Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[CannonStreak]

Uh, excuse me, we have a fourth topic too: Whether or not Ultimate Deluxe is possible

Please, for the love of all, do’t bring that back up!

…Oh wait, too late. Aw man!

 

[Guynamednelson]

Please, for the love of all, do’t bring that back up!

…Oh wait, too late. Aw man!

Ultimate Deluxe will be real, and it'll add someone from Zelda as well as Kraid as Ridley's Echo

 

[CannonStreak]

Ultimate Deluxe will be real, and it'll add someone from Zelda as well as Kraid as Ridley's Echo

Great, now you've done it! Everyone on this forum...

.....We're screwed.

 

[ninjahmos]

If Ayumi does get in somehow, I'm hoping they not only use her classic design, but also possibly give us a Smash remix of the Investigation Theme from The Missing Heir.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Please, for the love of all, do’t bring that back up!

…Oh wait, too late. Aw man!

"I have been summoned."

"The Blood Oath has been fulfilled."

 

[Opossum]

I feel bad for FE fans because there's characters that they actually want in due to their merits (Lyn, Black Knight, etc) but every game we just get whatever anime prettyboy/girl is the most relevant as the blatant shill pick.

This take honestly baffles me a bit because like, if you wanted to create a set of eight Fire Emblem characters that would appeal to the Fire Emblem fanbase the most...at least half of the current eight would be kept anyway. And the biggest reason there would be cuts to begin with would be due to the House Leaders needing to be there.

Like leaving aside all context about when and why and how the current eight in Smash were added, if you were truly going for the most broad appeal for eight Fire Emblem characters in Smash, this would probably be the line-up. And half the Smash fanbase would still be mad because 5/8 are sword lords.

 

[ninjahmos]

If Ayumi does get in somehow, I'm hoping they not only use her classic design, but also possibly give us a Smash remix of the Investigation Theme from The Missing Heir.

Oh, and maybe a Smash remix of the Investigation Theme from The Girl Who Stands Behind, as well.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Like leaving aside all context about when and why and how the current eight in Smash were added, if you were truly going for the most broad appeal for eight Fire Emblem characters in Smash, this would probably be the line-up. And half the Smash fanbase would still be mad because 5/8 are sword lords.

Somehow, I doubt "the most broad appeal for eight Fire Emblem characters" includes 4 characters from one goddamn game.

 

[Idon]

Somehow, I doubt "the most broad appeal for eight Fire Emblem characters" includes 4 characters from one goddamn game.

My brother in Christ, have you heard of a game called "Final Fantasy VII"

 

[Will]

To all my Dixie Kong simps on the boards—

What would her final smash be?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

To all my Dixie Kong simps on the boards—

What would her final smash be?

Laniv already cracked the code on that one. She summons the homies!

 

[Speed Weed]

Somehow, I doubt "the most broad appeal for eight Fire Emblem characters" includes 4 characters from one goddamn game.

I feel like I'd be more willing to trust the Fire Emblem superfan's opinion here

 

[Opossum]

Somehow, I doubt "the most broad appeal for eight Fire Emblem characters" includes 4 characters from one goddamn game.

Not a single game represented in that lineup has four characters.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

This take honestly baffles me a bit because like, if you wanted to create a set of eight Fire Emblem characters that would appeal to the Fire Emblem fanbase the most...at least half of the current eight would be kept anyway. And the biggest reason there would be cuts to begin with would be due to the House Leaders needing to be there.

Like leaving aside all context about when and why and how the current eight in Smash were added, if you were truly going for the most broad appeal for eight Fire Emblem characters in Smash, this would probably be the line-up. And half the Smash fanbase would still be mad because 5/8 are sword lords.View attachment 392991

Even still, the 8 characters we have are still pretty popular in the Fire Emblem fan base (barring Corrin).

Roy, Robin and Byleth are pretty popular characters so it's not like the Fire Emblem additions are so corporate that they aren't well liked.

Fire Emblem fans are mostly pretty satisfied with what we have. Calling them pretty boy/girl shills blatantly ignores the franchise and it's fans.

 

[Noipoi]

To all my Dixie Kong simps on the boards—

What would her final smash be?

Maybe she could bust open all the Animal Buddy crates at once and the animals trample her opponent?

Maybe she summons the Queen Banana Bird and all her babies and they trample her opponent?

Maybe she summons Kiddy and he tramples her opponent?

 

[DarthEnderX]

My brother in Christ, have you heard of a game called "Final Fantasy VII"

Lol, FE3H is no FF7.

Not a single game represented in that lineup has four characters.

Oops! I mistook Lucina for Femleth.

 

[superprincess]

Every day my suspicion that Smash fans don't actually play the game seem truer and truer lol

Anyways. Somebody mentioned Ike has drifted away from his original "burly swordsman" concept, becoming faster and weaker. This is a change I'd like to see undone. Moveset discussion pretty much always comes down to over-relying on references or gimmicks so I'd like to word this question very specifically;

What's a character you'd like to see changed purely from a gameplay perspective? For me personally I don't like how Mario has evolved into a combo-centric chip-damage dealer who struggles to kill and mostly relies on edgeguarding to net KO's. It feels ultra specific for the jack of all trades guy. Not a bad design, just not befitting of Mario.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

To all my Dixie Kong simps on the boards—

What would her final smash be?

Cinematic final smash where she dashes forward and brings any opponent she hits into a cutscene. They get teleported to a canadian lake where Dixie (along with Kiddy) rams them over on the motorboat from DKC3. There's a banana bird cameo in the background.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Every day my suspicion that Smash fans don't actually play the game seem truer and truer lol

Anyways. Somebody mentioned Ike has drifted away from his original "burly swordsman" concept, becoming faster and weaker. This is a change I'd like to see undone. Moveset discussion pretty much always comes down to over-relying on references or gimmicks so I'd like to word this question very specifically;

What's a character you'd like to see changed purely from a gameplay perspective? For me personally I don't like how Mario has evolved into a combo-centric chip-damage dealer who struggles to kill and mostly relies on edgeguarding to net KO's. It feels ultra specific for the jack of all trades guy. Not a bad design, just not befitting of Mario.

I would like Toon Link to be scrappier. He's felt kind of limp in Ultimate and I suspect sound design is part of the reason. He used to have some oomph. I'd like his attacks to pack more punch with some more KO power.

Shulk has a similar issue, but I'm willing to forgive it more due to his Monado Arts. They make things all wacky.

And honestly I don't think Ike has changed nearly as much as some people think. I think his issue is a sound design one as well. Even if he hits hard in his current state, it won't feel like it hits as hard as Brawl Ike with his BOOOMs.

I just don't like how stubby Luigi feels. I know it's intentional but it puts me off of playing him and it's no wonder people rely on his grab. It's one of his few long range moves.

 

[Ivander]

Lol, FE3H is no FF7.

Well yeah, as the best selling Fire Emblem game, it's no FF7, it's FF15.

Meanwhile FEAwakening is FF7, both being the 3rd best selling game. How many characters does FEAwakening have? 3. How many characters will FF7 have? 3 after Tifa is revealed. Both with 2 Male characters and a female character, with one of them being a white haired sword user with the blood of an ancient being that plays a part in them becoming the main antagonist and final boss.

Hmm, what's that? Sephiroth didn't come with a female version compared to Robin? What are you talking about? One of his alternates is Jenova taking his form.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Sephiroth didn't come with a female version compared to Robin?

Shirtless Sephiroth is FF's female Robin.

 

[Ivander]

Shirtless Sephiroth is FF's female Robin.

Ah, so like Cloud seeing Sephiroth shirtless, so too like how Chrom saw Female Robin shirtless.

 

[dream1ng]

This take honestly baffles me a bit because like, if you wanted to create a set of eight Fire Emblem characters that would appeal to the Fire Emblem fanbase the most...at least half of the current eight would be kept anyway. And the biggest reason there would be cuts to begin with would be due to the House Leaders needing to be there.

Like leaving aside all context about when and why and how the current eight in Smash were added, if you were truly going for the most broad appeal for eight Fire Emblem characters in Smash, this would probably be the line-up. And half the Smash fanbase would still be mad because 5/8 are sword lords.View attachment 392991

The take baffles you that it's unfortunate that we don't get the fan favorites over the character that will get in simply because they're from the newest game? I think that's a pretty reasonable take. I also think it's unfortunate a character like Lyn gets boxed out in favor of the flavor of the month.

Because I mean, half the cast being different is a pretty big change.

Also if we got that cast chronologically, or mostly chronologically but Lyn came later, the fanbase probably wouldn't be so upset about the sword characters since the most recent three, when the fanbase really started whining about it, wouldn't wield swords.

 

[Oracle Link]

Remember that old image that described Smash Bros. fans whenever Ridley was brought up before his playable appearance?

We need a Fire Emblem version. Cause the anger and rage that happens whenever Fire Emblem gets brought up feels like it has greatly surpassed whatever happened after any arguments regarding Ridley. Because more often that not, it feels like Smash fans try to force themselves or others to get angry or disgruntled whenever Fire Emblem gets brought up, even to others who don't hate or care about Fire Emblem.

It should be obvious why people are upset about FE!
There are so many beloved first party nintendo characters that people wanted for years! Yet Nintendo instead picked FE Promotional picks 3 times already!
Also FE Having more characters than zelda is definitly silly, they also feel extremly repetitive and 4 of them have the same moveset!
Granted pokemon and mario get a lot of focus too but atleast those 2 are the 2 biggest nintendo series so its waranted to an extent! (eventho pokemon picks shouldn't be picked as promotion)
So yeah i would be more confused if people WEREN'T Upset! Unlike with ridly were the too big argument was always silly!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It should be obvious why people are upset about FE!
There are so many beloved first party nintendo characters that people wanted for years! Yet Nintendo instead picked FE Promotional picks 3 times already!
Also FE Having more characters than zelda is definitly silly, they also feel extremly repetitive and 4 of them have the same moveset!
Granted pokemon and mario get a lot of focus too but atleast those 2 are the 2 biggest nintendo series so its waranted to an extent! (eventho pokemon picks shouldn't be picked as promotion)
So yeah i would be more confused if people WEREN'T Upset! Unlike with ridly were the too big argument was always silly!

You're misunderstanding what they're saying big time.

They are well aware of why people get snippy. They were just commenting on it and making a joke about it.

 

[Perkilator]

Every day my suspicion that Smash fans don't actually play the game seem truer and truer lol.

Honestly? Took the words right out of my mouth. Speculation would be a lot less monotonous if more Smash fans expanded their horizons and played more video games.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Honestly? Took the words right out of my mouth. Speculation would be a lot less monotonous if more Smash fans expanded their horizons and played more video games.

I think she means the opposite. They need to play Smash more.

superprincess seems very gameplay oriented and is saying people don't care enough about gameplay.

Frankly I agree with your assertion, Perk. People need to play other games to learn about these characters but also other fighting games and platform fighters.

 

[fogbadge]

Let's talk about Famicom Detective Club. What do you think would get Ayumi in for sure?

I'd say either a massive surge in support after emio is out or sakurai

Like leaving aside all context about when and why and how the current eight in Smash were added, if you were truly going for the most broad appeal for eight Fire Emblem characters in Smash, this would probably be the line-up. And half the Smash fanbase would still be mad because 5/8 are sword lords.View attachment 392991

but we'd have claude

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Well, I'll say it. I'm probably salty due to fighting sooooo many of them online, but I hate what they did with Wolf in Ultimate.
The Brawl Dojo presented him as a "high risk, high reward" character and then Ultimate went and made him the safest MF in the entire game.
Give him back his Brawl nair, as the current one is way too much of a get out of jail free card, make his smash attacks punishable, reduce his air speed so that he actually has a hard time recovering. That would maybe start to compensate for the "high risk" character having the dumbest projectile in the game and a frame 0 endless reflector.
In general I also feel like being an easy mode jack of all trades characters doesn't really fit Wolf as a character all that much. Though I guess that's where you end up with the concept of "Fox, but slower and stronger".

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

Well yeah, as the best selling Fire Emblem game, it's no FF7, it's FF15.

Meanwhile FEAwakening is FF7, both being the 3rd best selling game. How many characters does FEAwakening have? 3. How many characters will FF7 have? 3 after Tifa is revealed. Both with 2 Male characters and a female character, with one of them being a white haired sword user with the blood of an ancient being that plays a part in them becoming the main antagonist and final boss.

Hmm, what's that? Sephiroth didn't come with a female version compared to Robin? What are you talking about? One of his alternates is Jenova taking his form.

This is difficult to quantify, but wouldn't the most successful Final Fantasy game be XIV? That probably actually is a contendor for most prominent Japanese game to not yet have any content in Smash.

On the topic, this is obvious but Bayonetta really got her **** kicked in by the nerfs. She's not even bad now post all the patches, but it still feels like she's playing while walking in molasses, I feel like there has to be a better solution there. I don't think making stuff like her back air be able to kill at 120% would be game breaking.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

Edit: Accidental double post, please delete

 

[Laniv]

To all my Dixie Kong simps on the boards—

What would her final smash be?

Kong POW. She summons Kiddy Kong and Tiny Kong (in her DK64 design) and fist bumps with them, creating a massive shockwave that deals heavy damage and knock back (think Arceus' Gravity, but it doesn't meteor smash)

Look, she summons the homies for this one!

 

[Gengar84]

Every day my suspicion that Smash fans don't actually play the game seem truer and truer lol

Anyways. Somebody mentioned Ike has drifted away from his original "burly swordsman" concept, becoming faster and weaker. This is a change I'd like to see undone. Moveset discussion pretty much always comes down to over-relying on references or gimmicks so I'd like to word this question very specifically;

What's a character you'd like to see changed purely from a gameplay perspective? For me personally I don't like how Mario has evolved into a combo-centric chip-damage dealer who struggles to kill and mostly relies on edgeguarding to net KO's. It feels ultra specific for the jack of all trades guy. Not a bad design, just not befitting of Mario.

Not sure whether I count as someone who doesn’t play the game. I’ve actually put hundreds of hours into Ultimate but almost all of that is messing around fighting the CPU at level 7. I’ve never really been good enough to play competitively and never really took a deep dive into any specific character’s mechanics. I just enjoy playing at a very casual base level with pretty much every character. So that’s why the roster means more to me than anything too deep at a gameplay level. There’s obviously still some characters I find more fun to play than others and I’m not great at every character but I do try to play them all at some level. My true main is actually the random button lol.

The main thing that’s kept my attention over the years since Brawl is actually all the mods the community has made (including making some myself). It’s a ton of fun to be able to play any character you can possibly think of as long as they have a model and voice you can pull from or are skilled enough to make your own. I haven’t touched Smash in about 6 months because I’ve been trying to work on my backlog of other games but I’m always tempted to start it up again for a bit in between other games. Anyways, as long as the game is still fun and easy to pick up and play, I’ll keep doing that.

 

[Opossum]

The take baffles you that it's unfortunate that we don't get the fan favorites over the character that will get in simply because they're from the newest game? I think that's a pretty reasonable take. I also think it's unfortunate a character like Lyn gets boxed out in favor of the flavor of the month.

Because I mean, half the cast being different is a pretty big change.

Also if we got that cast chronologically, or mostly chronologically but Lyn came later, the fanbase probably wouldn't be so upset about the sword characters since the most recent three, when the fanbase really started whining about it, wouldn't wield swords.

No, it baffles me that people think the Fire Emblem roster would be completely different if it relied solely on popularity, and wouldn't just be filled to the brim with "anime pretty boys and girls" and main lords...when those are the exact characters that ARE the most popular.

Like, no, we're not missing out on the likes of Black Knight or the "more unique" side characters by them insisting on picking the ones they do. Those characters, despite Smash fans seeming to think so or wanting it to be the case, are over all NOT nearly as popular as main lords. The one admittedly massive misstep in this regard, in my eyes, was specifically choosing Byleth as the Three Houses rep when quite literally any of the three House Leaders would have been far more popular, while Byleth exemplifies the "master of none" part of jack-of-all-trades.

This response is such a bad faith reading of the post that it feels weirdly intentional. Nobody else had an issue understanding what I said.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Every day my suspicion that Smash fans don't actually play the game seem truer and truer lol

I don't play the game near as much anymore, but I've played it for hundreds of hours, and I do still play it for when I want a low stakes action game.

Right now though, I'm focusing on my backlog. I've got to finish Hollow Knight, Pikmin 4, Astral Chain, Super Mario RPG, and The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom.

I should also probably finish Fire Emblem: Three Houses, but it's been so long, and the fact that I screwed up Ignatz's progression has discouraged me (why are Bow Knights the only one that require swords? I didn't pick the bow guy so I could melee people. T.T).

Anyways. Somebody mentioned Ike has drifted away from his original "burly swordsman" concept, becoming faster and weaker. This is a change I'd like to see undone. Moveset discussion pretty much always comes down to over-relying on references or gimmicks so I'd like to word this question very specifically;

What's a character you'd like to see changed purely from a gameplay perspective? For me personally I don't like how Mario has evolved into a combo-centric chip-damage dealer who struggles to kill and mostly relies on edgeguarding to net KO's. It feels ultra specific for the jack of all trades guy. Not a bad design, just not befitting of Mario.

I often have ideas for how characters could be different, though they tend to stay in a very workshoppey state since I'll think about it, then change my mind, and then change it back and so on.

One more concrete example I think would be a move on Mario (probably a down special) that is his Ground Pound (original, I know), but instead of being a dummy slow, powerful move like Bowser Bomb, it's a fairly combo starter. And you can do a Ground Pound Jump at the end, making it act similarly to Greninja's Down Aerial.

As far as making Mario more of a jack of all trades, I feel like he kind of needs a disjoint on some of his moves to do that, and I've thought about including his hammer for that purpose, but I think the main problem there is that one of his hammer moves would probably have to be forward aerial, which you'd have to handle with care if you're gonna change it. You'd want it to be a spacing move, but a disjointed spacing move that spike would be broken. If you were to go that route it'd require a hard compromise.

 

[RykZyk]

I feel bad for FE fans because there's characters that they actually want in due to their merits (Lyn, Black Knight, etc) but every game we just get whatever anime prettyboy/girl is the most relevant as the blatant shill pick.

That IS the thing i don't like about Fire Emblem representation. They just put the most recent avatar protagonist just to blatantly advertise the new game, unlike other franchises whose characters are chosen because they're the faces of their respective franchise and they're fan-favorites. A good example would be Isabelle. Yes, she was possibly included to promote New Horizons, which was revealed just after her trailer, but to be fair, Isabelle has become the entire face of Animal Crossing, even more than the Villagers themselves.

 

[Will]

I LOVE MAKING MISINFORMED COMMENTS ABOUT FIRE EMBLEM DESPITE NOT PLAYING ENOUGH FIRE EMBLEM TO DEBATE WITH THOSE WHO HAVE WHAT FIRE EMBLEM FANS REALLY WANT IN THE GAME!​

Kong POW. She summons Kiddy Kong and Tiny Kong (in her DK64 design) and fist bumps with them, creating a massive shockwave that deals heavy damage and knock back (think Arceus' Gravity, but it doesn't meteor smash)

Look, she summons the homies for this one!

So, like Arceus’ Gravity, which is 100% unavoidable while he’s out? All you had to do against Arceus was not jump but here you’re just having Dixie Kong **** everyone over.

Cinematic final smash where she dashes forward and brings any opponent she hits into a cutscene. They get teleported to a canadian lake where Dixie (along with Kiddy) rams them over on the motorboat from DKC3. There's a banana bird cameo in the background.

I like this.

Maybe she could bust open all the Animal Buddy crates at once and the animals trample her opponent?

Maybe she summons the Queen Banana Bird and all her babies and they trample her opponent?

Maybe she summons Kiddy and he tramples her opponent?

I like the first one the best.

 

[RykZyk]

If Ayumi does get in somehow, I'm hoping they not only use her classic design, but also possibly give us a Smash remix of the Investigation Theme from The Missing Heir.

Ayumi would be really cool, though. I really like when Sakurai puts characters that he considered in a previous game but were discarded for a reason or another.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

That IS the thing i don't like about Fire Emblem representation. They just put the most recent avatar protagonist just to blatantly advertise the new game, unlike other franchises whose characters are chosen because they're the faces of their respective franchise and they're fan-favorites. A good example would be Isabelle. Yes, she was possibly included to promote New Horizons, which was revealed just after her trailer, but to be fair, Isabelle has become the entire face of Animal Crossing, even more than the Villagers themselves.

Eh? They happen to more than just Fire Emblem, it's just the most visible there because 1, the way they handle their casts causes them to be handled differently, and 2, there's 8 of them. Pokémon has 3 "New Hotness" picks and trends are expected to continue so long as the timing isn't wonky enough that they can't actually do that. Sakurai kept trying to replace Ness with Lucas because his game was going to be the more recent one. Toon Link was added because of being a more modern version of the child Link idea. Pyra/Mythra are blatant "New Hotness" picks, but they're ones that we really wanted (give or take a monkey's paw).

Technically, they are without any picks made to spice things up, but those are fairly rare, and even series with a lot of fighters are on a 50/50 split on whether or not they have them. Mario and Pokémon have them, but The Legend of Zelda doesn't really, and most other series are too small to get them, unless the series itself is the "spicy" pick. Even so, while they weren't picked for that purpose, Roy and Corrin do kind of count in hindsight.

 

[RykZyk]

By the way guys, i don't know if this topic has already been brought up, but still...

Something that concerns me is the ESRB not letting E rated games to directly mention other games with higher age classification without increasing the age rating of the game itself because it could affect Smash Bros roster. Both veterans like Snake or Bayonetta or highly requested characters like Dante or Travis. I mean, Sakurai already had conflicts with age rating organizations, especially CERO, the Japanese one. What do you think guys?