Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Yeah just on merit nintendogs should absolutely have a playable spot. It's just a matter of whether we can cartoonize it enough that it's acceptable for a fighting game but still actually serves as an effective representation of the games. Like, it couldn't be as cartoony as Duck Hunt, but there is a lot of territory between that and total realism. If the series had continued at the lucrative rate that it once had, I wonder if such a solution would've been eventually afforded it. Perhaps those ideas of playing with toys and following voice commands could be a start at least for how the dog would attack.

There is a lot of territory between the two, but the Nintendogs and cats are designed to be real-life animals that you adopt and care for since the series is a pet simulator. When the design of the Nintendogs themselves are just straight up real dogs, there's not much you can do to ease the idea of setting them on fire or hitting them with a bat.

Animal Crossing has such stylized designs that it creates a huge disconnect, and the same goes for Duck Hunt who's more of a typical Looney Tunes-esque depiction of a dog in terms of expressiveness.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

The only way we're getting a Nintendog fighter is if it's a RoboPup.

We will not be in a position where we can harm a photorealistic dog or cat.

 

[Laniv]

Ah, I remember making a moveset for Nintendo’s in particular once.

Was that you that did the moveset where "the Nintendog is guided by a small hand that takes all the damage for it"? I think I might remember that one.

The only way we're getting a Nintendog fighter is if it's a RoboPup.

We will not be in a position where we can harm a photorealistic dog or cat.

You know, I never considered the RoboPup but I feel like that's the best compromise for a Nintendogs fighter. I actually kinda want this now

 

[fogbadge]

Is beating up realistic animals really worse than beating up realistic humans? I mean we don’t have any realistic humans on the roster but a lot of you guys support them

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Is beating up realistic animals really worse than beating up realistic humans? I mean we don’t have any realistic humans on the roster but a lot of you guys support them

The fact you even make that comparison is disturbing.

 

[Laniv]

Is beating up realistic animals really worse than beating up realistic humans? I mean we don’t have any realistic humans on the roster but a lot of you guys support them

Snake and Simon. Kazuya if you ignore the demon transformation

 

[Guynamednelson]

Is beating up realistic animals really worse than beating up realistic humans? I mean we don’t have any realistic humans on the roster but a lot of you guys support them

Those realistic humans have more combat experience than a newborn puppy.

Oh and if anyone's still worried about said realistic humans no longer having a chance because of ESRB/PEGI/CERO shenanigans:

All Cameo Bots in Astro Bot

Most of the Astro Bot cameo characters are pretty easy to identify, but there are a few VIP Bots who are obscure and thus can be difficult to place.

gamerant.com

The newly-released Astro Bot has bots based on T/M-rated games while retaining family friendly ratings.

 

[Noipoi]

Is beating up realistic animals really worse than beating up realistic humans? I mean we don’t have any realistic humans on the roster but a lot of you guys support them

Humans and anthropomorphic animal characters can consent to getting the **** beat out of them in a tournament setting. Normal animals cannot.

 

[BritishGuy54]

Those realistic humans have more combat experience than a newborn puppy.

Oh and if anyone's still worried about said realistic humans no longer having a chance because of ESRB/PEGI/CERO shenanigans:

All Cameo Bots in Astro Bot

Most of the Astro Bot cameo characters are pretty easy to identify, but there are a few VIP Bots who are obscure and thus can be difficult to place.

gamerant.com

The newly-released Astro Bot has bots based on T/M-rated games while retaining family friendly ratings.

The issue was never the characters appearing at all, right? It was about referencing their game(s) of origin, which Smash Bros. struggled with when FP2’s Mii costumes got caught in the crossfire.

If Astro Bot explicitly references a series’s name or game in game, then there’s no problem. If it’s just a costume and nothing else, we’ve still got to keep an eye out on what it truly means.

 

[fogbadge]

The fact you even make that comparison is disturbing.

it is? why?

Snake and Simon. Kazuya if you ignore the demon transformation

everything I know about them definitely excludes them

Those realistic humans have more combat experience than a newborn puppy.

Oh and if anyone's still worried about said realistic humans no longer having a chance because of ESRB/PEGI/CERO shenanigans:

All Cameo Bots in Astro Bot

Most of the Astro Bot cameo characters are pretty easy to identify, but there are a few VIP Bots who are obscure and thus can be difficult to place.

gamerant.com

The newly-released Astro Bot has bots based on T/M-rated games while retaining family friendly ratings.

maybe I’ve been playing Pokemon too long

or maybe I’m too focused on the other side of beating up bowser and Ridley with a puppy

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

Those realistic humans have more combat experience than a newborn puppy.

Oh and if anyone's still worried about said realistic humans no longer having a chance because of ESRB/PEGI/CERO shenanigans:

All Cameo Bots in Astro Bot

Most of the Astro Bot cameo characters are pretty easy to identify, but there are a few VIP Bots who are obscure and thus can be difficult to place.

gamerant.com

The newly-released Astro Bot has bots based on T/M-rated games while retaining family friendly ratings.

Oh this reminds me of something I was wondering about.

Random thought but Astro Bot coming out in a few months will probably give another good idea of how Square handles crossovers, cause that's another big multi-company crossover celebrating PlayStation. Astro's Playroom had an FF7 appearance, but it was specifically just the Buster Sword without an actual appearance from a Cloud Bot, while every other game either had its protagonist represented in bot form or was actually played on a screen in-game. Astro Bot is supposed to have over 150 cameos, so I'm interested to see if they'll actually get permission to depict Cloud directly this time.

Checking through the list, it seems like no Square Enix property is featured as an actual bot, though the Buster Sword cameo might still be in. Take that as you will lol.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Checking through the list, it seems like no Square Enix property is featured as an actual bot, though the Buster Sword cameo might still be in. Take that as you will lol.

I mean Square has been moving away from PlayStation a bit lately (or at least has been saying as much with the "open relationship" thing they talked about) because console exclusivity on PlayStation lately has been beating Square's *** with like a 70% profit loss, which has them redirecting into a multiplatform strategy which almost inevitably includes Nintendo because obviously Microsoft has no presence in their home region and Microsoft isn't crazy on RPG stuff anyway lol

Dunno if it'd necessarily affect cameos in Astro Bot, but who knows lol

 

[Noipoi]

Astrobot

What are his odds at getting into Smash?

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

I mean Square has been moving away from PlayStation a bit lately (or at least has been saying as much with the "open relationship" thing they talked about) because console exclusivity on PlayStation lately has been beating Square's *** with like a 70% profit loss, which has them redirecting into a multiplatform strategy which almost inevitably includes Nintendo because obviously Microsoft has no presence in their home region and Microsoft isn't crazy on RPG stuff anyway lol

Dunno if it'd necessarily affect cameos in Astro Bot, but who knows lol

I def strongly doubt that's the reason lol, we actually know Astro Bot has been in development for 3 years and that stuff like the Crash and Spyro bots were added before Activision was purchased by Microsoft, you can tell all the bot cameos were decided early on. Square Enix's multi-platform pivot only happened very very recently, the year started with them launching Rebirth, which was a major headline PS5 exclusive.

I would also say Microsoft's lack of presence in Japan is overstated sometimes, it has a market share, just not a very big one. It's treated as if it's non-existent when even just recently it had a major uptick in Japanese sales charts because people were buying it as an alternative to the PS5. Ultimately if the Switch 2 still isn't powerful enough to run Square's biggest games and Microsoft still has a market share globally, it's likely they'll come to Xbox as well. An FFXVI Xbox port has been rumoured for a good minute now, and Phil Spencer went out of his way to court FFXIV for Xbox. This is all more unrelated though, and to be clear I'm sure Square will make a big push for putting the titles that can run on the Switch 2 on the platform.

 

[Laniv]

Astrobot

What are his odds at getting into Smash?

This is a first-party PlayStation thing, right? If so... the odds ain't looking good

 

[fogbadge]

Humans and anthropomorphic animal characters can consent to getting the **** beat out of them in a tournament setting. Normal animals cannot.

I’m fairly certain most of the Pokémon and the cartoon dog we do have can’t consent either

Astrobot

What are his odds at getting into Smash?

non existent

 

[Guynamednelson]

The issue was never the characters appearing at all, right? It was about referencing their game(s) of origin, which Smash Bros. struggled with when FP2’s Mii costumes got caught in the crossfire.

If Astro Bot explicitly references a series’s name or game in game, then there’s no problem. If it’s just a costume and nothing else, we’ve still got to keep an eye out on what it truly means.

The bots are referred to with nicknames instead of actually naming the character they're dressed as, IE the Solid Snake bot is "Legendary Mercenary", the Kazuya bot is "Cold-Blooded Oppressor". That said, most of the God of War bots are found in a level called "Bot of War", which is obviously a play on the game's name but I have no idea if it actually namedrops God of War or any other M-rated game's name.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

Astrobot

What are his odds at getting into Smash?

If he has this as an alt costume, 100%. I know with full faith that Sakurai will not fail the Bloodborne agenda

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I would also say Microsoft's lack of presence in Japan is overstated sometimes, it has a market share, just not a very big one. It's treated as if it's non-existent when even just recently it had a major uptick in Japanese sales charts because people were buying it as an alternative to the PS5. Ultimately if the Switch 2 still isn't powerful enough to run Square's biggest games and Microsoft still has a market share globally, it's likely they'll come to Xbox as well. An FFXVI Xbox port has been rumoured for a good minute now, and Phil Spencer went out of his way to court FFXIV for Xbox. This is all more unrelated though, and to be clear I'm sure Square will make a big push for putting the titles that can run on the Switch 2 on the platform.

Continuing on this point, I think Square's newest games will be playable on Switch 2. I remember that one rumor about that updated port of BotW and FF7R getting shown on Switch 2 at Gamescom and apparently the FF7R port took like no time, so IF that's true (emphasis on if of course lol), then I would think it would be fine.

And Microsoft has some presence sure, but even after the massive boost recently it's still only like 600k Xbox sold in Japan split nearly evenly between the Series X and Series S, which is small potatoes compared to the other two lol

 

[Noipoi]

I’m fairly certain most of the Pokémon and the cartoon dog we do have can’t consent either

Eeeeeh it’s kinda not the same.

It’s shown that Pokemon enjoy battling as a competitive sport, and it’s established that they’re more intelligent and aware than a normal animal. Some of them are smarter than the average person.

And with Duck Hunt Dog, he’s essentially a Looney Tune. Cartoon animals are no stranger to cartoon violence.

The issue with a Nintendog is that it’s a photorealistic dog, that presumably has the intelligence and awareness of an actual real life dog. It just wouldn’t look or feel good to attack that thing.

 

[fogbadge]

Eeeeeh it’s kinda not the same.

It’s shown that Pokemon enjoy battling as a competitive sport, and it’s established that they’re more intelligent and aware than a normal animal. Some of them are smarter than the average person.

And with Duck Hunt Dog, he’s essentially a Looney Tune. Cartoon animals are no stranger to cartoon violence.

The issue with a Nintendog is that it’s a photorealistic dog, that presumably has the intelligence and awareness of an actual real life dog. It just wouldn’t look or feel good to attack that thing.

well yes I suppose I can understand that but I don’t get why people wouldn’t feel the same about beating up a realistic human.

anyway someone else pointed out that the dog wouldn’t have to be photorealistic, we could find a look we’d be ok with where’s it’s no different from beating the cartoon baby mouse on the roster

 

[Noipoi]

well yes I suppose I can understand that but I don’t get why people wouldn’t feel the same about beating up a realistic human.

anyway someone else pointed out that the dog wouldn’t have to be photorealistic, we could find a look we’d be ok with where’s it’s no different from beating the cartoon baby mouse on the roster

Well first of all I just don’t like seeing animals getting hurt. But also, like I said a little earlier:

Humans and anthropomorphic animal characters can consent to getting the **** beat out of them in a tournament setting. Normal animals cannot.

It can be assumed that the humans in Smash want to be there. They’re competing. It’s no different than a boxing match or a martial arts tournament. We can also assume that the non-human characters want to be here as well, because they portray a human level of thought.

A normal dog doesn’t have that higher level of thinking, it wouldn’t be able to understand why it’s being attacked and would likely fear for its life. It’s why animal fighting rings are illegal, the animals simply cannot consent to being there and doing what they’re doing. Not to mention all the gross mistreatment of the animals, but that’s a different point.

And yes, it’s a video game. They could just show that the dog is having fun and isn’t scared, but I dunno man. It’d still feel icky to me.

 

[Dukefire]

If Astro Bot is bringing back the mascots for sony in the past. I wonder if some will ever find closure and/or even return to the spotlight. I haven't play the Sly Cooper games growing up, but I do feel bad after the cliffhanger that won't wrap up the story.....

 

[DarthEnderX]

A way to declone Daisy would be to make her moveset more similar to Melee's Peach's one.
Or maybe Peach wil be the one changing, influenced by her recent game.

Just have her use some of Peach's custom moves from Smash 4.

Dark Pit, Dark Samus and Lucina should also do that.

 

[fogbadge]

Well first of all I just don’t like seeing animals getting hurt. But also, like I said a little earlier:

It can be assumed that the humans in Smash want to be there. They’re competing. It’s no different than a boxing match or a martial arts tournament. We can also assume that the non-human characters want to be here as well, because they portray a human level of thought.

A normal dog doesn’t have that higher level of thinking, it wouldn’t be able to understand why it’s being attacked and would likely fear for its life. It’s why animal fighting rings are illegal, the animals simply cannot consent to being there and doing what they’re doing. Not to mention all the gross mistreatment of the animals, but that’s a different point.

And yes, it’s a video game. They could just show that the dog is having fun and isn’t scared, but I dunno man. It’d still feel icky to me.

I can mostly follow that logic.

I do get we got to draw the line somewhere but it wherever it is it’s going to seem weird.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

anyway someone else pointed out that the dog wouldn’t have to be photorealistic, we could find a look we’d be ok with where’s it’s no different from beating the cartoon baby mouse on the roster

You could, but considering the Assist Trophy and the animals in the background of Living Room have always been portrayed this way plus the Stickers in Brawl and the Spirits in Ultimate are basically just real photos of dogs, if a Nintendog did end up on the roster they'd probably still just look like a real dog since the team typically makes characters look how they would in their home series minus the individual game's aesthetic, like how Incineroar has way more fur effects going on than in his home series.

 

[fogbadge]

You could, but considering the Assist Trophy and the animals in the background of Living Room have always been portrayed this way plus the Stickers in Brawl and the Spirits in Ultimate are basically just real photos of dogs, if a Nintendog did end up on the roster they'd probably still just look like a real dog since the team typically makes characters look how they would in their home series minus the individual game's aesthetic, like how Incineroar has way more fur effects going on than in his home series.

shame. I feel like we should have a few more cats and dogs on the roster

 

[SPEN18]

You could, but considering the Assist Trophy and the animals in the background of Living Room have always been portrayed this way plus the Stickers in Brawl and the Spirits in Ultimate are basically just real photos of dogs, if a Nintendog did end up on the roster they'd probably still just look like a real dog since the team typically makes characters look how they would in their home series minus the individual game's aesthetic, like how Incineroar has way more fur effects going on than in his home series.

For things like the Living Room, AT, and etc. there was really no motivation to change them since they're not fighting. Doesn't mean they couldn't change the appearance in a future game, esp. if necessitated by a new role in the game. You say characters in Smash are portrayed "minus the individual game's aesthetic," which is exactly what we're talking about; you could alter the aesthetic of the source while still making reference to nintendogs gameplay, items, and etc. Whether or not the result would be a good representation of nintendogs is subject to debate, though, sure, and is also going to depend on what people are personally comfortable with. To be clear, I don't think it would actually happen, but it's interesting for theoretical considerations of the scope of what is representable thru Smash.

 

[Shinuto]

I wish we had more proper MASCOTS in Smash. and yes I know we have a lot already but I want MORE.

Sony should have a mascot, Microsoft, I want Smash to truly celebrate gaming, and to me that means celebrating even their competitors.

But Sony doesnt really HAVE a mascot. Microsoft has Master Chief, but I also would like to see other mascots for companies.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The image in my head: Cute puppy who fights by doing tricks and spinning around as the owner uses the bubble blower on them.
The actual concept: Literal real life dog fighting, the character, but with physics that don't make sense.

Yeah I can see why the idea has such a visceral ick factor.

 

[Laniv]

I wish we had more proper MASCOTS in Smash. and yes I know we have a lot already but I want MORE.

Sony should have a mascot, Microsoft, I want Smash to truly celebrate gaming, and to me that means celebrating even their competitors.

But Sony doesnt really HAVE a mascot. Microsoft has Master Chief, but I also would like to see other mascots for companies.

Sony had a mascot once. Mascots, plural, if I remember correctly. But they all got cast aside and now Sony complains that "they don't have enough original IP"

Sony Doesn't Have Enough Original IP, Says Company Leadership - PlayStation LifeStyle

Sony leadership reckons that the company doesn't have enough original IP, including its PlayStation division.

www.playstationlifestyle.net

Every day I mourn the loss of Ape Escape

 

[CannonStreak]

Was that you that did the moveset where "the Nintendog is guided by a small hand that takes all the damage for it"? I think I might remember that one.


You know, I never considered the RoboPup but I feel like that's the best compromise for a Nintendogs fighter. I actually kinda want this now

Honestly, I don't think I had the small hand idea in my moveset for the character.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

You say characters in Smash are portrayed "minus the individual game's aesthetic," which is exactly what we're talking about; you could alter the aesthetic of the source while still making reference to nintendogs gameplay, items, and etc.

That's my point though, you can alter the aesthetic to match Smash but even with the fur effects, lighting effects, and more realistic fire, Incineroar still LOOKS like Incineroar, so a Nintendog would look like a Nintendog (aka a realistic puppy) no matter what aesthetics a Smash game would apply to their textures because they've always just been real dogs in Nintendogs.

The degree to which you'd have to alter a Nintendog's design for me to be okay fighting them is way more than I expect the Smash team would ever do, and even if they did, they'd be basically making Duck Hunt again lol

 

[HyperSomari64]

I wish we had more proper MASCOTS in Smash. and yes I know we have a lot already but I want MORE.

Sony should have a mascot, Microsoft, I want Smash to truly celebrate gaming, and to me that means celebrating even their competitors.

But Sony doesnt really HAVE a mascot. Microsoft has Master Chief, but I also would like to see other mascots for companies.

**** Mega Man! It's time for Captain Commando to shine!

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

Sony had a mascot once. Mascots, plural, if I remember correctly. But they all got cast aside and now Sony complains that "they don't have enough original IP"

Sony Doesn't Have Enough Original IP, Says Company Leadership - PlayStation LifeStyle

Sony leadership reckons that the company doesn't have enough original IP, including its PlayStation division.

www.playstationlifestyle.net

Every day I mourn the loss of Ape Escape

I mean this comment was in the context of PlayStation expanding their IP into other medium, and cause of that I think it's worth keeping in mind that Sony has tried turning pretty much everything they have into a movie or series lol. They were planning a Sly Cooper movie and Infamous movie. They made a Twisted Metal TV series. They're making a Gravity Rush movie, which is absolutely an IP everybody considers dead and which people are longing for Sony to bring back. Those comments make way more sense when you realise that, Sony absolutely is turning pretty much everything they own into multi-media productions and shaking the whole barrel for it.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Kratos is the closest Sony has to a mascot at the moment.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Those realistic humans have more combat experience than a newborn puppy.

Oh and if anyone's still worried about said realistic humans no longer having a chance because of ESRB/PEGI/CERO shenanigans:

All Cameo Bots in Astro Bot

Most of the Astro Bot cameo characters are pretty easy to identify, but there are a few VIP Bots who are obscure and thus can be difficult to place.

gamerant.com

The newly-released Astro Bot has bots based on T/M-rated games while retaining family friendly ratings.

Look, I get the ESRB thing is a hot topic around here, but I gotta get this off my chance: whoever managed to convince Sony acknowledge Rogue Galaxy, Dark Cloud, Mad Maestro!, AND Mister Mosquito in the year 2024 deserves a MASSIVE raise. Like, DANG those are some deep cuts. Makes me almost want Astro Bot in Smash for the alt costume potential.

Almost. I've never actually played the Astro Bot games...

 

[HyperSomari64]

I really wish Astro Bot had cameos for Noire and Uni from Hyperdimension Neptunia (since they are based on PlayStation 3 and PlayStation Portable, respectively)

 

[DarthEnderX]

Kratos is the closest Sony has to a mascot at the moment.

That was true up until, like, last week.

It's Astro Bot now.

 

[Nickthebrick1]

Eeeeeh it’s kinda not the same.

It’s shown that Pokemon enjoy battling as a competitive sport, and it’s established that they’re more intelligent and aware than a normal animal. Some of them are smarter than the average person.

And with Duck Hunt Dog, he’s essentially a Looney Tune. Cartoon animals are no stranger to cartoon violence.

The issue with a Nintendog is that it’s a photorealistic dog, that presumably has the intelligence and awareness of an actual real life dog. It just wouldn’t look or feel good to attack that thing.

I agree, but the problem here is just the apperance of the hit animations right? What if during the hit animations, the dog dodges it or plays around while mechanically it gains damage. Then the knockback could just be it just jumping away unharmed. The youtuber Brawlfan1 did a similar thing for the Untitled Goose in a what if __ was in smash videos.