Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[WeirdChillFever]

Daisy’s importance isn’t really what matters when it comes to her chances of returning, but rather the fact she has been the clear intended reference of Peach’s orange alt since Melee and the fact she has no gameplay differences from Peach, meaning she doesn’t have to be balanced against the roster if Peach is. She’s extremely low-effort and an easy way to pad out the Mario cast with a fan-favorite

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

But anyways, yes, using Smash 4 as a baseline is definitely random.
Either they're making everything from scratch and a Melee sized game is to be expected, or they're building the new game off Ultimate, in which case there's no reason to lose all that content.
Smash 4 used a ton of Brawl assets for characters and stages. It's not reflective of the amount of content an HD Smash game made from scratch would have.

This is a huuuuuge all or nothing statement, because there's no universe where Sakurai and his team decide to go from nearly 90 characters down to Melee's 25, nor is there a reason to build a new Smash game from complete scratch when the same team is making it that made Smash 4 and Ultimate and they have everything they've made in the past.

I also think there will be more of a focus on new content this game rather than the celebratory angle Ultimate went for, meaning in terms of things like stages, most will be brand new, and that plus upgrading the characters accordingly using Ultimate's models as a base with the Switch 2's likely graphical upgrade will make time a factor for a good number of characters. Not to mention adding newcomers, since Brawl added 15 (18 if counting transformations) and Smash 4 added 12-15 depending on how you count the Miis in base game, so probably around 12-15 as opposed to Ultimate's 6.

That's why I think next Smash will be in that sweetspot between 4 and Ult, because they're not gonna reboot the roster to like a redone 30 characters, but updating all this stuff takes time, so not everybody's gonna make it into the base game most likely and some of this will be assuaged with DLC vets.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

This is a huuuuuge all or nothing statement, because there's no universe where Sakurai and his team decide to go from nearly 90 characters down to Melee's 25, nor is there a reason to build a new Smash game from complete scratch when the same team is making it that made Smash 4 and Ultimate and they have everything they've made in the past.

Every time they used the previous game as a base the overall amount of content improved though.
Why would that stop now?

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Every time they used the previous game as a base the overall amount of content improved though.
Why would that stop now?

Because Sakurai literally said Everyone is Here happening again was super unlikely? I dunno what else you want me to say lol

Like if he changes his mind and number just goes up then fine but like that's just not sustainable long-term with all the relicensing and having a bigger and bigger workload every time you do it.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Because Sakurai literally said Everyone is Here happening again was super unlikely? I dunno what else you want me to say lol

Like if he changes his mind and number just goes up then fine but like that's just not sustainable long-term with all the relicensing and having a bigger and bigger workload every time you do it.

The number can go up even without everyone returning. Not everyone from Brawl reappeared in Smash 4 for example.

Everyone being so convinced that the follow-up to the most successful game in the series, best selling fighting game of all time, top 3 seller on Switch not counting the DLC packs, every single reveal for which was an event comparable to or even bigger than a full game's announcement and that is still ultra-beloved 6 years after its release, is when downscaling will finally happen is insane to me.

 

[SharkLord]

Personally I doubt we'll dip much lower than the 40-50 range. We'll almost inevitably see some downsizing, but unless we have a new director who specificlaly decide they want a hard reboot, I doubt they'll go much lower than that

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

The number can go up even without everyone returning. Not everyone from Brawl reappeared in Smash 4 for example.

Everyone being so convinced that the follow-up to the most successful game in the series, best selling fighting game of all time, top 3 seller on Switch not counting the DLC packs, every single reveal for which was an event comparable to or even bigger than a full game's announcement and that is still ultra-beloved 6 years after its release, is when downscaling will finally happen is insane to me.

I mean if we're not trimming down now (keep in mind for base game) then when? We're at like 90 characters right now, are we waiting until we crack a hundred first?

Also none of this second part means anything because aside from best selling fighting game of all time, it can apply to literally any Smash game. Smash 64 is number 5 on the N64, Melee topped the Gamecube sales chart, Brawl was like number 8 on the Wii, Smash for Wii U is fourth on the Wii U, and Ultimate is third. It's the most successful because the Switch itself is the third highest selling console of all time only beaten by the PS2 and the Nintendo DS, neither of which have a Smash game, not to mention its competition is still a new IP at the end of the N64's life, two Smash games on consoles that flopped, and a fighting game on the Wii. A Smash reveal and any newcomer reveals in a new game, lowered roster or not, would still be a huge event since they get dedicated trailers as of Smash 4.

 

[ShotoStar]

Personally I doubt we'll dip much lower than the 40-50 range. We'll almost inevitably see some downsizing, but unless we have a new director who specificlaly decide they want a hard reboot, I doubt they'll go much lower than that

I'm pretty much in the same line of thinking as SharkLord here. Especially given that from everything we know the team which developed Smash 4 & Ultimate will be returning for Smash 6. I forget the specifics but we have that Bandai-Namco Studio which (at the least) highly aligns with the prospects of developing Smash 6 and a good amount of Ult's staff will probably transfer to there. That would mean we have an experienced staff in handling the franchise which makes development for resources more productive and efficient, they understand what goes into the games and how to capitalize on the time afforded to them. Because of that they'd be able to keep as many characters and resources as possible while updating them to utilize the Switch 2's hardware. If I were to wager on how many cuts we'd get I'd probably say around 14-20 cuts max and half of those probably due to licensing agreements then the other half being dev time

 

[Oracle Link]

OK, so I just a had a thought…

Assuming Ganondorf gets a full-on overhaul in the form of TOTK for the next game, do you think they would still use one of his older designs (OOT or TP) as one of his alts?

They cant his bodytype is too diffrent for an alt!
However the next game should definitly have his warlock armour!

 

[DarthEnderX]

Am I the only person that prefers Giga Bowser as Bowser's Final Smash & a boss in Smash Bros. to any other "canon" Bowser form? It just makes sense for Smash to have an overarching, generic "Big Bowser" design rather than lean on one specific game.

I'm always going to prefer a faithful representation of something from the source game over a Smash OC.

Fury Bowser is easily Bowser's most monstrous and menacing canon design.

Fury Bowser was very likely a one-off anyway.

So were OoT Ganon, Marx and M3 Porky. Didn't stop them from being Bosses.

I know that Smash seems to be focusing solely on Street Fighter II for Ryu right now, but I kind of would like to hear some music from Street Fighter Alpha/Zero, Street Fighter III and Street Fighter IV.

I'd kill to have Volcanic Rim in Smash.

Like if he changes his mind and number just goes up then fine but like that's just not sustainable long-term with all the relicensing and having a bigger and bigger workload every time you do it.

With enough money, anything is sustainable!

 

[fogbadge]

So, are there any echo fighter vets you think are pretty darn likely to stay? I know people often cut them, but if they had to pick some echo fighters to work on during down time, which ones do you think would stay around?

well dark pit is returning for obvious reasons

Am I the only person that prefers Giga Bowser as Bowser's Final Smash & a boss in Smash Bros. to any other "canon" Bowser form? It just makes sense for Smash to have an overarching, generic "Big Bowser" design rather than lean on one specific game.

sounds more like an argument for having just giant bowser. no changes bar size

 

[Diddy Kong]

So, are there any echo fighter vets you think are pretty darn likely to stay? I know people often cut them, but if they had to pick some echo fighters to work on during down time, which ones do you think would stay around?

Lucina definitely. Due to Marth being a forever stay and her being an Echo yet bringing a lot of differences still in play style. That and her popularity in the Fire Emblem series.

I'd like to say the same about Chrom too. Yet him being a Roy Echo is a little less stable. I however therefore propose that Lucina and Chrom get to be Echoes of each other but with a newer move set based of FE Awakening.

I think Dark Pit and Dark Samus are more shaky cause they likely never will return in new entries, unless their respective games get remade. Which is a very likely scenario, but not yet confirmed to be a reality.

Daisy seems likely too. She's popular and appeared in Mario Wonder as a mainline playable character.

 

[cashregister9]

Because the game is releasing to rave reviews what is the opinion of Astro appearing in the next Smash bros.?

Personally I think Astro would be a great choice that is growing on me more and more as the days go on tbh. If done right Astro could be a perfect representation of the history of Playstation.

 

[NintenRob]

On the topic of character models, can we get a new one for Shulk please? His Ultimate one looks so bad, especially compared to the one he has in Xenoblade DE. I'd love to see him more in line with that game next time

 

[Gengar84]

On the topic of character models, can we get a new one for Shulk please? His Ultimate one looks so bad, especially compared to the one he has in Xenoblade DE. I'd love to see him more in line with that game next time

Yeah, he could definitely use a better model. I think the worst offender both in model and voice is Pokemon Trainer. I’m really not a fan of the male trainer’s voice at all. I much preferred his Brawl voice.

 

[Will]

I think Dark Pit and Dark Samus are more shaky cause they likely never will return in new entries, unless their respective games get remade.

Do you think Dark Pit is dead, or something?

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I'd enjoy it if Daisy was decloned so she feels more like herself. Make her ground-based instead of air-based, give her fast dash speed, and give her a third jump to reference Super Mario Run. Then give her petal and crystal attacks to reference the sports games and a few moves from Super Mario Land. She can still share some attacks with Peach, though.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

I'd enjoy it if Daisy was decloned so she feels more like herself.

A way to declone Daisy would be to make her moveset more similar to Melee's Peach's one.
Or maybe Peach wil be the one changing, influenced by her recent game.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

On the topic of character models, can we get a new one for Shulk please? His Ultimate one looks so bad, especially compared to the one he has in Xenoblade DE. I'd love to see him more in line with that game next time

I second this. There are a decent amount of characters that look horribly backlit during their victory animation, but Shulk is the worst one. It also makes his hair looks stupid if it's any color other than his usual blonde. I used to always use the Reyn pallete swap, but now I don't want to anymore because of it.

 

[Perkilator]

On the topic of character models, can we get a new one for Shulk please? His Ultimate one looks so bad, especially compared to the one he has in Xenoblade DE. I'd love to see him more in line with that game next time

Considering Monolith Soft did the reveal trailer for Pyra and Mythra, they should’ve just used Shulk’s DE model from the get go.

 

[Ivander]

Considering Monolith Soft did the reveal trailer for Oyra and Mythra, they should’ve just used Shulk’s DE model from the get go.

Except DE wasn't even made by the time Smash Ultimate came out. DE came out in 2020 around 2 years after Ultimate, so they couldn't at all.

 

[Perkilator]

Except DE wasn't even made by the time Smash Ultimate came out. DE came out in 2020 around 2 years after Ultimate, so they couldn't at all.

Except Pyra and Mythra were added to the game a little over two years after the base game launched, during which they were working on DE, so…I’m sorry, but I don’t see any excuses.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

Because the game is releasing to rave reviews what is the opinion of Astro appearing in the next Smash bros.?

Personally I think Astro would be a great choice that is growing on me more and more as the days go on tbh. If done right Astro could be a perfect representation of the history of Playstation.

I don't know but you brang on an important topic:
We don't know how many characters will be created before the launch of thr next Super Smash Bros. and how many will end up in the game, but I'd bet at least one in the main roster.

 

[Ivander]

Except Pyra and Mythra were added to the game a little over two years after the base game launched, during which they were working on DE, so…I’m sorry, but I don’t see any excuses.

Simple. Considering how long it took to port Pyra and Mythra's models because they are the same models from Xenoblade 2 and thus have a higher polygon count than any of the other playable characters, they weren't going to suddenly give Shulk a new model that probably had just any many polys to work out like Pyra and Mythra. Time is still very much a precious resource and they certainly weren't going to do anything that would've forced them to waste more time than they were wasting already.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Except Pyra and Mythra were added to the game a little over two years after the base game launched, during which they were working on DE, so…I’m sorry, but I don’t see any excuses.

I bet you the excuse was that Sakurai thought it was fine...I mean, he thought Wii Fit Trainer's manikin face was fine. lol

Although to be fair, it wasn't actually bad so much as it lacked appeal. Shulk's face actually does look bad when you zoom in, especially when you change his hair color or backlight him.

Speaking of, if the next game has a similar look to their victory animations, I really hope they stick the characters on their own lighting rather than have them use the lighting of the explosion effect behind them. Shulk is the worst one, but there are a few other characters that don't look all that great (Pokémon Trainer comes to mind) when backlit, and I think everyone would benefit from such a change.

 

[ShotoStar]

So, are there any echo fighter vets you think are pretty darn likely to stay? I know people often cut them, but if they had to pick some echo fighters to work on during down time, which ones do you think would stay around?

I think the most likely are Lucina and Daisy. I think Lucina will stay because her mechanic of being Marth without the tipper is worthwhile enough to come back as a "beginner friendly Marth" and from what I know she's surprisingly popular given people were initially disappointed she wasn't Chrom in Smash 4. I think Daisy will stay because she's also very popular within the core Super Mario cast and afaik her model is directly ripped from Peach's with slight changes making it easier to port over Daisy alongside Peach as Peach is basically a shoe-in for any Smash entry.

I think the next in-line wold be Chrom and Richter, I think Chrom is very in-line with Lucina in that he's also very popular given he's a main character from FE Awakening and was highly requested for both Smash 4 & Ultimate, I don't want to rely on the same argument for both Lucina and Chrom but really given that they go hand-in-hand for me I can't help but think of them similarly. The main reason I say Chrom is less likely than Lucina is because from everything we know Chrom seems less of a priority for the team given his lower-res model and that he was (likely) worked on as the last of or one of the last echo fighters. However, he's still very popular and I could see Sakurai working on him as third or fourth on the list. Richter I think would come back if Simon is coming back because they were advertised as a two-in-one package. Simon and Richter's movesets pull from one another's history and it would be weird to alienate one half of their fanbase for not much gain.

Then I think Ken would be the next likely because of his long and established history as a character, him being a very distinct echo fighter when comparing him with his counterparts and Sakurai making it a bigger deal that he's in the game than any other echo fighter. Sakurai seems to really like Ken as a character to the degree that he ended the base roster off with him and Incineroar so I could see Sakurai and co. liking Ken enough to put him middle of the road priority if not higher. Part of me wanted to put Ken as third most likely just because part of me believes that but Ken has outside factors maybe making him less likely such as possibly getting Chun-Li or another Street Fighter character next game and would the devs really want to have three Street Fighter characters in the roster? So on so forth.

Then Dark Pit and Dark Samus are just kind of there for me, I don't really know where to place them and in my mind they're very low priority. I don't think much about them at all so perhaps it's my own bias here to put them at dead last but I think three Kid Icarus characters is kind of overdoing it especially if we don't have any new entry in the Kid Icarus series for the foreseeable future. Pit and Palutena can stay I suppose but Dark Pit really feels unnecessary and Dark Samus is just meh, they don't seem to be coming back anytime soon in the Metroid franchise so they also seem low priority

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

On the topic of a duo character, what would you guys think about Nintendog + Cat as a concept? They'd "battle" by playing with toys, and following voice commands from a Duck Hunt style 4th wall breaking 3rd member of the trio. The dog could be a hyperactive rushdown (or at least, high mobility) character while the cat could be a slower, more methodical fighter who generally wants the dog to setup K.O.s for them.

EDIT: Or maybe they could both be setup characters, with the dog's combos setting up for the cat's finishers, and the cat's neutral tools setting up for the dog's combos (likely different combos that lead into cat moves). Then which one is used when would very much depend on the matchup.

 

[CannonStreak]

On the topic of a duo character, what would you guys think about Nintendog + Cat as a concept? They'd "battle" by playing with toys, and following voice commands from a Duck Hunt style 4th wall breaking 3rd member of the trio. The dog could be a hyperactive rushdown (or at least, high mobility) character while the cat could be a slower, more methodical fighter who generally wants the dog to setup K.O.s for them.

EDIT: Or maybe they could both be setup characters, with the dog's combos setting up for the cat's finishers, and the cat's neutral tools setting up for the dog's combos (likely different combos that lead into cat moves). Then which one is used when would very much depend on the matchup.

Ah, I remember making a moveset for Nintendo’s in particular once.

 

[fogbadge]

On the topic of a duo character, what would you guys think about Nintendog + Cat as a concept? They'd "battle" by playing with toys, and following voice commands from a Duck Hunt style 4th wall breaking 3rd member of the trio. The dog could be a hyperactive rushdown (or at least, high mobility) character while the cat could be a slower, more methodical fighter who generally wants the dog to setup K.O.s for them.

EDIT: Or maybe they could both be setup characters, with the dog's combos setting up for the cat's finishers, and the cat's neutral tools setting up for the dog's combos (likely different combos that lead into cat moves). Then which one is used when would very much depend on the matchup.

I like it

 

[Hypercat-Z]

Possible duo characters IMHO: Diddy Kong and Dixie Kong, Plusle and Minum, Lololo and Lalala, Cream and Cheese, Wolf Link and Midna.
Speaking of the last one, two other possible characters on their fours IMHO are Amaterasu and the goat from Goat Simulator.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

On the topic of a duo character, what would you guys think about Nintendog + Cat as a concept? They'd "battle" by playing with toys, and following voice commands from a Duck Hunt style 4th wall breaking 3rd member of the trio. The dog could be a hyperactive rushdown (or at least, high mobility) character while the cat could be a slower, more methodical fighter who generally wants the dog to setup K.O.s for them.

EDIT: Or maybe they could both be setup characters, with the dog's combos setting up for the cat's finishers, and the cat's neutral tools setting up for the dog's combos (likely different combos that lead into cat moves). Then which one is used when would very much depend on the matchup.

This is a good concept for a character, I just have never really liked the idea of Nintendogs being playable in Smash because like it's one thing to put a cartoon dog in cartoon violence like Duck Hunt, but Nintendogs are designed to be as realistic/true to life as possible, so I don't feel good about the ethics of beating the hell out of a real Golden Retriever or whatever breed they'd use lol

 

[Noipoi]

On the topic of a duo character, what would you guys think about Nintendog + Cat as a concept? They'd "battle" by playing with toys, and following voice commands from a Duck Hunt style 4th wall breaking 3rd member of the trio. The dog could be a hyperactive rushdown (or at least, high mobility) character while the cat could be a slower, more methodical fighter who generally wants the dog to setup K.O.s for them.

EDIT: Or maybe they could both be setup characters, with the dog's combos setting up for the cat's finishers, and the cat's neutral tools setting up for the dog's combos (likely different combos that lead into cat moves). Then which one is used when would very much depend on the matchup.

Good concept, but I simply do not want to Falcon Punch a realistic cute little puppy.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

Good concept, but I simply do not want to Falcon Punch a realistic cute little puppy.

If I'm not wrong that exactly the reason they skipped the idea of having the Nintendogs as alts for The Duck Hunt Dog.
Do you think the next Smash will have a Nintencat as AT instead of a Nintendog?

 

[Guynamednelson]

If I'm not wrong that exactly the reason they skipped the idea of having the Nintendogs as alts for The Duck Hunt Dog.

Or maybe it's because the Duck Hunt dog isn't a Nintendog.

 

[fogbadge]

If I'm not wrong that exactly the reason they skipped the idea of having the Nintendogs as alts for The Duck Hunt Dog.
Do you think the next Smash will have a Nintencat as AT instead of a Nintendog?

I think it was the reason they weren’t in brawl. first I’ve heard about them being alts

 

[Laniv]

I don't think Sakurai said anything about the Nintendog being alts for the Duck Hunt dog. Most likely it didn't happen because it wouldn't work.

But he did bring up a Nintendog as a character that couldn't plausibly fight, alongside a certain someone:

And we all know how that turned out.

 

[SPEN18]

Yeah just on merit nintendogs should absolutely have a playable spot. It's just a matter of whether we can cartoonize it enough that it's acceptable for a fighting game but still actually serves as an effective representation of the games. Like, it couldn't be as cartoony as Duck Hunt, but there is a lot of territory between that and total realism. If the series had continued at the lucrative rate that it once had, I wonder if such a solution would've been eventually afforded it. Perhaps those ideas of playing with toys and following voice commands could be a start at least for how the dog would attack.

 

[Dukefire]

I don't think Sakurai said anything about the Nintendog being alts for the Duck Hunt dog. Most likely it didn't happen because it wouldn't work.

But he did bring up a Nintendog as a character that couldn't plausibly fight, alongside a certain someone:

View attachment 394021

And we all know how that turned out.

Yeah....

 

[Gorgonzales]

Not every series is appropriate for a playable character, nor does every series explicitly need a playable character. You can lack a fighter and still have great representation in other areas like stages, music, assists, etcetera.

For Animal Crossing, they're all stylized humans and animals, and you get up to cartoon shenanigans in that series anyway, so to see them in Smash is believable and not super jarring.

Nintendogs are just real-ass dogs. I don't want to beat up a real-ass dog.

Or a real-ass cat. You make me do that, I'm forfeiting the match.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

In an odd compromise Nintendogs + Cats will get in as a Smash fighter... but the actual literal games themselves, with the fighter made of DS/3DS game cases.