Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[RodNutTakin]

I think it will be Cloud and Hero in base, and Sephiroth dangled as tasty looking DLC per Square Enix's request.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

First, why does it matter if it's "not the 90s anymore"? No matter what decade it is, if there's a major time period during the series run, it's relevant to the series and character's iconic status and it's something worth looking into. Plus, with the series having three major hit games, thinking she's still something of the past is crazy. You might as well apply this to Crash too.

I think it's a "the series is still active, but it's a lot less ubiquitous" kind of deal, and that does matter, but in this context it's mainly insofar as it doesn't really make for a long discussion on its own, and speaking as if she was still at the height of her iconic status is a bit unhelpful, because she isn't. It's not denying that she was ever there or that the fact that she was there doesn't matter, it's just that she isn't there anymore, and that also matters.

It's kind of like how Star Fox was super revolutionary in its time, but now is most known for dying a very slow and painful death because it failed to capitalize on what makes it so great. When people discuss Fox's return as a veteran fighter, it's often on the basis of him being iconic to Super Smash Bros. specifically, rather than any enthusiasm for the series itself. If he were never added, he'd definitely have fans, but I'm not sure he'd be considered all that likely a pick, especially given the source material. Heh, it'd be kind of amusing looking at the alternate timeline where people are arguing against Fox because they'd rather have a character that "lends themself to Smash better". That was kind of a tangent there, and Lara clearly isn't in that dire a straight, but I do think it's a decent parallel. Admittedly, Samus might be a stronger one; A character once held in high esteem as one of the first major female characters in gaming, but is now just one character among many.

Second, this isn't feuding with Speed Weed. I really didn't want to talk to him anymore. I even left his Battle of AGES thread after following it for a while. And if anything, I'd rather you not make anymore excuses for him. I don't know why you keep doing that. Sure, misunderstandings happen a lot but people do admit to it in the same conversation. He still to this day never said that his outrageous accusation was a misunderstanding. Instead, he just keeps posting here like nothing happened and ignores it even whenever I bring it up. He clearly doesn't care.

(As a matter of fact, who does? I mean, nobody else called him out on it but they want to call out certain other people that I'm not going to name.)

Moving on would be better if he takes back what he said. Until then, I'm sticking to how I feel and how I handle it. To think that I'm the kind of person that would use somebody's death to push for a character inclusion? That is absolutely insane and I'm not going along with other people making excuses for him, unless he says these things himself. This goes for Verde too, by the way.

I'm not making excuses for anyone. It's just that for better or worse, I try to point out when people don't seem to be understanding each other, and when I don't have a horse in the race, my reading of these kinds of things are extremely neutral. I do have a feeling that I've overstepped this time, and this is quickly becoming off topic, so I'll try not to say too much more.

I also have a fairly aggressive tendency to rationalize things in order to shrug off things that otherwise annoy me, so I apologize if it felt like I was just trying to force my placid behavior onto you, and I double apologize if that's actually what happened, because that's very not OK.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I'm still of the opinion that Hero and Sora will be base game. I also still think Cloud and Sephiroth will be DLC as a little dual pack, partially for money, but I also can't deny it's really funny to imagine a pack where it's basically Cloud and his memory demon that won't leave him alone for an instant.

Like if we get one, we have to get the other now that we have both, so why not package them together as like an FF7 pack so you can't just have one or the other? lol

 

[Wonder Smash]

I think it's a "the series is still active, but it's a lot less ubiquitous" kind of deal, and that does matter, but in this context it's mainly insofar as it doesn't really make for a long discussion on its own, and speaking as if she was still at the height of her iconic status is a bit unhelpful, because she isn't. It's not denying that she was ever there or that the fact that she was there doesn't matter, it's just that she isn't there anymore, and that also matters.

It's kind of like how Star Fox was super revolutionary in its time, but now is most known for dying a very slow and painful death because it failed to capitalize on what makes it so great. When people discuss Fox's return as a veteran fighter, it's often on the basis of him being iconic to Super Smash Bros. specifically, rather than any enthusiasm for the series itself. If he were never added, he'd definitely have fans, but I'm not sure he'd be considered all that likely a pick, especially given the source material. Heh, it'd be kind of amusing looking at the alternate timeline where people are arguing against Fox because they'd rather have a character that "lends themself to Smash better". That was kind of a tangent there, and Lara clearly isn't in that dire a straight, but I do think it's a decent parallel. Admittedly, Samus might be a stronger one; A character once held in high esteem as one of the first major female characters in gaming, but is now just one character among many.

A series is not going to always be as big as it was before. Double Dragon, one of my favorite series, is one example of that. But if a series is so big that it still gets brought up and it's still active with some solid games, it really shouldn't matter. It makes no sense to only go by the status of the character or their series now. Everything important about the character, including back decades before, counts,

I'm not making excuses for anyone. It's just that for better or worse, I try to point out when people don't seem to be understanding each other, and when I don't have a horse in the race, my reading of these kinds of things are extremely neutral. I do have a feeling that I've overstepped this time, and this is quickly becoming off topic, so I'll try not to say too much more.

I also have a fairly aggressive tendency to rationalize things in order to shrug off things that otherwise annoy me, so I apologize if it felt like I was just trying to force my placid behavior onto you, and I double apologize if that's actually what happened, because that's very not OK.

It's all cool. I got no beef with you. It's just that if he really didn't mean any harm and it was all a misunderstanding (and a very strange one at that), he would have already cleared this up himself. For him to not do that or even say anything at all, it shows a different side to his character and it's just frustrating when people try speak for him, turn a blind eye, or tell me to move on, as that's basically giving him a pass for his bad behavior that he'll eventually keep showing again.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'm still of the opinion that Hero and Sora will be base game. I also still think Cloud and Sephiroth will be DLC as a little dual pack, partially for money, but I also can't deny it's really funny to imagine a pack where it's basically Cloud and his memory demon that won't leave him alone for an instant.

Like if we get one, we have to get the other now that we have both, so why not package them together as like an FF7 pack so you can't just have one or the other? lol

Don't really think so. Considering the FF content in Smash 4 and Ultimate prior to Sephiroth making it in was weirdly low, I think Cloud and Sephiroth are prime DLC candidates. And they will be cause their removal will make their support all the more loud. I also remember Everyone Is Here almost didn't happen, but Sakurai never specified which company was the obstacle. It probably was Square.

But I do think Hero will be there. Possibly with a second Dragon Quest character. Am thinking either Slime or even Erik.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Don't really think so. Considering the FF content in Smash 4 and Ultimate prior to Sephiroth making it in was weirdly low, I think Cloud and Sephiroth are prime DLC candidates. And they will be cause their removal will make their support all the more loud. I also remember Everyone Is Here almost didn't happen, but Sakurai never specified which company was the obstacle. It probably was Square.

But I do think Hero will be there. Possibly with a second Dragon Quest character. Am thinking either Slime or even Erik.

I mean we're on the same page there, Hero base game, Cloud/Seph as DLC, so the "Don't really think so" is confusing me a little, but yeah I agree lol

Not so sure on a second Dragon Quest character, but it's definitely possible since it's such a household name in Japan. I feel like Square will just throw another franchise in with the DLC, whether that's something more classic like Chrono Trigger or something like 2B for Nier (cuz I mean if she can be in Granblue Fantasy Versus Rising and Soul Calibur 6, she could definitely end up here lol).

I'm kinda partially hoping Hero is base game just so he can pull a Mega Man/Castlevania and get a **** ton of remixes since the old composer is dead and his replacement understands that "hey maybe the video game music shouldn't be made into bad midis on purpose to sell the real version as a concert album and the real version should just be in the video game to begin with".

 

[Diddy Kong]

I mean we're on the same page there, Hero base game, Cloud/Seph as DLC, so the "Don't really think so" is confusing me a little, but yeah I agree lol

Not so sure on a second Dragon Quest character, but it's definitely possible since it's such a household name in Japan. I feel like Square will just throw another franchise in with the DLC, whether that's something more classic like Chrono Trigger or something like 2B for Nier (cuz I mean if she can be in Granblue Fantasy Versus Rising and Soul Calibur 6, she could definitely end up here lol).

I'm kinda partially hoping Hero is base game just so he can pull a Mega Man/Castlevania and get a **** ton of remixes since the old composer is dead and his replacement understands that "hey maybe the video game music shouldn't be made into bad midis on purpose to sell the real version as a concert album and the real version should just be in the video game to begin with".

Oh I read you thought of Cloud as base game contender too. In which I'm a little unsure tbh. I could see either happen.

But Hero am 100% confident in. For the most part.

 

[DarthEnderX]

None of the SE characters will be base game!

Instead, they're gonna sell you the "Square Enix Fighters Pass":

Cloud
Sephiroth
Hero
Sora
Geno
Crono

 

[Perkilator]

I still feel like at least Banjo and Sora will be in the base game purely because of how requested they were.

 

[Gengar84]

Okay, I guess I’m in the minority with this take as well. I don’t think a franchise has to be currently relevant to be deserving of a character in Smash. I think Smash is best as a celebration of the history of gaming. If a game or series was huge during the 80’s, 90’s, or any other era but has fallen off since, it should still be in the discussion for a Smash inclusion due to its historical significance. If we’re lucky, Smash could even serve as a launching point for a new game in an otherwise dormant series kind of like what it did for Kid Icarus.

I just feel like always defaulting to what’s currently relevant causes Smash to feel less like a celebration and more like an advertisement. That said, newer games are important too but I don’t think they should be a guarantee at the exclusion of everything else. I believe people focus a bit too much on the advertisement side of Smash and often dismiss older characters for that reason. Another downside of always going with what’s big right now is it could cause those characters to feel more dated in later entries. If I were making the game, I’d try to put an equal focus on representing characters from every console generation.

 

[Will]

On one hand, Nintendo willingly paid for the rights to Sephiroth, and it’s probably in their best interests to get him and his twink friend back in the game.

On the other hand, I can’t really argue against corporate greed and letting FF7 print DLC money. Sounds like something Nintendo would do.

 

[fogbadge]

On one hand, Nintendo willingly paid for the rights to Sephiroth, and it’s probably in their best interests to get him and his twink friend back in the game.

On the other hand, I can’t really argue against corporate greed and letting FF7 print DLC money. Sounds like something Nintendo would do.

I don’t think cloud counts as a twink

 

[ScrubReborn]

I don't think Sora's more likely to be base than Cloud lol. Or likely to be base at all. I don't trust Disney not to bleed Nintendo's pockets dry for that. I imagine Sora more as permanent DLC bait tho lol, Nintendo ain't finna want him to go forever.

If only one Squeenix character is base, I'm sure it'll be Cloud. Sure ppl say he was hard to get for Ultimate... but they still got him lol. And I'm sure that DLC fed Square's pockets like a turkey dinner so I can't see them suddenly going more hardball. Especially if Nintendo promises more DLC from them in return. Fully ready for this to blow in my face but I think Cloud has a good future ahead of him.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It makes no sense to only go by the status of the character or their series now.

That right there was the point. You can't just go by how popular Tomb Raider was a long time ago, but during SSBU's DLC, it was all that was being brought up. And so, discussion of her died just as quickly as it was brought up; nobody had anything else to say about her, so there really wasn't anything else to discuss.

Okay, I guess I’m in the minority with this take as well. I don’t think a franchise has to be currently relevant to be deserving of a character in Smash. I think Smash is best as a celebration of the history of gaming. If a game or series was huge during the 80’s, 90’s, or any other era but has fallen off since, it should still be in the discussion for a Smash inclusion due to its historical significance. If we’re lucky, Smash could even serve as a launching point for a new game in an otherwise dormant series kind of like what it did for Kid Icarus.

I just feel like always defaulting to what’s currently relevant causes Smash to feel less like a celebration and more like an advertisement. That said, newer games are important too but I don’t think they should be a guarantee at the exclusion of everything else. I believe people focus a bit too much on the advertisement side of Smash and often dismiss older characters for that reason. Another downside of always going with what’s big right now is it could cause those characters to feel more dated in later entries. If I were making the game, I’d try to put an equal focus on representing characters from every console generation.

I agree, though I think just due to how things work, older characters are more of base game fare, with older DLC characters being entirely relegated to popular 3rd party picks.

As far as who we'll get, I think if we're getting another NES rep, it's going to be Excite Biker, and they'll bring music from ExciteTruck and ExciteBots with them. I also think Mach Rider is possible as an Echo Fighter, but that I'm much less confident in. Other than that, I think Isaac has the best shot.