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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

ninjahmos

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Well... Considering we're just got 300 votes!!! And it's my birthday!!!


I'll share the top few Fire Emblem results.

It goes Lyn, big drop off, Black Knight, big drop off, Tiki, Edelgard, Anna, Alear, and Hector.

Armors have taken over.

Lyn WAS a top ten character, but it seems going viral on Twitter has hurt her a bit. She's still in that grey area of the top twenty-ish characters.
HBD bro!

OK, here's a question. If The Prince from Katamari ever got into Smash, which song do you think would be better for his reveal trailer?

Katamari on the Rocks or Katamari on the Swing?
 

Gorgonzales

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HBD bro!

OK, here's a question. If The Prince from Katamari ever got into Smash, which song do you think would be better for his reveal trailer?

Katamari on the Rocks or Katamari on the Swing?
I've actually been playing We Love Katamari + Royal Reverie recently and mentally putting together a Prince Smash moveset, talk about timing!

Regarding your question, while I like Katamari on the Swing, I think the devs would opt for Katamari on the Rocks since it's likely the more recognizable/iconic tune. It also feels more energetic to me, it has a quicker buildup and payoff that's more suitable to a Smash reveal trailer. Swing is a more laid-back tune, making me doubt they'd go for it.
 
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Among Waddle Dees

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I think Bandana Dee was simply tethered to the role of improving Modern Kirby's representation specifically during Ultimate's Fighter's Pass cycle. Especially since it would've guaranteed a Modern Kirby stage, music, and additional Spirits if a game like Star Allies was selected as the focal point from which the content would mainly be extracted from. Ultimately this thoughtful concept turned fruitless (although some scraps of Star Allies content already made it into the game anyway), and it honestly wasn't hard to realize that Nintendo was clearly targeting unrepresented franchises altogether (ARMS, for 1st Parties in this case) or "last-chance" character picks like Byleth and Pythra since Xenoblade 5 and Fire Emblem 19 would be out by the next Smash game with more characters to pull from there instead.

Personally, even if Bandana Dee's chances were through the roof, I'm kinda glad that he didn't get into Ultimate. Instead, building up his status within the Kirby franchise has only granted him more potential and relevancy than ever before in the Kirby franchise, and Forgotten Land managed to basically establish him as Kirby's P2, signifying everything that led him to that point. Feels like that would fair better for a Smash entry that leans more towards Smash 4's method of including fighters, which could just be what Smash 6 is aiming for.
You seem to be indicating that Bandana Dee alone would be enough of an inclusion for Smash to work with, which was precisely what I'm cautious about. He could have potential, but his inclusion also may not work as well as people intend.

Also, Forgotten Land as an establishing point? That game didn't exactly use its retained cast of characters all that well.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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Also, Forgotten Land as an establishing point? That game didn't exactly use its retained cast of characters all that well.
I'm curious what this means because the "retained cast" is literally like four characters if we don't count Bonkers and Gigant Edge. Unless retained cast in this context means the larger Kirby cast being utilized which I mean... They can't just get pulled into the vortex and give Kirby an army of like 20 friends, so...
 

Among Waddle Dees

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I'm curious what this means because the "retained cast" is literally like four characters if we don't count Bonkers and Gigant Edge. Unless retained cast in this context means the larger Kirby cast being utilized which I mean... They can't just get pulled into the vortex and give Kirby an army of like 20 friends, so...
That's not fair to suggest I want all of Kirby's cast retained, but I won't deny that I think resorting back to the original Return to Dream Land cast for its breakout title was pretty disappointing. Bandana Dee's role in that game, while better than usual, doesn't have much in the way of comparison.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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That's not fair to suggest I want all of Kirby's cast retained, but I won't deny that I think resorting back to the original Return to Dream Land cast for its breakout title was pretty disappointing. Bandana Dee's role in that game, while better than usual, doesn't have much in the way of comparison.
I mean considering they ended up in another dimension, I feel like using just the main quartet, a couple of midbosses, and Morpho Knight was perfectly reasonable here. Some of the other Dream Friends fit the theme of the game, sure (Adeleine, Rick/Kine/Coo, Daroach maybe), but even if they appeared, I'm not sure that there's much they could really do?

And being Kirby's Player 2 isn't a bad spot to be for Bandana Dee, that's basically what Luigi was doing from his introduction up until Luigi's Mansion lol
 

JCKirbs

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You seem to be indicating that Bandana Dee alone would be enough of an inclusion for Smash to work with, which was precisely what I'm cautious about. He could have potential, but his inclusion also may not work as well as people intend.

Also, Forgotten Land as an establishing point? That game didn't exactly use its retained cast of characters all that well.
Honestly, he feels like the most reasonable candidate aside from focusing on a character from a specific game.

A notable symbol of the turning point to Modern Kirby, also being one of most prominent figures in the series at this point. In fact, it's rather convenient that he already had some semblance of relevance within the Kirby franchise before SSU, meaning that drawing from his character as of now would mean mostly acknowledging his Modern self, and by extension Modern Kirby because he was also in basically everything, one way or another.

As for how Forgotten Land handled the characters, I don't see much of a problem considering that modern titles such as Triple Deluxe and Robobot blatantly omitted Meta Knight (TD) and Dedede (PR) from the storyline respectively. Meanwhile, Star Allies mainly treated the two like possessed barriers to a bigger threat and then added a bunch of characters post-launch for fun and to celebrate the franchise, rather than giving them any significant roles. It's nice that Forgotten Land at least gave each of the main characters some relevance, especially Bandana Dee, rather than even omitting one or the other under the impression that they didn't really need to be there. Heck, that could've even been an excuse with the focus on a world that wasn't Dream Land.
 
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SPEN18

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So my last post led me to dig back up the interview quotes from Lyn's inclusion in FE Warriors, and there's actually some fairly significant details there.
Link: https://nintendoeverything.com/fire...dling-of-reveals-designs-story-systems-modes/

"Tthe first Fire Emblem to be released overseas was GBA’s Blazing Blade, in which Lyn was one of the protagonists. So Lyn is to foreigners as Marth is to the Japanese"
- A lot of fans already designate Lyn as the "Western Marth," but interesting to hear it in a public statement (albeit from the KT devs). And good to know they're clearly aware of Lyn's status in the West in particular. Can't recall if this was ever acknowledged by devs anywhere else.

"While we were in a meeting deciding characters with Nintendo and Intelligent Systems, there were talks of 'Please put in Lyn”'
- It's not clear to me from this which party or parties were actually requesting Lyn for the game, and I'm not sure how precise this translation is, though the wording here does kinda sound like someone at Nintendo or IS pushed for Lyn in the game; if true, that would be a huge deal. But even if it were hypothetically a KT rep in the meeting, this still lends further credence to the idea that Nintendo/IS would be okay with it if, say hypothetically, Sakurai suggested Lyn for Smash Bros.
- If anyone could give me more info on the proper interpretation here, that would be appreciated.

After the above, they mention how data for the Smash Assist Trophy was part of the material sent by IS for designing Lyn for Warriors. Neat.

Lastly, and again very Smash-relevant, is the mention of how they had Lyn dual-wield for some moves, inspired by her Awakening artwork and the fact that she has two personal weapons in Blazing Blade. They say this was done at least in part to help differentiate her from the myriad other sword users in the game. If Lyn were to make Smash, it would be up to Sakurai whether or not to use a similar concept, but it's yet another option for making her stand out more, in addition to other more talked-over attributes like the potential pseudo-warping, Astra-inspired flurries, bow moves, or just general katana-type style. I hadn't put so much thought into this one honestly, but I'd be down for it in tasteful quantities as part of her potential moveset.
 

Pupp135

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Well... Considering we're just got 300 votes!!! And it's my birthday!!!


I'll share the top few Fire Emblem results.

It goes Lyn, big drop off, Black Knight, big drop off, Tiki, Edelgard, Anna, Alear, and Hector.

Armors have taken over.

Lyn WAS a top ten character, but it seems going viral on Twitter has hurt her a bit. She's still in that grey area of the top twenty-ish characters.
Happy birthday!

The top 6 Fire Emblem characters seems like what I’d expect. It’s cool to see Hector in the top 10 also. If I added one more Fire Emblem character, I’d pick Celica or Veyle as Celica is my favorite protagonist, and if we’re picking from Engage, I think that I enjoy Veyle more as a fighter than Alear, and she’s relevant to the plot.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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But what I'm confused about is Octoling, the most boring choice for Splatoon has nearly twice as many voices as Marina, who is second on the Splatoon poll. It's absurd how well they are doing.

The "boring choices" aren't actually that unpopular, barring perhaps Alear.
For me, the "boring choices" just feel like they should exist. I suppose that's why they're boring; "Of course they're in. They make too much sense."

Also happy birthday Green Eye Magoo!


I, too, would like the green-haired Fire Emblem lady that's currently an Assist Trophy in Smash Bros... the one that doesn't use a sword.

View attachment 393455
I'd personally want child Tiki because I love the idea of a little girl who has absolutely no idea what she's doing running around flailing her arms and smacking people with rocks, then turning into a giant dragon and absolutely wrecking any fighters that are still standing.

I really like this art of adult Tiki though...Although in this case it's more of a young adult Tiki.

That doesn't surprise me tbh, Alear's design is pretty polarizing. I like them but I also know people who really dislike them.

I still think they're the most likely since they're the new protag and IntSys usually goes for those, but yeah.
Yeah most of what I see about Alear is that they hate the Pepsi hair. I do like their personality though. Their cautiousness as a subversion of the usually headstrong hero is pretty funny, even if it's just lamp shading the fact that the trope is mostly heroes making stupid decisions in the name of bravery. lol
 

Diddy Kong

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Well... Considering we're just got 300 votes!!! And it's my birthday!!!


I'll share the top few Fire Emblem results.

It goes Lyn, big drop off, Black Knight, big drop off, Tiki, Edelgard, Anna, Alear, and Hector.

Armors have taken over.

Lyn WAS a top ten character, but it seems going viral on Twitter has hurt her a bit. She's still in that grey area of the top twenty-ish characters.
Happy birthday brother! Hope you have a good one.

So we want heavyweight Fire Emblem fighters huh? Maybe this can take the load off Ike? Being the forced heavyweight swordfighter since Brawl, despite not being exactly like that in source material (later on he kinda did cause he had to have some type of weakness so it's sort of making sense now).

Cause I think Ike would benefit a lot from not being forced into the heavyweight archetype, and needs to be a whole lot faster to be functional. That and a projectile. Still pissed that Cloud got one but Ike was denied it in order to balance him, but Cloud does everything Ike does better. Hence I think a speed boost and projectile for Ike is mandatory. Why? Source material and Cloud.

Black Knight would be awesome yeah. But he cannot be an Echo Fighter like people suggest. Semi clone maybe. But we'd need remakes before this happens. He doesn't have Lyn type of popularity after all.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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So we want heavyweight Fire Emblem fighters huh? Maybe this can take the load off Ike? Being the forced heavyweight swordfighter since Brawl, despite not being exactly like that in source material (later on he kinda did cause he had to have some type of weakness so it's sort of making sense now).

Cause I think Ike would benefit a lot from not being forced into the heavyweight archetype, and needs to be a whole lot faster to be functional. That and a projectile. Still pissed that Cloud got one but Ike was denied it in order to balance him, but Cloud does everything Ike does better. Hence I think a speed boost and projectile for Ike is mandatory. Why? Source material and Cloud.
I mean to be fair, Ike can still be a heavyweight and be made faster. Just look at Bowser, he's like number 22 overall for run speed while Ike sits at number 75 lol
 

Diddy Kong

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I mean to be fair, Ike can still be a heavyweight and be made faster. Just look at Bowser, he's like number 22 overall for run speed while Ike sits at number 75 lol
Well , yeah, he doesn't need to exceed Marth or anything. But he needs better frame data so he can zone better. A projectile also helps.

I am not too confident in the chances of Cloud honestly. And if Cloud leaves I hope Ike can inherit some of his gameplay design. Cause it's a very good functional move set.
 
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Borskaboska

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So as someone who only played the first bit of awakening, I think Tiki is neat but does she actually have moveset potential? Like can she actually attack in her human form? Can she partially transform like corrin? I know she partially transforms in warriors but idk if they are taking any sort of creative liberties.
Usually for fe characters a lot of their moves are based on their crit animations, but it is shockingly hard for me to find those for tiki. (Seriously why is there not just an animation compilation on youtube somewhere???)

Personally I want Sigurd because I think itd be funny to have a character that fights exclusively on horseback.
 
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Scrimblo Bimblo

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While always having a very different playstyle compared to what I was expecting, Ike was really funny in Brawl but I kinda don't like him at all in Ultimate. He just feels so shallow.
PoR is the only Fire Emblem I've played, so the Black Knight is a character I'd like a lot on paper, but... Sorta like Ike but even stronger and even slower is something totally unappealing to me at the moment.

Still, I gave him a vote in the poll 🙏
 

Gengar84

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Well... Considering we're just got 300 votes!!! And it's my birthday!!!


I'll share the top few Fire Emblem results.

It goes Lyn, big drop off, Black Knight, big drop off, Tiki, Edelgard, Anna, Alear, and Hector.

Armors have taken over.

Lyn WAS a top ten character, but it seems going viral on Twitter has hurt her a bit. She's still in that grey area of the top twenty-ish characters.
Happy birthday!

From that list, I’d be most excited for the Black Knight. PoR was my first Fire Emblem game and he was a really cool character. With as many characters as it has, it’s weird that Fire Emblem still doesn’t have a playable villain yet. He also has an awesome design that would really set him apart from the other FE characters visually.

I’m curious how Tharja is doing. She’s another one of my favorite Fire Emblem characters but I don’t imagine she’s all that high on the request list due to her status as a supporting character.
 

Scrimblo Bimblo

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Personally I want Sigurd because I think itd be funny to have a character that fights exclusively on horseback.
Yeah I've been wanting something like this since forever.
Still can't figure out how stuff like hanging from a ledge or using up B would work, but It would incredibly unique, easily the thing I want most out of Fire Emblem in the future of Smash.
 
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Gengar84

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If we get an animal rider character I’d love to either see Nia and Dromarch from Xenoblade 2 or the protagonist and Rathalos from Monster Hunter Stories. A Fire Emblem mounted unit would be awesome too but it might be harder to animate a horse doing so many Smash animations. It would be really cool if they could make it work though.
 

Scrimblo Bimblo

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Yeah the biggest problem with a horse is that it has to be mostly realistic.
They could go with a pegasus and alleviate most of the problems, but regular horses are way more badass. Plus there's no main character in FE who rides a pegasus iirc.
 

Gengar84

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Yeah the biggest problem with a horse is that it has to be mostly realistic.
They could go with a pegasus and alleviate most of the problems, but regular horses are way more badass. Plus there's no main character in FE who rides a pegasus iirc.
The most prominent pegasus riders I can think of are Elincia and Caeda. I’d gladly take either of them in Smash. I’m only familiar with Caeda thanks to Fire Emblem Warriors but she was one of my favorite characters in that game.
 
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Perkilator

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I'm kind of partial to Jotari's Sigurd concept myself.
Alright. Here's my Sigurd fighter concept as a pure horse character. He's very esoteric in how he functions compared to most Smash characters. He's on his horse. All the time. He gets knocked down, the horse gets knocked down. There is no dismount, there is no Abandon Ship, there's no jumping off Yoshi, Sigurd and the horse are one. This means he's a very large character and a very easy target. It also means he has a number of distinct idiosyncrasies.

*No middair jump. This is going to be the strangest and hardest to adapt to aspect of Sigurd. He simply has no midaiar jump at all. This sounds fatal to a character, but he has a number of tricks up his sleeve that gets around it.

*Huge initial jump. Horses are able to jump very high so Sigurd's inital jump is like Yoshi's midair jump, though only in jump size, Sigurd has significantly less mid air control over it. Once you choose a direction for his jump that's where he's going, making it a bit like Super Dedede jump. He also has invincibility frames at the start of the jump and deals light damage during the jump. So, yeah, his regular jump is basically an attack that is akin to an up special.

*Immune to grabs. Enemies straight up can't grab Sigurd, because he's on a horse and it'd be silly to grab a whole horse and jab at it. If an enemy tries to grab Sigurd, both will be break away as if two characters grabbed each other. Sigurd himself also lacks grabs and throws entirely, meaning he has a lot of trouble against characters who can shield. He can still be grabbed by characters with a grab on their special move like Ridley or Ganondorf, since it'd be a bit too powerful to wall out those attacks and it's usually larger characters with Special Move Grabs that would look okay interacting with him. Some of them would have unique alternate animations to compensate for Sigurd's unique situation.

*No ledge cling animation. Sigurd cannot cling onto the ledge, because he has a whole freaking horse and it would be ridiculous. Instead, if Sigurd comes in contact with a ledge, his horse will automatically do a ledge attack where it scrambles back up onto the stage. This ledge attack is quite strong and grants generous invincibility frames, but given it's automatic and Sigurd has no work arounds if trying to get near a ledge, it's also very predictable for enemies to exploit.

*Turning animation. Sigurd needs a few frames to turn around and direct his horse to go in a different direction. This is a net weakness for him that is designed to curb his immense speed and power. It means when you make a decision with Sigurd, you really have to commit to it. He can still roll left and right (though it's less a role and more like the horse hops back or forward) to gain distance without turning, but if you want to make him face another direction, you need to accept a few frames of vulnerability.

*Running animation deals damage. See horse.

Now onto his attacks.

Normal Attacks

Sigurd uses a lance for all his attacks outside his final smash. There are two reasons for this. 1. Fire Emblem and Smash's bias in favour of sword users leading to a reverse bias against them. 2. While cavalry swords to exist, a lance just works better for reach, and Sigurd is already going to be pushing it in how natural his animations look in a Smash context.

*Jab: Sigurd thrusts forward with his lance from a stationary position. Can be used multiple times in succession.

*Forward Tilt: Sigurd slashes left and right (relative to him, so only forward in Smash terms) like Oscar briefly does in the rescue Lucia cutscene of Radiant Dawn. This forward tilt is special as it does not actually interrupt Sigurd's regular walking speed. And while it does have cooldown lag in which Sigurd can't attack, Sigurd can still move and turn around (and possibly jump, not sure). In other words, Sigurd can attack while walking.

*Up Tilt: Sigurd slashes his lance in a wide overhead arc, protecting him from foes attacking from above

*Down Tilt: Sigurd slashes horizontally with his lance. Sigurd's horse has a very small crouching animation, leading to this attack being more like a traditional side tilt.

*Dash: Sigurd ushers his horse on, increasing its running speed and dealing damage. Has similar properties to his forward tilt in that it does not interrupt his running speed. If the stage is long enough, you could even do it multiple times in succession, though like his forward tilt the cooldown lag for the attack is still there, Sigurd can just continue to move during it.

*Side Smash: Sigurd throws his lance like a javelin, it can be directed up and down to alter its distance. Has more power directly after Sigurd throws it.

*Up Smash: Sigurd stabs directly upwards with his lance for a powerful, but quite precise strike.

*Down Smash: Sigurd's horse rears up and stomps on the opponent. Unlike most down smashes, it only hits in front of him.

Special Attacks

Neutral Special: Luna

Sigurd's way of dealing with shielding enemies. It's a bit cheating using Luna, since it exists in his game and he doesn't have access to it, but Luna has come to be associate with cavalry classes in some Fire Emblem games and Sigurd's role here is to also represent Fire Emblem's Paladins. In manifests here not as an attack, but as an aura surrounding Sigurd that allows him to deal significantly increased shield damage to punish enemies who overshield against him. The effect lasts for twenty seconds and has a ten second cool down between uses.

Side Special: Override

Sigurd is surrounded in energy and rushes forward like his animation in Engage. In practice this works very like Fox and Falco's side special. It is vital for him getting back on the stage due to his lack of a middair jump. The range of the attack alters based on whether or not it hits something. If used without making contact with anything, it travels as far as Fox Illusion, however, if it hits something, be it an enemy, a stage element or even a shield, it will travel twice as far, and the second object or character it hits will receive more damage than the first (this also increases the more things he hits).

Up Special: Return Ring

Sigurd's ace in the hole for recovering without a middair jump. Use the special once and Sigurd will raise his free hand causing a flag to magically appear where he is standing. Use the special a second time and Sigurd will warp from wherever he is directly to that spot. This means Sigurd has, effectively, an infinite recovery. No matter how far off the stage he is, even without a middair jump, he can return to safety if you've set it up in advance. However, much like a lot of Sigurd's attacks, it's something you need to commit to and for the opponent it can be very predictable. During battle this kind of means Sigurd has a home "castle" in which he needs to defend making it reflect Genealogy's gameplay in a nice way.

Down Special: Crusader's Ward

Sigurd's way of dealing with projectiles. Most characters with a projectile defense reflect or absorb them in some way, Sigurd outright negates them. When this attack is used, Sigurd strikes a pose and gets a holy aura. For a brief window of time projectiles simply disappear without hurting him. The effect lasts for about twenty seconds with a cool down in which it can't be used for about ten seconds. So he's not immune to projectiles entirely and you can still snipe him with them, but if he's vigilant he will reapply his barrier regularly. However, it can't be used at the same time as Luna. Using one cancels out the other. The cooldown is also still in effect, so if you use Crusader's Ward, immediately then use Luna, you still won't be able to use Crusader's Ward for another ten seconds.

Final Smash: Tyrfing Miracle

Sigurd slashes in front of him. He and his enemies are brought to a field in Jugdral where Sigurd quickly embraces his dying father who gifts him Tyrfing. Sigurd then raises the holy sword and swipes at his foes in a large, dramatic swipe, dealing decent damage. However, this Final Smash has a unique second aspect to it. Not only does it deal high damage, but, if successfully used, it will give Sigurd the Miracle Status on his portrait. This status lasts for about thirty seconds. If Sigurd happens to be KO'd in this period, he will not lose a stock (or if it's in Smash fest, he will not lose a point and the enemy will not gain a point), he will then re-spawn with 999% damage already accumulated, meaning he can be killed again rather quickly. But saving him from death, even briefly can be a big decider of a match.



Another thing I considered for him is the Life Ring, since that's what he passes down to Seliph in their unique event, so it has direct importance to Genealogy and being able to recover HP in some fashion would help him protect against his weakness, but it feels like the four specials he has and the niches they bring him (dealing with shields, horizontal recovery, infinite recovery and protection from projectiles) were more necessary. So consider Life Ring potential for an alternate custom special, as that's something I wish dearly to become a thing again.


So, all in all, Sigurd is a character of huge extremes. He has extreme power and extreme speed (horses run fast after all), but needs to commit to things and his lack of middair jump means he's stuck to ground combat (I didn't even go over his middair attacks, and maybe he doesn't have any, though I like the idea of him chasing an enemy off the stage and using Return Ring to get to safety after securing a KO, so he'd have middair attacks of some from, I just don't have any specific ideas as to what). He's a bit like Little Mac, craving out the same niche of a grounded rush down character, only with a lot more oddity to him. I think among high level play he'd be considered pretty low tier for his predictability, but for the average player he'd be a huge noob killer and a blast to play as.
I mean I doubt the Smash team would implement all of the concepts presented here but I like the idea.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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So as someone who only played the first bit of awakening, I think Tiki is neat but does she actually have moveset potential? Like can she actually attack in her human form? Can she partially transform like corrin? I know she partially transforms in warriors but idk if they are taking any sort of creative liberties.
Usually for fe characters a lot of their moves are based on their crit animations, but it is shockingly hard for me to find those for tiki. (Seriously why is there not just an animation compilation on youtube somewhere???)

Personally I want Sigurd because I think itd be funny to have a character that fights exclusively on horseback.
This is never used by playable Manaketes, but there is official artwork of the generic enemy version in human form, but with wings, which may be where the inspiration came from in the first place. Even then I'd rather they lean on something that Corrin doesn't already do. For Tiki, I'd go with the Fire Emblem Warriors approach and have her flail around, trying to smack people with her dragon stone, and have a meter based dragon form that she can transform into. Just so that she's not two whole characters, I'd give the dragon form a limited moveset in exchange for allowing it to be massive, and have very strong attacks. So kind of a Joker style "weak normal form, but strong buffed form" kinda deal.
 

Gengar84

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I think some of the Laguz from Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn could make for really cool Smash fighters. My favorite is Naesala but others like Tibarn, Volug, and Nailah would be awesome too. Too bad none of them really have a great chance. Naesala is actually my favorite character overall from Ike’s games.
 

Sucumbio

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Well... Considering we're just got 300 votes!!! And it's my birthday!!!


I'll share the top few Fire Emblem results.

It goes Lyn, big drop off, Black Knight, big drop off, Tiki, Edelgard, Anna, Alear, and Hector.

Armors have taken over.

Lyn WAS a top ten character, but it seems going viral on Twitter has hurt her a bit. She's still in that grey area of the top twenty-ish characters.
Happy Birthday Swamp!

Lyn being the most wanted is awesome!
 

Opossum

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This is never used by playable Manaketes, but there is official artwork of the generic enemy version in human form, but with wings, which may be where the inspiration came from in the first place.
It is used by playable Manaketes though. Tiki in Mystery of the Emblem, Bantu in Mystery and Shadow Dragon, and Myrrh in The Sacred Stones all have sprites that depict their winged humanoid forms.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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It is used by playable Manaketes though. Tiki in Mystery of the Emblem, Bantu in Mystery and Shadow Dragon, and Myrrh in The Sacred Stones all have sprites that depict their winged humanoid forms.
I couldn't find that art in my quick search (though I vaguely remembered one of the GBA manaketes having spritework depicting it), but that just means it's even less of a stretch.

Thinking about it more, I do think the wings would help flesh out a moveset for any base form manakete, so I think it would be a good feature for that reason, but I still stand by not wanting them to go the same route as Corrin.
 

Borskaboska

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I couldn't find that art in my quick search (though I vaguely remembered one of the GBA manaketes having spritework depicting it), but that just means it's even less of a stretch.

Thinking about it more, I do think the wings would help flesh out a moveset for any base form manakete, so I think it would be a good feature for that reason, but I still stand by not wanting them to go the same route as Corrin.
In warriors she has a move where in human form she flaps her wings to make a gust of wind to blow away enemies, so now im imagining an fsmash thats just an on demand gust bellows.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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I couldn't find that art in my quick search (though I vaguely remembered one of the GBA manaketes having spritework depicting it), but that just means it's even less of a stretch.

Thinking about it more, I do think the wings would help flesh out a moveset for any base form manakete, so I think it would be a good feature for that reason, but I still stand by not wanting them to go the same route as Corrin.
Yeah Myrrh from Sacred Stones basically always has her wings out, and some other Manaketes have had them out before like Fae's Legendary alt in FE Heroes.

I definitely do agree about not wanting the same route as Corrin. If there's any older FE character I could see getting added to the game it'd be Tiki just because she pops up so much in Fire Emblem media compared to most others. Honestly kinda surprised it took until Ultimate for her to be an Assist Trophy lol
 

BritishGuy54

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Realistically what do you think of the chances of Lara Croft next game: A playable Character, a mii costume , a spirit or just no content at all.
If the next Smash game scales down after Ultimate, her chances don’t look very good.
 

Speed Weed

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Realistically what do you think of the chances of Lara Croft next game: A playable Character, a mii costume , a spirit or just no content at all.
Lara is an interesting one: back in the days of DLC spec, I remember her being one of the quintessential "sleeper picks" thrown around - everytime she was brought up, it was with this air of how the hell aren't more people bringing her up, she's so iconic, etc etc. The problem, I feel, is that.....how do I explain this? I feel like, in spite of her icon status, the combination of space, time and audience in which she was most relevant feels so far removed from anything we've seen from Smash's third-party characters thus far, in such a way that it's hard for me to imagine her being on the team's radar with how things have gone so far. I also can't shake the feeling that, while she's obv. still very recognizable, Tomb Raider games are still being made and she still gets plenty of collabs; a lot of the push for her feels to me like it's just on the laurels of how big the series was in the 90s, and sometimes feels like it fails to recognize that it isn't the 90s anymore, and that the days in which she was one of the totemic figures of the industry are behind us. I also sense this detachment coming from a lot of her support - plenty of ppl vouching for how iconic she is, but how many of these people are actually into Tomb Raider? I guess my central thesis here is that I think there's ultimately just not a lot of audience overlap - for how iconic she is, I don't think the vast majority of the fandom would particularly care to see her compared to other Western third-parties that might resonate more, and I think a lot of the push for her is predicated entirely on her icon status and not so much on people actually caring about the series. A lot of this is just gut feelings, mind
 

Gengar84

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I think Lara Croft is definitely deserving of consideration for Smash. She was one of the most iconic gaming characters of the 90’s and has even had multiple movies. She was also one of the first major female protagonists which helps a lot too. The only real issue is that she’s a Western character and there’s a lot of competition for what I assume are limited slots. If Smash moves in a more global direction for character choices, I could easily see Lara making it in at some point.
 

fogbadge

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I can see it happening but not the most likely 3rd party character. I can see Lara being a surprise mii costume at some point
 

GoldenYuiitusin

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Lara is an interesting one: back in the days of DLC spec, I remember her being one of the quintessential "sleeper picks" thrown around - everytime she was brought up, it was with this air of how the hell aren't more people bringing her up, she's so iconic, etc etc.
God, this was so irritating.

Just seeing her get brought up all the time about how she "never gets brought up"....and no actual discussion about her other than that.

Even as a lurker, I made jokes on Discord to take a shot every time that happened.
 
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Speed Weed

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God, this was so irritating.

Just seeing her get brought up all the time about how she "never gets brought up"....and no actual discussion about her other than that.

Even as a lurker, I made jokes on Discord to take a shot every time that happened.
That's what strikes me too - there was so much talk about how underrated her chances were, but it felt like there was so little passion beyond that. It felt to me less like people cared about the series and more like they wanted to fill a checklist of iconic characters. Her significance in history is undeniable, but I just feel like there are other Western 3Ps that A. would probably be closer to the Smash team's radar, and B. would resonate more with the fandom - plenty of which we've gotten through side content already. I can't shake the feeling that they just wouldn't go for her.
 
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