Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Gengar84]

I actually really like a lot of Fire Emblem characters. The lords are usually just a bit boring for me. I have a hard time connecting with any blank slate avatar style characters in general so I never really cared much about Corrin or Byleth.

Just going by Three Houses, some of my favorites are Shamir, Petra, Catherine, Felix, Bernadetta, Dimitri, and Edelgarde (roughly in that order). I’d have loved to see any of them in Smash but most would have felt kind of out there without Byleth. That’s what’s kind of discouraging about FE representation to me. I feel the same way about Pokemon starters.

 

[Gorgonzales]

By the way guys, i don't know if this topic has already been brought up, but still...

Something that concerns me is the ESRB not letting E rated games to directly mention other games with higher age classification without increasing the age rating of the game itself because it could affect Smash Bros roster. Both veterans like Snake or Bayonetta or highly requested characters like Dante or Travis. I mean, Sakurai already had conflicts with age rating organizations, especially CERO, the Japanese one. What do you think guys?

The ESRB naming thing is really bizarre and I hate it. When they're not allowed to state it's a crossover with No More Heroes and they settle for "Travis" in a stock font, it makes trailers kind of underwhelming. What could've possibly pushed them to make an asinine change like this? Do we have to start putting M-rated games in a separate closed-off section in game stores so a little kid's eyes don't accidentally glance at their covers? It's ridiculous.

 

[ScrubReborn]

What's a character you'd like to see changed purely from a gameplay perspective? For me personally I don't like how Mario has evolved into a combo-centric chip-damage dealer who struggles to kill and mostly relies on edgeguarding to net KO's. It feels ultra specific for the jack of all trades guy. Not a bad design, just not befitting of Mario.

I thought I was alone on this! Glad someone else agrees. The average all-rounder being this speed/combo based and sacrificing so much power is bizarre. The 64/Melee era >>>> Smash 4 onwards , balance be damned.

I feel like they revamped Mario so hard because he just wasn't working in high level play, but that's not an issue with his old archetype. They just didn't make him strong enough in Brawl. Tone down his combos and let him reliably KO under 150%. Especially give me his beefy Melee n-air, down smash, and back throw again.

If anything Mario's current speed over power design would work better for , since nowadays he's usually the faster of the two when their speed's different. So if they could speed up Luigi and tone down his power a bit without breaking him, I'd be all for it. Let Luigi be the combo man, Dr. be the slow bruiser, and Mario be medium.

 

[Diddy Kong]

This take honestly baffles me a bit because like, if you wanted to create a set of eight Fire Emblem characters that would appeal to the Fire Emblem fanbase the most...at least half of the current eight would be kept anyway. And the biggest reason there would be cuts to begin with would be due to the House Leaders needing to be there.

Like leaving aside all context about when and why and how the current eight in Smash were added, if you were truly going for the most broad appeal for eight Fire Emblem characters in Smash, this would probably be the line-up. And half the Smash fanbase would still be mad because 5/8 are sword lords.View attachment 392991

Not gonna lie, this is a pretty damn solid Fire Emblem roster that might just stand the test of time.

 

[Ivander]

There are so many beloved first party nintendo characters that people wanted for years! Yet Nintendo instead picked FE Promotional picks 3 times already!

That IS the thing i don't like about Fire Emblem representation. They just put the most recent avatar protagonist just to blatantly advertise the new game, unlike other franchises whose characters are chosen because they're the faces of their respective franchise and they're fan-favorites.

That's ignoring the fact that the 3 Avatar characters that were picked are also very popular. Yes, even Corrin, although more specifically, Female Corrin. All three of them are close in popularity to the main lords who are often the most popular. And regardless of whether it was Chrom, Lucina or Robin, a Fire Emblem Awakening rep was always going to a promotional pick.

This is difficult to quantify, but wouldn't the most successful Final Fantasy game be XIV? That probably actually is a contendor for most prominent Japanese game to not yet have any content in Smash.

FFXIV is the most successful money-wise, but most of that has to do with in-game purchases and whatnot compared to money per game sale. If you wanted an FE game that can compare to FFXIV in terms of in-game purchases, that would be Fire Emblem Heroes, cause Fire Emblem Heroes has made alot more money than any of the other Fire Emblem games.

They are well aware of why people get snippy. They were just commenting on it and making a joke about it.

Somewhat making a joke, but also somewhat serious. I'm just tired of how whenever FE gets brought up, it often devolves into angry arguments and low-key insulting and without Smash Bros news, it just repeats on and on like Groundhog Day. Though lately, I've just been tired in general from real-world events and it's like, there are more important things to be angry about and want change for than a bunch of Nintendo characters getting in a Nintendo crossover game.

And to put in my 50 cents, I'm still positive Byleth was chosen over the Three House Lords because IS didn't want to favor one House Lord over the other two. And compared to the other Fire Emblem lords, to say discussion about the Three House Lords can get heated would be an understatement.

 

[Shinuto]

The ESRB naming thing is really bizarre and I hate it. When they're not allowed to state it's a crossover with No More Heroes and they settle for "Travis" in a stock font, it makes trailers kind of underwhelming. What could've possibly pushed them to make an asinine change like this? Do we have to start putting M-rated games in a separate closed-off section in game stores so a little kid's eyes don't accidentally glance at their covers? It's ridiculous.

ESRB is controlled by out of touch losers who shouldn't have anything to do with videogames.

 

[Shinuto]

That's ignoring the fact that the 3 Avatar characters that were picked are also very popular. Yes, even Corrin, although more specifically, Female Corrin. All three of them are close in popularity to the main lords who are often the most popular. And regardless of whether it was Chrom, Lucina or Robin, a Fire Emblem Awakening rep was always going to a promotional pick.

FFXIV is the most successful money-wise, but most of that has to do with in-game purchases and whatnot compared to money per game sale. If you wanted an FE game that can compare to FFXIV in terms of in-game purchases, that would be Fire Emblem Heroes, cause Fire Emblem Heroes has made alot more money than any of the other Fire Emblem games.

Somewhat making a joke, but also somewhat serious. I'm just tired of how whenever FE gets brought up, it often devolves into angry arguments and low-key insulting and without Smash Bros news, it just repeats on and on like Groundhog Day. Though lately, I've just been tired in general from real-world events and it's like, there are more important things to be angry about and want change for than a bunch of Nintendo characters getting in a Nintendo crossover game.

And to put in my 50 cents, I'm still positive Byleth was chosen over the Three House Lords because IS didn't want to favor one House Lord over the other two. And compared to the other Fire Emblem lords, to say discussion about the Three House Lords can get heated would be an understatement.

Yeah and with their pick of Byleth they went down the road of you try pleasing everyone you end up pleasing no one

Aw crap accidental double post

 

[DKing]

ESRB is controlled by out of touch losers who shouldn't have anything to do with videogames.

I feel that the PEGI rating system is far better than the ESBR. The name of the mature game were not censor in Europe during the mii costume presentation.

 

[Louie G.]

A good example would be Isabelle. Yes, she was possibly included to promote New Horizons, which was revealed just after her trailer, but to be fair, Isabelle has become the entire face of Animal Crossing, even more than the Villagers themselves.

The latter point is 100% why she was added. The dual reveal with New Horizons was just a convenient perk to end the Direct with two bombshells, the fact that she’s such a massive character in the first place should waive any concerns about this promo aspect being much of a factor. She’s as much a promotion as any essential character from an active series.

I know you kind of came to this conclusion anyway, but it just reminded me of when more people lumped Isabelle in with this idea and it used to drive me absolutely crazy. For a good while she was so hilariously undervalued in juxtaposition with how popular and important she really is.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I actually really like a lot of Fire Emblem characters. The lords are usually just a bit boring for me. I have a hard time connecting with any blank slate avatar style characters in general so I never really cared much about Corrin or Byleth.

Just going by Three Houses, some of my favorites are Shamir, Petra, Catherine, Felix, Bernadetta, Dimitri, and Edelgarde (roughly in that order). I’d have loved to see any of them in Smash but most would have felt kind of out there without Byleth. That’s what’s kind of discouraging about FE representation to me. I feel the same way about Pokemon starters.

Gotta love all your choices for this. Imagine if we get a non-Lord type of character in Smash for a change over those that are of MC/Lord vibes


And off the point, but I never liked Bernie nor could I get into her character's ability. She's easily one of the worst characters I've used in the game and I often leave her in the Black Eagles and/or kill her off.

This take honestly baffles me a bit because like, if you wanted to create a set of eight Fire Emblem characters that would appeal to the Fire Emblem fanbase the most...at least half of the current eight would be kept anyway. And the biggest reason there would be cuts to begin with would be due to the House Leaders needing to be there.

Like leaving aside all context about when and why and how the current eight in Smash were added, if you were truly going for the most broad appeal for eight Fire Emblem characters in Smash, this would probably be the line-up. And half the Smash fanbase would still be mad because 5/8 are sword lords.View attachment 392991

I'd actually be down for that roster. Probably would've replaced Chrom with Robin but the rest of it is very solid imo

 

[Guynamednelson]

I feel that the PEGI rating system is far better than the ESBR. The name of the mature game were not censor in Europe during the mii costume presentation.

At the same time, they censored Tekken's name on the EU versions of the SSBU website, as well as every other 16/18 rated game when Kazyua was revealed.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

FFXIV is the most successful money-wise, but most of that has to do with in-game purchases and whatnot compared to money per game sale. If you wanted an FE game that can compare to FFXIV in terms of in-game purchases, that would be Fire Emblem Heroes, cause Fire Emblem Heroes has made alot more money than any of the other Fire Emblem games.

Well I don't just mean in that sense, I mean in the sense that the game has over 30 million registered players, a vaguely high but unknown percentage of which is subscribed. Obvs the game has a good demo as I'm sure is well known lol, but that's still extremely impressive and active.

 

[Masked Borb]

What would be the chances of a new Mii Fighter Class being included in a new Smash game? Methinks either a Mii Mage or a Mii Hammer Lord class would be cool.

 

[RileyXY1]

By the way guys, i don't know if this topic has already been brought up, but still...

Something that concerns me is the ESRB not letting E rated games to directly mention other games with higher age classification without increasing the age rating of the game itself because it could affect Smash Bros roster. Both veterans like Snake or Bayonetta or highly requested characters like Dante or Travis. I mean, Sakurai already had conflicts with age rating organizations, especially CERO, the Japanese one. What do you think guys?

I do have concerns that the next game's roster might be forced to go "E and E10+ only" in terms of roster choices just to prevent the devs from getting in trouble with the ESRB.

 

[RykZyk]

That's ignoring the fact that the 3 Avatar characters that were picked are also very popular. Yes, even Corrin, although more specifically, Female Corrin. All three of them are close in popularity to the main lords who are often the most popular. And regardless of whether it was Chrom, Lucina or Robin, a Fire Emblem Awakening rep was always going to a promotional pick.

I highly doubt that Corrin could be considered popular back then, since their game wasn't even released outside of Japan when Corrin was revealed for Smash, so most of the west reactions were just a bunch of confusion.

Robin is an interesting one because we could say that Chrom was more popular, in fact most people thought that Chrom would be the FE Awakening rep, but Robin was chosen because of their moveset potential. Although i won't definitely say that Robin wasn't popular, i strongly disagree when people say that Sm4sh helped FE Awakening to boost its sales, since the game came 2 years ago before Sm4sh. FE Awakening was already a big success, enough to keep the franchise alive, so i don't consider Robin to be an advertise, i consider Robin to be the result of the big success that FE Awakening got.

Byleth it's a similar case to Robin, Threehouses was a big success and also a very anticipated game when it was announced back in 2017 IIRC. Although i don't think Byleth is a bad character by any means, it's kinda weird that apparently they couldn't put Spring Man or Rex because their games were too recent, but FE 3H which was released months after Smash Ultimate had no problem whatsoever.

 

[Sucumbio]

Somebody mentioned Ike has drifted away from his original "burly swordsman" concept, becoming faster and weaker. This is a change I'd like to see undone.

Yeah I seen it and disagreed but forgot to say why so lemme do that

Ike is faster. He's not weaker. Wtf lol weak? MKLeo won a tournament with him because his up air was broken, his nair is safe, his fair is safe I mean obviously after the patches and everything the final game has him about mid (lower mid if you ask Japan) but he's still insanely powerful for a casual. Just hold B and blow up half the stage or 1 charges FS lol. FFA Ike is as fun now as he was in Brawl, I don't understand lol.

As for your actual question tho I don't think anyone needs a new design. They just need improvement on what they already have. Going back to Ike the helicopter up air I used to love it cause timing it was crucial. Now you can just spam up air whenever someone's above you. That's Ultimate though. So if anything Ike is a consequence of the design enhancements to keep the game "quick."

Ganondorf! Can stay really... he's gonna have that TotK aesthetic going I assume so maybe another new set of animations. It's like what do you change that doesn't make him too not-Ganondorf?

 

[Noipoi]

Although i don't think Byleth is a bad character by any means, it's kinda weird that apparently they couldn't put Spring Man or Rex because their games were too recent, but FE 3H which was released months after Smash Ultimate had no problem whatsoever.

Blatant franchise favoritism. Sakurai more like HACKurai.

 

[Ivander]

I highly doubt that Corrin could be considered popular back then, since their game wasn't even released outside of Japan when Corrin was revealed for Smash, so most of the west reactions were just a bunch of confusion.

Obviously, this was mostly in regards to her popularity after Fates, as she was a very consistent high-placed character in all the Choose your Legends/FEH polls that were available internationally, but Female Corrin had a following in Japan before their appearance in Smash Bros, as from an official FEFates poll by IS, Female Corrin was voted the most popular female character. Yes, she beat Camilla. Not to mention that it was the Smash team that was working with Sakurai that convinced him to put in Corrin when he was questioning it. So to say she had no popularity before Smash Bros is not true at the least, even if it was mainly in Japan.

 

[osby]

it's kinda weird that apparently they couldn't put Spring Man or Rex because their games were too recent, but FE 3H which was released months after Smash Ultimate had no problem whatsoever.

Are you talking about how Pyra/Mythra and Min Min were added in Fighters Pass Season 2 as opposed to Season 1 like Byleth?

 

[RykZyk]

Are you talking about how Pyra/Mythra and Min Min were added in Fighters Pass Season 2 as opposed to Season 1 like Byleth?

Kind of. They were added of course mainly because the main character (Rex and Spring Man) were already discarded, especially Spring Man since he was an assist trophy. But at the end yeah, i'm kind of talking about that.

 

[Shinuto]

I do have concerns that the next game's roster might be forced to go "E and E10+ only" in terms of roster choices just to prevent the devs from getting in trouble with the ESRB.

If that happens I'm going to work to get the ESRB abolished

 

[Louie G.]

I do have concerns that the next game's roster might be forced to go "E and E10+ only" in terms of roster choices just to prevent the devs from getting in trouble with the ESRB.

I’ve said it a million times but if we have to confront the idea of cutting SAMUS of all characters then Smash would almost certainly rather bump itself up to T-rating… like they already have, twice. This conversation is so tired and ridiculous at this point. M-rated characters are one thing, fair enough to be concerned about that, but T-rated is not an issue.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

I’ve said it a million times but if we have to confront the idea of cutting SAMUS of all characters then Smash would almost certainly rather bump itself up to T-rating… like they already have, twice. This conversation is so tired and ridiculous at this point. M-rated characters are one thing, fair enough to be concerned about that, but T-rated is not an issue.

The signs were always there to be fair.

 

[Ivander]

Kind of. They were added of course mainly because the main character (Rex and Spring Man) were already discarded, especially Spring Man since he was an assist trophy. But at the end yeah, i'm kind of talking about that.

Actually, Min-Min was chosen because she was requested by the maker of ARMS. Which implies that if the maker of ARMS was good with Spring Man, he would've been chosen despite being an Assist Trophy.

And they tried to get Rex in first. The reason Rex didn't happen was because they originally tried to go 1 for 1 on how Rex played in Xenoblade 2, but trying to put multiple Rexs and Pyras/Mythras on the field together was more taxing on the Switch hardware compared to multiple Ice Climbers. So they went with Pyra & Mythra and adjusted them and put Rex as part of their Final Smash and one of their taunts and victory poses.

So neither were discarded. Min-Min was simply requested over Spring Man and Rex was originally going to happen, but couldn't due to hardware limitations and so was adjusted to be part of Pyra and Mythra's kit.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I highly doubt that Corrin could be considered popular back then, since their game wasn't even released outside of Japan when Corrin was revealed for Smash, so most of the west reactions were just a bunch of confusion.

Robin is an interesting one because we could say that Chrom was more popular, in fact most people thought that Chrom would be the FE Awakening rep, but Robin was chosen because of their moveset potential. Although i won't definitely say that Robin wasn't popular, i strongly disagree when people say that Sm4sh helped FE Awakening to boost its sales, since the game came 2 years ago before Sm4sh. FE Awakening was already a big success, enough to keep the franchise alive, so i don't consider Robin to be an advertise, i consider Robin to be the result of the big success that FE Awakening got.

Byleth it's a similar case to Robin, Threehouses was a big success and also a very anticipated game when it was announced back in 2017 IIRC. Although i don't think Byleth is a bad character by any means, it's kinda weird that apparently they couldn't put Spring Man or Rex because their games were too recent, but FE 3H which was released months after Smash Ultimate had no problem whatsoever.

So once again.

All the problems stand with Corrin.

 

[Noipoi]

So once again.

All the problems stand with Corrin.

We gotta go back in time to Smash 4 and get Corrin off the roster

 

[Laniv]

I just don't like how stubby Luigi feels. I know it's intentional but it puts me off of playing him and it's no wonder people rely on his grab. It's one of his few long range moves.

As someone who has mained Luigi since 64... I utterly despise what has happened to Luigi over the course of Smash 4 and Ultimate.

I dislike how stubby he is. I dislike how slow he feels. I dislike Luigi Cyclone is no longer a recovery option, and how linear his recovery feels as a result of that. And I utterly loathe how reliant he is on his grab, and how overcentralizing it is.

So, like Arceus’ Gravity, which is 100% unavoidable while he’s out? All you had to do against Arceus was not jump but here you’re just having Dixie Kong **** everyone over.

People who have gotten caught by Triforce of Wisdom:

What would be the chances of a new Mii Fighter Class being included in a new Smash game? Methinks either a Mii Mage or a Mii Hammer Lord class would be cool.

I'm always down for hammer users, and the game could always use more spellcasters... plus it would give those Mii Swordfighter costumes based on mages a fresh look

 

[Swamp Sensei]

View attachment 392998

We gotta go back in time to Smash 4 and get Corrin off the roster

That's right.

We gotta go back in time to Smash 4 and get Corrin off the roster

 

[Perkilator]

View attachment 392998

That's right.

We gotta go back in time to Smash 4 and get Corrin off the roster

View attachment 392998

That's right.

We gotta go back in time to Smash 4 and get Azura on the roster!

For legal reasons, this is mostly a cheeky joke on my end.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Going back to Ike the helicopter up air I used to love it cause timing it was crucial.

It works kind of strangely, but I do like how it incorporates how greatswords are actually used.

 

[Laniv]

That's right.

We gotta go back in time to Smash 4 and get Corrin off the roster

And replace them with Wolf Azura Ridley K. Rool Tiki!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

And replace them with Wolf Azura Ridley K. Rool Tiki!

Honestly, it would have to be someone with a game releasing in 2015- early 2016.

So it would probably be someone like Elma.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Honestly, it would have to be someone with a game releasing in 2015- early 2016.

So it would probably be someone like Elma.

Sakurai said the point of Corrin was to have a first-party in DLC who was too new for the base game. With that in mind, I think Inkling would've been the best-received choice.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Sakurai said the point of Corrin was to have a first-party in DLC who was too new for the base game. With that in mind, I think Inkling would've been the best-received choice.

Clearly, but Inkling, being a new franchise and needing a new stage with it, would have taken a lot more work.

Inkling was probably never a serious candidate for Corrin's spot.

 

[DarthEnderX]

We gotta go back in time to Smash 4 and get Azura on the roster!

You spelled Tharja wrong.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You spelled Tharja wrong.

Bruh. Tharja couldn't even get a trophy due to her "ahem* "boingy bits."

She wasn't gonna be playable.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

You spelled Tharja wrong.

She had her trophy removed bruh

A popular character gets cancelled by Smash

Not happening. Go ahead and mod your game If you want her in

 

[fogbadge]

Inkling, being a new franchise

you sound like a esrb censor

 

[Gengar84]

She had her trophy removed bruh

A popular character gets cancelled by Smash

Not happening. Go ahead and mod your game If you want her in

Already did lol. She makes for a great Robin mod.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

you sound like a esrb censor

???

Literally what? How does that sound like an ESRB anything?

Let alone a censor?