Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Garteam]

I'll be honest, I think Lyn and an additional Three Houses character have missed the boat to get into Smash.

Barring Chrom being added as an echo, Smash seems to exclusively look to the future when it comes to adding Fire Emblem characters. That (kind of) makes sense, Sakurai wants representation relatively up to the date. Elibe and Fodlan also presently have Roy and Byleth as popular representatives with well-liked, existing movesets. I can't see efficiency-oriented Sakurai throwing out that work to replace them with an alternative character just because there's another character from those games solely because they did better on CYL. There would need to be a K. Rool-tier push to give Lyn, Edelgard, or Dimitri a real chance at getting into Smash on the grounds of being a fan favourite.

 

[dezeray112]

I'll be honest, I think Lyn and an additional Three Houses character have missed the boat to get into Smash.

I still wished that Lyn was a playable character instead of an assist trophy back in Brawl (which for me was a slight missed opportunity.)

As I had said in regards to a Three Houses character, I still wished they picked a different character instead of Byleth (if I had to be honest.)

 

[Perkilator]

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Man…I still love Smash but Rayman and Crash not getting in still stings to me.

 

[RileyXY1]

I'll be honest, I think Lyn and an additional Three Houses character have missed the boat to get into Smash.

Barring Chrom being added as an echo, Smash seems to exclusively look to the future when it comes to adding Fire Emblem characters. That (kind of) makes sense, Sakurai wants representation relatively up to the date. Elibe and Fodlan also presently have Roy and Byleth as popular representatives with well-liked, existing movesets. I can't see efficiency-oriented Sakurai throwing out that work to replace them with an alternative character just because there's another character from those games solely because they did better on CYL. There would need to be a K. Rool-tier push to give Lyn, Edelgard, or Dimitri a real chance at getting into Smash on the grounds of being a fan favourite.

Chrom did have that fan push, and even then he only got in as an Echo and not as a unique character so any old Pokémon/FE characters that do get in will very likely only be Echo Fighters.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I still wished that Lyn was a playable character instead of an assist trophy back in Brawl (which for me was a slight missed opportunity.)

As I had said in regards to a Three Houses character, I still wished they picked a different character instead of Byleth (if I had to be honest.)

Lyn really could've been added in Brawl alongside Ike. However with the data we have, Roy was to be the 3rd character from Fire Emblem in that game.

Byleth was a fine choice, especially with the move set they had, even if I find it underwhelming myself. I'd prefer their canonical abilities.

With how big Three Houses blew up, honestly all the main characters should have been included. But at the expense of some of the cast we have now.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Lucario, unfortunately like a lot of other characters, has a lot of his popularity diminished when he's sluggish, slow, floaty, and has a defeatist character mechanic.

Well, it's kinda the opposite of a defeatist mechanic, but it is quite possibly the worst implementation of a comeback mechanic ever. I wonder if it works how it is now because of Rage.

I'll be honest, I think Lyn and an additional Three Houses character have missed the boat to get into Smash.

Barring Chrom being added as an echo, Smash seems to exclusively look to the future when it comes to adding Fire Emblem characters. That (kind of) makes sense, Sakurai wants representation relatively up to the date. Elibe and Fodlan also presently have Roy and Byleth as popular representatives with well-liked, existing movesets. I can't see efficiency-oriented Sakurai throwing out that work to replace them with an alternative character just because there's another character from those games solely because they did better on CYL. There would need to be a K. Rool-tier push to give Lyn, Edelgard, or Dimitri a real chance at getting into Smash on the grounds of being a fan favourite.

Well I mean, Lyn is obviously not getting in on relevance. lol

Does she not have that kind of fan push? I suppose that makes sense considering they don't particularly care about Fire Emblem at the moment. It will feel kind of weird if Fire Emblem gets nothing though.

 

[HyperSomari64]

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Man…I still love Smash but Rayman and Crash not getting in still stings to me.

Finally!!!
The full roster of "Scrimblo Bimblo: the Loveable Scrunko". I know Banjo is coming, but it's fine.

 

[Gengar84]

I’m kind of indifferent on both Crash and Rayman but I’d rather see Crash if I had to pick one. Crash had more of that console mascot status on the PS1 and was seen as a rival to Mario at that time. Getting both Crash and Master Chief would almost be a dream crossover of console icons along with Mario despite my personal lack of experience with either Crash or Halo. Rayman, on the other hand, is still from a popular platformer series but doesn’t really have that same hook. Like pretty much any other character, I’m not opposed to either of their inclusions and I’d be happy for their fans but neither are really at the top of my most wanted list.

 

[DKing]

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Man…I still love Smash but Rayman and Crash not getting in still stings to me.

Hopefully they will make it in next game base or DLC.

 

[Lenidem]

I'm on board with Crash and Rayman. I'd go so far as to say that their absence in Ultimate feels a bit weird. They totally have the "Nintendo look" (you know what I mean) and would fit like a glove.

Master Chief would also be great, of course, but I never really played Halo, so I don't care as much.

On an unrelated note, I could totally see SD Link replace Toon Link in the next Smash, because, you know, "relevancy". Not sure how I would feel about it though, I think I prefer Toon Link, for his cuteness, his expressiveness, and how important his main game was for the Zelda franchise (in comparison, the two SD games look like foot-notes, so far).

 

[Perkilator]

I'm on board with Crash and Rayman. I'd go so far as to say that their absence in Ultimate feels a bit weird. They totally have the "Nintendo look" (you know what I mean) and would fit like a glove.

Master Chief would also be great, of course, but I never really played Halo, so I don't care as much.

On an unrelated note, I could totally see SD Link replace Toon Link in the next Smash, because, you know, "relevancy". Not sure how I would feel about it though, I think I prefer Toon Link, for his cuteness, his expressiveness, and how important his main game was for the Zelda franchise (in comparison, the two SD games look like foot-notes, so far).

Wait, “SD”? I’m sure you mean the Link’s Awakening remake and Echoes of Wisdom, but that doesn’t help me understand what “SD” stands for.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Wait, “SD”? I’m sure you mean the Link’s Awakening remake and Echoes of Wisdom, but that doesn’t help me understand what “SD” stands for.

Super Deformed.

 

[osby]

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Man…I still love Smash but Rayman and Crash not getting in still stings to me.

Some people really want Smash to be a platforming crossover and nothing else, huh?

(This is about the tweet, not your post)

 

[Gengar84]

I’ve actually never played a Rayman game at all but I’ve played about 10 minutes of Crash 1 at a store and half an hour of Halo with my friend once online. I’m not the best competitive player so that experience wasn’t great. The Rayman games do look pretty fun though and I’d probably have more interest in Rayman in Smash if I actually played his games. He looks like he’d be a fun character to play.

 

[Lenidem]

Wait, “SD”? I’m sure you mean the Link’s Awakening remake and Echoes of Wisdom, but that doesn’t help me understand what “SD” stands for.

"Super Deformed", as he said. It's that kind of art style. There is an entire remake of the Dragon Ball manga called "Dragon Ball SD", for instance.

 

[DKing]

I’ve actually never played a Rayman game at all but I’ve played about 10 minutes of Crash 1 at a store and half an hour of Halo with my friend once online. I’m not the best competitive player so that experience wasn’t great. The Rayman games do look pretty fun though and I’d probably have more interest in Rayman in Smash if I actually played his games. He probably would be a fun character to play.

You could try Rayman legends it's pretty fun .

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Well, it's kinda the opposite of a defeatist mechanic, but it is quite possibly the worst implementation of a comeback mechanic ever. I wonder if it works how it is now because of Rage.


Well I mean, Lyn is obviously not getting in on relevance. lol

Does she not have that kind of fan push? I suppose that makes sense considering they don't particularly care about Fire Emblem at the moment. It will feel kind of weird if Fire Emblem gets nothing though.

I feel like Lyn is in the same boat as Midna in that they’re both ridiculously popular characters in their own fanbase, but their popularity doesn’t translate to a deliberate push for Smash in the same way that it does for someone like, say, Ashley or Skull Kid.

 

[Louie G.]

I feel like Lyn is in the same boat as Midna in that they’re both ridiculously popular characters in their own fanbase, but their popularity doesn’t translate to a deliberate push for Smash in the same way that it does for someone like, say, Ashley or Skull Kid.

I don’t know if I’d say Lyn has notably less Smash popularity than Ashley, it’s definitely visible enough, but I would say that Fire Emblem’s current state / flow of representation has pushed her further out of the conversation than she would be otherwise.

I equate it to if Lucario or Grenina didn’t get added and we got someone different. For the coming years we’d say “damn it’s actually kinda weird we don’t have Lucario in Smash yet, they should have added him”, but the series trucks forward and sees new faces every game. So the movement becomes distracted and probably just kind of pessimistic at this point.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

When you think about it, it is kind of weird how community perception of characters as a possibility operates. It's like "Yeah they're not getting in because fan demand is all they got." Meanwhile, in Smash Bros.: * And then you have the flip side in which Waluigi, the epitome of "just because you're popular doesn't mean you're getting in", is the character that the entire fan base is entirely confident on them being in. I wonder why that is.


*Before you yell at me I know fan demand isn't the only reason why Sora was an attractive pick, but considering the hurdles, it's probably what had Sakurai jump on the opportunity in the first place.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

When you think about it, it is kind of weird how community perception of characters as a possibility operates. It's like "Yeah they're not getting in because fan demand is all they got." Meanwhile, in Smash Bros.: * And then you have the flip side in which Waluigi, the epitome of "just because you're popular doesn't mean you're getting in", is the character that the entire fan base is entirely confident on them being in. I wonder why that is.


*Before you yell at me I know fan demand isn't the only reason why Sora was an attractive pick, but considering the hurdles, it's probably what had Sakurai jump on the opportunity in the first place.

Don’t really see how Ridley and K. Rool (main villains of their respective series and main characters in some of the most beloved games in Nintendo’s catalog) “only had fan demand going for them”. Besides, characters like Waluigi, K. Rool, Ridley and Geno consistently have or have had some of the biggest support bases in Smash history, which is a completely different scale than Lyn popping up here and there as wistful counterargument to Corrin’s existence.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You know what we might be sleeping on? A surprise pick from Pokémon. The series has so many creature designs that are both ridiculously silly and fairly well known from Psiduck to Bidoof. Since Pokémon (potentially) doesn't really have a hot new generation to pull from, what if we get something like that instead?

EDIT: I just pictured one of Bidoof's moves being to gnaw off a log and use it as a battering item. Just the image of a tiny Bidoof carrying a giant freaking log and bashing people on the head with it...I'm ded.
EDIT EDIT: And then when Chrom picks it up, he can wield it like a spear as a reference to the joke item from Fire Emblem: Awakening. It just keeps getting funnier.

Don’t really see how Ridley and K. Rool (main villains of their respective series and main characters in some of the most beloved games in Nintendo’s catalog) “only had fan demand going for them”. Besides, characters like Waluigi, K. Rool, Ridley and Geno consistently have or have had some of the biggest support bases in Smash history, which is a completely different scale than Lyn popping up here and there as wistful counterargument to Corrin’s existence.

I feel like Lyn had a bit more than that, especially since she was popular far before Corrin was added.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Don’t really see how Ridley and K. Rool (main villains of their respective series and main characters in some of the most beloved games in Nintendo’s catalog) “only had fan demand going for them”. Besides, characters like Waluigi, K. Rool, Ridley and Geno consistently have or have had some of the biggest support bases in Smash history, which is a completely different scale than Lyn popping up here and there as wistful counterargument to Corrin’s existence.

Considering that Sakurai himself believed in Ridley being too big, and the new DKC games were Kremling-free, I think fan demand would've been a huge, huge reason why they were able to be more than a boss and a Mii costume.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Considering that Sakurai himself believed in Ridley being too big, and the new DKC games were Kremling-free, I think fan demand would've been a huge, huge reason why they were able to be more than a boss and a Mii costume.

That still doesn’t make that fan demand the only reason Ridley and K. Rool were attractive picks. Even then, I can’t think of a character currently deemed unlikely by the community whose demand is not eclipsed by the demand Ridley and K. Rool had by several magnitudes.

You know what we might be sleeping on? A surprise pick from Pokémon. The series has so many creature designs that are both ridiculously silly and fairly well known from Psiduck to Bidoof. Since Pokémon (potentially) doesn't really have a hot new generation to pull from, what if we get something like that instead?

EDIT: I just pictured one of Bidoof's moves being to gnaw off a log and use it as a battering item. Just the image of a tiny Bidoof carrying a giant freaking log and bashing people on the head with it...I'm ded.
EDIT EDIT: And then when Chrom picks it up, he can wield it like a spear as a reference to the joke item from Fire Emblem: Awakening. It just keeps getting funnier.


I feel like Lyn had a bit more than that, especially since she was popular far before Corrin was added.

A small bird Pokémon like Fletchling or Pidgey might be one of my most wanted when it comes to Pokémon. Lyn does have more demand than being the poster child of “I wish Fire Emblem made better choices” but it still doesn’t come close to the type of demand Ridley or K. Rool had going for them, even if you subscribe to the notion that’s the only reason they made the cut.

 

[Guynamednelson]

That still doesn’t make that fan demand the only reason Ridley and K. Rool were attractive picks

Wasn't Nintendo surprised by how well-received K. Rool was? Because if so, that doesn't make him seem like the kind of character they would want in Smash, especially since, you know, the newer DKC games lack Kremlings.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Wasn't Nintendo surprised by how well-received K. Rool was? Because if so, that doesn't make him seem like the kind of character they would want in Smash, especially since, you know, the newer DKC games lack Kremlings.

I think we’re just operating on different definitions here. His fan demand might’ve put the scales in favor of K. Rool, but him being a main villain in some of the best received Nintendo games is still a factor.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Don’t really see how Ridley and K. Rool (main villains of their respective series and main characters in some of the most beloved games in Nintendo’s catalog) “only had fan demand going for them”. Besides, characters like Waluigi, K. Rool, Ridley and Geno consistently have or have had some of the biggest support bases in Smash history, which is a completely different scale than Lyn popping up here and there as wistful counterargument to Corrin’s existence.

K.Rool and Ridley fought an uphill battle. K.Rool didn't and still doesn't have any new mainline appearances and was sidelined for new villian types in newer DKC games, and Ridley was denied for not really fitting in. Too big was a meme for a reason.

 

[Borskaboska]

I think Lyn's biggest strength, besides fan demand, is that she has a pretty strong gameplay concept. Her animations in her home game are pretty striking, you can really envision how shed play like a speedy samurai who can rush in and move so fast they seem to teleport. And the crit animation where she appears to attack from multiple directions at once from sheer speed is prime final smash material. The only other character who covers a similar archetype is Mythra, her side special specifically seeming like something Lyn could do.

You know what we might be sleeping on? A surprise pick from Pokémon. The series has so many creature designs that are both ridiculously silly and fairly well known from Psiduck to Bidoof. Since Pokémon (potentially) doesn't really have a hot new generation to pull from, what if we get something like that instead?

One day I'll convince people that serperior is the perfect pokemon newcomer.

 

[JCKirbs]

When you think about it, it is kind of weird how community perception of characters as a possibility operates. It's like "Yeah they're not getting in because fan demand is all they got." Meanwhile, in Smash Bros.: * And then you have the flip side in which Waluigi, the epitome of "just because you're popular doesn't mean you're getting in", is the character that the entire fan base is entirely confident on them being in. I wonder why that is.


*Before you yell at me I know fan demand isn't the only reason why Sora was an attractive pick, but considering the hurdles, it's probably what had Sakurai jump on the opportunity in the first place.

Beyond the Smash Ballot having direct influence on Ultimate's base roster newcomers, I think there was just value in having a pre-established, unique set of moves that are near-exclusive to said characters in question. I recall Sakurai mentioning during the DLC cycle that he would consider characters if he can make a moveset with them, which looks kind of strange at face-value because you could technically make any character work in a Smash game. Although, I could imagine that means actually having a base structure of abilities to work with, rather than constantly making up moves to fill the void of a character having little to nothing aside from standard punches, kicks, etc. I think this is particularly applicable to "Special Moves", hence the name.

Alright, time to throw Waluigi under the bus.

Mainly because that's the character I would be most referring to, the character who had his spot side-swiped by a Piranha Plant for reasons I'm not necessarily surprised by. Even in mods/fan-games, you have Waluigi using Dice Blocks, swimming in mid-air, and even just shouting the word "WAAAAH" because he has little to no genuine source material that is unique and consistent with his character. The most interesting and fitting parts of his hypothetical movesets happened to revolve around the usage of his tennis racket, something he's actually known for using in a Smash context, while highlighting his original appearance coming from a Mario Tennis game. Meanwhile, Piranha Plant already had an entourage of variants to draw from, which made its style of gameplay exceptionally unique and seemingly easier to work with Ultimate's development cycle, at least from a suspected cut-from-base-roster-added-as-DLC-instead perspective.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I think Lyn's biggest strength, besides fan demand, is that she has a pretty strong gameplay concept. Her animations in her home game are pretty striking, you can really envision how shed play like a speedy samurai who can rush in and move so fast they seem to teleport. And the crit animation where she appears to attack from multiple directions at once from sheer speed is prime final smash material. The only other character who covers a similar archetype is Mythra, her side special specifically seeming like something Lyn could do.


One day I'll convince people that serperior is the perfect pokemon newcomer.

Supporting Serperior because I too, live and die by being a Contrarian

 

[Perkilator]

Going back to Rayman and Crash:

1. If I could have my way, Rayman would be a Sm4sh DLC newcomer, and Crash would be an Ultimate DLC newcomer
2. This fan design of Crash I came across on Twitter would be cool if it was Crash’s official Smash design.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Guynamednelson]

but him being a main villain in some of the best received Nintendo games

Said "best received Nintendo games" are also...not the latest Donkey Kong games. At least Lyn makes an appearance in the newest FE game.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Said "best received Nintendo games" are also...not the latest Donkey Kong games. At least Lyn makes an appearance in the newest FE game.

I have never argued for or against any point that has even a remote resemblance to the nitpicking you are doing here.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

You know what we might be sleeping on? A surprise pick from Pokémon. The series has so many creature designs that are both ridiculously silly and fairly well known from Psiduck to Bidoof. Since Pokémon (potentially) doesn't really have a hot new generation to pull from, what if we get something like that instead?

Finally. Hariyama's time to shine.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I'll be honest, I think Lyn and an additional Three Houses character have missed the boat to get into Smash.

Barring Chrom being added as an echo, Smash seems to exclusively look to the future when it comes to adding Fire Emblem characters. That (kind of) makes sense, Sakurai wants representation relatively up to the date. Elibe and Fodlan also presently have Roy and Byleth as popular representatives with well-liked, existing movesets. I can't see efficiency-oriented Sakurai throwing out that work to replace them with an alternative character just because there's another character from those games solely because they did better on CYL. There would need to be a K. Rool-tier push to give Lyn, Edelgard, or Dimitri a real chance at getting into Smash on the grounds of being a fan favourite.

This is my mindset as well for characters like Lyn. Fire Emblem typically goes for the protagonist/main lord of their most recent title, and while Lyn does appear in Engage and you can equip her to the main character if you'd like, she's still not the actual main character, that'd be Alear.

I do kind of wish Lyn had been playable in Brawl alongside Ike since they're the most popular characters, but Path of Radiance having come out in April 2005 meant Ike was likely always going to edge her out, especially with Roy being planned and worked on to a degree and being from the same setting (Elibe). Fire Emblem wasn't exactly in a position to have as many characters as Mario back in 2006 lol

 

[JCKirbs]

I'll be honest, I think Lyn and an additional Three Houses character have missed the boat to get into Smash.

Barring Chrom being added as an echo, Smash seems to exclusively look to the future when it comes to adding Fire Emblem characters. That (kind of) makes sense, Sakurai wants representation relatively up to the date. Elibe and Fodlan also presently have Roy and Byleth as popular representatives with well-liked, existing movesets. I can't see efficiency-oriented Sakurai throwing out that work to replace them with an alternative character just because there's another character from those games solely because they did better on CYL. There would need to be a K. Rool-tier push to give Lyn, Edelgard, or Dimitri a real chance at getting into Smash on the grounds of being a fan favourite.

It's almost amusing to realize that fans of characters from (J)RPGs might actually have it the hardest when their characters are the most loathed by the more 'vocal' parts of the fanbase.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I gotta hand it to Lyn for beating out Hector for both the first CYL and being the chosen pick for the Blazing Blade Emblem in Engage but other than that her role in Engage or Fire Emblem is not a spectacularly stand-out one.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The more that I think about it, and the more silly options people keep suggesting, I think that after two "hot new starter" picks, Pokémon could use a shakeup like this. So I think I'm going all in. When it comes to Pokémon, bring on the stupid Sakurai!

 

[Louie G.]

other than that her role in Engage or Fire Emblem is not a spectacularly stand-out one.

Not for nothing, but this is literally the series portal on the Nintendo JP site. You're welcome to have that opinion but I think Nintendo disagrees with you. That is to say nothing about her chances for Smash right now but her role in the series is one held in pretty high esteem.

And it kinda makes sense. Lyn is likely the first protagonist that a lot of western fans got to experience. Presumably her popularity is still strong in Japan as well so this doesn't paint the entire picture, but it does at least partially explain why she remains kind of a special case.

 

[Noipoi]

The more that I think about it, and the more silly options people keep suggesting, I think that after two "hot new starter" picks, Pokémon could use a shakeup like this. So I think I'm going all in. When it comes to Pokémon, bring on the stupid Sakurai!

DUDUNSPARCE
Digs the scene!

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Not for nothing, but this is literally the series portal on the Nintendo JP site. You're welcome to have that opinion but I think Nintendo disagrees with you. That is to say nothing about her chances for Smash right now but her role in the series is one held in pretty high esteem.

View attachment 393452

And it kinda makes sense. Lyn is likely the first protagonist that a lot of western fans got to experience. Presumably her popularity is still strong in Japan as well so this doesn't paint the entire picture, but it does at least partially explain why she remains kind of a special case.

ugh fine all hail lyn overlord of the plains