Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Diddy Kong]

I’d be really hyped to see Gengar in Smash. My biggest concern is that we already have so many Gen 1 Pokémon so I’m not sure if it would be as well received as I’d hope. It’s also possible that Sakurai passes over Gengar for that reason. Still, it’s one of the most popular and consistently pushed Pokemon in the series and has never missed a game to my knowledge. I think there’s a non zero chance it could get in but if I had to put money on something it’s probably a Pokemon from a more recent generation. Hisuian Zoroark is also in my top 5 favorites and has the benefit of repping multiple gens.

Well that's true, regarding the first generation of Pokémon, but that never stopped any media. Not even Pokémon spin offs as Pokken and Pokémon Go. Am also quite confident that Squirtle and Ivysaur won't be around next time. It's probably only Pikachu, Charizard, Mewtwo (whom are pretty much free anyway, they'll always be there pretty much) and Jigglypuff (Smash 64 veteran and all).

Personally I hope they overlook these things and just focus on whoever has everlasting popularity. I'd personally like Garchomp as a Pokémon newcomer, Gengar would be more than fine too tho! And for Fire Emblem I'd prefer a character like Lyn over Alear.

 

[Gengar84]

Well that's true, regarding the first generation of Pokémon, but that never stopped any media. Not even Pokémon spin offs as Pokken and Pokémon Go. Am also quite confident that Squirtle and Ivysaur won't be around next time. It's probably only Pikachu, Charizard, Mewtwo (whom are pretty much free anyway, they'll always be there pretty much) and Jigglypuff (Smash 64 veteran and all).

Personally I hope they overlook these things and just focus on whoever has everlasting popularity. I'd personally like Garchomp as a Pokémon newcomer, Gengar would be more than fine too tho! And for Fire Emblem I'd prefer a character like Lyn over Alear.

Same here with Lyn though I’m biased for a few reasons. First, Engage just didn’t really appeal to me personally. It’s the first mainline Fire Emblem game I’ve skipped since I started playing the series with Path of Radiance. Second is that Lyn is voiced by one of my favorite voice actresses in Wendee Lee and uses a katana moveset, which is pretty unique for Smash. I think Sephiroth is our only current katana wielder and they’d be pretty different.

 

[fogbadge]

me after realizing that I voted for tommy nook and starly instead of tom nook and starfy

View attachment 393423

i realized i voted for ash instead of ashe

 

[Diddy Kong]

So one thing I noticed with Ultimate is that we often got a different character than "the expected choice".

For example, Min Min over Spring Man, Incineroar over Decidueye, Kazuya over Heihachi, Pyra and Mythra over Rex, which got me wondering... what can we expect this time around ??

 

[Gengar84]

So one thing I noticed with Ultimate is that we often got a different character than "the expected choice".

For example, Min Min over Spring Man, Incineroar over Decidueye, Kazuya over Heihachi, Pyra and Mythra over Rex, which got me wondering... what can we expect this time around ??

That’s hard to say. The very nature of those surprise picks are that they’re unpredictable. I do love those unexpected choices though. Lyn over Alear and Gengar (or other older Pokemon) over the current gen starter is another possibility. I’d love to see Nia as the Xenoblade rep and I think that’s actually possible as she’s played a prominent role in two out of three games. Thats something she and Melia have over the existing characters we have now or Noah/Mio. E.M.M.I. over Raven Beak or Sylux is also possible in the same vein as Piranha Plant. There’s a ton of out there characters I’d love to see in Smash but I’m not sure I’d go so far as to say I expect them.

 

[BuckleyTim]

I am on weapons-grade copium when it comes to the thought of a pokemon that won't represent Gen Ten getting in. I saw a thing of pokemon cards at my local retro gaming store that was promoting the Blueberry Academy mythicals and also regular Zoroark and my first thought was "they're in, boys"

So one thing I noticed with Ultimate is that we often got a different character than "the expected choice".

For example, Min Min over Spring Man, Incineroar over Decidueye, Kazuya over Heihachi, Pyra and Mythra over Rex, which got me wondering... what can we expect this time around ??

Honestly? I think it was a weird run of circumstances that just kinda gave us a lot of "Robin over Chrom" situations. Kazuya is definitely not Heihachi, but as the original protagonist / major antagonist and wielder of the devil gene I can get the logic that he should be the first rep of the series. Rex was considered... but it didn't work out hardware or gameplay wise. Spring Man wasn't even considered from the getgo admittedly, but I guess everyone involved and even the fans kinda agreed he's generic as heck as the face of the series so whatever. Incineroar... let's not pretend that he wasn't being heavily promoted by tpci (such as being in the forefront of the anime movies at the time). I genuinely think that people wanting a grass-type balance to the fully evolved starter mons kinda really skewed public perception towards Decidueye. And granted, if things didn't work out with Hero they would've put a Slime in the game...

I dunno, this is definitely my pickiness clouding everything but it just feels weird to not go with the obivious protagonists in most cases... maybe that's why i'd like XB3-era Rex and Spring Man in the future lol

 

[Perkilator]

So one thing I noticed with Ultimate is that we often got a different character than "the expected choice".

For example, Min Min over Spring Man, Incineroar over Decidueye, Kazuya over Heihachi, Pyra and Mythra over Rex, which got me wondering... what can we expect this time around ??

Well, we know that with Kazuya over Heihachi and Pyra/Mythra over Rex, it was a matter of circumstance. Rex missed out because of technical limitations and Kazuya made it in because his Devil Gene translates more naturally to Smash's gameplay. As for Min Min over Spring Man; Sakurai says it's because "everyone's the protagonist" but I assume Spring Man being an Assist Trophy in Ultimate also had something to do with it since that was a decision made back before Vol. 2 was a thing. It also helps that Min Min was popular in her own right, even before she joined the battle.

If I had to wager a guess for another case of Smash being a sidelined protagonist crossover, I guess it would depend on which franchise Sakurai wanted to pull a playable character from.

 

[Gengar84]

I think I’m in the minority here but I don’t think that the main protagonist should be a guaranteed lock as the rep from their game. If there’s a huge fan favorite side character or villain and people are kind of meh on the protagonist, I think it makes more sense to go with the other character. I don’t really have any specific examples of this exact scenario but there are quite a few non protagonists I’d personally go with first. Heres just a few for me:

Magus
Fulgore
Sub-Zero
Lu Bu
Sarah Kerrigan
Illidan Stormrage
Nightmare
Diablo

 

[Borskaboska]

I’d be really hyped to see Gengar in Smash. My biggest concern is that we already have so many Gen 1 Pokémon so I’m not sure if it would be as well received as I’d hope. It’s also possible that Sakurai passes over Gengar for that reason. Still, it’s one of the most popular and consistently pushed Pokemon in the series and has never missed a game to my knowledge. I think there’s a non zero chance it could get in but if I had to put money on something it’s probably a Pokemon from a more recent generation. Hisuian Zoroark is also in my top 5 favorites and has the benefit of repping multiple gens.

I think Gengar would be pretty well received if they got in.
however, I don't know about everyone else, but for me there are cases where there are two characters that I'd be happy with individually but wouldn't really want them both. Like, I'd be happy with Gengar or King Boo, but i feel like there is too much overlap in body type/personality/abilities to justify adding both.

Hisuian Zoroark would be sick because I just really like their design, and it would be funny to hear the announcer have to say that over and over.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I think Gengar would be pretty well received if they got in.
however, I don't know about everyone else, but for me there are cases where there are two characters that I'd be happy with individually but wouldn't really want them both. Like, I'd be happy with Gengar or King Boo, but i feel like there is too much overlap in body type/personality/abilities to justify adding both.

Hisuian Zoroark would be sick because I just really like their design, and it would be funny to hear the announcer have to say that over and over.

If Gengar and King Boo were to exist in the same Smash game, they should deal 1.5x the damage to each other.

 

[Gengar84]

I think Gengar would be pretty well received if they got in.
however, I don't know about everyone else, but for me there are cases where there are two characters that I'd be happy with individually but wouldn't really want them both. Like, I'd be happy with Gengar or King Boo, but i feel like there is too much overlap in body type/personality/abilities to justify adding both.

Hisuian Zoroark would be sick because I just really like their design, and it would be funny to hear the announcer have to say that over and over.

I had the idea of using elements from both movesets kind of like they did with Simon and Richter and just making normal Zoroark and Hisuian Zoroark alts of each other. They don’t share a ton of moves in game but in the context of Smash, they’re close enough that they could use the same animations (like Night Slash vs Shadow Claw for example).

 

[DarthEnderX]

i realized i voted for ash instead of ashe

instead of

?

I think I’m in the minority here but I don’t think that the main protagonist should be a guaranteed lock as the rep from their game. If there’s a huge fan favorite side character or villain and people are kind of meh on the protagonist, I think it makes more sense to go with the other character.

I think that makes sense in instances where the villain is much more iconic than any of the player options. Like Diablo.

 

[RileyXY1]

Well, we know that with Kazuya over Heihachi and Pyra/Mythra over Rex, it was a matter of circumstance. Rex missed out because of technical limitations and Kazuya made it in because his Devil Gene translates more naturally to Smash's gameplay. As for Min Min over Spring Man; Sakurai says it's because "everyone's the protagonist" but I assume Spring Man being an Assist Trophy in Ultimate also had something to do with it since that was a decision made back before Vol. 2 was a thing. It also helps that Min Min was popular in her own right, even before she joined the battle.

If I had to wager a guess for another case of Smash being a sidelined protagonist crossover, I guess it would depend on which franchise Sakurai wanted to pull a playable character from.

Min Min was apparently due to a request from ARMS's producer. Apparently Sakurai wanted Ninjara to be the ARMS rep, but then Kosuke Yabuki told him that Min Min should be playable, and Sakurai honored his decision.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Just a quick question; is there any way I can see what I voted for? I have a feeling I might have forgotten to vote for a character or two.

Unfortunately no, there isn't.

 

[Borskaboska]

I had the idea of using elements from both movesets kind of like they did with Simon and Richter and just making normal Zoroark and Hisuian Zoroark alts of each other. They don’t share a ton of moves in game but in the context of Smash, they’re close enough that they could use the same animations (like Night Slash vs Shadow Claw for example).

I remember when people used to propose Zoroark post-brawl, because Lucario replaced Mewtwo so obviously every game has to have a new humanoid shaped pokemon with shadow/psychic abilities. A bit silly in hindsight but its nice to see zoroark is getting another chance with genuine support.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think I’m in the minority here but I don’t think that the main protagonist should be a guaranteed lock as the rep from their game. If there’s a huge fan favorite side character or villain and people are kind of meh on the protagonist, I think it makes more sense to go with the other character. I don’t really have any specific examples of this exact scenario but there are quite a few non protagonists I’d personally go with first. Heres just a few for me:

Magus
Fulgore
Sub-Zero
Lu Bu
Sarah Kerrigan
Illidan Stormrage
Nightmare
Diablo

Personally, I think Crono absolutely should be the first Chrono Trigger character. Only adding a villain who's only around for one story arc

Spoiler: Spoilers for Chrono Trigger

and is an otherwise missable party member

would be a very strange decision. I would at the very least add Marle or Frog or someone a part of the main cast before or alongside him.

On the flip side, Fulgore I think is the pick to go with over Jago. If we're talking SoulCalibur, Nightmare also seems like the logical choice to me. Sub Zero over Scorpion would be kinda weird, but not especially jarring since they tend to share the spotlight anyway. Honestly, I think Scorpion, Sub Zero, Liu Kang, Raiden and even Johnny Kage could be swapped out from game to game and it wouldn't be all that weird.

I don't know enough about Dynasty Warriors, Diablo, or...Starcraft? to really comment on those. For Warcraft I feel The Litch King is the most obvious pick, but my experience with the series is seeing all of the ads for the new WoW update, which at the time was Wrath of the Litch King, so I'm probably not the best source there. I think I also saw Mists of Pandaria, but I barely paid attention. lol

 

[Gengar84]

Personally, I think Crono absolutely should be the first Chrono Trigger character. Only adding a villain who's only around for one story arc

Spoiler: Spoilers for Chrono Trigger

and is an otherwise missable party member

would be a very strange decision. I would at the very least add Marle or Frog or someone a part of the main cast before or alongside him.

On the flip side, Fulgore I think is the pick to go with over Jago. If we're talking SoulCalibur, Nightmare also seems like the logical choice to me. Sub Zero over Scorpion would be kinda weird, but not especially jarring since they tend to share the spotlight anyway. Honestly, I think Scorpion, Sub Zero, Liu Kang, Raiden and even Johnny Kage could be swapped out from game to game and it wouldn't be all that weird.

I don't know enough about Dynasty Warriors, Diablo, or...Starcraft? to really comment on those. For Warcraft I feel The Litch King is the most obvious pick, but my experience with the series is seeing all of the ads for the new WoW update, which at the time was Wrath of the Litch King, so I'm probably not the best source there. I think I also saw Mists of Pandaria, but I barely paid attention. lol

Yeah, Crono is objectively the more logical choice but I personally much prefer Magus. I think there are at least a few arguments that can be used in favor of Magus despite being less likely. I’ve mentioned this a few times but I’ll bring it up again.

First is that Magus was also a major part of Radical Dreamers and was planned for Chrono Cross where Crono himself is only prominent in the first game. My idea was to combine elements of Magus and Guile in one moveset and use them as alts to represent the series as a whole. For those that don’t know, Guile was originally meant to be Magus but that was dropped due to time constraints but later hinted at in subsequent releases.

Second is that Magus is more visually distinct from Hero and has a unique weapon for Smash where Crono is another silent protagonist swordsman. Finally, he’s mostly just a personal bias pick because I like him but at least he’s not completely without merit.

I’m not really trying to make a case that my choices are the most likely or deserving for Smash. Just what would personally make me the most excited where I can still at least make a case for them.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

I would say with Warcraft that the best picks might be Thrall or Lich King. Lich King is probably the most iconic character overall and is very important and popular while frequently being featured in crossovers, and Thrall is in a similar boat, Thrall is basically the "main character" of Warcraft for a lot of its history. Between the two I would say Thrall makes a bit more sense due to that. He's an orc, which are probably the single most iconic and important aspect of Warcraft in general.

Kerrigan is absolutely the Starcraft pick as well, much as I love Zeratul lol.

 

[Gengar84]

I would say with Warcraft that the best picks might be Thrall or Lich King. Lich King is probably the most iconic character overall and is very important and popular while frequently being featured in crossovers, and Thrall is in a similar boat, Thrall is basically the "main character" of Warcraft for a lot of its history. Between the two I would say Thrall makes a bit more sense due to that. He's an orc, which are probably the single most iconic and important aspect of Warcraft in general.

Kerrigan is absolutely the Starcraft pick as well, much as I love Zeratul lol.

I’m happy with pretty much any of them because they’d all be so cool and unique but Illidan’s a personal favorite of mine. I do love the ice element though so the Lich King would be awesome too. He might be the most likely WarCraft character to represent the RTS elements because I can picture him summoning undead units for a special or two. Illidan’s always strikes me as more of a loner so I think he’d stick to being a strictly solo fighter.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Am also quite confident that Squirtle and Ivysaur won't be around next time. It's probably only Pikachu, Charizard, Mewtwo (whom are pretty much free anyway, they'll always be there pretty much) and Jigglypuff (Smash 64 veteran and all).

I'm not so sure about that because Sakurai said Smash 3DS made Pokemon Trainer basically impossible to implement, alongside the Ice Climbers not working properly and the separation of characters like Zelda/Sheik and Samus/ZSS.

I'm of the opinion that without those limitations, Pokemon Trainer will probably keep coming back in full from this point on.

 

[Louie G.]

Pokemon is the biggest crapshoot by far. There’s pretty much no scenario where we don’t lose a valuable addition to the cast, everyone other than IMO Pikachu, Greninja and maybe Charizard are theoretically on the table. I know some people will probably argue in favor of Lucario but I think their value is slightly overestimated.

I’m not saying some aren’t more likely than others to be cut… but at this rate it’s hard to believe it would only be Pichu and (very, very unfortunately) Incineroar. Pokemon Trainer ought to stay sure, but are Squirtle and Ivysaur more valuable than two other characters that could be dealt those resources instead? I really don’t know yet. Space is limited and Pokemon is relatively ripe for the picking.

 

[Noipoi]

Pokemon is the biggest crapshoot by far. There’s pretty much no scenario where we don’t lose a valuable addition to the cast, everyone other than IMO Pikachu and Greninja are theoretically on the table.

I’m not saying some aren’t more likely than others to be cut… but at this rate it’s hard to believe it would only be Pichu and (very, very unfortunately) Incineroar.

Tiger Mask will be missed. Perhaps not by many, but by a select few who relished in clotheslining jabronies…

But yeah, I could see one more pocket monster being cut along with Pichu and Incineroar. Add in whatever new fighter they choose and there’s a solid six Pokémon on the roster. (Technically, we’re counting PKMN Trainer as one entity here )

As to who it would be, I dunno. It should probably be Jigglypuff but she’s got 64 seniority.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Tiger Mask will be missed. Perhaps not by many, but by a select few who relished in clotheslining jabronies…

But yeah, I could see one more pocket monster being cut along with Pichu and Incineroar. Add in whatever new fighter they choose and there’s a solid six Pokémon on the roster. (Technically, we’re counting PKMN Trainer as one entity here )

As to who it would be, I dunno. It should probably be Jigglypuff but she’s got 64 seniority.

Personally when I made my roster, I cut Lucario so he can maybe get a slight rework later because I really hate Smash Lucario lmao

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Pokemon is the biggest crapshoot by far. There’s pretty much no scenario where we don’t lose a valuable addition to the cast, everyone other than IMO Pikachu, Greninja and maybe Charizard are theoretically on the table. I know some people will probably argue in favor of Lucario but I think their value is slightly overestimated.

On the contrary. If you're valuing Greninja so highly you kind of have to do the same for Lucario.
Lucario is a prevalent force that has been consistent within the franchise since its debut. Greninja has fallen off in comparison.

 

[Louie G.]

On the contrary. If you're valuing Greninja so highly you kind of have to do the same for Lucario.
Lucario is a prevalent force that has been consistent within the franchise since its debut. Greninja has fallen off in comparison.

Fair enough, I just think Greninja feels more compelling gameplay wise and the upcoming return to Kalos will likely put him in the spotlight more prominently over the next couple years. I probably wouldn’t uniquely put him on that pedestal otherwise.

Lucario is on paper super important but, from my admittedly biased perspective (I reaaally don’t like his implementation - don’t mind the Pokemon), really inspires little on the front of a fun dynamic moveset and that may make him a bit more expendable among such colorful company. But I obviously understand where everyone is coming from on him.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I think Mewtwo, Lucario and Greninja are kinda non-negotiable. All stood the test of time and are probably within the top 10 most popular Pokemon. I can't see any suitable replacements.

Just remember the outcry for Mewtwo in Smash 4.

Lucario might not enjoy the same popularity in Smash, but I'd say they need to rework him anyway.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I think Mewtwo, Lucario and Greninja are kinda non-negotiable. All stood the test of time and are probably within the top 10 most popular Pokemon. I can't see any suitable replacements.

Mewtwo actually hasn't been for some time now.

Mewtwo isn't unpopular now, but to say he's in the Top10 simply isn't so accurate anymore.

In comparison, there's on Gen 1 Pokémon that's been popular for decades, even more so than Mewtwo, that is still not in Smash.

 

[Noipoi]

At the very least I think Gengar should be a pokeball summon. One like Scizor where it’s actions are a little more robust.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

As far as Pokémon characters go, Pikachu is safe. No ifs, ands, or buts. Jigglypuff is in a weird spot because she's kind of annoying to justify including or excluding. Once again her being easy to implement will probably be her saving grace here if she gets in. Pichu is probably gone, perhaps for good this time. Mewtwo is very important to have, and is relatively safe, but may end up as DLC or something, especially considering how many other important Gen 1 reps there are. Pokémon Trainer is extremely important, but takes up too many slots with characters nobody cares about, except for Charizard, who's non-negotiable. Lucario is extremely popular and, IIRC, one of the few Pokémon that have always been present since Dexit. Very strong inclusion, but competition is tight. Greninja is also very popular, and hasn't missed a game, though it tends to be DLC. Maybe that will be reflected here? Incineroar is pretty much the same deal as Greninja, but with it's popularity being focused on the compettitive community, and general smash audiances not really caring for them. It's probably doomed.

All in all I think Pikachu and Charizard are the only ones that can be garunteed, with every other pick having a strong case for and against them, even if it's just limited roster space.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I think Mewtwo, Lucario and Greninja are kinda non-negotiable. All stood the test of time and are probably within the top 10 most popular Pokemon. I can't see any suitable replacements.

Just remember the outcry for Mewtwo in Smash 4.

Lucario might not enjoy the same popularity in Smash, but I'd say they need to rework him anyway.

I would agree, but Mewtwo has missed out on two base rosters in the past lol

Do I think he'll be in the next game? Definitely, if not base roster than like the first DLC veteran to come back, maybe even the early adopter bonus again like Smash 4.

Is he guaranteed beyond a shadow of a doubt? I can't really say that given his precedent lol

 

[BritishGuy54]

Re: Pokémon

Probably the most vulnerable franchise when it comes to potential cuts. Yes, I’d say even Fire Emblem will have a better time than Pokémon.

- It’s Pikachu. No question as to if he should stay.
- The weakest link of the original 12 (a concept I don’t find very convincing), and has nearly been cut in Brawl and Smash 4. I’d say now is a vulnerable time for Jigglypuff.
- The only unique Melee character to have been cut going into Brawl, so Mewtwo has that against itself.
- One of Smash’s weakest links. Most will agree Pichu is likely not coming back.
- Even when the Trainer was cut from Smash 4, Charizard had enough to return on his own. I think he’s safe.
- I’m not confident they’d stay around. I just see Mewtwo and Jigglypuff as higher priority ‘mons from Gen 1.
- I don’t think he’s overestimated. I wouldn’t be surprised if he did get cut, but he’s on the same tier as , as expendable enough to consider cutting, but I think he’ll stay around.
- Most popular Pokémon in 2020, if I recall. I think that will help him stay. And we don’t know what Z-A holds just yet.
- Despite a unique wrestler moveset, I think they might drop him.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yes, I’d say even Fire Emblem will have a better time than Pokémon.

I agree. Fire Emblem's a case of trimming the fat. There are some hard cuts there like Roy, but people are kind of annoyed with the Marth clones, so missing out on half of them for a game or two isn't the biggest deal in the world. As long as you have Marth, Ike, and Robin, I think you're good, especially if you add someone else like Byleth, or a newcomer.

Pokémon on the other hand, is extremely lean and beefy, with Pichu really being the only fat on it. Even if you add Jigglypuff to that list because you don't care about legacy picks, there's still 8 more characters that have strong reasons to keep them around. Reducing the Pokémon character count to just 6 will be tough, especially considering someone new is going to be added, and it'll hurt even more if you need to go lower.

 

[Will]

- Even when the Trainer was cut from Smash 4, Charizard had enough to return on his own. I think he’s safe.
- I’m not confident they’d stay around. I just see Mewtwo and Jigglypuff as higher priority ‘mons from Gen 1.

We don’t live in times of technical difficulties and weak hardware anymore. They’re back to being a package deal now and won’t change again, imo, unless they repurpose the Trainer character for a different generation. Only then in that specific scenario could I see Solozard coming back.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

We don’t live in times of technical difficulties and weak hardware anymore. They’re back to being a package deal now and won’t change again, imo, unless they repurpose the Trainer character for a different generation. Only then in that specific scenario could I see Solozard coming back.

I agree with this, I think the only reason we'll see Pokemon Trainer not be a package is if either they make a new Trainer, or if Pokemon Trainer is worked on so late in development that Squirtle and Ivysaur are completely incapable of being finished in time, which I doubt would be the case for a trio character and would likely impact Charizard too anyway.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

One thing I've thought about was repurposing Pokémon Trainer such that they can use any three of the playable Pokémon on the roster, perhaps having Pikachu, Eevee, and Charizard as the default or something. This would keep the concept around while getting rid of Squirtle and Ivysaur, but would make developing the rest of the Pokémon characters more of a headache. I don't know how good of a tradeoff that would be.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

One thing I've thought about was repurposing Pokémon Trainer such that they can use any three of the playable Pokémon on the roster, perhaps having Pikachu, Eevee, and Charizard as the default or something. This would keep the concept around while getting rid of Squirtle and Ivysaur, but would make developing the rest of the Pokémon characters more of a headache. I don't know how good of a tradeoff that would be.

I don't think that'd be a very fair trade off because while you no longer have to make Squirtle and Ivysaur, you still add in Eevee and then need to make two versions of every Pokemon (one with a full moveset as a solo character and one that can utilize the swap mechanics) or at least change their code to allow for swapping only in specific scenarios rather than just making three characters that are always able to do it lol

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don't think Lucario will ever be cut.

 

[Guynamednelson]

We don’t live in times of technical difficulties and weak hardware anymore. They’re back to being a package deal now and won’t change again, imo, unless they repurpose the Trainer character for a different generation. Only then in that specific scenario could I see Solozard coming back.

At the same time, they thought were all worth giving their own separate slots to in a non-EIH game that had to make do with removing transformations, but only one PT mon. And it's the one that gets marketed the most.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I don't think Lucario will ever be cut.

My thoughts as well.

are the absolute safest regardless of any circumstances.

With being completely dependent on returning, which would only NOT happen because of outside circumstances (aka hardware issues). Which at this point in time is not a likely circumstance.

Everyone else, yes including , is up in the air. But to be fair to the frog, he's relatively safe unless we get another Brawl style purge.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I don't think that'd be a very fair trade off because while you no longer have to make Squirtle and Ivysaur, you still add in Eevee and then need to make two versions of every Pokemon (one with a full moveset as a solo character and one that can utilize the swap mechanics) or at least change their code to allow for swapping only in specific scenarios rather than just making three characters that are always able to do it lol

Eevee isn't a requirement, but not adding a character like that would introduce the problem of there not being a very good set of defaults unless it's something like Charizard, Greninja, Incineroar, or other fully evolved starter veteran/newcomer combo. Even so it's not like Eevee is a bad inclusion, and I do think it wouldn't be a bad idea to add it even by itself.

The other part is the big problem in my eyes since while replacing down special isn't all that big a to-do, making sure every Pokémon is balanced such that it has strengths and weaknesses that play off each other without being confusing or taking up too much dev time might just be infeasible, especially with a lot of the existing Pokémon being pretty weird, and having weird potential combos like Pikachu, Pichu, Squirtle, or Incineroar, Charizard, Mewtwo. Heck, any combination involving Pichu, Lucario, and a heavy could be potentially problematic. lol

EDIT: Granted, all of these combos involve characters that would probably be dropped, but it's still a problem.