Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[fogbadge]

2) I like demifiend because he's an almighty supernatural being that can destroy gods, and he just wears some cool sneakers and shorts.

Ness?

 

[BritishGuy54]

I agree than in 2024 the original 12 would be completely diferent, but Smash Bros. 64 was made in 1999 and the choices made from the roster that day are still relevant to Smash Bros. as those 12 characters have never been cut and are legacy veteran characters at this point, them begin sensible choices in 2024 doesn't really matter anymore.
I personally think you shouldn't remove any of them if you can avoid it, they're part of Smash Bros identity at this point, Ness, Falcon, Jigglypuff, removing them would feel really wrong.
It's like removing Drackies, Chimaera Wings or Metal Slimes in a future Dragon Quest game, it would feel wrong, they've been there since the beginning, they're still a part of the series identity, even if a smaller one.

I think a counter-point to this is another Nintendo series that may have gotten too big for its boots. Mario Kart.

Koopa and Donkey Kong Jr. were removed in Mario Kart 64, and replaced by the much more popular Wario and Donkey Kong. Koopa later returned in Double Dash, but DK Jr. has only made an appearance in Mario Kart Tour, and not even in a modern form.

I imagine if any of the original 12 finally do get cut, the argument to keep them as a unit collapses. Smash Bros isn’t going to die instantly without Jigglypuff, Ness, or even Falcon.

Smash Bros is evolving, and we can’t always bring everything back. Pokémon dealt with this hurdle during Dexit. Mario Kart will deal with it. And so must Smash Bros.

 

[fogbadge]

I think a counter-point to this is another Nintendo series that may have gotten too big for its boots. Mario Kart.

Koopa and Donkey Kong Jr. were removed in Mario Kart 64, and replaced by the much more popular Wario and Donkey Kong. Koopa later returned in Double Dash, but DK Jr. has only made an appearance in Mario Kart Tour, and not even in a modern form.

I imagine if any of the original 12 finally do get cut, the argument to keep them as a unit collapses. Smash Bros isn’t going to die instantly without Jigglypuff, Ness, or even Falcon.

Smash Bros is evolving, and we can’t always bring everything back. Pokémon dealt with this hurdle during Dexit. Mario Kart will deal with it. And so must Smash Bros.

that reminds me, did paratroopa ever return?

 

[Perkilator]

that reminds me, did paratroopa ever return?

No, not even in Tour. I think that game would’ve been a good opportunity.

 

[Laniv]

that reminds me, did paratroopa ever return?

Sadly, no. It is the only character from Double Dash to never return. Not even in Tour

 

[Gengar84]

OK, here's a topic that doesn't involve cuts, since I'm sure we're all pretty tired of going back to that.

I may or may not have said this before, but I'm hoping the next Smash games delves deeper with alternate costumes, like...most fighting games.

Same here. Many characters have so much untapped potential with different outfits that it’s honestly a shame we’re still mostly limited to palate swaps with a few outliers. I’d love for the Zelda cast, Samus, Shulk, King K. Rool, Mario, and Peach at least to get a lot more actual oufits. I also feel the hard cap of 8 outfits per character is too limiting and I’d like to see that expanded.

 

[fogbadge]

No, not even in Tour. I think that game would’ve been a good opportunity.

Sadly, no. It is the only character from Double Dash to never return. Not even in Tour

shame

 

[osby]

Same here. Many characters have so much untapped potential with different outfits that it’s honestly a shame we’re still mostly limited to palate swaps with a few outliers. I’d love for the Zelda cast, Samus, Shulk, King K. Rool, Mario, and Peach at least to get a lot more actual oufits. I also feel the hard cap of 8 outfits per character is too limiting and I’d like to see that expanded.

I feel like giving everyone more than 8 costumes would be a hard task to undertake even for a Brawl-sized roster. That's literally adding hundreds of new costumes to the game.

 

[Perkilator]

I feel like giving everyone more than 8 costumes would be a hard task to undertake even for a Brawl-sized roster. That's literally adding hundreds of new costumes to the game.

I mean, even if you did it the Smash 4 Little Mac way, this wouldn't necessarily apply to every character. Only a select few.

 

[TheQuester]

I imagine if any of the original 12 finally do get cut, the argument to keep them as a unit collapses. Smash Bros isn’t going to die instantly without Jigglypuff, Ness, or even Falcon.

I didn't say Smash Bros is going to die for cutting Falcon, Ness, Jigglypuff, but for me (and others) it would rip a bit of the series soul, same way i felt with Ultimate removing Target Test and Trophies , it was a part of the series soul, even if it was small.
Same if you start cutting stuff like Master Hand, Crazy Hand or iconic items like Fire Flowers, Beam Swords, Laser Gun...if you remove all of those elements in a new game, it would still be Smash Bros. gameplay-wise, but it would lose it's "soul" to me.

Smash Bros is evolving, and we can’t always bring everything back. Pokémon dealt with this hurdle during Dexit. Mario Kart will deal with it. And so must Smash Bros.

I didn't say to bring everything back, just dont remove the orignal 12, most melee/brawl vets or the memorable modes, items and misc that helped shaping the series, to build a future you have to respect your past too, look at Final Fantasy, a lot of older fans don't like it because it doesn't keep the elements that make a Final Fantasy, a Final Fantasy game.
Also the Smash 4 and Ultimate stuff that they keep bringing back will eventually become mainstays and stuff, but unless they're characters like Inkling, Ridley or K. Rool, which are immune to cuts, i see Corrin as more expendable than the mainstay Ike, Piranha Plant more expendable than the mainstay Yoshi, Incineroar more expendable than the mainstay Lucario or Mewtwo, Min Min more expendable than the mainstay Ice Climbers.

Also, like i said newer additions can become mainstays, like look at Alisa from Tekken 8, she's now a mainstay of the series after aparearing in 3 games in a row or how Juri became a mainstay in SF after begin 3 times in a row, even through they're relatively newer characters compared to the characters that have been there since T1 and SF2.
But not every new character will become a mainstay like the old ones and that's fine, the old ones are part of the series identity, while the newer ones aren't, but they can become one with time, like was Ike a mainstay or one of the characters you think of when you say Smash Bros. when he was added in Brawl in 2008? No, not at all lol, most people didn't even know who he was, but after 3 games and 16 years of begin playable in Smash Bros, he is slowly becoming a mainstay, if he isn't already.
Older characters have simply more memories attached to them than newer ones, like i have more memories with Ice Climbers as a Smash Bros character than Hero, even through i'm a Dragon Quest fan and not a Ice Climbers game fan at all, it's simple, one has been around in the series for 23 years and the other for 5 years.

 

[CannonStreak]

A Nintendo Direct Partners Showcase and an Indie World are happening, guys!

x.com

twitter.com

 

[Swamp Sensei]

A Nintendo Direct Partners Showcase and an Indie World are happening, guys!

x.com

twitter.com

Well. I am slightly disappointed its not a normal direct, but hey, I didn't expect one until September so it all checks out.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think part of the issues with predicting veterans is that everyone has their own idea of who is absolutely necessary, and often it's too many characters to add them all and have a balanced roster, and a good amount of newcomers. Given that assumption, I kind of want to find which characters are well and truly synonymous with Super Smash Bros. The characters that, if they were cut, something would be very wrong. This doesn't necessarily include characters that should be in anyway (Yoshi for example), but some of them could fit that criteria.

The easiest answers for me are Fox and Marth. They were some of the most prolific characters in Super Smash Bros. Melee, and they are now considered the prime example of their respective archetypes. Just about every other platform fighter has a Fox and/or a Marth. They're that important.

Beyond that, my thoughts go to Mario, Donkey Kong, Link, Samus, and Kirby. Mario I think takes that spot because he's Mario, but the others' movesets are probably some of the most memorable amongst the casual players, at least, from what I've seen. Donkey Kong in particular still seems to be seen as the series' prime example of a grappler. Captain Falcon and Ganondorf also stick out to me in this regard, with the former being one of the Melee goats, and having a charisma that casuals love, and the latter being one of the most satisfying casual movesets in the series.

I think Peach has also reached this status in large part to who she is. She's the series' primary girl character (Samus is also a girl, but she's fully armored, so it's not quite the same), and Peach Bomber spam seems to be a core memory for players that are just starting out. She also draws players in by being the typical damsel in distress now in a position of power. Zelda is right there with her, though substitute Peach Bomber with Din's Fire and Nayru's Love.

That makes 11 characters so far, which feels like a reasonable number to lock in. I do have some characters that I think could be on this list, but I hesitate to include them for whatever reason:

• Meta Knight: He became the most infamous character on the roster in one game, but we've kind of ignored him since then. I dunno if this is because the appeal he's had in Brawl has been butchered ever since or what, but it's difficult to say that he made a permanant mark on the level of everyone previously mentioned due to that.
• Wario: He's Wario, and his odd implimentation made him stand out quite a bit, but is he more on the Ice Climber/Mr. Game & Watch level of iconic or is he something more?
• Diddy Kong: His Banana Peel mechanics make him stand out, but in terms of influence I'm not sure if I'm just being biased toward the competitive community.
• Sonic: All I can really say is just vibes, and I kinda want something more concrete than that.
• King Dedede: He seems innocuous to me, but he does have that charisma that fans love.
• Mii Fighters: They seem to be cementing themselves as Super Smash Bros.'s create a character, but I can't help but feel their time on the roster is limited. And yeah, they're being treated as a money machine with all the DLC costumes they get, but you know who else could get DLC costumes? The entire rest of the roster. I need to know that Miis as a concept aren't going away before I'm comfortable saying that the fighters have to stay.

I'm also going to go ahead and disqualify Mewtwo, Roy, the Ice Climbers, and everyone else that has been cut since well, they've been cut, and everything was fine. We know by definition that they aren't entirely inseparable with the Super Smash Bros. series, even if they're really important/nice to have.

 

[CannonStreak]

Well. I am slightly disappointed its not a normal direct, but hey, I didn't expect one until September so it all checks out.

Maybe the Nintendo Direct is actually going to be a showcase for the new Nintendo console they are working on and not an actual Direct.

Just a guess.

 

[Will]

I feel like giving everyone more than 8 costumes would be a hard task to undertake even for a Brawl-sized roster. That's literally adding hundreds of new costumes to the game.

I wouldn’t ask for more if they weren’t removing good alts off the legacy characters.

I love Builder/Wedding Mario but I don’t think we had to sacrifice the Fire Mario and Jumpman alts, cmoooooon. i know they removed jump man in ssb4 shut up

 

[Gengar84]

I feel like giving everyone more than 8 costumes would be a hard task to undertake even for a Brawl-sized roster. That's literally adding hundreds of new costumes to the game.

I don’t think every single character needs more than 8 costumes, just the ones that actually have existing costume material they can work with.

 

[fogbadge]

A Nintendo Direct Partners Showcase and an Indie World are happening, guys!

x.com

twitter.com

should be interesting

 

[AreJay25]

Combining an Indie Direct with a Partner Showcase at this time of the year is certainly an interesting decision. Almost feels like they're clearing out the rest of their queue to prepare for something a bit bigger....

Well, in any event, I hope we get a release date for the MvC collection. 'Cause I really don't know what else to expect from this lmao.

except pain and agony from fans of a certain metroidvania game revolving around bugs

 

[Lionfranky]

As far as microsoft having better candidates, like Master Chief and Doom Slayer, i am still one of those guys who thinks the ESRB is going to disincentivize sakurai from adding M rated characters. Besides that, are master chief or doom slayer even more popular than crash? I had assumed Halo didn't have much international appeal due to the XBox not selling well in japan, but that may have changed in recent years. Doom I'm 50/50 on, it's a classic series and historically important. I do think Doom is more likely to get representation than Halo, though.

If we go by rating, Halo has advantage over Doom because recent Halo games got tamer rating. Halo is not hard M rating. If we go by Japanese rating, Halo games got tamer rating there as well. During 360 era, Halo did well in Japan for all things considered. And, it's on PC. From what I've observed, Halo had more recognition than Doom in Japan.

 

[Perkilator]

For what it's worth, Crash has at least had a much bigger presence in Japan compared to other Microsoft reps, considering the Crash Dance originated there.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Dixie Kong is now the number one character.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Dixie Kong is now the number one character.

Text

 

[Shinuto]

New Nintendo direct partner showcase and indie world back to back together for total 40 minutes never had both together.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Honestly, no other character is close to Dixie Kong or Bandana Waddle Dee.

To go with the Elite Four thing, maybe instead it should be one as the champion and one as the rival.

 

[Sucumbio]

I'm glad for both and agree both lineups feel like they're missing them. Maybe not as much as I personally feel the hole left by no Toad...

 

[Laniv]

Dixie Kong is now the number one character.

Incredible. You love to see it.

But is Funky Kong still holding on to the bronze?

 

[Louie G.]

It’s gonna be a bit strange for me not to regard Waluigi as the “champion”, I think in my own mind I’ll still see it that way. Mostly because he’s the one character who feels like he transcends insular community support outwardly toward the casual demographic who wouldn’t be voting on or being exposed to a poll like this.

I do kind of wonder the validity of the “Elite Four” gauged from this kind of poll, mostly because it does focus more on that level of casual “oh thats neat” support and not exactly who has the most momentum and excitement. The real answer for the community frontrunner probably balances out both of these factors. I have to imagine BWD and Dixie Kong do well even in a more exclusive poll like that, though.

Like, as cool as it is to see, and I’m certainly not complaining, but there’s no way Funky Kong is occupying an “Elite Four” character hype slot, like longtsanding and passionate community support, and not like… Isaac. To me at least, just based on how this was occupied in the past (K. Rool, Ridley, Little Mac, Palutena).

 

[AreJay25]

Man it's gonna be real freakin' weird if Bandana Dee and Dixie Kong somehow miss yet another game.

 

[BuckleyTim]

i just don't know how much stock I can put in a DK-led "Elite Four" poll when it's already been mentioned that the dk subreddit hosted a link to it and not other big subs like the zelda one. Feels like the same kinda unintentional lopsidedness that happens to any poll where Team Fortress 2 Heavy makes an appearance.

Granted, I'm raising alarms over Dixie Kong for no reason, lol. I'm sure hindsight will show a lot of love given to characters even in the top 40 or beyond in this.

 

[Shinuto]

i just don't know how much stock I can put in a DK-led "Elite Four" poll when it's already been mentioned that the dk subreddit hosted a link to it and not other big subs like the zelda one. Feels like the same kinda unintentional lopsidedness that happens to any poll where Team Fortress 2 Heavy makes an appearance.

Granted, I'm raising alarms over Dixie Kong for no reason, lol. I'm sure hindsight will show a lot of love given to characters even in the top 40 or beyond in this.

Where are these results?

 

[cashregister9]

This is entirely semantics and based on very specific things that may not even apply.

I don't think it will be an indie world because Indie Worlds aren't considered Nintendo Directs by Nintendo

Nintendo Direct - Archive - Nintendo Official Site

The online home for exclusive Nintendo news — broadcast directly to you, the player.

www.nintendo.com

Now again this is a semantics thing and the leakers could just be hearing "Nintendo Presentation" and assume a direct.

Could very well be a mini or partner showcase though.

Okay I was dead wrong but not in the way I expected.

 

[Noipoi]

I think this poll is less about determining who the new “elite four” is and more about general consensus among the fandom.

If you were only allowed to pick one character out of a selection the results might look different. But you can choose as many characters as you want. This doesn’t necessarily mean that Dixie or BWD are definitively the most requested characters among the fanbase, but that most people are cool with them and would like to see them in Smash.

Am I making sense? That’s just my interpretation at least.

 

[Louie G.]

Granted, I'm raising alarms over Dixie Kong for no reason, lol. I'm sure hindsight will show a lot of love given to characters even in the top 40 or beyond in this.

Dixie was already second place before being shared to the DK subreddit, and even Funky Kong was placing within Top 5. I don’t doubt Dixie’s capacity to be at least somewhere in that pool even without the DK bump. Not sure if she would be #1 full stop, but definitely still sitting high.

Did we get the r/Kirby plug yet?

 

[BritishGuy54]

Man it's gonna be real freakin' weird if Bandana Dee and Dixie Kong somehow miss yet another game.

I can see Bandana Dee getting in for sure. But my gut says Dixie Kong will miss the boat once more.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Honestly, no other character is close to Dixie Kong or Bandana Waddle Dee.

To go with the Elite Four thing, maybe instead it should be one as the champion and one as the rival.

And here there where doubters saying they never are requested much, and missed the boat earlier so never will make it.

Ironic cause all past DKC newcomers where considered very late additions. Diddy probably should've made it in Melee, but time constraints and the Rare buyout probably got in the way (this is a huge conspiracy I believe till this day, Diddy has no Melee trophy while Dixie and K.Rool do, and Event Match 2 is highly suspicious with a big regular color DK and a small red color DK as opponents). And K.Rool was highly requested for Smash 4 but got in a game later.

 

[Opossum]

Dixie was already second place before being shared to the DK subreddit, and even Funky Kong was placing within Top 5. I don’t doubt Dixie’s capacity to be at least somewhere in that pool even without the DK bump. Not sure if she would be #1 full stop, but definitely still sitting high.

Did we get the r/Kirby plug yet?

It did hit r/kirby iirc.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

It’s gonna be a bit strange for me not to regard Waluigi as the “champion”, I think in my own mind I’ll still see it that way. Mostly because he’s the one character who feels like he transcends insular community support outwardly toward the casual demographic who wouldn’t be voting on or being exposed to a poll like this.

Going to be completely honest about this.
He never WAS some sort of "champion" among speculation.

He wasn't even taken seriously until he got a memetic outcry over being an Assist in Ultimate of varying degrees of legitimacy, which people somehow took to mean he was this super-wanted character by everyone and how he's totally going to be on the radar to include next time.

And that's what bothers me the most.
He's pretty much ignored until people made asses out of themselves and essentially give the entire fanbase a bad name to where someone like me has to walk on eggshells when saying Waluigi is my most wanted, but now that somehow gets flipped a full 180 to be a GOOD thing for him?

Because being loud and obnoxious means everything, right?

 

[Opossum]

Going to be completely honest about this.
He never WAS some sort of "champion" among speculation.

He wasn't even taken seriously until he got a memetic outcry over being an Assist in Ultimate of varying degrees of legitimacy, which people somehow took to mean he was this super-wanted character by everyone and how he's totally going to be on the radar to include next time.

And that's what bothers me the most.
He's pretty much ignored until people made asses out of themselves and essentially give the entire fanbase a bad name to where someone like me has to walk on eggshells when saying Waluigi is my most wanted, but now that somehow gets flipped a full 180 to be a GOOD thing for him?

Because being loud and obnoxious means everything, right?

That's just going too far in the complete opposite direction.

 

[Louie G.]

Because being loud and obnoxious means everything, right?

For better or worse, when judging this kind of thing, it often does lol. We’re talking about omnipresence within the conversation for next game. It’s impossible to say Waluigi isn’t a large part of that, even if you think a lot of it is insincere.

But I mean, I’ve spoken on this before. I think you’re too down on it but I understand your pessimism. The fact of the matter is if people didn’t genuinely want Waluigi he wouldn’t be Top 3 in this poll in the first place. He wouldn’t be the top ranking Mario character. If you want to believe this current movement started as a meme sure, but once it lasts this long it’s hard to convince me that it still is.

Besides, as I’ve said in the past I feel like Ultimate was the first time many people believed Waluigi held a serious chance. It feels natural that the community loosens up on characters the more essential choices are added already.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

That's just going too far in the complete opposite direction.

It's the just right amount that didn't let me get swept up in the blind optimism going into Ultimate and the bull**** conspiracy theories that happened after.