldn't do it, but I think it'd be pretty cool if they also added Venom Snake as an alt.

 

[Diddy Kong]

So what is your guy's take on retro characters, specifically Takumaru, Excitebiker and Balloon Fighter? I know they were rejected for various reasons but those reasons today may not be solid as they were yesteryear. Takumaru's game is getting a release, besides, we got two ninja characters in the game, I'm really surprised we haven't gotten a samurai character yet.

The same applies of Excitebiker and BF. They're designs are more unique than a standard humanoid. One rides on a bike and the other uses balloons. I think Excitebiker can fight using BMX moves as well as obstacles from their own game to attack, I think Sakurai said the biggest problem they had was involving ramps into their game. Honestly, I think using it as an up B would be good enough.

BF is the hardest, not for moveset wise but rather how to implement that balloon mechanic. Maybe while they have the balloons out they become more floaty with reduced knockback, but if someone pops the balloons they be more receptive to knockback and have a fast fall speed until they return.

Any thoughts? I really hope we get more retro characters. Guys have any prospects of which retros might back it into SSB6?

It's about time for Takamaru I think. He's the one most discussed character in this criteria, by fans and Sakurai himself. I also think he translates best to a fighting game as Smash.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

So what is your guy's take on retro characters, specifically Takumaru, Excitebiker and Balloon Fighter? I know they were rejected for various reasons but those reasons today may not be solid as they were yesteryear. Takumaru's game is getting a release, besides, we got two ninja characters in the game, I'm really surprised we haven't gotten a samurai character yet.

The same applies of Excitebiker and BF. They're designs are more unique than a standard humanoid. One rides on a bike and the other uses balloons. I think Excitebiker can fight using BMX moves as well as obstacles from their own game to attack, I think Sakurai said the biggest problem they had was involving ramps into their game. Honestly, I think using it as an up B would be good enough.

BF is the hardest, not for moveset wise but rather how to implement that balloon mechanic. Maybe while they have the balloons out they become more floaty with reduced knockback, but if someone pops the balloons they be more receptive to knockback and have a fast fall speed until they return.

Any thoughts? I really hope we get more retro characters. Guys have any prospects of which retros might back it into SSB6?

Balloon Fighter was covered by Villager, as Stanley The Gardeneer (from Donley Kong 3) was covered by Mr.Game & Watch.
Personally I don't dislike the idea of old obscure characters or games becoming part of the moveset of another character.
If for example Urban Champion joins the roster, he could have EB as B forward, like Wario. Or The Arcade Bunny for that matter, that rabbit is so chaotic he could join the roster as a shapeshifter that turns into various forms of himself (big eyebrows dude, big animeish eyes girl, buff guy, real life rabbit, 8-bit pixellated character) like a comedy anime characters. Let's not forget about Mii fighters. They have always been a way to exploit charateres that didn't make into the roster. You add a EB costume, a bike forward move and he's covered.
Takamaru, on the other hand, is an eligible character by himself, as well as Samurai Goroh IMHO.
Speaking of other retro characters, I think Alex Kidd deserves to become a playable characters.
I have other two characters in mind but I think they are more fitting for the WTF character discussion.

 

[ninjahmos]

I really hope Takamaru makes it into the next game. Not only because he's a samurai and he has interesting moveset material, but also because, if he makes it in and if he's popular enough among fans, Nintendo may consider making a reboot of The Mysterious Murasame Castle (hopefully with the help of PlatinumGames and Grasshopper Manufacture).

 

[DarthEnderX]

So what is your guy's take on retro characters, specifically Takumaru, Excitebiker and Balloon Fighter?

I'd much prefer iconic 3P NES characters over Nintendo's D-listers.