Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Pupp135]

Re: Square Enix

I’m not sure how they’ll approach Square fighters next game, but my most wanted newcomer from Square is Tidus from FFX.

If we get a Square newcomer, there are multiple choices to choose from outside of the franchises currently represented. Geno and 2B seem like the frontrunners, but characters from games/franchises like Chrono, Star Ocean, Bravely Default, Octopath Traveler, The World Ends with You, or Triangle Strategy (still need to beat that game) could be interesting to see.

New roster ideas here. Making Lucas and Falco full echoes / clones now, fusing the movesets of Fox and Falco but keeping Falco as his Melee self more or less (most popular version anyway), Ness and Lucas, Lucina and Chrom and revamp ideas for the FE cast and all that.

This prevents Lucas to be cut. Gives Lucina and Chrom a better reason to stay around and equally separates the weapon triangle of FE amongst the cast instead of dumping it on Byleth. And makes Falco less unique but allows him to be cheated in by requiring less work.

Thoughts?

I like the roster overall, and I’ll divide this into what I like, and what I would’ve done differently.
What I like
Most of the major players are here, and you also tagged along a few overlooked picks like Palutena, Zero Suit Samus, Incinoroar, and R.O.B.
The newcomer lineup is strong overall. It has a combination of commonly requested/speculated fighters like Bandana Waddle Dee and Chun-Li in addition to some overlooked ones like Funky Kong and Garchomp.
I like that you preserved echoes.

What I would change
Mii Fighters, Sora, and Steve feel like glaring omissions here, especially with DLC being accounted for here.
I would’ve kept Ice Climbers and Pokemon Trainer, but that’s just me being picky.
From newcomers, the only thing that feels missing to me is something from Animal Crossing.
While you preserved echoes, I find it hard to imagine that a fighter would demote into an echo.

 

[Sucumbio]

Personally i think Final Fantasy is the least likely of the three Square series to come back.

Kingdom hearts probably gets priority due to the huge demand it had and Dragon Quest just seems easier to get than either of them.

While it's true KH was top of the ballot I don't think Cloud being in 2 games in a row can be so easily pushed aside. Also Disney is involved whereas Cloud only has SE to make decisions so honestly I think the most likely SE Character to come back is Cloud and he'll probably be base again to anchor the SE reps who follow in DLC.

Sephiroth is a one off I think, unpopular as an opinion that may be. Which leaves Hero and I still have a question mark but it's about 75/25 he returns and 50/50 it's as DLC.

 

[fogbadge]

While it's true KH was top of the ballot I don't think Cloud being in 2 games in a row can be so easily pushed aside. Also Disney is involved whereas Cloud only has SE to make decisions so honestly I think the most likely SE Character to come back is Cloud and he'll probably be base again to anchor the SE reps who follow in DLC.

Sephiroth is a one off I think, unpopular as an opinion that may be. Which leaves Hero and I still have a question mark but it's about 75/25 he returns and 50/50 it's as DLC.

You say that as if SE has any say on sora’s return

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

While anything in the neighborhood of merch like Amiibo is going to have their strong supervision, I suspect with the game proper Disney's not going to have that much objection to Sora coming back. Having one of their characters in a highly successful, polished, and well-respected series (with the last installment being the best-selling fighting game of all time) is a no brainer and outside maybe an increase in licensing costs, I doubt the process would be that much different.

 

[ninjahmos]

2 Final Fantasy
1 Dragon Quest
1 Kingdom Hearts

Which SE series is next of any? Or we just need to conserve what we have and hope they all make it? Are these options mutually exclusive?

Well, people already mentioned Chrono and Nier, so…

Star Ocean
Mana
Space Invaders
Bubble Bobble

As long as we get...The Song.

Bubble Bobble is in the same boat as Double Dragon. Where...The Song...is the most iconic part of the franchise.

DADDY MULK!

OK, but what about the Puzzle Bobble/Bust-A-Move Theme?

 

[Sucumbio]

You say that as if SE has any say on sora’s return

It was more just me replying to his post. If he's considering Sora as a SE rep then for the sake of argument I think Cloud is more important to SE than Sora. But it is true that KH is owned by Disney and licensed to Square Enix. So in a strange world where Disney wants Sora in Smash but Square Enix doesn't... Yeah that'd be a moment lol

 

[Swamp Sensei]

The poll has reached 511 votes.

Y'all can expect a write up and some results within the next couple of days.

We did it.

 

[HyperSomari64]

If we get another batch of spirit events for Ultimate's 6th Anniversary, there should be two additional ones for 2025

Spoiler: The Two Lists

1) Nintendo

1. Efilin (Kirby and the Forgotten Land)
2. Alear (Male and Female) (Fire Emblem Engage)
3. Sportsmates (Nintendo Switch Sports)
4. MC Horace (Everybody 1-2-Switch!)

2) Sonic + Bayonetta (The latter being seriesless)

1. Sage (Sonic Frontiers)
2. Trip (Sonic Superstars)
3. Viola (Bayonetta 3)
4. Cereza and Chesire (Bayonetta Origins: Cereza and the Lost Demons)

 

[Speed Weed]

As long as we get...The Song.

Bubble Bobble is in the same boat as Double Dragon. Where...The Song...is the most iconic part of the franchise.

DADDY MULK!

Me and the homies popping off when they add an 11-minute song from RayCrisis

 

[chocolatejr9]

The poll has reached 511 votes.

Y'all can expect a write up and some results within the next couple of days.

We did it.

Heck yeah, can't wait! I'm genuinely curious about the results.

 

[Kirbeh]

2 Final Fantasy
1 Dragon Quest
1 Kingdom Hearts

Which SE series is next of any? Or we just need to conserve what we have and hope they all make it? Are these options mutually exclusive?

The Bouncer

 

[Noipoi]

The poll has reached 511 votes.

Y'all can expect a write up and some results within the next couple of days.

We did it.

Gex sweep

 

[Kirbeh]

Gex sweep

He may not have been on the poll, but he'll still win. That's just how much the people want Gex.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

He may not have been on the poll, but he'll still win. That's just how much the people want Gex.

Honestly, even though I was very clear that the poll was for Nintendo owned franchises...

I still got suggestions for Sonic characters, Crash and Master Chief (and Markiplier).

 

[HyperSomari64]

Honestly, even though I was very clear that the poll was for Nintendo owned franchises...

I still got suggestions for Sonic characters, Crash and Master Chief (and Markiplier).

That's because I wrote nothing in that section, just because it felt full for me.
(I wanted to put the Zelda CD-i characters but I rethink before writing something)

Also,
Nintendo Direct happening!!!!!!!!!

Buuuuuut......
is about Nintendo Museum

 

[Gorgonzales]

Honestly, even though I was very clear that the poll was for Nintendo owned franchises...

I still got suggestions for Sonic characters, Crash and Master Chief (and Markiplier).

markiplier dash attack

 

[Swamp Sensei]

markiplier dash attack

B to Blow is the easiest neutral special I've ever thought of.

 

[Wonder Smash]

That's because I wrote nothing in that section, just because it felt full for me.
(I wanted to put the Zelda CD-i characters but I rethink before writing something)

Also,
Nintendo Direct happening!!!!!!!!!

Buuuuuut......
is about Nintendo Museum

Nintendo Museum? Now that actually sounds interesting! It's always fun to explore the history of Nintendo in some way.

 

[fogbadge]

Seeing as there’s a bit of a lull in the conversation I’d like to bring up a a character concept if I may. For a while now of a fighter who can switch between a slower more defensive form and a faster less defensive form. I wondered if it was a practical idea for smash or if any other fighting games had done it. What do you all think?

I came up with the concept while picturing how the Pokémon Eiscue. But occurred to me there are other characters it could work for like zelda’s Darknuts (and iron knuckles) and Kril from another crab’s treasure

 

[Gengar84]

Seeing as there’s a bit of a lull in the conversation I’d like to bring up a a character concept if I may. For a while now of a fighter who can switch between a slower more defensive form and a faster less defensive form. I wondered if it was a practical idea for smash or if any other fighting games had done it. What do you all think?

I came up with the concept while picturing how the Pokémon Eiscue. But occurred to me there are other characters it could work for like zelda’s Darknuts (and iron knuckles) and Kril from another crab’s treasure

That sounds a bit like how Pyra and Mythra work now and how Zelda and Sheik used to work. There’s two ideas for this type of concept that I like a lot. The first is Deoxys which could transform between its attack and defense forms.

The second is a duo transform team of Alphen and Shionne from Tales of Arise. Alphen is a slower powerhouse swordsman who can sacrifice his own health for increased damage with his flame sword attack. Shionne is a faster ranged character who is a combination of a gunner and a healer. I think their playstyles play really well off each other and they can cover for each other’s weaknesses.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Seeing as there’s a bit of a lull in the conversation I’d like to bring up a a character concept if I may. For a while now of a fighter who can switch between a slower more defensive form and a faster less defensive form. I wondered if it was a practical idea for smash or if any other fighting games had done it. What do you all think?

I came up with the concept while picturing how the Pokémon Eiscue. But occurred to me there are other characters it could work for like zelda’s Darknuts (and iron knuckles) and Kril from another crab’s treasure

I feel like this is what Zelda/Sheik was supposed to be. It just didn't work because...well Zelda just isn't a functional character. Pyra/Mythra are also probably somewhat like this, though from what I've heard Mythra's more of a whiff punish character, which makes Pyra the more aggressive one since she can threaten with beeg normals.

As far as implimenting that with Eiscue and Darknuts, I think the problem there is that Ice Face and Darknut armor are tied to HP, making them more of defeatist mechanics. I suppose Eiscue can change back to Ice Face using Hail, but I also think that with Smash's logic, the mechanic would make more sense acting like Bowser Jr.'s armor mechanics, which isn't quite what you're looking for.

My immediate thought goes to Deoxys, but I have no idea what the other two forms would do, and it'd probably end up being more like Shulk. Morpeko could work like that with its Hunger Switch ability (if we take creative liberties since Hunger Switch barely does anything in the source material). Urshifu could work too if you could figure out how to use both forms in tandem. Zacian and Zamazenta could do so as well.

I think that's all I got.

 

[fogbadge]

I feel like this is what Zelda/Sheik was supposed to be. It just didn't work because...well Zelda just isn't a functional character. Pyra/Mythra are also probably somewhat like this, though from what I've heard Mythra's more of a whiff punish character, which makes Pyra the more aggressive one since she can threaten with beeg normals.

As far as implimenting that with Eiscue and Darknuts, I think the problem there is that Ice Face and Darknut armor are tied to HP, making them more of defeatist mechanics. I suppose Eiscue can change back to Ice Face using Hail, but I also think that with Smash's logic, the mechanic would make more sense acting like Bowser Jr.'s armor mechanics, which isn't quite what you're looking for.

My immediate thought goes to Deoxys, but I have no idea what the other two forms would do, and it'd probably end up being more like Shulk. Morpeko could work like that with its Hunger Switch ability (if we take creative liberties since Hunger Switch barely does anything in the source material). Urshifu could work too if you could figure out how to use both forms in tandem. Zacian and Zamazenta could do so as well.

I think that's all I got.

ice face isn’t connected to HP it blocks physical attacks. Besides you’re falling into the trap of thinking that things have to function in smash the way they do in their base games

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

ice face isn’t connected to HP it blocks physical attacks. Besides you’re falling into the trap of thinking that things have to function in smash the way they do in their base games

Oh yeah it's like Disguise right? Anyway, I do get that creative liberties and loose inspirations can and should happen, but you do have to consider what the original purpose of the element was. IIRC Ice Face is an adaptation from Eiscue to adjust to the warmer climate due to climate change, and with that in mind, I don't think a stance mechanic really makes sense with the idea since Eiscue doesn't really ever want to be in its Noice Face form for temperature regulation reasons.

If you wanted to play around with it though, you could do something like having Ice Face give Eiscue passive super armor and damage reduction on his head hitbox up to however much HP it has. Once it breaks, your Noice Face is revealed, and while your head hitbox is now smaller, it does take more damage when struck. Down Special could then be a move that just gives you Ice Face back. You could even introduce high risk/high reward moves that are quite poweful, but consume Ice Face, making you extremely vulnerable if you miss. You could do something similar to moves that give you Ice Face as well, making the buff riskier both to obtain and to gamble with loseing, or just giving extra options against characters that are difficult to distance yourself from (or in free for alls where hitboxes are everywhere).

I don't think it's quite the stance idea/archetype that you were thinking of, but it is an interesting idea on paper. Kind of reminds me of Etalus. As much as I dislike Eiscue, I probably wouldn't mind its inclusion if it had a similarly interesting idea with the Ice Face concept. It also just goes to show just how interesting Pokémon fighters can be if they weren't cowards and picked something random. lol

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Seeing as there’s a bit of a lull in the conversation I’d like to bring up a a character concept if I may. For a while now of a fighter who can switch between a slower more defensive form and a faster less defensive form. I wondered if it was a practical idea for smash or if any other fighting games had done it. What do you all think?

I came up with the concept while picturing how the Pokémon Eiscue. But occurred to me there are other characters it could work for like zelda’s Darknuts (and iron knuckles) and Kril from another crab’s treasure

I'd like them to explore this concept with the Chosen Undead (or any other Dark Souls/Elden Ring main character).
Make him swap armor/weapon, changing his stats and combo routes. Customization is such a huge part of those games and they have tons of weapons and spells to pull from, it would fit.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'd like them to explore this concept with the Chosen Undead (or any other Dark Souls/Elden Ring main character).
Make him swap armor/weapon, changing his stats and combo routes. Customization is such a huge part of those games and they have tons of weapons and spells to pull from, it would fit.

I feel like the inventory shuffle is one of those mechanics that any RPG character can do, but none of them are based off of it, so they don't. Kind of like how Hero's the only one with MP. I can't say whether or not it's the correct direction for a SoulsBorneRing character (though apparently all Bloodborne weapons have two forms so maybe it'd be extremely natural for that one?).

I think what I'd expect it on the most is the Dragonborn, as that game is also centered around building your character however you wish, though maybe that would manifest more as an exploration of skill trees...

 

[fogbadge]

Oh yeah it's like Disguise right? Anyway, I do get that creative liberties and loose inspirations can and should happen, but you do have to consider what the original purpose of the element was. IIRC Ice Face is an adaptation from Eiscue to adjust to the warmer climate due to climate change, and with that in mind, I don't think a stance mechanic really makes sense with the idea since Eiscue doesn't really ever want to be in its Noice Face form for temperature regulation reasons.

If you wanted to play around with it though, you could do something like having Ice Face give Eiscue passive super armor and damage reduction on his head hitbox up to however much HP it has. Once it breaks, your Noice Face is revealed, and while your head hitbox is now smaller, it does take more damage when struck. Down Special could then be a move that just gives you Ice Face back. You could even introduce high risk/high reward moves that are quite poweful, but consume Ice Face, making you extremely vulnerable if you miss. You could do something similar to moves that give you Ice Face as well, making the buff riskier both to obtain and to gamble with loseing, or just giving extra options against characters that are difficult to distance yourself from (or in free for alls where hitboxes are everywhere).

I don't think it's quite the stance idea/archetype that you were thinking of, but it is an interesting idea on paper. Kind of reminds me of Etalus. As much as I dislike Eiscue, I probably wouldn't mind its inclusion if it had a similarly interesting idea with the Ice Face concept. It also just goes to show just how interesting Pokémon fighters can be if they weren't cowards and picked something random. lol

yeah Pokémon really does have some of the best potential for the series

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If we get an FPS character (or any character really) with a sniper rifle, do you think they'll include a headshot mechanic?

My initial thoughts were "no" due to Kirby only being a head, among other reasons, but apparently Marth and Lucina of all characters have this mechanic, so I guess?

 

[ScrubReborn]

but apparently Marth and Lucina of all characters have this mechanic, so I guess?

They do?

 

[Opossum]

They do?

Yeah. Shield Breaker has an additional damage multiplier if it lands a headshot.

 

[Dukefire]

Yeah. Shield Breaker has an additional damage multiplier if it lands a headshot.

Huh......didn't know that was possible. Sakurai always continue to surprise people.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Yeah. Shield Breaker has an additional damage multiplier if it lands a headshot.

Here I was thinking someone was mistaking tippers for headshots or something

 

[Gorgonzales]

If we get an FPS character (or any character really) with a sniper rifle, do you think they'll include a headshot mechanic?

My initial thoughts were "no" due to Kirby only being a head, among other reasons, but apparently Marth and Lucina of all characters have this mechanic, so I guess?

I think it would be cool, but it'd need to be balanced proportionally to how each character's head is sized

For characters that have tiny heads like Samus or Link, landing a headshot on them should yield the greatest multiplier, let's say x2.0 for the sake of example.

For characters with larger heads like Mario or Mega Man, you'd still get great damage but not as much as the previous characters, so a x1.7 multiplier.

For characters whose heads are almost half their body (Olimar, Toon Link) it'd be decreased to x1.5, and for characters that are basically all head like Kirby the multiplier would basically just be x1.1.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Seeing as there’s a bit of a lull in the conversation I’d like to bring up a a character concept if I may. For a while now of a fighter who can switch between a slower more defensive form and a faster less defensive form. I wondered if it was a practical idea for smash or if any other fighting games had done it. What do you all think?

I came up with the concept while picturing how the Pokémon Eiscue. But occurred to me there are other characters it could work for like zelda’s Darknuts (and iron knuckles) and Kril from another crab’s treasure

When i was trying to come up with a moveset idea for Kiryu i had the idea of putting this as a gimmick, since he does something like this in some of the Yakuza games, not all of them but in some of them he does have multiple fighting styles that he can swap between mid fight.

 

[Laniv]

yeah Pokémon really does have some of the best potential for the series

One thing I've noticed is that every time I think to myself, "Wouldn't it be fun if there was a fighter that did X?", there is usually a Pokémon that does do X

 

[HyperSomari64]

One thing I've noticed is that every time I think to myself, "Wouldn't it be fun if there was a fighter that did X?", there is usually a Pokémon that does do X

Charizard in Smash 4 had Mega Charizard X.

 

[fogbadge]

One thing I've noticed is that every time I think to myself, "Wouldn't it be fun if there was a fighter that did X?", there is usually a Pokémon that does do X

especially xerneas

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

I feel like the inventory shuffle is one of those mechanics that any RPG character can do, but none of them are based off of it, so they don't. Kind of like how Hero's the only one with MP. I can't say whether or not it's the correct direction for a SoulsBorneRing character (though apparently all Bloodborne weapons have two forms so maybe it'd be extremely natural for that one?).

I think what I'd expect it on the most is the Dragonborn, as that game is also centered around building your character however you wish, though maybe that would manifest more as an exploration of skill trees...

Right, Skyrim would also work for that kind of idea. Any one of those games where your character is fully customizable would lend itself well to something like that.
RPGs like Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest or Mother have well-defined protagonists (at least in terms of design and general skillset) so to me it makes sense that even in Smash they don't lean on the customization aspect all that much, or at all.

 

[Laniv]

Charizard in Smash 4 had Mega Charizard X.

especially xerneas

He's in.

 

[Shinuto]

Okay it's never gonna happen but let's say we got smash ultimate booster pass like Mario Kart 8 Deluxe got and it was six total fighter pass with six characters for a total of 36 new fighters, not including any echoes, what would your list look like? In no particular order...
1. Waluigi
2. Shantae
3. Dante
4. Professor Layton
5. Phoenix Wright
6. Dr. Eggman
7. Shadow
8. KOS-MOS
9. Ayumi Tachibana
10. Doom Slayer
11. Bandanna Waddle Dee
12. Marina Liteyears
13. Goemon
14. Conker
15. Takamaru
16. Nia
17. Mio
18. Geno
19. Shovel Knight
20. Sans
21. Travis Touchdown
22. Crash Bandicoot with Coco Echo
23. Rayman
24. Isaac
25. Chibi Robo
26. 2B with A2 echo if it'll work
27. Master Chief
28. Lloyd Irving
29. DJ Octavio
30. Ashley
31. Lip
32. Monika (DDLC)
33. Akira Howard
34. Tinkaton
35. Ring Fit Trainer
36. Bomberman

 

[DarthEnderX]

Okay it's never gonna happen but let's say we got smash ultimate booster pass like Mario Kart 8 Deluxe got and it was six total fighter pass with six characters for a total of 36 new fighters, not including any echoes, what would your list look like?

36?! Jesus...okay.

1. Ryu Hayabusa [Ninja Gaiden]
2. Bill Rizer/Lance Bean [Contra]
3. Arthur [Ghosts ‘n Goblins]
4. Kunio/Riki [River City]
5. SV-001 Metal Slug [Metal Slug]
6. Bub/Bob [Bubble Bobble]
7. Jill Valentine [Resident Evil]
8. Morrigan [Darkstalkers]
9. Nightmare [Soulcalibur]
10. Kazuma Kiryu [Like a Dragon]
11. Nakoruru [Samurai Shodown]
12. Dante [Devil May Cry]
13. Phoenix Wright [Ace Attorney]
14. Viewtiful Joe [Viewtiful Joe]
15. Amaterasu [Okami]
16. Mike Haggar [Final Fight]
17. Strider Hiryu [Strider]
18. Goemon/Ebisumaru [Legend of the Mystical Ninja]
19. Crono [Chrono Trigger]
20. Nathan Spencer [Bionic Commando]
21. Rash/Zitz [Battletoads]
22. Bomberman [Bomberman]
23. Estelle Bright [Legend of Heroes]
24. Shantae [Shantae]
25. Geno [Super Mario RPG]
26. Master Chief [Halo]
27. Doom Slayer [Doom]
28. Captain Toad/Toadette [Treasure Tracker]
29. King Hippo [Punch-Out]
30. Bandana Waddle Dee [Kirby]
31. Firebrand [Gargoyle’s Quest]
32. Zero [Mega Man X]
33. Alucard [Castlevania]
34. Raiden [Metal Gear]
35. Chun Li [Street Fighter]
36. Mii Mage